3512: How D2L's Rob Telfer Sees Universities Adapting to an AI First World

[00:00:04] A warm welcome back to the show here on Tech Talks Daily, where once again I'm going to welcome back today Rob Telfer from D2L. And it's been just under a year since we last caught up. And as you will hear today, the conversation feels even more timely this time around because my guest is going to bring a clear and grounded perspective on how AI is reshaping higher education.

[00:00:30] From the tension between academic rules and real world expectations to the growing need for genuine AI literacy across every discipline. And with universities under mounting pressure and students caught right in the middle of this, Rob will help cut through the noise to highlight what really needs to change and where the opportunities are still sitting.

[00:00:53] Before introducing today's guests, I just want to give a big thank you to my friends at Denodo, who are helping enterprises make sense of the data world. For example, are you overwhelmed by data chaos? Because between AI hype and lake house sprawl and siloed systems, it can feel impossible to keep up. But Denodo is helping you cut through that noise.

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[00:01:49] So if you're finally ready to make sense of the data world, visit Denodo.com today. But now it's time for me to officially introduce you to today's guest. So a massive warm welcome back to the show. It's just under 12 months since we last spoke. But can you just remind everyone listening with a little about who you are and what you do? Yes, I can. Thanks, Neil. And thanks for having me on the show again.

[00:02:17] I must admit, I do feel I feel like I'm talking to an old friend at this point. The dulcet tones seem very familiar. But for the benefit of your listeners, my name is Rob Telfer. I'm director of education for D2L's Europe, Middle East and Africa business. And if listeners are unfamiliar with D2L, we are, well, I would call us a learning innovation company.

[00:02:38] Specifically, we develop technology for teaching and learning with the intent to build better, more engaging and more inclusive online learning experiences. Our solutions include the Brightspace Learning Management Platform. And we develop interactive learning technology such as H5P, which encourages engagement, comprehension and critical thinking in learners through interactive practice.

[00:03:04] These solutions are literally used by tens of millions of people in just about every industry imaginable. So you'll find our tech in universities, colleges, schools, associations and businesses literally all over the world. And it's such important work that you're doing right now, because I think there's a lot of news around entry level roles are disappearing. And many students are studying for roles that might not even exist yet.

[00:03:30] And on top of that, universities, they're facing financial pressure, enrolment declines and increasing employer demands, too. So from your perspective here and unique vantage point, what's the biggest change that's reshaping higher education right now? Yeah, you're definitely right about challenges in higher education.

[00:03:53] Obviously, there's been a lot of doom and gloom financial reporting, particularly here in the UK with the declining international enrolments and so on. But you can probably guess what I think the biggest change in higher education is right now. Yeah, no prizes for getting. In my opinion, the biggest single change reshaping higher education just simply has to be AI. Yeah. Or, well, more specifically, generative AI.

[00:04:20] The shockwaves in higher education after OpenAI released ChatGPT in 2022 have been, well, just seismic in nature. All the traditional norms have been challenged. We've seen wide ranging impact to everything from policy to procedure. We've had concerns around plagiarism and academic integrity. The list just goes on and on and on.

[00:04:44] I think the first time I realized this was the biggest single change to affect higher education in a long time was during a teaching and learning conference I attended in, would have been early 2023. And almost every conversation I had was around AI and its potential impact on education. The excitement in some people was palpable, but there was also plenty of naysayers and other people were just really concerned for one reason or another.

[00:05:13] It's interesting to note that, you know, some institutions in the UK tried to ban ChatGPT in early 2023. Edinburgh, Manchester, Oxford, et cetera, being prime examples. But I think they've since changed their tune on that. But I can tell you I've been at a lot of conferences since then, and AI is still the biggest single point at most talking point at most teaching and learning conferences even now. And there's really a day goes by when I'm not discussing AI and its impact with someone.

[00:05:44] Yeah, it is such a big talking point. And as you said, there's a lot of doom and gloom out there. Anyone that's doom scrolled too long will often read about the negative side. But amid all of these challenges there, I mean, have you seen any fresh approaches that are showing real promise? And where does this technology fit into that picture? Because there are a lot of opportunities here as well, right? Yeah, definitely.

