3114: How Kraken is Shaping the UK's Crypto Future

[00:00:03] There is so much going on in the world of crypto right now with Bitcoin hovering around that $100,000 mark. By the time this episode goes live, who knows where it will be. But here in the UK, is it poised to become a global leader in crypto adoption?

[00:00:19] Well, with a rich history in fintech and financial services, the UK is indeed positioned to maybe help bridge that gap between the traditional finance and emerging world of digital assets. But in today's episode of Tech Talks Daily, I'm going to be joined by the UK General Manager at Kraken, one of the world's most trusted crypto platforms. And together, we're going to explore the potential of crypto in the UK market.

[00:00:48] And whether you are completely new to this industry, or if this is not your first rodeo, and you've seen more than a few climbs and dips since that 2017 gold rush, we're going to have something for everyone today.

[00:01:00] Because my guest is going to be sharing his insights into Kraken's role as the largest FCA registered crypto exchange in the UK, how they're supporting a growing user base and fostering adoption through so many strategic partnerships with organisations like Tottenham Hotspur and Williams Racing F1.

[00:01:19] And we'll also dive into the current crypto resurgence, thawing of crypto winter, and how institutional adoption and regulatory advancements seem to be making things a little bit different this time around.

[00:01:32] But what does all this mean for the future of crypto in the UK? And how can businesses and individuals alike prepare for what's next?

[00:01:40] Well, buckle up and hold on tight, because things are going to get quite exciting, I think.

[00:01:45] So let's explore the possibilities together as I introduce you to today's guest.

[00:01:51] So a massive warm welcome to the show.

[00:01:54] Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:01:58] Sure, thanks, Neil. I'm Bivu. I am the UK General Manager of Kraken Digital Asset Exchange.

[00:02:04] We are one of the largest global exchanges, crypto exchanges, and also in the UK, we are probably the largest registered crypto asset exchange for UK users.

[00:02:18] We've been around in the UK since 2013 and started life in 2011.

[00:02:23] We've got a good presence here, over 300 people and lots of active users.

[00:02:29] And it's a perfect time to get you on the podcast, especially with Bitcoin hitting an all-time high.

[00:02:35] I'm curious, from what you're seeing in the industry at the moment, how do you see this current resurgence into the crypto market influencing things like adoption and investment trends globally, not just here in the UK?

[00:02:48] What are you seeing here?

[00:02:50] Wow, we had a mini bull earlier this year, but nothing like this.

[00:02:54] And for those of us who've been around these cycles for a while, it's something we've seen before.

[00:03:02] But this one feels a little bit different.

[00:03:03] It feels a little bit special.

[00:03:06] Naturally, when the markets go up and when there's more interest and we get people who want to find out more.

[00:03:14] And that equates into either new people to this space, trying their hand and looking to understand a bit more about crypto and what it can do for them.

[00:03:24] But also a lot of reactivated users who are active in the last cycle and started to become active again or pick up their accounts and that sort of thing.

[00:03:36] But why it feels a bit different, I think there's a few reasons in terms of the recent products like ETFs or the big banks becoming involved or governments holding money in Bitcoin more and more and even pension funds doing the same.

[00:03:55] So there's a lot more adoption other than your standard use case or the expected use case of speculation.

[00:04:01] And that's why I think this is a good positive trend and hopefully more sustainable than the others.

[00:04:08] And I suspect for everybody listening around the world as we're deep into the holiday season, meeting with families, having conversations over dinner tables, etc.

[00:04:17] I expect there's going to be some people suddenly start saying, you know about crypto.

[00:04:23] That's the litmus test I always get when people start asking me about it that are outside of the tech industry.

[00:04:28] But here in the UK, I has been a leader in fintech and financial services for as long as I can remember.

[00:04:34] So what do you think makes it uniquely positioned to pioneer the next phase of crypto adoption and blockchain and innovation as that excitement returns to the space?

[00:04:45] Yeah, it's interesting you say about the dinner table conversation.

[00:04:48] I've had any time I've mentioned the word crypto.

[00:04:51] I mean, if I go three, four, five, six years ago, even a couple of years ago, those who weren't in this space, friends and family, you kind of get the eye roll and that sort of thing.

