Turning Real Time Sports Data Into Better Fan Experiences With Sportradar

[00:00:00] Your agents aren't producing accurate answers because they don't have a complete semantic understanding of your data. And Denodo is solving this and solving it through semantic consistency. Through semantic consistency, your agents can start making accurate predictions in real time. So see what else Denodo can do by visiting denodo.com to learn more. But now let me introduce you to today's guest.

[00:00:32] How can thousands of data points help us understand a live match without turning the screen into a giant spreadsheet? Well, two years ago, I spoke to Sportradar about how they're revolutionising sport with technology. So I've invited them back on to talk about some of the technology behind the sporting experiences that we take for granted. And at the time where the US Open is on the TV, Athletics, Diamond League and of course the return of the football season,

[00:01:02] it seemed like perfect timing. But I'm going to be joined by Patrick Mostbeck, the Senior Vice President of Fan Engagement at Sportradar. And this time our conversation will move from scores and schedules to the context that explains momentum, tactics, fatigue and performance. Because we're going to discuss how AI can turn official sports data into useful stories. Why a first-time viewer needs something different from a lifelong fan.

[00:01:31] And what Sportradar learned from building foresight for live sport streaming. And Patrick also makes a refreshingly simple case for restraint. The best technology could be the technology that fans barely notice because it just gives them the right insight at exactly the right moment. But enough from me. Let's get Patrick onto the show now. So thank you for joining me on the show today.

[00:01:59] Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? Hey Neil, thanks for having me. My name is Patrick Mostbeck and I'm part of the Sportradar team. My role is Senior Vice President for Fan Engagement. And that means that I have the pleasure to work with our teams on providing all sorts of products and solutions to clients in sports betting.

[00:02:23] But those are rights holders that are around streaming, video streaming, but also live statistics tools, live betting tools. So everything that helps our clients create more engagement in and around the sports that we provide. And it is an exciting time of the year. Of course, the football season has just started back up again. And we have gone from checking a score to having thousands of data points available during a match.

[00:02:51] Even if you're just watching the match, you see there's that many data points and things coming up on the screen now. And of course, every player has got something attached to them, counting how many steps that they take, etc. So we've got a lot of data here. But how can AI turn all that raw information into a story that would actually help a sports fan understand what is happening and why? Yeah.

[00:03:14] So as you already said, I mean, sports data very much has gone from talking about scores, schedules, and stats to terms like tracking, compute division, AI capture.

[00:03:26] So I think all of this is really a shift, but it essentially allows us to process thousands of really real-time data points and turn this raw information into almost instantaneous insights that can essentially explain the why much, much better than it has happened in the past. So not just the actual event itself, but most importantly, really the context around it.

[00:03:55] So I think this is also from a sportive perspective. We are obviously focused on things like data collection, data processing, so more the data side. But in my domain, it's really about context. So how can we use data to explain causation? So why essentially something has happened? And I think this is where AI supports us really heavily because it makes our life much, much easier.

[00:04:19] In the past, you would have had analysts that look through all this data and find the needle in the haystack. But obviously, especially chain AI has made our life a little bit easier in this regard. And outside of football, tennis is another big sport there. That feels like a great example because momentum can change so quickly.

[00:04:41] It's quite a timely topic as well because during the US Open, for example, what can real-time data, what can that reveal about player performance, tactics, fatigue or momentum that somebody just watching it on TV with their own eyes might miss? Anything you can share there? So it's obviously a great timing.

[00:05:02] We talk tennis a little bit because with US Open being the matter of discussion on the matter of attention, I think tennis is really a sport we put a lot of attention at. So let me level set. When we talk data in tennis, at the very foundation level, this is obviously all the basic scoring, the scheduling. So we still need and we still use this data. But then very quickly, we talk about metrics derived from the scoring.

[00:05:32] We talk about automated tracking like shot types and relevant. But then we also talk the deeper tracking metrics. So where exactly is a player positioned on the court? Where's the ball landing on something like a mappable grid? And this granularity of data. So again, if we talk about one point or one rally of tennis, I mean, we talk thousands of data points we can derive there.

