Recap of VMware Explore 2025 in Las Vegas

[00:00:03] Hi there, welcome to Across the Tech Pond, the US-European podcast covering the main technology conferences and events hosted by David Marshall, Neil Hughes and myself, Anthony Savas. We're all Avid Technology Conference attendees, visiting the shows, big and small, that help set the agenda across the industry. In this regular podcast, we also cover major news events and trends that feed into the shows we cover.

[00:00:29] In this show, we'll be covering the recently held VMware Explore show in Las Vegas, staged at the Venetian Hotel on The Strip. Before we get on, let's introduce ourselves. David. Hey everyone, like Anthony said, welcome to Across the Tech Pond. I'm David Marshall of VMBlog. I'm located here in the US, in Austin, Texas, and I'm excited to be a part of the show alongside my two friends and colleagues.

[00:00:56] And hi, I'm Neil Hughes. I've not drank a free whiskey since returning from VMware seven days ago now, but in all seriousness, I host the Tech Talks Daily podcast, which is part of the Tech Talks network and also write for Cyber News and Techopedia. And myself, Anthony Savas. I'm based in York, North Yorkshire, where I regularly fly out from England to the US and across Europe to attend these events.

[00:01:22] I work for the European channel title, IT Europa, which covers managed service providers, system integrators, VARs, etc. I also write for the Telecom Press, IoT Now, Vanilla Plus, and various other titles on the network scene as well. So that's me, that's David, that's Neil. Right, as mentioned, we're covering VMware Explore today, the customer and partner event held in Las Vegas at the end of August, which we all went to.

[00:01:47] Just recap, Broadcom completed its acquisition of VMware for $61 billion in November 2023. And since then, there have been complaints among some customers that they have been forced to pay more for their VMware products. And a large number of partners not doing enough business, as far as Broadcom is concerned, have been axed to.

[00:02:08] So, David, in your opinion, did Hocktan, the Chief Executive Officer of Broadcom, do enough during his show keynote to reassure customers and partners? Well, that's an interesting question. Did it reassure customers and partners? I'm not exactly sure about that, but let's come back to that.

[00:02:29] What Hocktan did do, he opened up his keynote by emphasizing that private cloud infrastructure represents the future of IT, and he laid out data to prove it. He also said VCF9 would eliminate operational silos, unify resources, and become the foundational platform of choice.

[00:02:49] And he emphasized the tremendous momentum in the industry, driven in large part by what he described as the cloud reset, which is mainly fueled by AI causing a significant shift back towards private cloud solutions. So, to me, it feels like folks were already on one side of the fence or the other.

[00:03:10] If you're on the, hey, we're okay with this new direction and it's fantastic side of the fence, what you learned in the keynote from Hocktan was enough to reassure you that VMware and Broadcom were going in the right direction. But if you were on the other side of the fence thinking, we have no idea what's going to happen to us, and we like the old vSphere product line, and we came here to better understand the direction of things, you probably weren't reassured.

[00:03:39] And unfortunately, you're probably still trying to figure out in your next steps how to push forward, how to get a better handle on what's next for your migration path. In the end, if you came into VMware Explorer expecting or being excited about VCF9 and migration, your environment to a full private cloud, everything you learned and heard from the keynote did reassure you and possibly did excite you. That's probably a fair comment. I mean, what did you think, Neil?

[00:04:09] I mean, it wasn't a bad summing up there by David. I mean, I don't think there's anything we can really tear apart on there, I mean, in terms of the marketing side and how the partners and customers may not see things. What was your overall feel from the keynote, Neil? Well, I think whenever we're covering an event, we're always listening out for that killer headline. And the last time I saw Hocktan on stage was at Barcelona last year.

[00:04:33] And one of the lines that really stood out to me was, I think he said, some of you work for companies that don't like to pay for the value of technology that we all love. Nevertheless, let's move on. And I think all our jaws nearly hit the floor. We rapidly wrote it down. I thought, there's our story. There's our headline. And then fast forward to June this year. I think he proudly revealed the stat I remember was 87% of VMware's largest 10,000 accounts have actually renewed their plan, which sounds incredibly impressive.