[00:05:02] All the interest and, you know, I don't know much about it.

[00:05:05] Tell me a bit more.

[00:05:06] I think recent surveys, both internally, but even the SEA produced some consumer research very recently, showed that almost 100% of British public is aware of what crypto is.

[00:05:18] And that's I think is around 93% up from 70% four years ago.

[00:05:24] So I don't think you get that same either the same eye roll or what is crypto.

[00:05:30] It's more about going down to the next level of detail out of the 93% over 10%.

[00:05:38] So 7 million plus adults actually own some crypto.

[00:05:42] So and so I think that is a real that is the real litmus test of this phase and and for the UK, how our adoption has been growing.

[00:05:53] You mentioned that the UK has been the leader in the fintech financial services space historically.

[00:05:58] And I fully agree with with that.

[00:06:00] I think we've got a population which is a lot more open to innovation and digital services.

[00:06:06] We've seen obviously neobanks be extremely successful.

[00:06:13] I myself was part of one of one of the neobanks early on and and have worked in fintech for a while.

[00:06:19] And they've been extremely successful.

[00:06:21] And digital adoption has been there for financial services for a while.

[00:06:25] And and I think this is another example of where that that adoption and an open mindset is is is going to is going to come to the fore.

[00:06:34] So I expect that will continue with that with that population.

[00:06:39] We always get a lot of a lot of talent.

[00:06:41] We have a lot of talent here and not just in London, but in the UK.

[00:06:44] And again, that that creates a flywheel of investment and and growth and and an understanding and that the UK is the place to be when it comes to being a digital forward first economy.

[00:07:00] And I've been doing this podcast for 10 years now.

[00:07:03] And in that time, we've seen so many big changes.

[00:07:05] We've seen crypto winter, seen those big highs in 2017.

[00:07:09] And Kraken over the years is consistently ranked as one of the leading GBP denominated trading platforms right here in the UK.

[00:07:17] And having seen so many changes, how has your platform adapted to meet the specific need of UK based investors?

[00:07:25] There's been so many big changes, so many exchanges rise and fall, et cetera.

[00:07:30] But how have you had to adapt?

[00:07:33] Well, in some case, in some ways now, not not not really at all.

[00:07:36] Well, we are principles have started from from having a platform that is user friendly, that is secure and that has a great service for for for for our consumers and for our clients.

[00:07:51] And that service is either, you know, support when you need it and globally or or education tools or products and services that they need and to meet their demands.

[00:08:03] And and obviously, we've adapted that as as as we've moved through the cycles.

[00:08:08] But even during those bear markets, the UK was one of our most consistent markets in terms of in terms of stability.

[00:08:16] People were still trading in those bear markets from the UK.

[00:08:20] And I think that's that that's representative of some of the comments I made earlier.

[00:08:25] And we still lean on and still push forward the strengths that we have in terms of that customer service, that security and and the experience as well as being, you know, as I said, the largest registered crypto asset firm in the UK, which is which is as close as we can get to regulated.

[00:08:42] And we are essentially regulated by the FCA.

[00:08:44] So that that strength really is is something that we value.

[00:08:49] And PwC estimates that blockchain technology could actually boost UK GDP by 57 billion pounds, not dollars, pounds by 2030.

[00:09:00] So what role do you see Kraken playing in helping drive that economic transformation?

[00:09:06] It's it's funny, I've been saying to the new government.

[00:09:10] Come and regulate crypto because it is essentially free growth.

[00:09:14] You have lots of investors and and and and participants who want to to to play in this space.

[00:09:21] And and I think that 57 billion isn't surprising to me.

[00:09:26] Where can Kraken play a part?

[00:09:28] We we see ourselves as as the gateway between more traditional financial services and a future that is underpinned by crypto assets,

[00:09:39] whether that's from payments or investments, savings, whatever it may be.

[00:09:44] We see a future that is underpinned by digital assets.

[00:09:47] And so as we and as we move towards that transformation, we will be the ones who help to almost bridge the gap because we are because of our history and understanding,

[00:09:57] because of the trust that we've built up and navigated in this space.