[00:06:08] I mean, there's loads of technological advancements using Gen AI that are producing some really amazing results. To give you examples from our perspective at D2L, we've been busy developing AI solutions that tackle everything from more efficient content creation to providing students with online support,

[00:06:29] to serving learners with what I'd call adaptive learning pathways where content and courses are tailored in real time to that individual student's learning needs. And a lot more besides. And the results are tangible. You know, for example, one of our Dutch university clients implemented our Lumi AI support agents that we developed. That's essentially a chatbot.

[00:06:54] But it leverages the university's data sources and it provides students with immediate contextualized support to their specific queries. So it could be anything from, hey, how do I submit an assignment, Mr. Chatbot? Or how do I access student financial and well-being support? Just to give a couple of examples. And the AI resolution rate for that client is around 97% for all student queries without any human intervention needed.

[00:07:22] You know, that clearly saves an incredible amount of time in managing these everyday student inquiries at what is a large university serving about 35,000 students. Another good example of impact is a client in the USA who implemented our Lumi AI solution to help them build better, more engaging content faster.

[00:07:47] And they've estimated that they can produce high quality content and online courses 25% faster when using our AI powered solutions. So, again, a massive time saving for teachers and instructional designers when they're building out online courses. Another solution that I'm really proud of is our Accessibility Plus solution, which we recently launched.

[00:08:11] And this tool checks content for accessibility issues for folks who have visual impairments and additional access needs. And the solution can automatically fix around 60% of all the issues it finds with no human intervention needed. So it doesn't just flag that there's an accessibility issue. It actually fixes them when they're found, which is just incredibly powerful. It's a game changer. And without that capability, the human burden is really massive.

[00:08:42] Other solutions which are gaining a lot of traction include our AI powered grading tool, which really helps save teacher time when grading large volumes of student submissions. And it provides students with timely feedback linked to predefined rubrics and learning outcomes. And, you know, from experience in higher education, timely and high quality feedback to student submissions is just far too often missing.

[00:09:09] And it's actually one of the biggest frustrations amongst students in higher education. Another tool that is having a real impact is our virtual tutor, which is called LumiTutor. It's rapidly being adopted now. It's just super convenient. It's always on 24 hours a day. And the tutor is always available to help students with coursework queries.

[00:09:32] So even if they're cramming for a, you know, a final exam at midnight on a Sunday, which was pretty much my modus operandi when I studied at uni. You know, the tutor, the virtual tutor, it's there to offer teaching support based on the best practices, the defined learning outcomes, the pedagogy and the study materials that are defined by the university where it's been deployed. So I could go on and on and on about the impact. But I won't.

[00:10:01] I'll stop there. There are many, many great examples. And these tools are helping solve many of the frustrations that have been entrenched in higher ed for many years now. And it's so refreshing to hear all these positive examples that we don't see these on our news feed. And outside of that, when we're talking about universities, et cetera, employability is something at the heart of everything.

[00:10:24] But what does that look like when these tools are generally built into the curriculum rather than just bolted on at the end like an afterthought? Yeah, I think it starts with consultation between government, academia, industry, you know, the relevant stakeholders to make sure that institutions are producing graduates that have the skills that are actually needed in the real world.

[00:10:48] I do think that most universities these days are integrating more pedagogical practice that is more authentic. It's more aligned to real world skill development, whether that be through implementing pedagogies like competency based learning or outcomes based education or project based learning where students are learning in groups, where they're focused on solving real world problems.

[00:11:15] You know, types of learning, you know, types of learning, which are just more inherently practical and more student led with teachers acting as facilitators and guides, which is different to years gone by when the university experience was largely predicated around lectures and essays with the sage on the stage, lecturing students in a lecture hall and then, you know, written exams thereafter.

[00:11:38] I also think it's imperative to integrate learning outcomes into course curriculums where assessment tasks are designed to measure and develop skills, you know, communication, problem solving, teamwork to offer a few examples, not just subject knowledge. And then, of course, you've got things like internships or vocational training programs and apprenticeships in this discussion.

