Wavemaker on Driving Real-World Impact Through AI

[00:00:01] Today, I'm going to be exploring the intersection of innovation, marketing technology or Martech and diversity and leadership with a guest who's been making waves across the industry. Her name is Sarah Salter. She is the Global Head of Innovation and Platforms at Wavemaker Global. And they are at the forefront of applying cutting edge technologies that solve complex growth strategies.

[00:00:28] We've heard a lot in the news recently around businesses struggling to find the ROI from their tech or AI project. But Wavemaker are doing just that in everything from AI and voice platforms to AR and VR and data-driven personalization. Today, we'll explore how immersive technologies are already reshaping brand engagement, shifting from interruptive advertising to culturally relevant experiences.

[00:00:58] What strategies can brands adopt to keep pace with rapid technological advancements that we're all seeing right now? And how can innovation leaders ensure that these technologies resonate with their consumers? Well, buckle up and stay tuned because we're going to tackle all of these questions today and a few more. So thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.

[00:01:22] For everyone listening, hearing about you for the first time, could you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? I can. And thank you so much for having me. I'm Sarah Salter. I'm the Global Head of Innovation and Platforms for Wavemaker, which is a part of the WPP group. So in a nutshell, I lead our innovation, gaming, entertainment and influencer platform teams.

[00:01:46] And we work with the top kind of global brands to help them really tap into culture through emerging technology and trends. And it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast because when I was doing a little research on you, not only are you the Global Head of Innovation at Platforms at Wavemaker, you focus on some pretty cool tech and emerging technology from AI, AR, VR, voice platforms, all to solve complex growth challenges.

[00:02:14] And I think we do get distracted by the technology sometimes and not the problems that we're solving. So how do you ensure these innovations deliver practical, measurable results for global clients? Because I think a lot of people are saying with their AI investments that, oh, we didn't think about the ROI of this and finding out the hard way. So how do you navigate around that? It's a very good question. And of course, it's super easy to get caught up in the excitement and hype of new technology.

[00:02:42] I think just by the very title I have around innovation, I'm often brought in to get people excited about the potential of new technologies. But I guess at the end of the day, if you remove the technology, it still has to be a great idea. And I guess that's really where we're really focused first and foremost on how we can solve a business problem through great ideas and great solutions.

[00:03:08] So I think starting kind of at the beginning, we really go into that audience research and design methodologies to ensure that we're solving those problems in the best way. And then we set very clear KPIs up front to track that progress. So that will just allow us to do things like optimize in real time, iterate as we see changes and help us really demonstrate the returns of our innovations.

[00:03:36] So what that means, I guess, an example, let's take augmented reality, super exciting technology. We really start with a hypothesis about how augmented reality could improve a specific metric. It could be something like cultural relevance. And then we would run a B test to compare what an AR experience would deliver versus a generic experience. And then we measure that impact.

[00:04:03] And you really do just that, because for my research, you've led digital transformation projects for huge major companies like Nationwide's Local Voices on Alexa and Google and the NHS's WhatsApp COVID-19 response during the pandemic. So you must have seen and heard so many different things, probably seen a little bit of kickback from technology or the encroachment of technology, as some people would say.

[00:04:28] So what are the key lessons that you've learned about driving consumer engagement through technology in both public and private sectors? I would imagine you've got quite a unique vantage point here. For sure. I mean, I think probably the first lesson is try not to build something during lockdown with two toddlers. That is definitely the biggest challenge I might have faced in my career.

[00:04:51] But no, I mean, we deliver some incredible projects and brilliant large scale projects, as you say, across both public and private sectors. And the two examples that you mentioned were both really rewarding projects. I'll touch on, I guess, maybe the NHS COVID misinformation response we built. We had a very short amount of time, a lot of pressure to turn around a very complex project which hadn't been done before.

[00:05:17] But honestly, to me, it really comes down to having the right recipe for innovation. I think government can often be perceived as being slow and layered, but this really wasn't the case in this project. Speed and agility were essential for delivering it. The NHS campaign was obviously launched in response to a really rapidly evolving crisis. And we had to be very agile and adapt our approach as the situation changed. The thing I think that really stood out in this project was collaboration.