[00:05:59] And this granularity can help us understand patterns like fatigue, shifting court positioning. So I'm not sure whether you're a tennis fan, Neil, but if you watch a tennis match, you quickly realize tired players, they move a little different than the ones that are top of the game. And from that, you can then obviously understand certain trends or you could predict certain trends of the game of how the next couple of games might evolve.

[00:06:28] And this is very, very interesting for us. And as a viewer, I think we all increasingly watch sport with a phone or a tablet within easy reach of us there. So rather than fighting that second screen, people working in broadcasting, how can they and their rights holders, how can they use this second screening to make the live experience more informative without distracting us from the match itself? What are you seeing there?

[00:06:59] I think as a very much starting point, I think for us, technology isn't there to compete with the action on the court itself. So, you know, the action on the court is ultimately what matters. It matters to the ones that go to the court, but it also matters to the ones that we bring the experience to, no matter if it's just a simple live match tracker. But also if it's someone watching a tennis match via streaming or a linear broadcast or whatsoever.

[00:07:27] So, and this changing consumption habits, you know, if probably now people are listening to what we're talking about here, I think they all consume a tennis match in a little different way. And I think the length specifically of a grand slam match even exaggerates the situation because I think not many of us have the luxury of probably watching multiple grand slam matches in a row.

[00:07:53] So I think we need to offer necessarily different ways of consuming a match that can be different type of mobile experiences, linear broadcast experiences and so on and so forth. And then I think the other part is different types of understandings of the game. But I think tennis is a great sport to also win new fans and to come into the game fresh. And obviously if someone watches tennis for the first time, we need to provide a different type of context.

[00:08:22] Here I come back to my context point again, versus someone watching tennis for the last 20, 25 years, knowing every data point, knowing the strengths of every player. And I think this is also where the state that we capture, but also the context we can provide can ultimately make the difference in the consumption patterns. And I would imagine there could be a fine line between giving fans useful context and covering the screens with statistics that nobody asked for.

[00:08:51] So how do you determine what information genuinely improves the viewing experience and when technology should maybe take a step back into the background? Yeah, you're very well on point there, Neil, because clearly the main claim is here, less is more. And I can only tell you, we've also in the products we develop, I think we've clearly learned our lessons here.

[00:09:13] Because as we are product builders, you know, as a product manager of something, you always want to show the maximum of bells and whistles that are possible. But then if you turn the products that you design into actual kind of in front of users and you get the first feedback, you quickly realize that if you do everything which is technically possible, it just overwhelms the consumer.

[00:09:35] And so I think the learning we took there and we now try to implement across the range of products and services we do is it almost is the best way if you don't even notice a technology advancement itself, but it just feels naturally like a better consumer experience. So you get certain information and you probably also notice that some of the graphics, some of the visuals have changed and are evolving and do feel more modern and so on and so forth.

[00:10:04] But it should not feel like an experience where you have a hard time following every kind of visual and multiple things popping up. So this is clearly what not only needs to be avoided, but also needs to be kind of learned for building those type of advanced experiences. And Sport Radar's foresight uses AI to identify moments and then place relevant insights directly into the live stream. Incredibly cool.

[00:10:32] But what has building technology like this, what has that taught you about where AI will genuinely add something useful to sports viewing rather than just simply adding more information? More graphics to the screen. Anything else that you learned along the way there? So let me just in one sentence and explain what foresight is to the benefit of everyone out there, I guess. So foresight essentially combines 3D data visualization with contextual data and real-time insights. So that's basically the three main ingredients we put into this product.

[00:11:02] And the reason why we do this is essentially really to provide a more immersive viewing experience for the consumer, but also in collaboration with our rights holder partners to just provide a better product ultimately. So I think we've seen more and more of our partners recognize the potential of this solution. And this product is now available for sports in soccer, tennis, and basketball.

[00:11:28] We also bring it out for the ongoing US Open in tennis for our sports betting clients. And we really learn a lot there about how this context and this additional information can support essentially engagement of users. So obviously we do this and we work on this to expand engagement. So to basically create more engagement.

