Are we doing enough to protect our healthcare systems from cyber threats? In this compelling episode of Tech Talks Daily, I sit down with Tim Mackey, Head of Software Supply Chain Risk Strategy at Synopsys, to unravel the complexities of cybersecurity in the healthcare sector.
The healthcare industry has become the prime target for cyber-attacks, with more incidents than any other sector. Through hacking, supply chain attacks, phishing, and ransomware, cybercriminals exploit the vulnerabilities of healthcare systems, endangering patient safety and compromising sensitive data.
Tim Mackey sheds light on why healthcare organizations are in the crosshairs of cybercriminals and how the intrinsic value of patient data makes it a lucrative target. With healthcare facilities often prioritizing patient care over IT security, the episode delves into the consequences of this underinvestment and the increasing risk it poses to patient safety and privacy.
The discussion pivots to the multifaceted approach required to bolster defenses against such threats. Mackey emphasizes the importance of adopting a zero-trust network framework, conducting thorough cybersecurity reviews of vendors and medical device manufacturers, and the need for continuous improvement in cybersecurity practices to counter evolving threats.
But what does the future hold? As governments scramble to enforce new cybersecurity standards, is it enough to stem the tide of cyber-attacks on healthcare systems? Join us as we explore the balance between patient care priorities and the imperative to secure sensitive health data against a growing cyber threat landscape.
As the episode concludes, we're left pondering: How can healthcare organizations better prepare for and mitigate the impact of cyber threats without compromising patient care? Please share your thoughts and insights as we navigate these critical challenges together.
[00:00:00] In today's digital age, cybersecurity has merged as a pivotal background, especially
[00:00:08] within the healthcare sector where the stakes are unimaginably high.
[00:00:14] And with an alarming increase in cyber attacks, threatening the very fabric of patient care
[00:00:19] and safety, governments worldwide are being forced to re-evaluate and strengthen their cybersecurity
[00:00:26] standards.
[00:00:27] And joining me today is Tim McKay, head of software supply chain risk strategy at Synopsys,
[00:00:34] and they are a leading voice in the conversation about safeguarding our health systems against
[00:00:39] digital threats.
[00:00:40] So as we navigate through the complexities of cyber vulnerabilities, Tim's going to bring
[00:00:46] with him today a wealth of knowledge on the pressing need for robust cyber security measures
[00:00:51] and also the evolving landscape of cyber threats and innovative strategies to mitigate some
[00:00:57] of those risks.
[00:00:59] So today we're going to delve into the critical intersection of technology and healthcare and cybersecurity.
[00:01:06] And where the protection of sensitive patient data
[00:01:09] is not just a matter of privacy,
[00:01:11] but actually a cornerstone of patient safety.
[00:01:14] Before we get today's guests on now,
[00:01:16] I need to give a quick shout out and a thank you
[00:01:18] to the sponsors of Tech Talks Daily this month.
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[00:02:03] data management. But now it's time to get on with the show
[00:02:06] and invite today's guests on.
[00:02:08] So buckle up and hold on tight.
[00:02:10] As I beam your ears all the way to Boston, Massachusetts,
[00:02:14] where Tim is waiting to join us today.
[00:02:18] So a massive warm welcome to the show, Tim.
[00:02:21] Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are
[00:02:24] and what you do?
[00:02:25] So I have the glorious title of being head of software supply chain risk strategy for synopsis and
[00:02:33] synopsis is a rather large company that includes everything from
[00:02:37] electronic design for chips all the way through to cybersecurity
[00:02:42] And I am in that cybersecurity business unit.
[00:02:45] I've been effectively in this role
[00:02:48] for almost two years at this point
[00:02:50] and been seven years with the company.
[00:02:53] So it's a very diverse role that involves everything
[00:02:57] from regulatory all the way down
[00:02:59] into individual practices within IT organizations
[00:03:04] or within development organizations.