[00:05:46] We had a client who was determined to deliver a brilliant solution, move fast, break things to make it happen. And a partner who was willing to do a first, to knock down doors, to make sure we utilize their platform and bring on the best team to help us. And then like anything, a mission that you can all really get behind. I think the mission around COVID and a time that was really, really challenging made us all very unstoppable.

[00:06:14] We all wanted and had this mission to help as many people as we can. So accessibility was really critical when we were designing this product. We know that WhatsApp is accessible to a large proportion of the population. And this NHS campaign had to be incredibly simple and easy to use to reach a diverse population.

[00:06:36] I think both projects really highlighted the importance of understanding the needs and motivations behind our audiences. We used a lot of user research to inform our design decisions and to drive that consumer engagement. And continually going back, the government are brilliant at continually testing against the audience. As we're nationwide, we did a lot of testing before we went live.

[00:07:04] And ultimately, technology is the tool, but it was how we used it to connect with people on a human level that really mattered on both of these projects. And on a personal level, one of the things that stood out to me is the variety of work throughout your career. I mean, you've had over 15 years experience working with brands from P&G and Casio to Equinox and seen so many different tech trends come and go in that time as well.

[00:07:32] But I'm curious, how has your cross-industry background influenced your approach to innovation, digital transformation and your work at Wavemaker? Because I feel like there's a story there too, right? There's always a story, Neil. I genuinely think that everybody at some point in their career should work or change or pivot or cross industries. I think it is how great innovation happens.

[00:07:58] And personally, I found my diverse background has been invaluable in shaping my approach to digital transformation and to my day-to-day work. I think a number of things that kind of, I guess, stand out to me. Every industry has its own set of assumptions, its challenges, its best practices.

[00:08:21] And I think that cross-industry experience really allowed me in all of the different roles I went into to challenge those assumptions quite freely and bring in some new perspectives to the table. So let's take Equinox as an example. Equinox is a luxury health brand. And they famously hired from different backgrounds and industries because they didn't want to be like any other gym brand. They wanted to be elevated. They wanted to work in tech.

[00:08:49] And we launched some incredible new initiatives off the back of this diversity of thought. We had things like connected cycling experiences. We launched incredibly provocative lifestyle campaigns that pulled on from our chief creative officers' experience in lifestyle brands. So I think I've seen firsthand how it can really impact and drive that change.

[00:09:14] I also, on a day-to-day, think it just gives you greater empathy for other people. I've worked for major big brands, as you said, be it as a CMO, a startup or head of marketing brand and now agency. And I think it's given me insight into those really unique challenges that each of those industries bring. Wavemaker, I have found it more often than not helpful to put myself in my client's shoes.

[00:09:44] Remember what it was like being a client. It helps us get to the solution and solve the problems quicker, helps us break down the barriers. Digital transformation is a huge, huge topic. And I remember being tasked with this client side and it comes with huge complexities, often huge budgets. But for many clients, that can often be challenging and they don't know where to start.

[00:10:06] So being able to just go in and understand that and work backwards and maybe start smaller and prove experiments and work up to that kind of full approach to transformation is key. I think another area as well is understanding different customer journeys, how technology can be used to support different journeys. At Casio, we segmented tribes. We understood fan culture.

[00:10:30] And when I came into this role, it really helped me understand how to better activate across fan culture on platforms. I mentioned Equinox. We partnered with some of the best and most incredible tech and wearable companies, even the likes of Apple. And we really saw our role was to help consumers interpret that vast amount of data that they get from those devices

[00:10:55] and share what it means for how they work out, how they show up at the gym, how they perform and even how they sleep. And I think an experience like that's crucial to help understand the value of data and how we use data and the importance of that data. So there are, I could probably name you a million examples. But I think if you look at some of the best leaders in our industry, they come from different sectors.

