3550: Signos and the Case for Seeing Your Metabolism in Real Time

[00:00:04] - [Speaker 0]
Welcome back to the Tech Talks Daily podcast. How are you all doing? How are those New Year's resolutions doing? Are you habit stacking? Are you losing weight?

[00:00:14] - [Speaker 0]
What are your resolutions this year? Tech blog writer at outlook.com. Let me be your accountability partner, and maybe we can keep each other accountability for whatever we promise to do this year. And if you've ever wondered why some people look at a doughnut and almost gain weight while others look at it and eat three of them and gain no weight at all, I wanna dig a little bit deeper on that question today. I know it's the perfect time of year to do that because I've got the CEO and cofounder of Cygnos who's gonna be joining me on the podcast today.

[00:00:48] - [Speaker 0]
And he's bringing glucose data and AI into the hands of everyday people who want answers that actually fit their bodies, not some one size fits all approach when we're all quite unique, different with different metabolisms, etcetera. So in the last couple of weeks where everyone has been chanting new year, new me, chanting reinvention, and new gym memberships are spiking faster than blood sugar after a croissant. My guest is gonna demystify metabolism today without moral lectures or extreme diets or anything like that. We're just gonna look at the data and science behind some of these things. And as someone that's even increased his calorie intake while losing 25 pounds and tracked his wife's deep sleep, improving from twenty minutes to nearly an hour a night while juggling a newborn, If there was ever a moment for metabolic truth to take center stage, maybe the stars have aligned at the perfect time to do just that now.

[00:01:50] - [Speaker 0]
And, it will make me feel better about my post holiday food choices, too much drink, bad TV, and those two PM energy crashes. The data world is louder than ever. AI hype, lake house complexity, and pressure to deliver more with less. These are things that I talk about every day on this show. But Denodo is helping businesses make sense of it all because they provide a unified data foundation for trustworthy AI, lakehouse optimization, and data products to finally bring service to life.

[00:02:20] - [Speaker 0]
So if you're ready to unlock real outcomes, simply visit denodo.com today. But now it's time for today's interview. Let me introduce you to today's guest. Welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:02:39] - [Speaker 1]
Thanks for having me, Neil. I appreciate it. My name is Sherem Faladgir Mercer. I'm the CEO and cofounder of Cygnos, the first over the counter system for managing your weight using glucose. So what we've all heard about our metabolism, and we've never been able to really see or hear or optimize it.

[00:02:56] - [Speaker 1]
And we're really on a mission to conquer obesity using AI and glucose. Glucose is the body's primary fuel source, and everybody is is unique. And so for context, a continuous glucose monitor, which is a little wearable biosensor that we provide you, gives you a glimpse into how your body is different than everyone else's through understanding your own metabolism. And then Cygnos really takes that a step further and makes that data real time, actionable, actionable, and how showing how it impacts your behavior. And so we've all walked by a pizza or an ice cream shop and felt like we were gaining weight just by smelling it.

[00:03:31] - [Speaker 1]
And meanwhile, we have friends that go in and eat whatever they want seemingly without putting on a pound. And we all wanna be like the lucky friend. And so what we wanna do is how do we help figure this out? How do we help you optimize so you don't have to throw away everything in your fridge and start over? We try to give you a window into your metabolism that allows you to leverage that in the best possible way on your path to a healthy weight.

[00:03:54] - [Speaker 0]
Well, it's a pleasure to have you on here. It's such a timely moment to have a discussion like this. I think most people listening would have overindulged over the holiday period now looking at shedding some weight and also changing their habits, and we mentioned everyone as a lucky friend with a fast metabolism. I was that lucky friend till I hit 35, and then everything went wrong. So I know all about that too.

[00:04:16] - [Speaker 0]
And and for people hearing about Signos for the first time and hearing about the the device that you put on there, maybe people have have seen people weighing them and assuming that they were diabetic or there was a different reason for weighing them. How would you describe what you do and and the kind of problem that you're setting out to solve with this world of metabolic health. Because it really feels like we're going from this reactive approach to health care to proactive and monitoring what we're doing and improving things before it reaches a problem or a problem point. Right?

[00:04:46] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. No. You're exactly right. And that's really the goal of what we set out to accomplish. The reality is seventy five percent of Americans today are now overweight or obese, and I think that's status holding in many countries in the world.

