What does it take for a country of 1.3 million people to build real momentum in the European space sector?
In this episode of Conversations From The Showfloor, recorded in Tallinn, I sit down with Madis Võõras, Head of the Estonian Space Office at Enterprise Estonia. We talk about how Estonia is earning its place in the space economy through software strength, targeted public investment, and partnerships that translate into contracts, credibility, and eventually commercial growth.
Madis explains the practical role his team plays as the connector between Estonian industry and the European Space Agency. A big part of the mission is making sure the money Estonia invests into ESA finds its way back into local companies through real projects. But he is clear that an ESA contract should never be the finish line, it should be proof you can deliver in a demanding environment, then take that capability to the wider market.
We dig into Estonia’s sweet spot and why software sits at the center of so many space programs now. Madis shares how Estonia’s digital public infrastructure became a reference point that ESA wanted to understand, study, and learn from. It is a reminder that “space” is often data, identity, trust, security, and systems that need to work flawlessly under pressure, not just rockets and hardware.
Madis also gets candid about the gaps. Estonia has hardware success stories like the camera company Crystalspace, but he wants deeper capability in electronics and manufacturing. He talks about the reality that international cooperation is often the fastest route to scale, and why smaller nations need to be smart about where they play, especially as European projects grow more complex and competitive.
There are some standout examples of how space investment can ripple into the real economy. Madis walks through Estonia’s Earth observation data distribution center and a space business incubator that has helped dozens of companies move from idea to jobs, revenue, and outside investment. He also shares a story about how early institutional contracts can change how investors see a company, even if that company later decides Earth-based markets move faster.
We end by looking forward. Madis sees AI as the biggest near-term driver of value, while staying cautious about hype around immature technologies. He also points to optical communications projects, including work aimed at connecting Tallinn and Helsinki, as a practical response to the new reality of infrastructure vulnerability.
If you want a grounded conversation about how space policy meets startup execution, and why ESA partnership works best as a catalyst for wider growth, this episode is for you. What should Estonia prioritize next to punch above its weight, and where do you see the biggest opportunities for software and AI in space services, and will you share your thoughts after listening?
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[00:00:02] Here in Tallinn at the Software Defined Space Conference, Estonia is often seen as a pioneer in digital governance and cyber security. But now they're applying that same ingenuity to space, the final frontier. Because my guest today is the Head of Estonian Space Office at Enterprise Estonia.
[00:00:26] And he's joining me on the show floor here at the event to talk about how the country is building influence and credibility in the European space sector. So I want to learn how he and his team are acting as an almost bridge between Estonian industry and the European Space Agency and how they're helping transform public investment into a real commercial opportunity.
[00:00:51] Today you can expect a story of ambition, collaboration and the long-term value of being part of a shared European vision for innovation. And yeah, we'll also talk about the international partnerships that are central to Estonia's space strategy and how the nation's digital first mindset is maybe giving it an edge.
[00:01:13] And also, hopefully we can learn what lessons other countries can learn from Estonia's pragmatic approach to building global relevance in space technology. But enough from me. Let me beam your ears all the way to the show floor here in Tallinn, Estonia, where we'll talk about all this and much more. So a massive warm welcome to the podcast. We're talking here in Tallinn in Estonia.
[00:01:42] Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? My name is Madis Voros. I'm working in Enterprise Estonia, which is a large public institution foundation to fund business development innovation in Estonia.
[00:01:57] And currently I'm heading Estonia, which is a small department in Enterprise Estonia, dealing with the space relations between, mostly between Estonian industry and European Space Agency.
[00:02:15] That's our main task to bring the money that the Estonian government is investing into European Space Agency budget back to Estonian industry. And we are quite successful in this business. My background is mechanical engineer. In addition to that, a couple of master degrees in business. And I have industrial background.
[00:03:12] Economic affairs and communications who will provide funding to ESA. And our task is bring this money back. But not only that, because I'm always explaining to our entrepreneurs that ESA contract can't be your prime target in space business.
[00:03:38] ESA contract is a way to open your capabilities to show your ability to do real business on the real market. Because ESA is an institutional market. That's different. But ESA is a good opportunity to enter. It is quite demanding.