[00:11:52] But we can also clearly see back to our previous discussion that this additional engagement is only created if we have relevance and if we create a clear storytelling, a clear narrative that is also understandable for the fans. So again, it's not just about making some nice visuals, but it's about drawing this clear narrative that a fan on the other side of the device can understand.

[00:12:18] And I think personalization gets particularly interesting here because a lifelong tennis fan, for example, might want something completely different from somebody maybe who prefers or maybe somebody that's watching their very first US Open. So how can data help create different experiences without fragmenting the shared experience that makes live sports so special? Because we all like different things about sport. Exactly.

[00:12:44] And it's to your point, you know, it's to give every fan a more relevant way into the same sport. So it's really the task is not just one fits all, but it's really how can we, to your point, how can we improve the user experience of someone who just browsed over or came over US Open for the first time and just watches five or 10 minutes?

[00:13:06] And this is essentially the window of opportunity where you can convince someone to tune in again and five to 10 minutes might already be a quite long time. It's probably more realistic to be 30 seconds or a minute where you have to make this convincing argument. So that on the one side, but also those diehard fans. And I think this is also a nice challenge for us in bridging those gaps and providing additional value for both of those user groups.

[00:13:31] And I think the technology is there to allow for this personalization. And the main task is really now, I think, on the content owners out there to drive those narratives, to drive this storytelling. And this is where, obviously, we put ourselves from a sportwear perspective in the place to support content owners out there to do exactly that.

[00:13:57] And I think rights holders have traditionally thought about official data as something that is generated by the event. And I've got to ask, are you seeing that changing now? And do you think leagues, tournaments and broadcasters maybe should be thinking about their data as a strategic asset that can create a new digital experience or experiences and ultimately strengthen fan relationships, generate new revenue? It feels like there's a lot of opportunities here. I think the clear answer is yes.

[00:14:25] So I think an event or a sports event generally has understood that data is an infrastructure that needs to be actively built and commercialized. And obviously, as a thought through, and obviously, to one of the earlier points I made, data is not data. So obviously, there's different granularities, there's different levels. And I think also you can build different experiences for different industries within the sports industry.

[00:14:53] You know, whether it's advertising sponsorship, whether it's coaching analytics, whether it's the sports betting market, you know, those are three industries which might have some things in common. But on the other side, they also address very different needs. But they all go back to essentially needing data as an input for their increased commercialization. I think for us being at the intersection of all of this is quite a nice situation.

[00:15:22] And I always try and give people listening a valuable takeaway. So if there is a rights holder listening today that has years of official sports data but hasn't done much with it, and now they're hearing about AI, etc., where would you tell them to start if they want to use AI and real-time data to create a better experience for fans? What's that first conversation sound like?

[00:15:44] So I think simply put, I would always, from a sports fans' perspective, I would always start with my fans because I think starting somewhere else might just put the actual need off as to why someone would actually engage in that. So I would clearly see, okay, what is it really from the data that I have that my fans are most interested in between a pre-event, pre-match experience or also live experience?

[00:16:10] And I think once this is clear, I think it's probably recommended to do also a status quo assessment of where the quality of the data is. So if everything is pretty well on track and can already be used and has years and years of historic information, maybe as well, I think that's a great setup to have. And I think that also sounds like a ready-made setup for commercialization. But if it's not there, then obviously this is what needs work.

[00:16:38] And I think the third step then is really to engage with potential commercial partners, such as the stakeholders I mentioned before in the advertising, marketing world, in the betting world, in the media world, all of those. So there's a broad ecosystem out there, obviously. And yeah, we are there to help bridge the understanding and then also the solutions and products needed into those different ecosystems. And I think I'm right in saying this, that Sports Radar has been going for 25 years now.

[00:17:07] And I'm curious, if you look back at the history of the company, just how much has technology impacted the world of sport? How much changes have you seen in your time there and the role of tech and sport? It certainly feels like there's been a lot happening over the last few years. But I'm curious, from someone working right in the heart of the space, just how much change have you seen here? Yeah, it's not that I think about it every day because, you know, the in, the out goes by and there's just happening so much.