[00:03:06] A question I've got to ask is someone right in the heart of cyber attacks is whenever
[00:03:11] you hear about cyber attacks, which organizations, when, which industry is most impacted, it
[00:03:18] always seems from all the headlines that I see that the healthcare sector is always facing
[00:03:22] an unprecedented number of cyber attacks.
[00:03:25] Can you elaborate on why this sector in particular is so vulnerable compared to others like governments
[00:03:31] or IT or corporate IT, etc.?
[00:03:35] So it fundamentally boils down to two things, the value of the attack itself, because for practical purposes, today, we're talking about cyber business,
[00:03:47] cyber criminal activities. What are the possible business monetization strategies that a cyber
[00:03:54] attacker might have? And when you look at the healthcare industry as a whole, one of the big
[00:04:01] things that jumps out at you is that if given, say, the proverbial 10 million
[00:04:05] pounds to spend on something, the trusts, the hospital systems, everyone will immediately
[00:04:13] say you should spend that on patient care.
[00:04:16] And patient care means maybe more physicians, better equipment, that sort of thing. And the cybersecurity effectively becomes a next tier
[00:04:28] type of investment. And when you factor in the value of the data that someone gets as a result
[00:04:34] of the whatever style of attack that they might be perpetrating, you end up in a situation where where that data is incredibly personal and can be used in ways that could potentially
[00:04:48] target the population at large.
[00:04:51] And I'd love to double click on that a little bit and explore a little bit more about the
[00:04:57] details behind it.
[00:04:58] So I'm curious, what would you say are the most common types of cyber threats facing
[00:05:02] healthcare today, such as hacking and ransomware.
[00:05:06] And why are they so effective against healthcare systems? Is it much more than you just mentioned
[00:05:12] there about that funding issue? Or is it something else?
[00:05:16] So hacking and ransomware, there's fundamentally just variations on a theme. And so if I put on my hacker hat and I want to go and compromise a system,
[00:05:27] I don't necessarily know all of the details, but potentially someone else does. So if there's been
[00:05:35] a criminal organization that has gotten into an environment beforehand, and they really just went
[00:05:42] and took a look at, okay, this is the type of operating systems,
[00:05:45] this is the type of software,
[00:05:46] this is the type of equipment that was on
[00:05:49] the other side of the attack.
[00:05:50] For them, they might take a relatively low risk strategy
[00:05:54] and simply document what they found
[00:05:57] and then sell it to the highest bidder,
[00:05:58] who's now the next level person, next level person,
[00:06:01] and so forth until you end up with,
[00:06:04] effectively, a almost
[00:06:06] supply chain, if you will, of attack information that can then be put to best effect once something
[00:06:13] like a ransomware attack or a high value, high dollar impact, high patient safety impact
[00:06:20] activity occurs.
[00:06:22] And of course, we are living in a period of global conflict
[00:06:25] right now and potential state sponsored attackers.
[00:06:30] And a lot of people are probably maybe even blissfully unaware
[00:06:33] of the dangers on the critical infrastructure
[00:06:36] like healthcare.
[00:06:37] So how do these cyber attacks directly impact things like
[00:06:40] patient safety, patient care?
[00:06:42] Because again, it's something that I don't
[00:06:45] think many people are that aware of. So are there any examples of the consequences of such
[00:06:50] breaches just to bring what we're talking about to life here?
[00:06:54] So one that always jumps to mind is from Germany several years back where they were unable to accept emergency patients simply because the hospital's
[00:07:07] record system and scheduling systems were down as a result of a ransomware attack.
[00:07:14] And that's a relatively simple connection that the average person can make that if they walk into
[00:07:20] an environment and they find that, well, as most things today, highly computerized
[00:07:25] systems, they can't go and alert a triage nurse to go and perform the analysis.
[00:07:32] They can't begin to create a patient record.
[00:07:36] So they're operating truly in an acute emergency scenario only where it's very obvious that
[00:07:43] this patient needs a specific type of care,
[00:07:45] for example, as a result of trauma. But they don't necessarily have all of the backstop
[00:07:51] of information to provide the most appropriate care. As an example, they might not have patient
[00:07:57] records accessible to them that might say this individual is allergic to a specific compound or has this
[00:08:07] medical history.