[00:05:02] But when you actually zoom out for a moment and say VMware has got, I think, something like 500,000 customers worldwide, I kind of came thinking Broadcom is only interested in those high value accounts. And when we were watching the keynotes in Vegas, I think it was Walmart was wheeled out, Barclays, and it just seemed to confirm that it was those high value accounts again. But no doubt, Hocktan is a great showman. And he made such a strong case for this long-term vision for the private cloud.

[00:05:31] But again, that delivery left a few gaps. And I think, yes, the opportunity is real. Enterprises are hitting the wall on public cloud costs. And Broadcom feels like it's on the right path to private cloud. And that's going to surge, of course. But the elephant in the room still is both customers and partners need to feel that they're part of this journey, not just passengers in it. And I think the keynote went part of the way, but there's still much more trust building to be done now. What I would say, it was quite a short keynote, wasn't it?

[00:06:01] Maybe it only had to be short because the two of you have taken quite a bit from whatever it was, seven minutes or whatever he was up there for, for a CEO. He's not exactly Larry Ellison, is he? He doesn't get up there for like a good hour or so and really give it to you. But, I mean, you can tell he's getting the most out of his time. He's definitely being told to sort of wave his arms up and emphasize everything. So all the shots are there, aren't they?

[00:06:25] The trade press, the national press what covered it, the US press, they all had him with his hands up there showing he was in control and he was very assertive. So that's what I took from him. And I don't really have to add much to what you guys have said on that particular point about the keynote. But on the actual product updates for the services, the actual products themselves, there was a list.

[00:06:47] And I'm going to quickly read the top lines from VMware so we can refresh ourselves and then we can expand about how we expand and drill down into how important they were. Now, I'll just list them quickly. Broadcom makes VMware Cloud Foundation an AI active platform and accelerates developer productivity. Good for the developers if that's the case. VMware Cloud Foundation elevates cyber resilience, compliance and security for the modern private cloud.

[00:07:14] There was also VMware Tanzu delivers speed and security with AI-ready data and an application platform to drive agentic AI innovation. Quite a mouthful, but that's how it was presented. Broadcom accelerates AI innovation in the modern private cloud with NVIDIA. Broadcom and Canonical expand partnership to optimize VMware Cloud Foundation for modern container and AI workloads.

[00:07:41] So there was some significant announcements there on the face of it. So, Neil, again, I mean, what did you make of all this? Did it do it for you? I think there were so many different announcements, but I think the important thing and anything like this, you've got to zoom out. And I think what stood out to me was that main message and how the conversation has shifted back to private cloud as the central story. And if we go back, what, five, six years, the narrative was all about moving everything to the public cloud.

[00:08:08] And all companies were rushing to AWS Azure and Google Cloud because, hey, the costs look mouthwatering compared to racking and stacking servers in your own data center. But then fast forward today, where are we? I think cloud bills have become one of the biggest pain points that CIOs talk about. Then we've got global conflict, data sovereignty concerns, where how safe and secure are your AI workloads? These are all the big talking points now.

[00:08:35] So for me, that's where VCF9 felt quite timely because Broadcom is kind of betting that repatriation to private cloud is only going to accelerate. And I think they're probably right. For smaller firms without a data center footprint, I think public cloud still makes sense because it delivers instant access to your infrastructure and infrastructure that they just wouldn't be able to build on their own.

[00:08:59] But again, the midsize, especially large enterprises, that equation looks slightly different because they already own facilities. They already have operational talent and they just need predictability. And right now, private cloud, that gives you better security, more control, crucially, more cost transparency and things like bundled AI services, the Tanzu data lake house integration, extend security, stronger development support, etc.

[00:09:28] I think what VMware is trying to do here is give enterprises the exact same experience they'd expect from AWS Azure, but with the control and compliance of running it in their own environment. And that's the big shift for VMware. And I think the cloud story, I think, will resonate with customers who need bringing AI workloads closer to their data, who need regulatory compliance.