[00:04:03] And obviously we're talking here today at the Software Defined Space Conference or SDSC. Now, it's dedicated to the critical realm of cybersecurity and software development in space. And one of the things that I've loved being here is many people listening around the world will think of space tech and space, of space tourism, maybe satellites, the kind of thing that we take for granted in our daily lives. But of course, space tech is so much bigger than that and so more exciting than that.
[00:04:32] So what do you love most about this event? You know, this event for me is like a family meeting because I can meet here so many relatives, so-called relatives, people who are involved in space business in Estonia and abroad. And I think this is the first benefit of this kind of conference.
[00:05:01] In addition, of course, the main topic, which is the software defined space conference. And I think that the title of the conference is very adequate because this conference is really a little bit, we can call it soft. It's not hardcore space technology. It's not hardcore rocket science.
[00:05:27] It's related to the policy, to the, yeah, of course, cybersecurity technology, which is very important to Estonia. But this conference has a quite large approach to the space issues. And this is, I think, what makes this conference quite unique. Obviously, we're talking here in Estonia. So how would you describe Estonia's current position within the European space ecosystem?
[00:05:56] And what is it that makes the approach here distinctive compared to maybe larger space faring nations? The answer is quite simple because our priority, let's say, in space business is software, really software.
[00:06:16] If we look at our portfolio of industries and projects with the space agency, European space agency, more than 50% are related to the software development. So ESA is keen to buy from Estonia software development for different purposes.
[00:06:43] And I need to say that we have been quite successful in this. In addition to that, ESA is keen to find how Estonian digital society works.
[00:06:59] So when we started business with ESA, they asked from us to come and make a seminar related to the Estonian e-government. We made this event. We organized this event. Then the next task was to find a person who can be hired by ESA as e-government expert.
[00:07:29] And this person is working in ESA now for six years. So I need to say that Estonian IT ability is quite good and recognized by ESA. But in addition to that, Estonian companies are doing hardware as well, but not too many.
[00:07:56] And I see that this is one of our problems. We should have more industries capable to do something related to hardware, electronics. We have a very good company who is producing cameras, crystal space. And this company has a market in the US and in all the world. So not only in ESA.
[00:08:23] And this is a quite good example how it should be. The first contract with ESA and then to the large, to the global market. Incredibly cool. And Estonia joined the European Space Agency relatively recently. So what have been the most meaningful outcomes of this collaboration so far, both from a country point of view and also the growing network of space companies that you're working with?
[00:08:51] You know, quite recently we acceded ESA convention officially 10 years ago. So this year we celebrated 10 years anniversary.
[00:09:03] And I need to say that the starting point, why we started to find how to cooperate with ESA was determined by our president of the parliament, who was by background astrophysicist, scientist.
[00:09:24] And she said that the only reason to join European Space Agency is not science, it's economical impact. And that is what we are looking for. Currently, during these 10 years, we have had more than 200 contracts, involved 50 companies.
[00:09:53] And to give an order of magnitude, it's around 40 million. It's not very big. It's not very big, but it's substantial for Estonia. But as I said, the membership in ESA is not the primary target. We should bring benefits of being a member in this respective club to the society as well.
[00:10:23] And honestly to say, we have here some positive examples as well. For example, we have established in Estonia Earth Observation Data Distribution Center, Esthub. Then we have established ESA Business Incubator Center, which has for now, we started 2017. And now we have incubated 35 companies.
[00:10:51] And it's incredible, good results because in total, by statistics of course, this incubator is reporting that the companies have created 80 full-time working places,
[00:11:14] acquired 50 million equity, and it shows that the right structure, right approach to provide for new companies, it will work.
[00:11:31] And of course, I need to say that, yeah, before our accession to ESA, Estonian first satellite was launched in 2013, S-Cube 1. And this S-Cube 1 was unbelievable, great impact to create new businesses.
[00:12:00] Around 80 people were involved, around 10 PhD theses and so on. So at least 10 companies created. So it was a big success story. It really is. And I think for many people listening, we will have people listening around the world, when they think about space technology, they often think of things like rockets and satellites, etc.
[00:12:26] So what are some of the less obvious areas where Estonia is making a real impact here? And a few of the things that I've learned is data analytics, software, material science example. But what would you say to people listening around the world to get them thinking bigger about space technology and the impact that you're having here at Estonia and what you're working on? On the space technology side, yes, I need to say that I can bring one example. Yeah.