[00:10:01] We've been around for such a long time.

[00:10:03] And because of the talent that we have in house, I think we can we can really be the innovators to push that transition forward and bridge,

[00:10:11] you know, bridge the traditional finance and the digital digital asset underpinned financial services markets over the next few years.

[00:10:20] And I love how you were saying that you were telling the British government, the new government,

[00:10:25] please regulate us.

[00:10:26] It's free growth to the country and regulation does remain a critical factor in the crypto space.

[00:10:32] So from the outside, look again, I mean, what steps should the UK take to balance innovation while also safeguarding investors?

[00:10:39] And how are you at Kraken contributing to that conversation and helping shape that regulatory framework?

[00:10:47] It really is a key question there, Neil.

[00:10:49] So we need to balance innovation, but also be mindful of investors.

[00:10:53] And the reason that regulations exist is to protect consumers.

[00:10:58] But we can use that as a competitive advantage globally.

[00:11:03] I mean, we've seen the Labour government have come out and also put a roadmap forward because they recognize this potential as well.

[00:11:11] And it's not just about laying a framework or laying a framework that is done quickly.

[00:11:17] It is about laying a competitive framework, which truly looks at the risks and understands how crypto firms are different to traditional finance firms themselves.

[00:11:28] And we've generally been encouraged, even though with the previous government, but now with this new government, with the UK's approach.

[00:11:36] And it's been largely consultative and we are heavily engaged in terms of consultation, roundtable, sandboxing sessions to help the regulators, the Bank of England, the Treasury really understand the risks and the benefits to the technology.

[00:11:59] And so by understanding that we can really push on the innovative side of things and manage the risk side of things for innovators, for consumers in the right way.

[00:12:12] We've lost a little bit of time with the changing governments.

[00:12:16] We need the roadmap for next year has been laid out.

[00:12:21] But I mean, looking across the pond, I expect the US to come very, very quickly and very hard with some bills around this.

[00:12:29] And so time is running out.

[00:12:31] MICA in Europe goes live in January.

[00:12:34] So we have to start pushing forward the regulatory framework, which balances the two things I mentioned before, ASAP, in my opinion.

[00:12:44] One hundred percent.

[00:12:46] And if we were having this conversation back in 2017, I'd be asking you about your roadmap and your community.

[00:12:53] We'd be hungry to hear news of partnerships.

[00:12:55] And looking at it through today's lens, I think it shows how much the industry has matured.

[00:13:01] And Kraken has built this strong brand recognition in the UK through some pretty high profile partnerships with organisations from Tottenham Hotspur Football Club to Williams Racing F1.

[00:13:14] How do those collaborations and partnerships help bridge that gap between crypto and mainstream audiences?

[00:13:20] Because 10 years ago, we were all talking about getting those partnerships.

[00:13:23] Now you've got them.

[00:13:24] What kind of difference has it made?

[00:13:26] I think at Kraken, we've been very deliberate about our partnerships.

[00:13:31] Looking back to the previous bull market, some of our competitors, you know, there was lots of splashy Super Bowl halftime show advertisements.

[00:13:42] And we didn't buy into that.

[00:13:46] We wanted our partnerships to be true partners and not just spending lots of money for the sake of it.

[00:13:52] And I think that really resonates with UK audiences as well.

[00:13:56] Having value-driven partnerships that do more than just present a logo is super important.

[00:14:04] And you mentioned collaboration and bridging the gap.

[00:14:07] I think one of the...

[00:14:08] We've had...

[00:14:11] Obviously, we've had some good brand recognition to date and prior to the Tottenham Hotspur deal and with Williams.

[00:14:19] But this takes it a step further and allows us to engage with the UK population, in fact, the global population a little bit more and the communities around that.

[00:14:29] For example, with Williams, we've always run a few competitions, but we had a rear wing contest, which was recent.

[00:14:38] And with Tottenham, we ran a shirt exchange so you could exchange an old kit for the new one with the Kraken brand.

[00:14:45] And this is to start the conversation, really, about what Kraken is and what crypto is and why we're different to other exchanges and the values that we hold and why they're important.