[00:17:35] But clearly, if you think about it, it's kind of crazy when you think about the change from even in the data world, the focus on very kind of maybe just a handful of data points and the focus on schedule, getting schedules right and getting ultimate scores right to all this depth of data.

[00:17:57] But, yeah, I think the stage we have arrived now is probably even just an intermediate state anyhow. So who knows what happens if we, if we, if we sit here again and talk here again in two or three years from now. So it's, it's clearly a very exciting space to be in. And yeah, we try to do our best to contribute to, yeah, creating better solutions in, in and around sports.

[00:18:23] And I'm curious, when you're out of the office and you're just going around to see a few buddies, have a few beers and, and watch a sport, any sport at all. Has it changed the way that you watch and experience sport with your friends? Are you pointing little things out throughout the game? What do your personal experiences look like then? I, I, I watched my, I watched my last football match on, on the, on the weekend that I got asked whether I would see myself as a, as a sports expert.

[00:18:51] And I, I clearly said no, because obviously there's always someone who is a, who is a better expert. But I think that what I can see with myself, if I think about my own behaviors during watching sports is I think you clearly consume more at the same time. So you, you probably, even if you watch a game live in a stadium, you probably follow scores and, and, and things of, of 10, 15 other things at the same time.

[00:19:17] And I think this very much points to the discussion we, we just had over the last couple of minutes. I think the, the job of, of especially media and broadcasting, I think these days is not just to get one event right, but to basically carry on the fans and the consumers or everything that is happening over a certain weekend. And I think that's, that's on the one side, I think we've got a lot of additional opportunities over the last years, but at the same time, you know, there's so many things going on in terms of sports.

[00:19:46] US Open, while Premier League is happening, while German Bundesliga is happening, while certain basketball leagues are playing. And I think to, to follow all of that at the same time is, is almost impossible, but so, so that's why you really need to personalize to individual needs and habits. And you mentioned Bundesliga there, and I was doing a little research on you guys before I came back on. And one of the things that I quickly remember, you've been working with them for 20 years now.

[00:20:14] So for our German sports fans that could be listening, tell me a bit more about that partnership just to bring to life, what you bring to like a major season and league like this. Yeah, so Bundesliga is, as you, as you rightly said, a very long-term partner of us. And they've went together with us through exactly this transition. So from the early days of data collection distribution to now a setup where we have all, all the tracking data available, all the data available from the Bundesliga.

[00:20:42] And where we also provide augmented streaming solutions, where we provide virtualized life match trackers, where we provide very deep AI insights into the league to both domestic and international fans. Because while there is the strongest fan base of German Bundesliga is clearly in Germany, but then there's also a lot of international fans.

[00:21:04] So I, myself, I'm Austrian and yeah, even in, in, as a small neighbor of, of Germany, obviously German Bundesliga for us is a very interesting league to follow. And some of the products and the tools we are serving there also allow me personally then to follow the league in a better way. And for people listening that may be like a little sports back when they're watching their team, give me an example of how somebody watching a game and how it will enhance their experience.

[00:21:33] And maybe help them improve their chances. Tell me a little bit more about that. So one great example is, is really, you know, the life match tracker. So if, if you, if you use your phone and you want to follow a lot of things at the same time, I think typically life trackers are a great way of doing that. They are, they're very much up to date. They always have the fast stator and more and more, you know, they, they're not just kind of ticker updates, but they also provide some richer media,

[00:22:01] like could be pictures, could be shorter videos. And this is the type of, of experience, which on the one end might, might sound simple, but I think it's, it's essentially what you want to have as a consumer on a weekend on your phone, just some snackable updates along the way that help you understand better what's going on. Love it. And who are your customers? Cause it seems you've got customers right across the board here from the sports league to the broadcaster, to the sports fan. You serve a lot of different people here, right?

[00:22:31] Yeah, exactly. So it really goes as you, as you said, from sports betting operators around the globe to media companies. So we, if you, if you, if you check out the Google statistics on sports on the weekend, those are provided from Sported Air, for example. But equally, you know, we do work with a lot of our rights holder partners in, in providing solutions. They need to also, you know, have their own and operated platforms up to date.