[00:04:57] - [Speaker 1]
And so the the struggle that I think many people have on this weight management journey is twofold. It's how do I figure out how to lose my weight, and how do I figure out how to maintain my weight? And that encapsulates the entire weight management journey. What we really focus on is that whole piece, which is how do we give you a window into how your body is processing food, diet, exercise, all, you know, all of the things that you might imagine, and how that might be different than others. And what really makes yours unique, once we figure that out and calibrate it to your body, we can customize a solution for you.

[00:05:37] - [Speaker 1]
You know, my my personal story that you asked about, I was an obese overweight kid growing up, and I think this I've I've been through a similar level of struggle throughout throughout my career and throughout my life where up and down and up and down that weight journey and really understanding how and having a window into how my metabolism responded to particular things would have made that a much simpler situation, and it would have made that for me personally, one where it didn't have that yo yoing effect. And that's really what we wanna do, is set you on a healthy path to maintain a healthy weight.

[00:06:11] - [Speaker 0]
And leveraging technology to create us a real solution that makes an incredible impact and difference on people's lives is arguably the easiest part. Then getting it approved and out there, that is often the most difficult. There's been a lot of issues with the Apple Watch, what it can monitor, what it can't monitor in different health jurisdictions, etcetera. And the FDA, good news here. You they recently cleared your glucose monitoring system for weight management and a first of its kind over there.

[00:06:39] - [Speaker 0]
So could you explain what this clearance allows you to do that maybe wasn't possible before and and why it matters to everyday consumers?

[00:06:47] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. Similar to what you were alluding to before, we're taking technology called continuous glucose monitoring that used to be only available for diabetics and making the mainstream by being more accessible and affordable and focusing around how can we help help individuals on their weight journey, whether it's losing weight or maintaining the weight that they have lost. And most importantly, giving you a way to look at your metabolism for the first time to really focus on improving that health journey. I think that connection between metabolism and weight is one of the things that makes this particularly unique that many people have known has existed, but hasn't haven't really had a solution to be able to look into your own body and see what is going on in real time. And so we've been working on proving out the technology to predict your metabolism since 2018, and with three quarters of Americans, like I mentioned, overweight or obese, this is really a pressing issue.

[00:07:41] - [Speaker 1]
And so this clearance allows us to cut out the need to prescribe a CGM to bring it over the counter. Previously, that was not the case. To lower the cost that we were providing it and to get it in the hands of a wider audience. And really, for a large number of people, it's as FSA and HSA eligible as well.

[00:08:01] - [Speaker 0]
And when doing a little research on you guys, I was reading that signals give people ownership of their health. But for people listening around the world, what does this look like in practice, and how does this real time glucose feedback actually help people make better food and lifestyle choices? I've seen probably come very different, but from the outside looking in similar services here in The UK, but they seem to usher people down. Okay. We tell you what's wrong, and now come buy our food products.

[00:08:29] - [Speaker 0]
Is this very similar to what you do, or is it completely different?

[00:08:32] - [Speaker 1]
Completely different. I think to your point, most tools tell you what's already happened. Cygnos really focuses on telling you what happens next. Yeah. And I think that for us, the goal is not let's put everybody on a keto diet.

[00:08:43] - [Speaker 1]
I think that's unsustainable. It's the reason why ninety five percent of diets fail over a five year period. It's how do we figure out the carbs that are right for you? How do we figure out the food that is the right fit for you? How do we figure out the right schedule around your diet and exercise that works for your body?

[00:08:59] - [Speaker 1]
I don't want to come in and say, throw away everything in your fridge and go buy product x or y. And that's not our goal. It's not sustainable, and and we're, of course, not selling we're not selling food. And so for us, we're the only company that combines continuous glucose monitoring with a comprehensive AI driven system for the duration of your subscription to deliver the best possible results for better health and weight management. And so we really built this platform to utilize an individual's metabolic signals and create a program to help them stabilize their glucose levels within a personalized range for weight management, whether that's weight loss or maintaining that healthy weight.

[00:09:33] - [Speaker 1]
And that's really the the the key. Today, when you have a a meal that isn't optimal for you, you'll often see a big glucose spike. And what we're trying to do is help stabilize your glucose. And we do this by helping our members prevent through diet and curtail through targeted and timely physical activity these glucose spikes. And if your glucose levels remain stable by eating healthy food and by physical activity, you're less likely to store this excess glucose of sphaph.

[00:09:58] - [Speaker 1]
So we wanna let your body lead the way, if you will.

[00:10:02] - [Speaker 0]
And as this is a tech podcast, I immediately wanna have a quick look under the hood and the integration of Dexcom's biosensor sounds technical but important. You also mentioned AI. Of course, we have to do that by law in a tech podcast now. So can you break down how your AI platform works alongside the sensor and how you create these personalized insights for each users and for each user and and what that might look like if you get I don't know if you're able to share a use case without naming any names.