[00:15:03] And before you came on the podcast today, I was doing a little research and you've got a growing UK team of over 300 with plans to further expansion.

[00:15:13] I've got to ask, I mean, what challenges and equally opportunities do you see in scaling Kraken's operations within the UK market?

[00:15:21] Is that excitement comes back and you're scaling things up?

[00:15:24] Any challenges and opportunities you see there?

[00:15:26] And the biggest opportunity, we've talked about it before, is the UK is a hub of talent.

[00:15:34] And it's always been a place where fintech thrives.

[00:15:37] So I think that's a real opportunity.

[00:15:39] And we're not just London-centric either.

[00:15:42] We are a remote-first organization globally.

[00:15:45] And so we can have Krakenites all around the UK working towards the same goal.

[00:15:53] So that is one of the biggest opportunities.

[00:15:57] Challenges-wise, I think it's just been really understanding where crypto sits and if it has the same future that we all wanted it to have.

[00:16:08] And with the recent announcements by the government, I think it's fantastic to see that it does have a future and it is recognized.

[00:16:14] And so that will encourage more investment into the UK, both from a Kraken perspective but also more broadly as that solidifies and as we start to play more of an active role in rolling out that regulatory framework.

[00:16:31] And as crypto winter is soaring, it's only a matter of time before the Wen Moon and Wen Lambo guys come back.

[00:16:39] Without giving any financial advice, looking ahead, what are your predictions for the crypto market?

[00:16:47] Not just for next year but over the next five to ten years.

[00:16:49] And how are you at Kraken preparing for the future of blockchain, the future of Web3 technologies?

[00:16:55] Anything you can share around that without revealing too much?

[00:16:58] So I think some of the messages would have been the same messages for those in crypto for a while.

[00:17:03] I think, as I said before, we seem to be getting closer and closer to that real internet adoption curve moment, if I can call it that,

[00:17:10] where crypto is starting to become a bit more recognized and even more embedded into how people interact with financial services.

[00:17:19] So we're at about 10-12% of adoption, direct adoption in the UK.

[00:17:23] I think this number will rise pretty steadily and I expect, you know, if I had to put a number on it,

[00:17:29] I'd put maybe a quarter of UK users will own some sort of crypto.

[00:17:34] So 25% and I think we'll hit that milestone.

[00:17:37] And that, at the same time, will be supported by volatility declining for some of the mature assets.

[00:17:46] I mean, it's often a broad brush that is painted for crypto that people are just in it for speculative reasons and earning money very quickly.

[00:17:57] But I think some of our research showed, or a Fidelity Investments report showed that Bitcoin was less volatile last year than a number of S&P 500 stocks, including Tesla and Meta.

[00:18:08] And so I think that maturity is going to show.

[00:18:11] I'm not saying it's not going to continue going up and to the right, but the dips and the peaks are going to be less stark.

[00:18:22] And look, the other thing is kind of somewhat related to some of the earlier comments about growth in the UK.

[00:18:27] And that I really think, you know, I think today we have maybe five universities offering courses in blockchain technology or five courses.

[00:18:37] It might not even be five universities.

[00:18:39] And that is pretty damning given the number of jobs we have in this sector, the uniqueness of the sector and the potential use case applications for it.

[00:18:51] So I think, and we are engaging with educational institutes to help change that.

[00:18:58] And so we can have talented UK candidates who look to grow the crypto economy as they finish their education.

[00:19:07] So I think that's one I'm really excited about.

[00:19:11] And listening to you today, I think it's quite clear that your drive and your passion for this space is a big part of Kraken's success.

[00:19:19] And of course, none of us are able to achieve any degree of success without a little help along the way.

[00:19:24] So I've got to ask, is there a particular person that you're grateful towards?

[00:19:29] Someone that saw something in you, invested a little time in you, or just someone that helps you get you where you are today?

[00:19:35] We can give a little shout out to them.

[00:19:38] I'm afraid I'm going to have to be quite cheesy with this one.

[00:19:40] I didn't go through my background, but before Kraken, I spent a number of years in the world of startups and either co-founding or early startups.