[00:12:05] And of course, these types of offerings give students direct experience of the workplace and practical skill development. And just finally, you know, employers can and should also help shape the curriculum content and assessment to ensure relevance with what they actually need from graduates who are entering the workforce. And on every podcast, I always say that technology works best when it brings people together.

[00:12:31] So on that side of things, how do you see technology support closer partnerships between universities and employers to ensure that graduates leave with skills that businesses actually need? It's no good if they're leaving university for entry roles that no longer exist when the employers are looking for other skills. There seems to be a mismatch here. Is that improving? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it is.

[00:12:59] And I think that there are some practical ways that you can use technology to support these partnerships. You know, you can use the learning management platform, for example, to host industry or even employer specific microsites that can provide content, learning opportunities, but also access to a community of other students who are also interested in that specific employer. Or industry.

[00:13:26] And those sites and sometimes referred to communities of practice can also be used to advertise internships. They can be used to host live webinars with industry experts as well as host just a multitude of different synchronous but also asynchronous learning opportunities which have been designed to focus on graduate skill development as it pertains to a specific employer or industry.

[00:13:54] And to, you know, to state the obvious to have the most impact that the content and learning activities should be co-designed between the academic body and the industry partner to ensure that the learning outcomes are defined and measured and that micro-credentials and badges can be awarded through the platform to validate when students have achieved a competency that the employer actually cares about.

[00:14:18] Within the learning platform, you can also leverage other tools like an electronic portfolio, for example, so a student can create a collection of their work and their achievements, which demonstrates their learning progress, their skills and experiences over time. And that's a great way for students to showcase their capabilities to potential employers.

[00:14:41] But, you know, I always say this, you know, with all these things, collaboration is key as are systematic feedback loops, whether that's through surveys or learning analytics or other means. And to paraphrase Peter Drucker, you can't manage what you don't measure. I'm sure you've heard that one before. Yeah, belts and braces IT mantra there.

[00:15:02] And a recent YouGov survey also found nearly one in five students say their university has banned AI and almost half say it limits are in place, but no teaching on how to use it. So what does that gap between the rules and student behavior tellers and how should universities respond? And one of the reasons I bring this up is I had a guest recently and he was saying that I don't want an employee to come into my business and say, I didn't use AI.

[00:15:30] Look, I've done this properly and spent seven hours on this report. So I don't want someone like that. I want someone that is not afraid to work smarter and use it better, use it to work better. But again, bit of a mismatch here. But what are you seeing? Yeah, what I'm seeing, you know, in my daily work is that and what I think that. You know, what that tells us, the YouGov report is that students don't want universities to ban gen AI.

[00:15:57] I think they want universities to teach them how to use AI. And I think that student behavior tells us that they're going to use AI irrespective of university policy. I think universities need to be pragmatic. And rather than try and impose draconian measures around AI, they need to think about how best to use AI in their practice and think about what they need to do to empower students to use AI effectively and ethically.

[00:16:28] AI exists outside of academia, of course. It's out there in the world and employers are becoming more and more concerned with workforce enablement on AI tools as a key driver of productivity. Just further on that, according to research from the Higher Education Policy Institute, more than 90% of students in the UK are now using AI to help them in their studies.

[00:16:52] If universities don't want to engage with this, then I think they're missing a massive opportunity, which is to help students understand how to engage with AI in an ethical and constructive way. And AI should not be used to outsource thinking. AI should support thinking, not replace it. AI tools should help students explore ideas and synthesize data, not do the intellectual heavy lifting for them.

[00:17:18] I think that institutions that view AI as a threat rather than maximizing its potential as a tool risk falling behind those that are using it to their advantage. And that will likely show up in time in enrollment statistics, student satisfaction surveys and so forth. And I do think that in a time where there needs to be greater collaboration and interoperability between academia and industry, not less.

