2805: Digital Intimacy: Building Brand Loyalty in an App-Driven World

[00:00:00] Have you ever wondered how your favourite apps on your smartphone know exactly what you want? Well, today on Tech Talks Daily we're going to dive into the fascinating world of mobile consumer preferences and the delicate art of building brand relationships.

[00:00:17] Joining me today is the Chief Strategy and Marketing Officer at Airship, the mobile app experience company that's redefining how brands engage with consumers. And Airship also recently released a comprehensive study covering 10 countries and 11,000 participants revealing some pretty eye-opening stats into what actually drives us as consumers to engage

[00:00:42] with and use those mobile apps. Whether it be from the ease of use to the lure of personalised interactions, I want to explore how brands are not just selling products but crafting experiences using technology. Experiences that resonate with us in our daily lives.

[00:01:01] So how do brands create these engaging app experiences without crossing the line into being intrusive? Now before we get today's guest on, it's time to give the sponsors of Tech Talks Daily

[00:01:12] a big shout out because as you know, on this podcast every single day I aim to demystify technology and share stories of how businesses are solving real-world problems in business, our life and even world.

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[00:02:20] Let's get Tom, our guest today, onto the podcast to talk about all this and much more. So a massive warm welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? Sure, hi.

[00:02:34] So my name is Tom Buda and I am the Chief Strategy and Marketing Officer for Airship. Airship is a mobile app experience platform that helps brands optimize the value that they provide for and capture from mobile customers.

[00:02:54] And we do that by helping them navigate this sort of unified experience inside and outside the mobile app. Well it's a pleasure to have you join me on the podcast today. There's so many different things that put you on my tech radar, set off my tech spidey

[00:03:10] senses and the first was, I think it was an Airship survey that recently indicated that I think it was 77% of UK consumers alone are willing to share their interests with brands for personalizing interactions.

[00:03:23] So I've got to ask, just to set the scene for our conversation today, how do you think this willingness to share personal data is reshaping the strategies that brands use to engage with their customers? Well I think it's twofold.

[00:03:36] The good news is that after surveying, you know, these 11,000 people of which we did a deep dive into the UK respondents themselves, we see that people actually are willing to share a lot. But the brands need to understand that not all information is necessarily shared.

[00:03:55] People are most willing to share things like their interests relevant to a brand or how they want to be communicated with and where and how often. Or, sure, if I've browsed certain items on your app or on your website, sure, send me more that look like those things.

[00:04:19] Those are the kind of things people are willing to share which is super valuable. But the things that people are least likely to share are much of what underpins the digital advertising industry today.

[00:04:31] You know, the idea of third-party data is obviously going away and people get a little bit freaked out and I think they use the word it feels creepy when you start inferring things about me based upon what you may have found out in some random way. 100% with you.

[00:04:55] And there was also a counter stat to that I read in this survey. The first, of course, we just mentioned 77% of consumers are willing to share their interest with brands for personalized interactions. But if we compare that with 42% actually prioritize ease of use in their app interaction.

[00:05:12] So I'm curious, how do brands balance that need for simplicity and user experience with that desire for personalized deals and rewards? It seems like quite a very fine balancing act. Absolutely. So the overarching perspective that people have is about the app in particular is it simplifies my life.

[00:05:34] We often use the phrase, you know, life gets better with better app experiences. And I think you probably, I mean, you, we, you know, we're, I would expect heavy users of apps.

[00:05:46] I mean, we live on our phones all day, often within apps that are central to our lives. They could be news apps, they could be, you know, entertainment apps, they could be sports apps, they could be finance apps, they could be retail apps and on.

[00:06:04] And so to the degree that this little device, the phone within which we have these micro apps, to the degree that they can help us save time, they can help us do things easily, which simplify their lives, then those, those are the values that people, that people are

[00:06:24] looking for. And I think it's frankly one of the advantages of brands needing to focus on the app, the mobile app customer. One of the things that we see in a lot of the earnings calls is, you know, these companies

[00:06:40] sort of touting the unique value of their digital business, their mobile app customers relative to all others. There have been many companies that have been quoting value that's like three to four times that of all other customers for their mobile app customers.

[00:06:59] That's a huge, you know, in, in these times of, you know, relative uncertainty economically, you know, around the globe, you know, that's a huge place to lean into, but, you know, you have to do so carefully.