[00:09:53] And I think it's incredibly hard to guarantee something like that in public environments, especially if you want to maximize resources like GPUs through virtualization. But of course, on the flip side of all of this, the challenge is scale and perception. If you are going to compete with hyperscalers, you need to show that VCF isn't just fit for a few hundred cores, but for thousands.

[00:10:18] And I think that's why they're pushing hard on all these features that are a matter for developers, not just the infrastructure teams. And I think it feels like the most serious attempt yet to go shoulder to shoulder with AWS and Azure. But whether enterprises will agree on this or I think it will all depend on how well they execute this vision over the next two years. I think that's the big talking point for me.

[00:10:41] So, David, I mean, with that in mind, I mean, obviously, in the announcements, you know, hinted at a lake house offer, AI service bundled into VCF, extended bundled security, more developer support, etc. I mean, and obviously the all-important supporting migration to the private cloud. In addition to what Neil says, what comes to your mind about all this? Yeah, look, to your point, it was a laundry list of announcements.

[00:11:08] And, you know, from my perspective, this was definitely a comprehensive keynote. But where I kind of land is I personally enjoy the breakdown of a day one, day two keynote. And what Broadcom did was pile everything into one keynote, which for me took away some of the excitement only because it had to pile in so much too quickly. There was only one day of keynotes. It was quite surprising. Yeah.

[00:11:34] So normally with a day one keynote, you'd hear about maybe day one, the latest and greatest news and announcements. You'd get the CEO on stage. You'd hear the big picture items. You'd get the, you know, the CEO's vision. You'd hear about the major partnerships and customer wins. And then on day two, you'd have a second keynote where you'd get a deeper dive into the technology. You'd get, you know, onstage demos. You'd get a deeper understanding of how things work and come together.

[00:12:03] We didn't get that. There was no day two keynote whatsoever. Everything was packed into day one, like I said, in a relatively short period of time. In fact, I'd almost commend Broadcom for sticking to the timeline, which almost nobody ever does, right? They started on time. Each person came out and did their pitch. They finished on time. And seriously, how often does that happen? Almost never. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:31] We were all kicked out of our coffee right on time, weren't we? Exactly. Ultimately, though, I think Broadcom presented a compelling case for VMware Cloud Foundation 9, which is the main goal of the show, right? It was pitched and positioned as the leading private cloud solution.

[00:12:52] They did a great job of addressing contemporary IT challenges, digging into the security side of things, explaining the public cloud repatriation, the hows and whys, the developer enablement, operational unification, and pushing towards the exciting side of things. There are new announcements, you know, you gave that laundry list.

[00:13:15] There are new announcements regarding private AI as a service and cyber resilient data demonstrating VMware's forward-looking strategy. Two quick highlights for me from that show. VMware fast-tracking AI workloads with their canonical partnership. VMware will also benefit from prepackaged drivers for VGPUs, allowing for faster AI infrastructure adoption.

[00:13:40] And a well-established ecosystem of AI workload supports due to that canonical tight relationship with NVIDIA. And then the other one, the fact that private AI capabilities are being added onto VCF for free comes with. So VMware plans to embed private AI as a standard, no additional cost component of VCF subscriptions. And, you know, this too will support the next generation of GPUs from NVIDIA and AMD.

[00:14:10] So I think those two kind of things, and obviously AI is a big topic as we head into 2026. So those things kind of stood out to me as well. Yeah. Fair play. I decided to ask a rather stupid question to the head of the Tanzu business unit journalist brief. And I said, well, Tanzu, I hear what you've launched here, but why don't you just bundle that with VCF 9.9? And you said to me, well, why would we do that? And I felt like saying, well, you've bundled everything else with it.

[00:14:38] So obviously, I'm no expert on the actual product list. And obviously, they're doing it because they want to make more money. And they've obviously strategically thought, well, we'll make more money by not bundling it. I mean, was that such a stupid question? I know it's a Lakehouse offer and Tanzu's been around a while, but was it that stupid to ask? Not at all. I don't think so. To your point, right? Everything else from this trade show and all the announcements, everything else was all bundled into VCF 9.