[00:17:47] It feels like attempts to keep AI out of education will simply widen the gap between higher education and the workplace, not diminish it. And that, to me, feels counterintuitive. So where do you think universities are getting it wrong on AI or simply need to improve on and what needs to change before it's too late, in your opinion? Any big warning signs you're seeing now or anything you think just needs to be improved?

[00:18:14] I would say focusing on the negative aspects too much, such as plagiarism concerns, as opposed to thinking about the positive impacts Gen AI can have on things like student support and success, freeing up teacher time and creating more inclusive learning environments would be one mistake. So yes, of course, there's always concerns with anything. So acknowledge the concerns, put in place measures to alleviate those concerns,

[00:18:40] but then move to utilize the technology where it can have a significant positive impact. Many of the universities and colleges that I engage with still don't have clear policy and guidelines around AI. And of those that do, much of it is still a work in progress. And well, you know, that's understandable given how quickly this technology has emerged into the mainstream. But clearly this is something universities need to get right.

[00:19:08] And policy and guidelines need to be consistently applied across university campuses with sufficient staff enablement and training so that educators can adapt and leverage this technology to best effect. And another big change, I think, is basic digital literacy is no longer enough. Everybody needs to learn more than just knowing their way around the Microsoft Office suite.

[00:19:33] So how can institutions go further, go deeper and give students that real confidence using AI across different disciplines? Yeah, I think there's various things institutions can do here. They can create courses and modules for students which explain how AI works. They can teach them how to engineer prompts, how to evaluate outputs.

[00:19:57] They can educate students on the limitations of AI and also how to use the tools ethically and critically. If we know that students are using Gen AI and will do so irrespective of university policy, then we should destigmatize its use and create a safe space which is fully transparent. And as part of the teaching and learning process, you can actually ask students to document what prompts they used,

[00:20:25] what AI outputs they changed, what they rejected and why. That way you can test their critical thinking and metacognition. There's a report I read from the UK government's AI skills for the UK workforce report. And the key message there is that AI education isn't about learning software. It's about learning to think with and about intelligent systems. Employers don't need graduates who can generate an image using AI.

[00:20:54] You know, they need people who can ask the right questions, evaluate outputs, but also adapt workflows when the tool changes, which it will, and likely rapidly because this technology is changing all the time. Such an important point there about critical thinking and learning to think with and without AI. And there's also, outside of that, from the teacher's point of view, there's a lot of debate around AI eventually replacing them, which I think is not going to happen.

[00:21:23] I think teachers play such a big role there. But how can technology instead help strengthen the human side of education, like mentoring and debate and sense of community, critical thinking, all those great things? Is there anything you see here that could really improve things? Yeah, I think if we're talking about the debate around AI replacing teachers and such,

[00:21:47] and the human side of education, I think it's important to remember that AI is a human construct. It was designed and developed by humans for the benefit of humans. And it's important that we continue to mold and shape this technology to our benefit as it becomes increasingly powerful. But I think that AI should be thought of as an ally in education, not an adversary.

[00:22:16] You know, the future isn't AI versus humans. It's AI plus human connection. AI is a powerful tool, and it can do amazing things, but it can't replicate deeply human traits like empathy, curiosity. We spoke about critical thinking. And it also has no lived experience. The intelligence it provides is simply not as complex as human intelligence.

[00:22:41] I was at a D2L connection event in London recently, which is our annual user group meeting for clients in this region. And I overheard just a brilliant quote from a colleague, Margaret Korosek. She's actually a director of digital education and learning innovation at Leeds University. And she said during her keynote, we cannot algorithm our way into meaning. We cannot outsource belonging and we cannot code courage. Very poetic.

[00:23:09] But I found that really impactful, and it really mirrors my own beliefs that the real magic happens when computational power is combined with our own humanity. And I also think that the debate around AI replacing teachers is probably vastly overstated, like yourself.

[00:23:32] I believe it was Jensen Huang, the CEO of NVIDIA, who said, you're not going to lose your job to an AI, but you might lose your job to somebody who uses AI or something like that. I'm paraphrasing. But I think that seems like a fairly shrewd observation to me. AI in its current form cannot replace human teachers, in my opinion. What it can do is free up teacher time so that they can focus on what really matters.