[00:10:32] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. And so the Stellows CGM transmits the data for glucose directly into the Cygnos app. So you have this in this case, the Stellows hardware that has a transmitter. That transmitter connects directly to Cygnos. So it's a single app solution, and then we use the the hundreds of millions of data points.

[00:10:51] - [Speaker 1]
At this point, we have billions and billions of data points to build a personalized view of your metabolism. It allows the app to tell you in real time what actions to take to stabilize the glucose to aid in preventing weight gain. So we tell you not just what your glucose is doing, but also what to do about it, whether now or in the future using these glucose predictions. And so, really, it's combining a best in class continuous glucose monitor that exists today with the technology to allow people to go a step further than just looking at your glucose, allows us to go tell what's going to happen before it does and tell you what to do. And I think that's really the the the goal here.

[00:11:30] - [Speaker 0]
And for somebody that so let's say myself, for example, let's say three stone overweight or thirty six pounds overweight or something like that, and and these are this is the cause of my problem, what happens next? Do you give a diet? Because as I said, there's many solutions out there that will say, hey. Drink this milkshake or add water to this powder that is designed just for you. What what's the next step there on identifying a problem?

[00:11:55] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. So we basically look at your your data as you put on signals, and we start to calibrate it to your body. And so we're looking at data around everything from what's coming in from glucose to food to exercise to sleep, and combine that all together, calibrate it associated with you, and then say, how can we help you on this journey to stabilize these glucose levels? And so as an example, we can show you how to have a slice of cake and potentially not gain weight from it. And we'll tell you there are things that you can do when you're consuming the food, the order that you could have the food in.

[00:12:32] - [Speaker 1]
We can tell you what to do in order to blunt the absorption of it. We can tell you what to do in order to time the exercise at the exact right moment before the glucose starts to spike and get stored in the blood stream or it gets stored across your body as fat. And so there's a whole host of things that we do on this journey to ensure that we are setting you up for success while also not removing everything that you might like. If we eliminate everything in the diet that you think tastes good and or will want, then it doesn't make it sustainable. And so if you, you know, need to have a croissant once a week or need to have a croissant more frequently, it's yes.

[00:13:10] - [Speaker 1]
We could eliminate the croissant, but a lot of people don't do well with that. But another way to do it is have arugula with balsamic vinegar in advance of that, wait ten minutes, and then consume the croissant, and you'll see that glucose spike will be significantly reduced. And that's one example of how you can use one of the many aspects of just the diet piece, not even the exercise and the sleep and everything else, but the diet piece that plays a part into how your body gains weight. So it's the order you eat your food. What's the timing of how you consume the food in the morning versus later in the day?

[00:13:39] - [Speaker 1]
How long does it take for you to consume the food? A lot of people will sit down and eat the meal over a five minute period or a ten minute period versus an hour. And so what can you take out? What can you add in? What can and so there's a whole host of things that we can start to bring to you that instead of setting them up where you need a PhD in statistics to go figure out, it's how do we help you on that journey to be as healthy as possible and give you and surface you the insights that are designed around your metabolism that will work most effectively for you.

[00:14:08] - [Speaker 0]
And before you join me today, I went online to do a quick little research and see what stats I could find, and one that stood out was eighty eight percent of Americans are considered metabolically unhealthy. And before I take the moral high ground now, I also found that eight out of ten have the same problem here in The UK. So it's very clear we're facing somewhat of a global crisis here. So what do you think traditional health and fitness programs have failed to address over the years, and and what makes it different now?

[00:14:38] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. You know, what's interesting here is that health isn't a one size fits all. Yeah. Not only are our metabolisms different, but so are our circumstances. And so I'll tell you this.

[00:14:48] - [Speaker 1]
I used to play hockey in college, we had some really great dietitians. And they'd give me a strict meal plan to follow, and I'd gain weight. Meanwhile, I'd have some of my teammates eating 5,000 calories a day and not gaining a pound, and it drove me nuts. And so just like we're seeing people joining gyms in January, some people will drop weight like crazy, getting some cardio in, and for others, might not, but also you might not have time. Maybe you have kids at home and it's difficult to get the schedules to a lot to align.