[00:07:13] And I would say there's, you know, there's always this rush to just push out all of this information and expect something to stick. But that's really about, that's not really about mining or minding that customer relationship.

[00:07:31] If you able, if you're able to think about it from that perspective, you realize that if you have this, I would call it respectful interaction, it becomes with the mobile app customer, it becomes a very interesting value exchange for everybody.

[00:07:51] You know, it's give to get, and people are willing to give a lot if they're going to receive something of value that they perceive is of value. And before we started recording our podcast conversation today, we were talking about the different tech conferences that we both attend.

[00:08:07] And I suspect that we have both downloaded more than a few event apps only to delete them on the plane ride home. So I'm not too surprised at 49% of consumers might delete an app after just a few uses.

[00:08:18] So what strategies do you recommend that brands take to make a stronger and lasting impression quickly and overcome that app fatigue that we often hear about? Well first and second impressions are absolutely critical. You know, think about it.

[00:08:34] You have discovered right an app, whether it's in the app store, you know, through some through a search or it's through a QR code that is in an ad. So you download the app. That next experience is critical and so many companies get it wrong.

[00:08:57] They ask way too much stuff. They ask, they don't provide a very easy way to people understand. Oh, I see. Here's what this is about and here's why this makes sense for me to, you know, engage. So those first and second impressions are really critical.

[00:09:16] I mean the reality is that companies spend tons of money to get people to download the app. Why? Because there's good stuff in the app and the app customers are worth much more than all other customers.

[00:09:33] And something else we've got to mention of course is personal data and notification opt-ins. Yes, they're crucial for personalized marketing, but there's also a very fine line between being helpful and intrusive and confession time here.

[00:09:46] I do have a slightly OCD side when it comes to my tech where I just don't want to see any notification numbers against my apps. And if I keep doing it, they either get muted or removed. I know not everyone's like this.

[00:09:57] I've seen some people with their inbox at the bottom saying something like 12,300 emails. I don't know how they get through the day. But seriously, how does Airship advise brands to navigate this delicate balance of personal data and notification opt-ins?

[00:10:13] Well first of all, we help provide things like a preference center that brands can insert into their app experience. And the preference center establishes right from the start that the customer is in control. And I think that's what you want.

[00:10:31] You want people to feel like they're in control of the data that they are willing to provide. And they're also in control, as I said before, about how, where and when they want to be communicated with.

[00:10:47] You clearly don't want to be bombarded with these notifications about things because they're interruptive and they feel maybe a little bit creepy. Other people actually might want to receive these notifications or SMS messages about things that are important, that they determine are important.

[00:11:07] Some people may opt out of email. Some people may prefer to have email, but only email that is, I don't know, confirmation of a transaction or of a change versus promotional email.

[00:11:22] So if you provide the ability for the customer to feel like they're in control of their data, then I think you have a good chance of winning. And there are so many changing trends in consumer behavior right now.

[00:11:37] In fact, just picking up a telephone or a smartphone now is also almost a social minefield because some people in your contacts want to text only. Some people want to send audio messages only. Some want to make calls only.

[00:11:51] Some would never speak to you on the phone, don't want to take calls at all on that phone. And your survey highlights evolving trends in so many different consumer preferences and behaviors, but I'm curious, what are some of the most surprising or unexpected trends that you've observed recently?

[00:12:06] So I think one of them is you would think that people would value a deal, discounts more than anything else. That's not the case. They actually favor convenience over deals and loyalty rewards. And that's in spite of the fact that cost of living costs are increasing, et cetera.

[00:12:34] I think that's one of the most surprising statistics. Again, that idea of ease of use, saving me time, making it convenient. And yes, okay, if I'm willing to give you information, you're respectful of that information,

[00:12:54] you're using that information to personalize my experience in ways that I find valuable, then yes, of course, I will gladly welcome discounts or loyalty rewards for being loyal. But you have to get through that kind of respectful stage before you can get to that point.

[00:13:19] And I suspect you would have set up a few light bulb moments in people listening all around the world. So whether it be a brand or business leader that might be thinking, hey, maybe we should

[00:13:29] be doing more in this area, listening to our conversation earlier, you did mention the importance of establishing respect and reward in those early stages of an app usage and how crucial they are. And there's so many businesses and brands get that wrong.

[00:13:42] So can you elaborate on some of the strategies that you've seen successful brands adopting to foster those long-term relationships with their users? Sure. I think there's fundamentals and I would classify them into three steps, if you will.