[00:11:20] Emma Wormsley, from her role at L'Oreal to CEO of GSK, or even Bob Iger, an incredible example. Before he was CEO of Walt Disney, he had lots of strong financial roles. I could go on. I feel very passionately about this kind of cross-discipline experience. And that passion really comes across in our conversation today. And I think the insights you're sharing there, those real-world examples, are so valuable

[00:11:50] because we will have a lot of business leaders listening in multiple industries that often struggle implementing emerging technologies effectively. In my own career, I've seen very often that there's too much of a focus on technology and less on the corporate culture and how they actually embrace that. So I feel like it's just been thrown on them. But what advice would you give to organizations maybe looking to simplify the integration of AI, voice platforms, personalized data strategies, all that cool stuff into their marketing efforts?

[00:12:20] Any advice that you would offer on that? Yeah, it's a really interesting question. I guess, to me, getting to the root of why they struggle to implement is key. From my personal experience, I often see brands struggle because they don't know why they're implementing the technologies. And AI, aside from it being very topical, is a great example of that. The amount of people who have come to me and said,

[00:12:45] I've been tasked with rolling out our AI task force, our AI experiments. But the ask feels so big. They just do not know where to start. So starting small, staying focused, instead of trying to implement AI across the entire marketing organization, the implementation will be easier and the output will be better. I also think understanding is a huge area.

[00:13:11] There is often a huge, huge lack of investment in training and education. And these are really complex areas. And we've seen it show up in government where governments haven't fully understood the power of technology. We see it showing up in businesses. We have to give teams the tools, the understanding to use these technologies effectively. And where it's incredibly complex, bringing in and not being afraid to partner with experts who can help.

[00:13:40] I'm often brought in to upskill and help drive that knowledge into teams. And I think that's critical. And then finally, I guess I'll sound like a broken record based on what I said earlier. But we have to focus on the why before we implement emerging technologies. Why are we using a technology? How will it benefit our consumers? There is no point doing it for the sake of doing it. It has to add value to the organization.

[00:14:09] And it's so refreshing to hear you say that. And you're probably far too modest to bring this up. So I'm going to bring it up here. But I did read that you've been recognized as an IPA woman of tomorrow. So huge congrats there. But you're also a strong advocate for diversity in tech and leadership. So we've got a great platform here. So for anyone listening, how can the industry better support women in tech roles? And what role do you see diversity playing in driving innovation?

[00:14:37] Because I think diversity of thought, for one, is so important. It seems like we've been talking about this for so long. Are things getting better too? Oh, well, I hope that they were. But obviously, in the news recently, tech companies have announced they're pulling back on DE&I initiatives. And it's really sad and quite disheartening. And I just hope that people don't get put off by some of the news stories,

[00:15:04] because that passion that I talked about before and the potential for innovation is huge. Maybe starting with innovation, diversity. I talked about it in terms of industry, but diversity of people is essential. It's essential for delivering greater innovation. Different perspectives and experiences lead to better output. There are, again, so many famous stories in marketing where teams have lacked diversity.

[00:15:32] And it's meant really bad things for the brand. We look at early Fitbit models, and I remember this. They track steps based on arm movements. And so parents pushing prams couldn't count their steps, which was generally a lot of mums like to put on their Fitbit and make sure they're doing their 10,000 steps a day. Voice recognition systems like Siri, Alexa, they've struggled to understand accents other than American and British English.

[00:16:01] Underscoring, again, the need for diverse data sets, diverse engineering teams to make sure that those AI-powered products are inclusive and accessible to everybody. I think a lack of diversity not only leads to really dangerous, potentially biased algorithms, but dangerous products. Products that can damage a company's reputation, that can erode trust. And also, I don't understand why companies don't realize

[00:16:29] that the opportunities they are missing could be huge. It's the opportunity to connect with new markets. It's the opportunity to develop new products that meet a more diverse and wider-ranging consumer. Just look at some of the success that we've seen from Rihanna with Fenty Beauty as an example. And then I guess when it comes to women in tech, I think we all have a responsibility to create a diverse tech industry.