[00:08:08] Simply, they're not available.
[00:08:10] And that type of outage is really one of the first, let's call it forcing functions,
[00:08:17] that's led healthcare regulators, industry, sorry, in the US, Europe and elsewhere to say, well, cyber security
[00:08:27] as a practice needs to be something that has a demand signal associated with it.
[00:08:34] If healthcare systems aren't demanding that their systems that are being procured are
[00:08:38] effectively cyber resilient, then they end up in a situation where they might be procuring simply based off of
[00:08:46] cost. And if you go for the lowest cost, you might not necessarily have the most secure systems.
[00:08:53] And the good news is, of course, in response to some of these threats are increasing, some
[00:08:58] governments are now actively implementing new cybersecurity standards. But a question I've
[00:09:03] got to ask you is how adequate are these measures and what more could be done to strengthen them?
[00:09:09] Do you think?
[00:09:10] So I'll give an example from the US.
[00:09:13] In December of 2022, the US Congress amended the legislation that governs the US Food and Drug Administration.
[00:09:22] Food and Drug Administration. The Food and Drug Administration is part of the Department of Health and Human Services
[00:09:29] and they have authority to regulate any type of medical device.
[00:09:33] It could be a glucose meter, it could be a pacemaker, it could be a CT machine.
[00:09:41] The breadth is quite large. This legislation effectively said that the medical device manufacturers need to convey
[00:09:51] three distinct items when they do whatever regulatory filings that they're going to perform.
[00:09:57] Two of which are disclose any vulnerabilities that were not addressed at the point that
[00:10:03] this particular piece of software or the cyber physical device that is being regulated was released. And the second is
[00:10:10] describe the vulnerability incident response processes that might exist. So forcing the
[00:10:17] providers to start thinking about what it means to own these devices in a somewhat hostile environment that is subject to threats.
[00:10:30] That legislation resulted in regulation that started, that took effect as of October 1st
[00:10:36] of 2023 and effectively states that there are specific types of testing that the Food and Drug Administration expects
[00:10:46] medical device manufacturers to perform, document, and supply to them as part of the regulatory
[00:10:51] effort. And so we're starting to see a greater push. And while I focused in on the US FDA,
[00:10:59] the International Medical Device Regulators Forum has applicability on a global basis.
[00:11:05] And you can draw a line of sight back to a lot of that activity that the FDA has put
[00:11:10] in place, even though the legislative and the regulatory framework in the US is obviously
[00:11:14] different than other parts of the world.
[00:11:16] And before you came on the podcast today, I was doing a little research on you and I
[00:11:21] know another subject very close to your heart is zero trust networking. So again, I'd love to find out more about how zero trust networking is also
[00:11:30] a good way to mitigate damage from cyber attacks. But most importantly, how does this principle
[00:11:35] work in healthcare setting and what's its effectiveness like? Because I've heard in
[00:11:40] the past, obviously in the corporate setting, I looked here more about how it works in healthcare
[00:11:44] and the benefits that it can bring to that too.
[00:11:47] So the first thing we need to do is define zero trust networking
[00:11:52] for those who aren't familiar with it.
[00:11:53] And effectively that's a scenario where you will have access
[00:12:00] to the resources on the network that are appropriate to your job function, that
[00:12:07] the access within that software is also appropriate to your job function, and that you can't gain
[00:12:13] access elsewhere. And if you look at, say, any hospital, you typically can walk in, you might go and find someone to the station and inquire as
[00:12:27] to where your loved one's room might be.
[00:12:31] And past that point, you've effectively got freedom to roam the facility as needed.
[00:12:38] And obviously, there are devices that are going to be in the room, for example, monitoring
[00:12:44] equipment.
[00:12:46] If someone were of a malicious intent,
[00:12:49] they have the ability to gain access to various systems
[00:12:53] within the hospital that might, for example,
[00:12:56] provide information about a patient
[00:12:58] or might change the information
[00:13:00] that has been collected about a patient.