[00:15:19] - [Speaker 1]
And then you have some people that are comfortable taking GLP ones, which Cygnos is very complementary to, and others they can't or can't afford them or aren't able to take them. And so letting glucose be a guide is so powerful because this is the only way to really plug in directly your metabolism in real time, and it is complementary to your weight journey, whether it's losing the weight, like we mentioned, or maintaining the weight, like we mentioned, throughout that weight management journey. And I think that's what makes this particularly interesting. And you alluded to it at the beginning. Moving the world from a situation where it is a retrospective, let's help you now that there's a condition to how can we help you before that condition escalates.

[00:15:59] - [Speaker 1]
And that is where I think and we'll talk about the long term vision later, but that's where I think it gets to be particularly exciting for us and where we can help.

[00:16:06] - [Speaker 0]
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[00:16:56] - [Speaker 0]
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[00:17:47] - [Speaker 0]
You start having to care for parents and things too, and it's very difficult to put yourself first. So that I mean, there is a growing debate about whether health tech can actually empower people without overwhelming them when they've already got so many things going on in their lives. So I appreciate this is a massive question, but how do you make sure that Cygnos encourages sustainable habit change? Because that is the key, isn't it? Not just doing something for a couple of weeks and then reverting back to your old ways.

[00:18:15] - [Speaker 0]
It's sustainable habit change that is the key to everything.

[00:18:18] - [Speaker 1]
Exactly. And that's where I go back to the original conversation we were having around. The goal of this is not to come in and say, throw away everything in your fridge. It's not to come in and say, try you have to be on this particular diet. It's let's figure out what works for your metabolism.

[00:18:33] - [Speaker 1]
It's not a one size fits all. And so we don't prescribe, you know, goals for people in that sense. It really helps to meet the goals you've set for yourself. And we proactively don't allow target metrics that are considered unhealthy by published science. We wanna keep this healthy.

[00:18:47] - [Speaker 1]
And so I'll tell an interesting story around this, which is after we had our second child, my my wife was looking forward to getting on Cygnos. And what was interesting and unfortunate is in those times and still still today, what will happen is the doctor will say, you just need to sleep eight hours. You know, as as a young parent, you're sleeping four hours a night, and maybe a little more, maybe a little less. And so what was particularly interesting about this is going and seeing not just how my wife was able to lose the weight with Cygnos, that was obviously very exciting, But what what was particularly exciting was seeing how it affected her sleep. And so she by using Cygnos and stabilizing her glucose ended up tripling her the amount of time that she spent in deep sleep every night.

[00:19:35] - [Speaker 1]
And so it ended up making it so that she felt like she slept for seven or eight hours even though she only slept for four or five. And that's where I think the opportunity really exists to use this to drive an increase in overall health. Because if you can start to tackle the different aspects that make you healthier, all of it's interconnected and tied into your weight as well, and that's where we get really excited.

[00:20:00] - [Speaker 0]
Wow. Powerful story, especially when it's something so close to home as well. And going back to the FDA clearance, which we mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, it could open many doors for payer coverage, employer, wellness programs. It feels like there could be a lot of scope there just thinking out loud. So what kind of partnerships or integrations do you envision as metabolic health becomes mainstream and part of pre preventative care?

[00:20:29] - [Speaker 0]
Because I would imagine there's so many opportunities here. I think we're getting more and more open to this as well. But what what is there? Anything you can share around that long term vision? Yeah.

[00:20:39] - [Speaker 1]
And and as you might imagine, employers are are particularly interesting, but really there's implications for both the commercial and government markets. So envision user driven, member driven outcomes, and real time visibility to it, supporting large ASO groups and in concierge medicine on the commercial side at the state and ultimately federal government populations. We think about the size of the of the populations that are on insurance, obviously, at the state and federal level, and being supported in partnership. Really, the end game being Psygnosis is a covered preventative benefit and reimbursable. And so I think there's a lot of opportunity there that we get particularly focused on as we as we go down our our journey to be as mainstream as possible as part of preventative care.

[00:21:22] - [Speaker 0]
And I'm curious. If we look further ahead, do you see this technology expanding maybe even beyond weight management and reshape how we understand and maintain our overall health or just have a better understanding of our own bodies and why we feel very sluggish after lunch and falling asleep in a 02:00 in the afternoon meeting, and we just understand why it's not necessarily our our own fault, but it's maybe something that we ate during lunch, for example.

[00:21:47] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. I mean, what's interesting is weight is just the beginning in my opinion. There are trillions of dollars of chronic care conditions from high cholesterol and type two diabetes to cardiovascular disease on down. And, really, weight is the underpinning across all of these, and insulin resistance is a factor in so many different diseases, from heart disease to PCOS. Our vision is really tackling these in order of impact, and obesity is just the tip of the iceberg.