[00:16:59] I think it starts early on. It starts with the education system. It starts by better investing in STEM education. And there's some great initiatives out there, like the STEMETs, for example. It also means creating work environments that are supportive and inclusive of women, showing up with more role models in this space. We, certainly at WPP, we have some incredible initiatives that really help drive that inclusivity,

[00:17:26] including one of my favorites, which is Back in the Game, to support mothers returning to the workforce. But yeah, I mean, I don't think I was aware of many other females in the innovation and tech space growing up. And it certainly wasn't really on my radar when I was sat with my UCAS career advisor all those years ago. So showing up with successful women in tech is crucial for the next generation.

[00:17:53] And I'd love and to use your platform, as you said, to find a way to help spotlight more incredible women in tech. There are some incredible people out there who I work with, who I know who we can connect into. So maybe your next podcast now. Absolutely. More than welcome. And I would say for anybody listening, wherever they are in the world, if they're inspired by our conversation today, please don't just sit here passively listening. Contact me, contact you, Sarah,

[00:18:22] and we'll make something happen alongside that as well. It's such an important message. And everything is at the heart, or everything, the consumer is, of course, at the heart of absolutely everything here. And that's why that diversity of thought, again, is so important. If you're not as diverse as the consumers you're serving, how can you effectively serve them? And their expectations, they're evolving rapidly too, especially with the rise of immersive technologies from AR and VR, for example.

[00:18:52] But how do you see these technologies shaping the future for brand engagement? And what excites you most about their potential? Because I think in the last, what, 18 months or so, it feels like AI might have overshadowed that a little bit. But what are you seeing here? And what excites you about them? I guess working across quite a broad spectrum of innovation, I see quite broad behavioral shifts and trends, trends like world building and fandom

[00:19:19] that are just taking us into a new era. We're very focused at Wavemaker on media, and we've seen a huge step change beyond kind of this interruptive advertising to participatory media, right? To connecting with consumers in spaces where they're choosing to spend their time and their attention. And these are environments, I guess, where consumers are wanting that emotional connection. They're wanting shared experiences.

[00:19:47] It's a world where attention is the ultimate currency, and finding really innovative new ways to connect is key. And I think there are lots of different opportunities around this area. We talked a little bit around AR, VR, and I'd separate out the two. I think AR is incredible at really driving that personalization. Things like virtual try-on have evolved through to hand tracking, and the movements that you can track are utterly incredible.

[00:20:17] Through to things like VR, where the potential for brand storytelling is huge to transport consumers into new worlds. We're in a world where personalization is everything, and using VR to make an experience feel personal is very, very powerful. We've actually been building some amazing experiences on the Apple Vision Pro at the moment. It's amazing when you put it on a client, you can just see their faces in amazement

[00:20:45] as they just feel a part of the experience and the journey. So I guess probably what excites me is what's to come. For anybody who is lucky enough to get to go to places like the sphere in Vegas, you get to see the potential of these technologies and these combinations of technologies. So unlocking more of our senses, combining augmented reality with smell and haptics,

[00:21:13] it just has the potential to revolutionize how consumers engage with brands. And I think what I've seen over the last year is our metrics, our KPIs shifting. We're seeing brands measure cultural relevance. We're seeing them measure time spent in experiences. I think we are just on the cusp of magic, of taking consumers into just unimaginable worlds

[00:21:41] through the worlds of things like AI and immersive technology. Yeah, I completely agree. And the sphere in Vegas is something else, isn't it? And I think there's an old saying that the last best experience becomes the standard expectation for every future experience. And if you've seen, I don't know, something like U2 in the sphere, that's completely changed your standard expectation for concerts, hasn't it? For sure, yeah. I mean, you're seeing it across music more and more.

[00:22:09] Musicians are having to be much more creative. It's not just a performance anymore. It's a show. It's an engagement. The likes of Coldplay and their technology, it's just, it's incredible what's happening in the world of experience right now. And of course, you've chaired the campaign technology judging panel. So you must see some of the most innovative work in media and marketing out there. So I'm curious, what trends or innovations have stood up or stood out to you recently?