[00:15:07] So the fact that isn't, no, definitely one of the stupid questions. It's, you know, food for thought. Like why this one product when you're talking about everything else from the old days of vSphere, where you had to kind of bolt everything on, why would Tanzu be not part of the complete package as well? So I'm not that stupid. David, okay, that's good to know. In addition to the actual products and services, there was an announcement about a commercial deal with Walmart, which on the face of it looked quite impressive.

[00:15:36] I think, I mean, I'll let you, you know, answer this. But what did you two think about that? So, David, what's your thoughts on that? Yeah, so like you said, a big announcement around Walmart. But as I was listening to it, the first thing that kind of popped into my head, maybe it's not a fair thing. But the first thing that popped in my head when they announced it was, hey, wait a minute, wasn't Walmart already a customer? So at the end of the day, you know, was that really a big announcement?

[00:16:05] Probably not much of an aha moment of, hey, Walmart came on board. But what it did do to me, I guess, was solidify Broadcom's messaging around VCF9. Walmart is the biggest enterprise customer to publicly adopt Broadcom's newest vision of VMware's private cloud platform. And the partnership itself adds scalability to Walmart's compute and storage capabilities.

[00:16:32] It's streaming their infrastructure operations while also helping with Walmart's edge computing technology. So for me, less about Walmart being a customer, which I think is old news, and more about Walmart, a major enterprise company, buying in to the Broadcom vision. Okay. There have been problems with other big customers there, haven't there, Neil? They really have. I recently read the Simon Sherwood's post for the register. I think we all saw at VMware as well.

[00:17:02] And his report revealed that Tesco was suing VMware. And things got quite traumatic very quickly when Tesco claimed the lack of support could disrupt the entire food supply. Maybe I'll need to eat less food, but there you go. And then Tesco are also going after Computer Center as well. I think they're after 100 million in damages. The same deal because they deployed it for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:17:26] And I think Tesco are claiming that VMware also agreed to give you an option to extend support services for an additional four years. But Tesco said Broadcom subscriptions means they've got to pay excessive inflated prices for virtualization software, which they think that they've already paid for. But one of the things that stood out to me from this is it's not a David and Goliath story, is it? The top comment on the article, I think the headline was popcorn time.

[00:17:53] And the top comment has said, a supermarket with a reputation for bullying its suppliers and a supplier with a reputation for bullying its customers. So, I mean, I suspect it'll be settled out of court like AT&T. Stop it, it's farmers. But I suspect this one will be settled out of court like AT&T did. But what did you take away from this, David? Yeah, I think both of you guys, you nailed it, right? It's lawsuits. Look, I'm not a lawyer and I don't understand the legalese of everything.

[00:18:21] But when you hear things online, like in that article where the first time AT&T filed a lawsuit in many ways for the same thing that smaller entities were themselves upset over, right? The notion of, hey, we purchased our own perpetual licenses. What part of perpetual doesn't make sense? We want to keep using our paid for licenses that we've already paid for, continue to get support. But you're telling us that we can't.

[00:18:49] And these perpetual license owners, they don't want to move to subscription pricing, paying for licenses that they say they've already paid for, they already own. So I think the AT&T case outcome, which happened a while back, was already resolved. But I don't think we know the actual conclusion of what happened. I don't think that was made public. And now, like you said, we have the Tesco lawsuit in the news.

[00:19:17] One of the things that struck me was the comment that Tesco, as a supermarket, may not be able to put food on the shelves if the situation over their VMware licensing doesn't get resolved. That's a pretty big statement right there, right? Who in their right mind wants to be on the other side of people will starve if they don't get these licenses for their virtualization resolved?

[00:19:41] So at the end of the day, the argument isn't limited to these two behemoth companies, AT&T and Tesco. It's a problem across the spectrum of VMware customers who purchased perpetual licensing. But not everyone has the lawyers on hand or the money to fight Broadcom like AT&T and Tesco. So what happens to the little people? Don't know. I guess they either have to pay up or move on.

[00:20:09] I think we've just activated prep mode for Tesco shoppers and Walmart shoppers around the world with our comments, didn't we? Toilet paper is running out as we speak. Right. But yeah, I mean, obviously competitors are going to be making hay out of this. I think it would be very entertaining. We'd have to get the popcorn out if it actually did get to court. But obviously, I don't know if the two of you saw that. There was a statement put out by the Nutanix CEO. And he was trying to benefit from it.