[00:13:57] First of all, you have to show your customers that you know them, that you literally know who they are and then also respect them. The second is there are usually key moments in an experience that you have to be attuned to.

[00:14:15] And those are key moments that are of value to the customer and potentially of value to the brand. And you have to be able to understand what those moments are and frankly, be able to engage during those moments.

[00:14:33] Forrester has done a lot of research about moments that matter. And it's true. That you think about it, it's like, oh, that was one of those moments when it really went sideways when it really shouldn't have.

[00:14:47] And the third is you need to be able to connect all of your customer data to your mobile data. Mobile data is incredibly rich. What's fascinating about the mobile app is that we are authenticated, right? The brand knows who you are because we've self-identified, we're authenticated.

[00:15:11] There's very little security challenges with apps. That makes it a very unique place. You go into a store, people don't know who you are. You may actually be this incredibly loyal customer, but the folks working in the store

[00:15:25] don't necessarily know who you are until you actually demonstrate through your app that you want to tie into your, I don't know, call it rewards points or what have you. So those are some of the keys. If you don't know who your customers are, you can't personalize experiences.

[00:15:45] At the end of the day, that's really what matters. Yeah, and I love that line about moments that matter. So true. And just to hammer home some of the points that we're making here, can you just expand

[00:15:55] on just how critical that mobile app experience is in ultimately building and maintaining brand loyalty in today's digital landscape where we carry our whole lives around on a map phone? Well, we literally do.

[00:16:08] I mean, people are, you know, we're using apps on the go, we're using apps at home. What's an increasing trend? Probably the one that has increased the most is that we're using the app in the store. So this melding of physical and digital is very interesting.

[00:16:29] In the US, Home Depot actually advertises a commercial which is literally about the app experience. They show somebody getting out of their vehicle, looking at their app, identifying the items that they want to shop for, where those items are in this giant big box.

[00:16:52] And they can set up their shopping cart and how they want to transact that all within the app. And it's just made what prior to that was a little bit of a frustrating experience, but again, it just made it a lot simpler.

[00:17:10] One of the things that we are seeing in the US at least is that mobile commerce has now outpaced desktop commerce for the first time over the 2023 kind of holiday season, cyber week period, that critical sort of shopping period.

[00:17:31] So again, mobile commerce has outpaced desktop commerce for the first time. And as I mentioned before, in the UK, using the retailer's app while shopping in that physical store grew 10% year over year, which was the third fastest growth stat.

[00:17:50] And it was only in comparison to comparing prices or using loyalty cards that grew even faster. So this is a big trend. It's not like your app is a discreet vehicle, as you pointed out earlier. We carry our phone around everywhere.

[00:18:07] I think actually people would be much more frustrated of having somehow forgotten their phone at home than literally forgetting their keys. I read another stat recently and it was a survey asking people, would they sooner have

[00:18:22] somebody, a friend or anybody spend 10 minutes in their home unattended, free to sit there and have a coffee and make themselves at home or 10 minutes unsupervised on their phone? Of course, nobody said their phone, right? Because it's just that much information on there.

[00:18:38] And time appears to be going so quickly right now, especially as we race into February 24. Maybe it's my age, I'm not sure. But as we look ahead, how do you envision the future of mobile engagement evolving

[00:18:49] and what role do you see Airship playing in this future as well as it's evolving before our eyes? Well, I think we're going to see companies adopt an experimentation mindset. I think that's something frankly that needs to fundamentally happen regardless.

[00:19:06] But given all of the optionality that people have, you can't place all of your bets on one way. We have the facility now to very easily and quickly optimize initiatives that fuel customer understanding.

[00:19:24] We get to ask customers to share their data that's going to change over time, what they consider to be contextual or valuable or simple. And it's a great way to innovate. So and especially when our expectations are usually based upon our last great experience

[00:19:45] which can come from anything. So a continuous optimization mindset is going to be super important. And I would say that the last thing is you have to think about how you can adopt AI, especially Gen AI, to scale what's possible when it comes to customer interactions.

[00:20:07] So a lot of, I would call them marketing teams or potentially using to drum up all kinds of variables in terms of content, right? It could be endless. In order to actually make that most effective though, you need to be able to have the right

[00:20:23] goals in place because without the right goals in place, you can't really train AI to get you the best result. So you have to kind of start with the outcome or the end in mind before you can have AI

[00:20:39] help create those variability options that will help you determine what's best. And so you asked about Airship, you know, we are, I mean our mission basically is to help brands capture more and continuously more customer value inside and outside of the app.