[00:22:39] And where do you see the industry heading next? Because you're quite a privileged position here. It is such a privilege, honestly, to get to see incredible work. And I would say it's the best bit about my job, getting to look at all this incredible creativity. It gets me so, so excited for the future and for potential generations. And I think when we talk about that innovative work, I could probably theme it quite well.

[00:23:07] And I talked before about this kind of shift in media from this passive consumption to active participation. And this is really driven by the convergence of advanced technologies and these kind of consumer changing expectations. And it's really, in the last couple of years for sure, changed the type of work that we're seeing. I, at the moment, I'm talking to clients about four kind of behaviors that I'm seeing that are really standing out.

[00:23:36] And they are lead, equip, connect and participate. And what that means is for each of those, brands are taking a leadership position on how they use new technology. So it could be a brand like Dove, who have vowed to champion real beauty and they've made a commitment never to use AI to create or distort women's images. It could be brands focusing on driving that deeper connection. And some of the work that we've seen around getting closer to fans and communities

[00:24:05] is incredible. We've just done a great piece of work with John Deere Tractor Company. And we recently worked to recruit a chief tractor officer on social platforms to really drive relevance to younger, younger generations. It could be things like the work that we've done with L'Oreal. We recently did a piece of work where we put men undercover in game as females so that they could experience how women gamers were treated.

[00:24:33] Again, just driving that connection on a much, much deeper level. And I think the last piece, and I'm quite excited about this area, actually, of innovation in tech, is brands thinking about how they go beyond a transaction and they give things to consumers. They equip consumers with tools, with knowledge, with resources. We see it with the likes of Google who give away free AI courses or Amazon in the way

[00:25:02] that they treat new businesses or TikTok and the tools they give to creators. Brands are really leveling up innovation in this space. And I think gaming is a really interesting space that this is happening in. We just did a piece actually with Roblox and Danone where we gave consumers in-game items and rewarded them with in-game items. And the engagement was utterly huge. So I think those are kind of the four, I guess, themes that I see emerging.

[00:25:32] But, you know, overall, I would say our industry is headed towards greater personalization, which isn't changing. But most excitingly, more immersed future. You know, as I kind of gave the Dove example, I think consumers and certainly younger generations, Gen Alpha, they want brands that they can believe in. They want brands that stand up for them, that really go to bat for them. And I think we're seeing that more and more

[00:26:01] delivered through innovation. And I would just add as well, I think technology undoubtedly plays a key role in how we shape that future. But all of those examples in innovation really show that it's how we connect on that human level that really matters. I love that. Again, such a broad spectrum from tractors to beauty products and gaming. But it's the role of technology and also that human element as well and bringing people together.

[00:26:31] And I always say at the end of every episode, technology works best when it brings people together. So kudos to you for what you're doing here. And if we dare to look further ahead, if I was to ask you to look into my virtual crystal ball, what do you think have been the most significant opportunities and challenges for global brands seeking to leverage technology for growth? And how are you at Wavemaker preparing to meet them? Because it's an incredibly exciting time. It's probably a little bit daunting for some of the brands out there. But what are you seeing there?

[00:27:00] What excites you? I think there are a huge number of opportunities. I think seeing how brands are thinking about how they evolve, how they get closer to consumers and the technologies that will enable them to do that is really, really exciting. I can't not talk about AI and the opportunity to drive that personalization at scale. We've made a huge commitment with spending hundreds of millions of dollars investing in AI to help brands

[00:27:29] really keep up and drive that pace of change. I think a lot of clients are nervous about how they keep up with the rate of change. We talked about it earlier. Technology evolves at a rapid, rapid pace. It's getting quicker than ever before. And it's also quite specialist. I think some of the specialisms around things like large language models, we don't see marketing teams set up for today.

[00:27:57] So for us, it's about investing in talent, the right talent, and investing heavily in that talent, investing heavily in technology so that we can equip our brands with the right tools and technology to deliver on the future. And also partnerships that will really help us navigate these challenges. We know from our side, partnering with Roblox for gaming is key for us.