[00:20:37] He was saying that this is a demonstration of what happens when you try and push people on products and services that actually want and charge them in the way they don't want. And he was claiming that over the last year, they've signed over 2,700 new customers. And the majority of them all being ex-VMware customers. I mean, we've heard about people moving towards some of the rivals, but still staying with VMware and still paying out because they can't do it.

[00:21:04] But his specific quote was that they were ex-VMware Broadcom customers, 2,700 of them most of. And I don't know, maybe they'll invite us to their show next year and we can put Nutanix under a greater scrutiny. But going back to Neil, regarding the show, the numbers, the atmosphere, the enthusiasm. I mean, Neil, did the show hit the spot for you?

[00:21:28] Did it actually, apart from looking at the product, did the atmosphere, did the organisation, did the whole thing really do it for you this time? Yes and no. I love the private cloud approach. I can see what they're trying to achieve. But going back to the Walmart situation, I was sat there. And for me, the big elephant in the room was, just read the room, guys. All these people that are unhappy is because they feel that you're only looking after the large enterprises. And the first thing you do is say, hey, look at all these large enterprises we're serving.

[00:21:55] I would have loved to have seen some smaller to medium-sized enterprises on that stage. I think that would have sent a much clearer message because customers still feel, or many feel, that they're being forced to pay for extras that they would never have chosen to purchase. And smaller companies with smaller teams, they lack the time and budget to extract full value from every single component there.

[00:22:18] But one of the things I would say is when we were hunting for tech swag, like lightsabers, socks, T-shirts, and maybe even stroking puppies, one of the things that really stuck out to me was all the top sponsors there, if you looked around, the show floor was fairly sparse, to say the least. But what did stand out was AWS, Azure, and Google. They were very much their competitors as much as their partners and backup vendors who've been called to VMware's ecosystem story for years.

[00:22:47] Obviously, you would know all about, David. Many of them were missing. And I did find myself thinking, are they doing enough to keep the partner community engaged in this new private cloud-centric strategy? So, yes, on one side, they hit the mark, and on the other, there's still a lot of work and trust building to be done. What did you think, David, overall? Yeah, so I've been to every VM world and every VM explorer in the U.S.

[00:23:11] And while I think this year's event was, you know, it was set up very well logistics-wise, content-wise, it definitely felt like it was a much smaller event than any other year, except for maybe the very first one back in 2004 in San Diego, the inaugural event, where I think it had 1,200 attendees.

[00:23:32] So following that, the next one was in, I think, in Las Vegas for 2005, and it grew to 3,500 attendees. So it was quite the leap. And while I've never heard an official count this year, I agree, I heard it was somewhere, anywhere between 2,500 and 5,000 attendees. But to me, to your point, it seemed like it could have been around that 3,500 mark from matching 2005.

[00:24:02] And that's a far cry from its heyday. I think it was 2014 in San Francisco. It actually peaked. It had 26,000 attendees. Wow. Yeah. But, you know, hey, like every other year, personally, I had a great time. I enjoyed myself. I learned a lot. I got to see old and make new friends in person at the show. I had great conversations with Broadcom and VMware team members.

[00:24:31] And I met a few new companies showcasing their technology in the expo. What was it? Broadcom and VMware, who put on the event itself, the team that did the event. Did an excellent job. I definitely missed, to Neil's point of things feeling a bit sparse. I definitely missed the end user computing angle of the show that used to be highly prevalent at VMworld. That segment completely disappeared last year.

[00:25:00] So do. Right. With the sell-off to Omnisa. So the expo floor was smaller than last year. And Neil brought it up. But we also missed some of the big names that we're used to seeing at this show. The backup vendors, the Veeam, the Cohesities. We didn't see Red Hat, who usually has a nice-sized booth. Or LG or HPE. I mean, Dell was represented. But HPE wasn't there. And they're normally there.