[00:19:49] And prior to that, a number of years in consulting, which is also quite heavy and tough at times.

[00:19:54] And so for me, the person that I would like to give a shout out to is my wife.

[00:19:59] And she's also in consulting, so working full time herself.

[00:20:05] But there's been a lot of patience and support from her to help me get to where I am today.

[00:20:10] And, you know, a lot of me doing calls on holiday and that sort of thing when I was more on the entrepreneurial side and even now, but less so, thankfully.

[00:20:21] So a lot of patience and understanding from her to help me get to this point.

[00:20:27] And, yeah, really thankful for that.

[00:20:31] Yeah, quick shout out to your wife there.

[00:20:33] Not a cheesy answer at all.

[00:20:35] I think very often from the outside looking in, people will look at anyone that's successful and say, oh, look at him.

[00:20:40] He's so lucky.

[00:20:40] Look what they're doing.

[00:20:41] I wish I could be doing something like that.

[00:20:43] But they don't see the flip side of that, the 17-hour days, the taking calls throughout vacations, etc.

[00:20:50] So I more than understand that answer.

[00:20:52] And for anyone listening just wanting to find out more about Kraken, maybe get involved, learn a little bit more about the space, join your community.

[00:21:01] It's kind of a passionate community there as well.

[00:21:03] Where would you like to point everyone listening?

[00:21:05] There's plenty of resources available about Kraken.

[00:21:07] First place is probably the website, kraken.com, where we have a number of articles which help you learn about the basics and about the more advanced things.

[00:21:17] So you can learn about what crypto is to all the types of assets that we list, to all the types of products that we offer, and even beyond.

[00:21:27] And so for those starting the journey or for those who are wanting to better educate themselves, there's loads of resources available there.

[00:21:34] We also have two different apps.

[00:21:35] Kraken, which is for the more new to this world, or our pro app, which is for more pro and experienced traders to do what they want to do.

[00:21:48] And also, obviously, I'm on social media on X and in LinkedIn, so feel free to reach out to me and be happy to try and answer any questions.

[00:22:01] Well, every day on this podcast, we try and demystify complex subjects that people are interested in, but probably afraid to ask questions.

[00:22:09] And for me personally, I just loved hearing your story, hearing what's driving Kraken's UK operation,

[00:22:15] during this period of hyper growth and also discussing the crypto landscape globally and locally, what we're seeing right now,

[00:22:22] and also this big opportunity for the UK to succeed with crypto adoption.

[00:22:26] We've been talking about adoption for so long, but it is getting there now.

[00:22:30] And we'd love to hear your future plans for Kraken in the future too.

[00:22:35] We'll stay in touch.

[00:22:36] I'd love to keep up to speed next year, see how things are evolving.

[00:22:39] But thank you for sharing your story today.

[00:22:42] No, absolute pleasure, Neil.

[00:22:43] Thanks for your time.

[00:22:43] I think with Kraken's commitment to fostering secure, user-friendly access to digital assets,

[00:22:50] alongside their active role in shaping regulatory frameworks,

[00:22:54] the future of crypto adoption in the UK looks increasingly promising.

[00:22:59] But what do you all think?

[00:23:01] Will the UK's approach to regulation and innovation set it apart as a global crypto hub?

[00:23:06] Or are there still many more challenges yet to overcome before we all get too excited?

[00:23:13] I'd love to hear your perspectives on this.

[00:23:15] So please, join the conversation.

[00:23:17] Share your thoughts as we navigate the evolving world of crypto,

[00:23:21] not just in the UK, but around the world.

[00:23:23] I know I have so many of you listening in 165 different countries.

[00:23:28] Let me know.

[00:23:29] Tech blog writer at Outlook.com.

[00:23:31] X, LinkedIn, Instagram, just at Neil C. Hughes.

[00:23:35] But enough crypto for one day.

[00:23:37] It's time for me to get out of here now.

[00:23:38] I'll return again tomorrow with a completely different topic.

[00:23:41] But thank you for listening as always.

[00:23:43] You are cordially invited to join me again tomorrow.

[00:23:47] And hopefully I will speak with you all then.

[00:23:50] Bye for now.