[00:22:13] - [Speaker 1]
And you start to see the the comorbidities associated with this when you lose the weight or when you maintain that weight loss for a long period of time. Some of the those chronic conditions we were talking about just start to revert back in order. And so the long term vision for Cygnos is how do we go systematically around that and tackle them in order of impact.

[00:22:33] - [Speaker 0]
And, of course, when discussing weight out loud and in public, it's often a very taboo subject and sensitive area for so many people. But I suspect you have picked up a few interesting stories, maybe a few funny stories along the way. Anything stand out there since starting this work that you think will resonate with people listening?

[00:22:53] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. I mean, a a personal story really. I as I mentioned, I was an obese kid growing up, and the struggle with my weight. And the most recent example is I was the first individual on Cygnos, as you might imagine, as the as the cofounder of the company. And what was particularly exciting, not that I lost 25 pounds, but what was particularly exciting is the fact that I actually increased my caloric intake while losing that weight.

[00:23:23] - [Speaker 1]
And that was the first time that I realized having a window into our metabolism to figure out what works and what doesn't gives you an opportunity to really tailor this to figure out how to optimally help on that weight management journey across both pieces of that. And that is the piece that got me excited to start the company.

[00:23:44] - [Speaker 0]
Wow. What a great story. And for anyone listening, just wanting to find out more information, dig in a little bit deeper. We've probably left them with even more questions and how this might be able to help them. Where would you like me to point everyone listening?

[00:23:57] - [Speaker 0]
And also if they wanna connect with you or your team. Any any way in particular you'd like to direct everyone?

[00:24:02] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. Our website is probably the best way to find us online, signos.com, signos.com. We're obviously big fans of of you, Neil, so we made the the promo code tech talks for 30% off your subscription. I would love folks to go check it out, and, of course, send us send us a message if you have any questions whatsoever. But the best place is right online there.

[00:24:24] - [Speaker 0]
Awesome. And, obviously, the biggest listenship of this podcast is US based, but anywhere else in the world that you're serving or aiming to serve in the future?

[00:24:34] - [Speaker 1]
We're starting to look internationally right now, and so we'll have more to share on that as we get closer to launch.

[00:24:39] - [Speaker 0]
Awesome. Sounds like a good teaser to get me back on get you back on later in the year. I'll add links to everything, including a video as well, and see if we can and for anyone listening to just bring it to life. It can be difficult on an audio podcast. But if you go over to the blog post associated with this episode, you'll be able to find out more information there.

[00:24:58] - [Speaker 0]
And I'll have links to everything in the show notes. But more than anything, congratulations on your journey here, not just from a weight loss perspective, but also in creating something that will impact so many people and using technology to do that. Thank you for sharing your story today.

[00:25:14] - [Speaker 1]
Thank you, Neil, for having me on. I appreciate it.

[00:25:16] - [Speaker 0]
Metabolic health is finally getting its spotlight, isn't it? And I think my guest today reminded us that our bodies have their own logic and their own feedback signals. If only we had the right tools to listen. And I think the opportunity ahead for Metabolic AI, employer wellness, payer coverage, broader preventative care is enormous, but some of the challenges across education, regulation, trust, affordability, and turning data into behavior change that actually last. Some listing will see wearables like a continuous glucose monitor as invasive or unnecessary for mainstream consumers and say it's it's just for the worried well.

[00:25:58] - [Speaker 0]
Where others will argue this is one of the biggest opportunities right now in consumer health tech, giving individuals the clarity that they've never had before and helping them act earlier and with more precision. And I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this. And Cygnos is still early in its international rollout. But if you're curious to see how your body handles carbs, sleep, movement, and even those tasty treats in the late hours, I think it's worth a look. So please check it out.

[00:26:28] - [Speaker 0]
And the last question I'll leave to you all today is if if glucose could talk, what would you think it would say about your last meal? No judgment. Believe me. I do love a nice juicy steak, New York cheesecake, and a pint of Guinea. So I'm not gonna be judging anyone here.

[00:26:44] - [Speaker 0]
But I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. So please, tech blog writer outlook.com, techtalksnetwork.com. You'll find all the links to the socials. Leave me an audio message and how you can work with me, plus 4,000 interviews there. Lots to keep you happy.

[00:26:59] - [Speaker 0]
But more than anything, just love to hear your thoughts on anything you heard today. Until next time, stay curious, stay safe, look after that glucose, and maybe your croissants too. A big thank you to my guest, and I'll speak with you all again tomorrow. Bye for now.