[00:25:29] So, and not to pick at it too much. But where I think it really felt flat this year. Besides the number of attendees. Which really matters to those people who are sponsoring the show itself. Right? The vendors who are paying to be there. Was the closing party. I'm sad I didn't get to hang out with you guys for the closing party. You had early flights home. So you missed it. And I realized that we're no longer going to get in 2025 and beyond.

[00:25:58] It doesn't look like we're going to get to see the Killers or Imagine Dragons or Jon Bon Jovi. You know, performing at these shows anymore. I think this one they had a DJ. But the food was suspect. So you guys didn't miss anything there. But yeah. Honestly, I just had a lot of fun at the party. Hanging out and talking with people. But yeah. The entertainment value was not quite the same experience as years gone by. Oh, the writing is on the wall for that then.

[00:26:25] I was given the figure between about 3,000 and 5,000. Not officially by VMware marketing press or PR. I heard someone mention that's what they were being told by poking around in the background there. 3,000 to 5,000. I mean, in terms of VMware hosting general type shows. I mean, you have a good point there. Because I haven't been to every VMware show in the US by any means. But I've been to Barcelona quite a lot.

[00:26:52] And when I first went there, I thought this had a taste of like a general IT show. It was seen by me and others as one of the biggest general IT shows in Europe. The amount of different vendors there. Many of them competitors with VMware. Having stands at what was then called VMworld in Barcelona. And it was a very good show. You could generally meet other people who weren't involved in VMware. And actually get a couple of stories or make a few contacts.

[00:27:18] But I think it is a very streamlined event and more focused, obviously, on VMware like you would expect anyway. But there used to be a bit more for everyone there at these shows. Well, is that the case? Yeah. I mean, exactly. To me, all signs were pointing to this being the last of the VMware Explorer events, right? Which would be a terrible thing in my mind. So, like you said, they canceled the Barcelona event this year.

[00:27:45] And let's be honest, I wasn't in attendance like you. But I've always heard that it was wildly successful last year. Very well attended. So, who knows? I was told at one point this was year three of a three-year contract at the Venetian for VMware Explorer. And so, I thought this was going to be the last one.

[00:28:08] Even during the keynotes, they usually will say an announcement of, hey, next year we're going to be at this event or this place at this time. And none of that happened. The only thing that I did see were two small little nits. I think it was a VMware blog post or on the webpage where they said, hey, we're going to be back, VMware Explorer 2026, coming to the end of August back in Vegas.

[00:28:36] So, it sounds like the show itself will be back next year in the U.S., not in Barcelona. I think that's going to be a thing of the past. But what they may end up doing in EMEA instead of doing a big event in Barcelona, which is what I thought they were going to also do here in the U.S., was focus on regional transitory moving around different parts of the country with much smaller events. I think there was a bit of confusion at the VMware end as well, before I come to you, Neil, because I had a sit down.

[00:29:06] I think maybe it was you, David, who started the rumor this was going to be the last VMware event. But it got spread around quite a bit. And I sat down in front of a VMware executive in a one-to-one meeting. And I said, what have you heard about this? And he rambled on about, oh, yeah, we're going to focus on regional events. And I thought, well, is that the case then? And then the PR next to me said, I don't know if that's the official VMware line by any means. I'll find out for you. I'll get back to you. And, of course, they never do with these things, do they?

[00:29:34] But in the space of hearing that and then leaving Vegas, someone put out, didn't they, on a shared WhatsApp group, a confirmation that there was going to be something in Las Vegas, a VMware Explorer, happening at the end of August next year. And assumedly, an international event again. Is that what you picked up, Neil? Yeah. Well, same as you guys. Every journalist I spoke to was convinced that this was going to be the last year. And when you looked around, everything seemed to signal that.

[00:30:02] And I think it was Simon Sharwood from the Registry show, David and I, that, hey, look at this. It's going to be returning, actually. We were both surprised. And maybe we just created that rumor ourselves. I don't know. But, I mean, I did know. There was a genuine lack of commercial news. So we just made that up. Yeah. And I don't know that it was that I or any of us started the rumor. I think it was just the fact that there was no mention of it, right? Normally, you hear something.