[00:21:01] We provide a software platform that is really an end-to-end solution for capturing value across the entire customer lifecycle from discovery and acquisition to that critical activation phase and onboarding to then driving engagement that ultimately feeds loyalty. And so we have all kinds of solutions across that lifecycle.

[00:21:29] One of the things, if I might, going back to something you've highlighted before is you talked about those critical moments. It's often frustrating for the teams, the product teams, the marketing teams, it's often frustrating for them to be reliant on the very scarce development resources to actually

[00:21:52] do things that they know need to be done and need to be done now. And we have created this no-code native experience editor that enables non-technical people to literally create and change how, you know, it could be messages, it could be surveys,

[00:22:14] it could be scenes, it could be stories, it could be lots of different things that are in reaction to what they're seeing as a growing trend. They can make that happen quickly and in fact they can create lots of variations of this

[00:22:27] experimentation sense because they have the control to do it. And most importantly, they have the experience to do it. They have the capability of doing it in a native way which means that we as consumers

[00:22:45] are no longer taken literally out of the app when you click on something and taken to an HTML effectively a landing page that feels completely different from when you were just in the app. You're like, wait, where are you taking me?

[00:23:01] And the importance of the data that comes from all of those interactions gets lost because you're in this completely different environment that's disconnected. So again, we're trying to help companies facilitate more, engage better, more personalized, test and do so in this native way.

[00:23:22] And I think that is a powerful moment to end on. And when I release this episode, I will have a blog post associated with it when I promote it. So is it a video or anything I can add to that just to bring to life everything you've

[00:23:33] just talked about? I'd love to do that. Well, I'll ask you to leave the information in a moment. But before I do, I always like to end every episode and have a little fun with my guests, find out a little more about them.

[00:23:44] Now, you've had a hugely successful career. You've been traveling around the world at tech conferences and things. I've got to ask, can you share the funniest or most interesting story that's happened in your career? Because I suspect you picked up a few stories along the way, right?

[00:23:58] I have. The one that comes to mind is actually one that happened very early in my career. So I was in the training program at the global advertising agency called Young and Rubicam. And at the time, they were the largest in the world.

[00:24:13] And we were also the first to build out the entire ecosystem of marketing services. It wasn't just advertising, it was public relations, it was design, it was direct marketing, et cetera. I was in a training program and we basically were selected out of hundreds of people who

[00:24:36] are standing right behind you and equally as qualified to begin a career. And the company invested a lot in our growth. So the opportunity was to get promoted relatively quickly, which was enabling you to move up

[00:24:53] and go from this rather baseline to actually starting to earn respectful amounts of money. So I was fortunate to have been promoted three times in three years. That third time, I was promoted alongside someone else who was promoted to be effectively my boss.

[00:25:16] And so we were both promoted at the same time. He clearly more advanced in his career than me. He was a very different personality than the typical employee. And he was into music, he was into plays, he sang opera, he had a deep booming voice,

[00:25:38] and he was also wicked smart. Whereas most of the people there tended to be like, oh, I'm going for a run or I'm going to go play tennis or golf or I'm going to go out and have fun. He was very different.

[00:25:52] So it's a really interesting experience of working with a very different personality, but someone who is insanely bright. So this one moment occurred that I'll never forget. So I went into his office one day, knocked on the door. I said, you have a minute?

[00:26:07] And he said, yeah, come on in. And I start blabbing on about something and he puts his big hand up and I went, oh, and he said, sorry, let me just ask a question.

[00:26:19] I said, okay, are you sharing this information because you need help in making a decision or are you just venting? And it stopped me and I thought to myself, I guess I'm just venting. He said, and I said, yeah, I guess I'm just venting.

[00:26:37] He said, good, because you're fully capable of making this decision on your own, but yeah, go ahead. And off I went blabbing away. But it just paused me to think, stop and think ahead. There may be things that are frustrating, but once you get through that emotion, so

[00:26:56] what is it that you can do about it? And I often convey that story to people that both I manage as well as people that I work with. And that's how we net it out is like, if you're venting, yeah, go on.

[00:27:13] If you need help making a decision, do you really need help? So it was a great learning experience. What an amazing story. I absolutely love it. Do you still keep in touch with this person? Are you following their career or what happened to them?