[00:12:53] One example, which is very, very good example and a little bit a sad example as well, because this company is not any more active in the space. But in Estonia, in 2011, a company called Skeleton Technologies, which is developing supercapacitors,
[00:13:22] got the first quite small ESA contract. And resulting this small ESA contract, they got credibility by investors. And investors started to believe that this could be a serious thing. And for now, this company is one of Estonian largest, not any more startups, but largest high-tech technologies
[00:13:50] with subsidiaries in Germany, France, and so on, acquiring hundreds of millions equity. But what is the sad story? The sad story is that they had all together four ESA projects. And then when we asked them to proceed with the fifth, then they said that, yeah, this is too time-consuming.
[00:14:16] We have on-Earth business more beneficial. What a great story. And the thing with Estonia, you've had a long tradition of unicorn startups as well for a small nation of, what, 1.3, 1.4 million. Why is that? Why is technology, was it such a hotbed of technology here? I think we have been quite good learners. We started to look what is happening in the world.
[00:14:47] And for example, I had a chance to visit Silicon Valley a long time before space. Many times we had a representative office in Silicon Valley. And I think we brought on the right time the way of thinking to Estonia. And of course, we are quite liberal related to the experts to bring them here.
[00:15:14] And Estonia environment is quite friendly. And at the same time, all the ICT technology, it works. Yeah. It works flawlessly. So you can develop your great idea to the unicorn. Why not? Based on Estonia. But then, of course, if the idea is really big, you can move out from Estonia, for example.
[00:15:43] A couple of weeks ago, I visited Bydrive. Bydrive is long. Anymore Estonian company. Yeah. It has altogether 800 people. But the main office is still in, the main software development and main office is still in Estonia. And yeah, you can ask why they started,
[00:16:12] they succeeded in Estonia. It's, maybe the environment is really so positive. Yeah. But of course, yes, we have plenty of unicorns, but we have plenty of not so successful stories as well. And to show you an example, the person who started Bydrive tried to create, before Bydrive,
[00:16:41] a new platform, so-called Bet and Talks Facebook, but didn't succeed. And not a long time after that, he finds that there is a need for good selling software. Yeah. And honestly, to say, I don't understand why Bydrive is so successful in the world, but honestly, they find some
[00:17:10] real need. They provided a service that is needed on the market. Not too complicated, but effective. Another great story. And investing in space can be a bold move for a small nation. So what is it that drives Estonia's commitment to space innovation? And how do you justify that kind of investment in terms of economic and society value? Yeah. If you're talking about
[00:17:40] space investment, we are talking about the public investment at first. And honestly to say, the public investment is not too much, too large. We started with a quite small amount in the European space engines. Now it's around 10 million per year. Germany and France are putting 1 billion, even more. But we have succeeded to bring this money back and
[00:18:11] as I said, the benefit for society is really as resulting in economy as business outside of ESA. I can bring you an example. There is a Earth Observation company who is has developed a service how to
[00:18:41] find out illegal real estate developments in different municipalities. This is the first contract they had with the space agency and then they created the service without government support and now they are on the European market. Wow. And I think international
[00:19:10] cooperation has always been a cornerstone of space exploration. So from your perspective, what makes collaboration so critical for countries like Estonia that are building their capabilities in this field? Because it's incredibly cool what you're doing here, but tell me more about that and the partnerships and the collaboration. Yeah, it's in principle you know this quite complicated issue and I need to say that one
[00:19:40] positive side of the European Space Agency in comparison to the European Union is that in the European Space Agency you can have your solo project with the agency related to the European Union you need to have a cooperative project to create consortia it's always complicated but of course in the
[00:20:10] frame of European Space Agency is in the frame of European Union and why not even larger you can't work without cooperation so for example two weeks ago we visited ISC International Astronomical Congress in Sydney and we had quite interesting talks with American companies now the next meeting
[00:20:38] is coming soon so they see in Estonia the large American private company space company they see in Estonia some potential interest space of course the business can't be between Estonian government and this large American
[00:21:08] company it has to be between Estonian business entity and business entities in Europe and in the world and yes we have in Estonia space strategy space strategy 2020 2027 and in this space strategy we have KPIs as always needed and one of the KPIs is
[00:21:36] how many contracts Estonian entities have had with LSI large system integrators so I can report to you that a couple weeks ago Estonian artificial intelligent services providing company has concluded in the frame of ESA contracts an agreement to