[00:28:26] Partnering with NVIDIA and AI has been a key strategy for us. And building our teams around these partnerships, building our teams around the technologies that we're focused on, AI, data science, emerging technology, and using all of these technologies responsibly and ethically is super exciting. And I think we started early and I think we are in a really, really strong position. And I'm super excited,

[00:28:55] not just for our brands on the opportunities, but how together we're going to do some incredible work. Exciting times ahead. And of course, as you said, the speed of technological change is moving faster than ever before, but there's also a chance it might never move this slow again. And I know a lot of people will find that daunting. And I love how you're leveraging technology to enable brands to evolve. And as I said, many people listening will find this hard. So I've got to ask,

[00:29:24] is someone leading the way here? There is this real pressure on everyone to be in a state of continuous learning. Where or how do you self-educate? How do you keep up to speed with this pace? I think it's really important that you learn daily, firstly. Even if I only have 25 minutes in the morning, I normally have an hour actually on my commute. I listen to podcasts. I normally listen to them on two times speed. So I can get more information in quickly. I tend to listen

[00:29:53] and read what other people aren't. We talked about that diversity earlier. I think we all tend to read and listen to the same things. And I think there are some incredible people out there who are talking about things in different ways. I've recently just done my MBA, but I decided not to do a traditional MBA, but to do a future MBA, which is a design-led MBA, which, again, challenging kind of, I guess, traditional approaches and more innovative approaches.

[00:30:22] It was incredible. And I think the best thing about it was the 30 people who were selected for the program, they were all diverse thinkers. They were all looking for an alternative to a traditional MBA they wanted to build to the future. So I would say educate daily, find things that other people aren't reading, find things that other people aren't listening to. What matters most is having a point of view, and you can only shape that point of view

[00:30:52] if you hear that diversity of thought and you hear from all sides. Fantastic advice there. Absolutely love that. And we've covered a lot in our conversation today. You've probably got a lot of use cases, et cetera, and some of the case studies that we've discussed on your website, but it is a huge website. So anyone listening, they want to find out more information, maybe they want to connect with you. Where would you like to point everyone listening? So if everybody goes to WPP's website, www.wpp.com,

[00:31:22] you will be able to find out more about WPP and our view on creative transformation and our road to 2025. Excellent. Well, I'll have links to everything to make it nice and easy for people to find you and Wavemaker. And as I said, covered a lot there from driving applied innovation for global clients, the proven track record in digital transformation, proving that ROI and those measurable differences. And I think your 15 years of industry experience

[00:31:51] across such a broad spectrum is just amazing. Equally inspiring, of course, your advocacy for diversity and leadership in tech as well. We could talk for hours on this stuff, so it'd be great to get you back on maybe later in the year, see how things are evolving. But more than anything, thank you for sitting down with me today. Thank you so much, Neil. I really appreciate it. Wow. It is so cool to speak with a guest who loves what she does, passionate about what she does and making a difference. And I think

[00:32:20] as we wrap up today, big takeaway for me is that driving innovation isn't about adopting the latest technology. It's about solving real business challenges with practical, measurable solutions. And Sarah's insights remind us that successful innovation starts with understanding the audience, setting clear KPIs and staying focused to outcomes that matter. And her work, I think, demonstrates how

[00:32:49] cross-industry experience helps challenges assumptions and spark new ideas. While her advocacy for diversity in tech also highlights how inclusive leadership drives better products and market opportunities. And from immersive AR experiences to VR storytelling and the essential role of AI in personalization, Sarah's perspective on the future of brand engagement shows us that

[00:33:17] shows us how technology can create shared experiences, shared experiences that connect with consumers on a deeper level. But you've heard from me, you've heard from Sarah today. How do you see emerging technologies reshaping your approach to innovation and marketing? I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please, join the conversation, share your insights by emailing me techblogwriteratoutlook.com Instagram, LinkedIn, X, just at me or see Hughes.

[00:33:47] Nice and easy to find. This is one of those episodes I think I will remember a long time from now. It's one of those that really stand out and I think so engaging and so many interesting insights. So we will be getting Sarah back on the podcast later in the year. But before we do that, I've got another guest to prepare for to ensure it lands in your podcast feed. Thank you for listening as always and I will speak with you then.