[00:27:28] Yeah, unfortunately, unfortunately he passed away actually, sadly, but he left an indelible mark on me. Absolutely. I think about him a lot. His name is Mark Arnold. May he rest in peace. So sorry. It makes up story even more powerful.

[00:27:45] So thank you for sharing that with me today. We also covered so much from your survey to how you're helping your businesses. And I believe you've also have your own podcast. So can you tell me a little bit about the podcast and also where anybody listening,

[00:27:58] where you'd like to point them to? Sure. Well, first of all, you can find most anything you may be interested in on airship.com. We have a very active blog. We have a lot of content that we've created. The survey data is in there. We have benchmarking data.

[00:28:14] We have lots of point of view pieces about various things. So that would be useful to go to, but the podcast is called Masters of Max and it's where guests share their strategies, advice, and their hard lessons that they've learned.

[00:28:30] And we hope that it helps to both inspire and ignite others on their own journey to, you know, doing the kinds of things we talked about here, which is to do right by all of us consumers and thereby get, you know, get and create more value for us.

[00:28:46] And therefore we provide more value. So it's available on all the usual podcast platforms and it's a lot of fun. I enjoy because I talk to a variety of people in a variety of roles.

[00:28:59] We have a guest that's of a podcast that just airing right now, who is a global design leader for Sam's Club. And it's the notion of design thinking and thinking about this discipline of design thinking

[00:29:16] as it relates to the customer experience at every single touch point, including the experiences that store staff or customers service reps have as well. It's fascinating to think about that in that holistic way. So that's an example of the kind of a guest that we'll have.

[00:29:40] I had somebody else who is literally an icon in the entertainment and media industry who knows everybody and is often on stage chatting with these like very well-known celebrities and media moguls.

[00:29:56] And we had a great chat about, you know, what the CEO doesn't know about a CMO and what they should. So we have really interesting guests that I like you. I learn a lot in the process of having these conversations. Yeah, that's the beauty of recording these.

[00:30:13] And what I will do on the blog post associated with this episode, I'll include all those links, including how listeners can connect with you on LinkedIn, but I'll also embed your favorite episode or an episode that we mentioned today into that blog post so people

[00:30:26] can check out your show too. And we covered so much from some of those big stats that 77% of UK consumers would share interest with brands for personalized interactions and special incentives, but also that staggering

[00:30:39] 49% of consumers that make the decision to delete an app just after just a few uses. But it's not just about deals and loyalty rewards. The top reasons customers keep coming back are things like ease of use.

[00:30:52] It simplifies my life and it saves me money and convenience is everything. It sounds so simple when we talk about it on a podcast, but we've both seen so many brands get it wrong. But just a big thank you for shining a light on this today. Thanks again.

[00:31:05] It's my pleasure. Thank you, Neil, for having me. So as we wrap up today's conversation with Tom, I think we're left with a deeper understanding of that delicate balance between personalization and privacy in the mobile app world.

[00:31:18] But a big thank you to Tom for also sharing how an experimentation mindset and the use of AI can actually scale personalized interactions, making apps not just a tool, but something that's part of our daily lives. But here's a question for everyone listening.

[00:31:33] In an age where apps are becoming more intuitive, more personalized, how willing are you to share that tailor-made, how much are you willing to share for that tailor-made experience? Where would you draw that line on privacy?

[00:31:47] As I said at the beginning, I'm less about the privacy and more about those intrusive notifications that keep me distracted, keep me reaching for my phone and have that annoying number of seven notifications next to a particular app. But that's just me.

[00:32:01] I know most people are not like that. I'm a bit of a stranger on where things like that are concerned. But another standout stat for me in the interview there is how 77% of UK consumers in that survey are open to sharing their interest for personalized interactions.

[00:32:16] I would say I'm like that too. I'm a Derby County football fan. If you're going to give me personalized interactions around that and the interest I've got, the music that I like, I'd be up for that. But what about you?

[00:32:27] As always, email me techblogwriteratoutlook.com, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram. Connect with me at Neil C. Hughes. But don't just hit follow or connect. Send me a quick message. Tell me what you thought of today's episode. And remember, technology is not just about the tools that we use.

[00:32:42] It's about the stories they tell, the experiences they create. So until next time, keep teching, keep talking, and I'll meet you back in your podcast for Heat Bright and Early tomorrow morning. Hopefully you'll join me then.