[00:22:58] So it really goes across this ecosystem and yeah, we, we are happy to, to work with all of them along the way. I love how you're powering so many different areas there that sports fans will be checking out all the time, but maybe unaware of you, any, any other big areas where sports fans will be checking every weekend and they're not quite sure that sports radar is providing that service. Is there any, any other areas that, that maybe they can go away and think, oh, I know, I know what powers this now. Yeah.

[00:23:28] So it's look, it's from a sports perspective, it's really football or soccer, depending where in the world you are. Tennis, basketball, hockey, baseball, volleyball, table tennis. So there's, there's really not a relevant sport that we cover anywhere in the world. Cricket, obviously not to forget. So yeah, we, we try to cover it all and just provide, help provide the great user experiences. Love it. And what excites you about the future?

[00:23:57] What makes you want to jump out about you? There's so many different sports, so many exciting things you're working on. The pace of technology is continuing to ramp up and create new opportunities. What gives you a real buzz at the moment? And what, what are you looking forward to? I think for me personally, it's really about predictive capabilities. So, you know, at the moment or where we are coming from is really, you know, reporting on and showing what has happened. I've talked today a lot about, you know, providing additional context to that.

[00:24:24] And I think the next stage that we will see across many of the, the apps all of us are using is, is more and more predictive capabilities. So basically trying to forecast what is happening in the future, showing different scenarios and so on and so forth. I think this opens up new possibilities across media, across sports betting, but also in coaching analytics.

[00:24:46] I mean, imagine there's a coach who can simulate different scenarios between bringing different players into the game in a football match. And then, and then understanding based on data. If you have two strikers, where's the greater likelihood that in this specific game against this opponent, you can, you can score a goal. I think there is, there's so much possible in this space. And obviously it still remains a prediction, right?

[00:25:13] I mean, the beauty of sports is essentially you can never basically tell what the outcome finally is, but the more data you have, the higher the likelihood is that you can make accurate predictions. And I think that's really a space, uh, which we can all, uh, yeah. Watch with, with some excitement. Exciting times ahead.

[00:25:34] I think the only sad aspect of everything that you said there is we might no longer need Paul, the octopus to make predictions on for four games, but for everybody listening, wanting to find out more about sport radar, whether they are a broadcaster in charge of a, a league of some sort or a sports fan or a betting. Where should they go? Uh, plenty of opportunity.

[00:25:58] I would say, so obviously that we are present across the socials or LinkedIn on, on, uh, on, on, on, on, on X and so on, but, but also for our websites for the.com. Uh, and we also have offices across some of the, the main cities in the world. So Vienna, London, Munich, New York, uh, but also in, in Latin America, in, in Asia. So we have a wide ranges of, of presence across the world. So yeah, just, just find your right partner and let's go.

[00:26:26] Well, as a sports fan, I've loved hearing more today about the technology that is bringing some of those immersive experiences and fan experiences to life. It's been amazingly cool to have a peek behind the curtain today, but a big thank you for you sharing your story. Thanks, Neil. Have a great day. I love Patrick's less is more lesson. Feels more relevant, far beyond sport too.

[00:26:49] Product teams can build endless features, overlays and predictions, but technical possibility does not automatically create a better experience. And his starting point for rights holders is equally clear. Begin with the fans, understand what they want before and during an event, assess the quality of the available data, and then consider the commercial partners who can help turn it into something useful.

[00:27:16] And the opportunity for AI lies in context, personalization and prediction. While the result must still respect what makes sport compelling in the first place. So thank you to Patrick for coming on Tech Talks Daily today and showing us what has changed since the last time that we spoke. But over to you, when you watch live sport, do you have a second screen? Which insights genuinely add to the moment and enjoyment of that sport, no matter what it is?

[00:27:43] And which ones just get in the way and feel a little too intrusive? Love to hear your experiences and talk about some of the technology behind the sport. So techtalksnetwork.com Over there you'll find a blog post associated with this episode. And that post will have all the links to everything we talked about today. So thank you for listening as always. Speak to you soon. Bye for now.