[00:23:59] Mentoring, pedagogy, building community and empathy. Completely agree with you there. And finally, I'm going to ask you to look into my virtual crystal ball now. We're a few weeks away from 2026. If we look beyond to 2026 and beyond, anything that you think will eventually separate the universities that thrive in an AI era and those that risk falling behind? Yeah, it's a good question.

[00:24:29] I think it's crucial to understand that the genie is out of the bottle with Gen AI. It's here now, and I think most folks would agree that it's here to stay. I do believe that universities and colleges need to act fast or, well, as fast as higher education allows to produce coherent guidelines and policy that reflects this new reality.

[00:24:52] We're clearly in a period of great disruption in education, but it's also a time of potentially unparalleled opportunity. And that's exciting. I think if we're exploring the question of which universities will thrive in the AI era, I believe that the institutions that will win the future are the ones that take advantage and invest in these new capabilities. But technology is just a tool.

[00:25:16] It has to have a purpose and it needs to be deployed intentionally and in a higher education setting. It should be most clearly guided by pedagogy. So my caveat is that the institutions that do invest will win the future as long as they relentlessly focus on what really matters. Student success, equity of access and human connection.

[00:25:37] I also think that there will be a growing divergence between the institutions that invest versus those that don't, because students and employees will gravitate quite naturally towards the institutions that they think will offer them the best chance of success in their lives. And that includes access to the best technology and the best learning opportunities. You know, we spoke about some of these incredibly impactful tools that leverage Gen AI.

[00:26:05] Earlier on, we talked about the virtual tutors, the chatbots. We talked about tools that can help teachers create high quality and accessible content in seconds, to name a few. And I think that in the next few years, people will simply expect institutions to offer these capabilities by default. Higher education is undoubtedly more competitive now than it's ever been due to globalization and other factors.

[00:26:34] And I think that the real question for any universities, any university these days is, you know, can you afford not to be a participant in Gen AI? Is it merely keeping up with the Joneses or is it more fundamentally an absolute necessity for a university's continued relevance and even survival in the years ahead? Nobody has a crystal ball, to your point. Time will tell. It always does. But whatever happens, I'm sure it won't be dull.

[00:27:03] Yeah, 100% with you. And I think that is a powerful moment to end on. But before I let you go, we covered a lot in 30 minutes today. Anyone wanting to find out more about all things D2L, commit with you or your team? Anywhere in particular you'd like to point to everyone? Yeah, definitely. You should check out d2l.com, which is our website. And if you want to connect with myself, you'll find me on LinkedIn. Well, as I said, we covered so much there from how AI is rapidly changing how we work, how we learn, how we communicate.

[00:27:33] They struggle with some universities trying to keep up there. And students are often told not to use AI assessments despite needing those tools in the workplace. So many big talking points. I'd love to throw this out to everybody listening, see what their takeaways are, especially if you work in education. But more than anything, just thank you for coming back on and starting this conversation again, Rob. Thank you. Been an absolute pleasure. Thank you, Neil.

[00:28:01] Rob, it is always a pleasure to have Rob back on the podcast. And I genuinely appreciate him for sharing such honest insight into where higher education is standing right now. And how the gap between universities and how they're approaching AI and how employers are expecting graduates to use it, be confident with it, and critically think with and without it. That gap feels wider than ever.

[00:28:29] And I think this conversation has given plenty for everybody listening to reflect on, too. So whether you work in education, hiring or navigating your own learning journey, thank you for joining me today. And I've got no doubt that this won't be the last time that we revisit this topic together. But before we go, let me know your thoughts on this. TechTalksNetwork.com, LinkedIn X, Instagram, just at Neil C. Hughes.

[00:28:53] Send your experiences across, whether you're a student, an employer or a teacher or learning institution. In fact, if I get enough responses here, I would actually love to get a student, a teacher and an employer onto one podcast. Let's hammer this out together. Let's see what we can uncover there. But that's it for today. Lots to think about, but I'll be returning again tomorrow with another guest. Thanks, as always, and speak with you then. Bye for now.