[00:30:30] And like both of you, I had conversations with PR, with people from VMware, with other journalists. And no one had a clue, except like Neil said, that right at the end when Simon said something to us. So I don't know. Yeah. And I think if we combine that news, I think Broadcom also put a press release that I know they were going to be saying this because they've got something to sell.

[00:30:52] I think it was 92% of IT leaders trust private cloud for security and compliance compared with the concerns of safeguarding data in the public cloud. So my takeaway from that and the events back next year is they need to be executing this vision for a private cloud that we saw this year. And that we need to see a continuation of that next year. So I think for now, at least, VMware Explore is safe. And it seems like the perfect platform to showcase everything and prove that they're executing on this. But we could be wrong.

[00:31:22] We got the event cancellation wrong, right? Yeah. Well, and I think you're right. I would be looking forward to next year's event if that is the case. Let's have the proving grounds. Let's see it. Let's see what private clouds have been brought back in. And let's hear about the success stories. Yeah. I mean, and last to say for me, I mean, I did go to a channel roundup by the hosted by a woman who drives all the VMware programs.

[00:31:48] And she was saying that basically in terms of business in their commercial business, the commercial bucket business, that would normally just involve, you know, small companies generating sales for VMware and some mid-market. And she was saying some of those were actually buying into VCF 9.0, particularly the larger mid-market customers, which initially was a bit of a surprise to them. So they haven't given up the ghost in terms of selling a VCF 9 to smaller enterprises, smaller businesses.

[00:32:17] But like you say, the proving ground will be next year when maybe you can line up a few other customers on a panel maybe and actually show us what they've done. They will probably mention that insurance company, that American insurance company. They were probably mid-market. They had bought into VCF, hadn't they? Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Let me ask you this. Based on what we just talked about and the fact that we said, you know, the show Expo floor was sparse

[00:32:42] and the big, huge vendors that were there were Amazon, Google, and Azure or Microsoft. If it is about private cloud and bringing cloud repatriation and bringing everything back from the cloud, do you think if they have a 2026 edition of the show, are those three cloud hyperscaler companies, are they going to be huge booths again if everybody is bringing it back on premises? Wow. That would be an interesting thing to see, wouldn't it, Neil?

[00:33:12] It would. A controversial moment to end on there, David. Right. A big teaser. We've set the rumor mill off again. Love it. And that's a good point. It probably is a good point to actually finish on. So unfortunately, we're out of time and we're going to say our goodbyes. And just to confirm, we've really appreciated you watching and listening to us across the tech pond. And we'll be doing more soon. And we'd like as much feedback as possible. Where you see this broadcast, please put it out on your socials. Help promote it.

[00:33:42] Because we'll do a lot more of it because we want to be honest and actually give you a take, particularly for the people who don't make these shows. So we can give you an honest take. So I'm going to say goodbye. And I'll leave you two to say goodbye as well, please, gents. Well, I would just say thanks for watching and listening. And if any of you are listening to this or watching this or going to a tech conference, on either side of the tech pond, there's a high probability that one of us is going to be there. So if you see any of us, just pop over, say hello.

[00:34:10] Maybe we could record something, get you on here. Because this is a dialogue, not a monologue. I think that's what we want to be doing here and get as much voices or as many voices as we can. Absolutely. And finally, I'd be remiss if I didn't throw a quick shout out to the VMware communities team, the Broadcom VCF business unit and Broadcom's partner NetApp for an awesome, I wish I had it with me right now, an awesome VXpert branded bomber jacket that they gave away to all the VXperts at VMware Explorer this year.

[00:34:40] So thank you all for that. And then finally, make sure everyone who's watching or listening right now, make sure to check out all of our collective articles that the three of us have written. We've written extensively on VMware Explorer 2025. So we'll put links to each of those articles and other podcasts or videos or whatnot. But we'll link all those into the video description so that you have access to that. David, are you going to be wearing that bomber jacket on episode two? I need to say this.

[00:35:10] It depends on how low I put the AC on at home. On the next Nutanix podcast. Yeah. If we're doing it in December where it's, you know, 20, 30 degrees, you'll definitely see me wearing it. Goodbye, folks. All right. Take care. Take care. Bye. Bye.