[00:22:06] implement artificial intelligent tool for this large system integrator who is developing satellites so I can't go to the details but yeah this is quite a landmark for us I do love a good teaser but I will double click on that a little bit how are Estonian startups and research institutions how are they contributing to that broader European space agenda
[00:22:36] that we're seeing and what kind of partnerships are proving most effective and again you don't have to give me any names but any other partnerships or how these partnerships are proving to be effective yes we have of
[00:23:12] earth earth observation platform for example this real practical example but what honestly to say is our problem is that European Union space projects are the first condition is that there can't be no solo projects so you have to be a partner of the consortia and the problem is that those
[00:23:41] projects are they are flying over our heads so they are too large the role of Estonian entity is not attractive to them so we have some examples but not too many and that's of course the sad story because European Union has big ambitions in space and we need to do more in this field as well
[00:24:11] and speaking of doing more as technologies like AI advance communications maybe even quantum computing further on down the road as all these technologies continue to evolve maybe even converge how do you see these technologies influencing Estonia's future ambitions in space yes I think that AI has the most potential here and as I said we have one example where really AI tool
[00:24:41] is used by the LSI related to the quantum computing and all those quantum communication issues I'm a little bit skeptical because the technology is not mature and you can put a lot of money to this but what we have to try before quantum is the optical communication
[00:25:10] and optical communication not between the satellites not between the earth-based station and satellite but between Tallinn and Helsinki for example because the reason is very obvious the optical cables optical fiber cables on the seabed are disrupted for some
[00:25:40] reason why nobody knows there's a whole other episode right there yes and yes we have really started a project to test optical communication between Tallinn and Helsinki because the technology is there but of course it's dependent from many factors to find out but yeah exciting and if we were to look even further ahead maybe the next decade what
[00:26:09] was your personal vision for Estonia's role in the global space economy and how can international partnerships maybe partnerships of potential partners that could be listening to our conversation today how can they help turn this vision into a reality and play a part you know there is always a chance to have a good cooperation and the one members of the European Space Agency because then we can have a
[00:26:39] common project funded via ESA and this is the simplest way to proceed to start with something and yeah a month ago we had a great visitor here in Estonia the delegation of UK Space Agency and many ideas on the table oh it sounds like we need to get you back on next year
[00:27:09] maybe but before I let you go for obviously you head up Estonian Space Office and at Enterprise Estonia for anyone listening wanting to dig a little bit deeper contact you or your team is there anywhere you'd like to point them at all for people listening that just want to find out more information yes I need to say that we have to improve how
[00:27:50] many things will be elaborated and brought to the people I need to say next year yeah because the current situation is not so good as we want but the conditions are very good because we have an entity called Dunnors Space Office in the frame
[00:28:20] name Space Estonia which is simple understandable and we started to use this brand name quite recently so good news are coming awesome well I'll also include a link to your LinkedIn page just for anyone listening that wants to carry on the conversation but just thank you
[00:28:50] competitiveness and driving technological advancement thanks for joining me today thank you and I think that in principle space is one environment technologically quite demanding not very far from here 100 kilometers above as I'm always explaining but it can provide quite unique
[00:29:19] ways to develop innovative ideas new technologies and of course space is inspiring and we try to use all the benefits that space can bring I think Estonia's space ambitions are not just about size but they're about strategy by focusing on software data digital infrastructure I think the country has carved out a distinct and credible role in
[00:29:49] and through partnerships with the European Space Agency and close cooperation with other nations Estonia is showing how collaboration can amplify innovation far beyond what national budgets alone could achieve and my guest today reminded us that space is not just
[00:30:19] observation to optical communications and cross border data collaboration Estonia is proving that space innovation can flourish anywhere that curiosity meets capability so as we wrap up this special edition of Tech Talks Daily from Tallinn Estonia over to you love to hear your thoughts on this how do you see smaller nations shaping the next decade of space technology and cooperation please
[00:30:49] I invite you to share your views and join the conversation by visiting the website techtalksnetwork.com techblogwriter at outlook.com or connect with me on LinkedIn x Instagram just at Neil C Hughes keep your messages coming in and I'm going to see if there's one more interview I can get here before I get the plane home thanks for listening as always speak to you