[00:13:03] If that network is only accessible to a clinician
[00:13:07] or nurse or someone else who has the authority to actually inquire as to what that data might be
[00:13:15] or modify that data, then it's operating in more of a zero trust environment. And so that way,
[00:13:22] you end up in a scenario where the system as a whole at the network level
[00:13:28] is able to go and block a certain set of attacks that might be present for no other reason
[00:13:34] than it's not the authenticated individual's job to be there to touch this data or to otherwise
[00:13:42] act upon things that are part of that piece of the network.
[00:13:46] It requires a different way of thinking when deploying software and to a certain extent when constructing software.
[00:13:52] But it is definitely one of the easier ways that any healthcare system can go and apply modern cybersecurity principles without overly increasing the cost associated with their IT
[00:14:06] operations or the procurement of any software or service solution.
[00:14:10] And looking at how cash strapped healthcare is over here in the UK, and I suspect in many
[00:14:16] places around the world where people are listening, I would imagine that there's a huge dilemma
[00:14:21] and incredible, delicate balancing out between allocating resources for IT security,
[00:14:27] for example, versus patient care. So how can healthcare organizations find that balance? They
[00:14:33] ensure both effective cyber security and high quality patient care, a huge balance and very
[00:14:39] difficult, I would imagine. It is, but it needn't be. So if we look at some of the core challenges,
[00:14:49] a CT machine, for example, has a lifespan of many years, most equipment in a hospital setting
[00:14:55] is going to have a lifespan of many years. And even the devices that are procured today
[00:15:02] that are built according to what we believe are prudent cybersecurity practices.
[00:15:08] Some point, maybe two, three years from now, some clever individual might go and discover a way to
[00:15:16] be, to compromise what that set of best practices and principles known in 2024 looked like.
[00:15:24] set of best practices and principles known in 2024 looked like. So we have to accept that there's some future state that might result in even our most prudent
[00:15:29] practices today being vulnerable.
[00:15:33] In order to best address that, what the procurement teams need to be thinking about is the type
[00:15:40] of demands that they're placing on their providers. So people have heard about things like secure by design,
[00:15:48] secure by default.
[00:15:50] We're now entering a phase where it's secure by demand.
[00:15:54] This piece of software, this service,
[00:15:56] this product is not acceptable in this environment
[00:16:01] unless it performs these cybersecurity functions
[00:16:04] or has these cybersecurity features,
[00:16:06] or that there is documentation that effectively says, here's how this software was developed.
[00:16:14] Within the software supply chain round, we have seen quite a lot of activity around secure
[00:16:19] by demand, simply because unless there's an actual demand for a more secure or resilient or robust piece of
[00:16:28] software, the development teams will simply view that as an optional feature instead of a true
[00:16:34] requirement and secure by demand sets that as a true requirement.
[00:16:39] And again, before you came on the podcast, I was reading that you're also an advocate for
[00:16:50] And again, before you came on the podcast, I was reading that you're also an advocate for detailed cyber security reviews for potential vendors and also device manufacturers too. But what does that process involve?
[00:16:53] And how can it help in identifying and mitigating risk?
[00:16:56] Because again, it's so important to look beyond just your immediate IT and it should be about the partners, et cetera.
[00:17:01] But what does this process look like?
[00:17:04] So fundamentally, it falls under the umbrella
[00:17:06] of what's known as threat modeling.
[00:17:09] So where the software development organizations
[00:17:18] effectively almost fall flat is through their understanding
[00:17:21] of the types of risk that might be present
[00:17:23] in the deployed environment. So if you go to almost any development organization and you talk to their engineers,
[00:17:32] they will express a desire to quote, learn more about the customer. And that's a good
[00:17:36] thing because it means that the developers are trying to understand what the real requirements
[00:17:41] are. But in regulated environments like healthcare systems, like critical infrastructure, the
[00:17:49] challenges the developers are charged with creating code, not digesting whatever the
[00:17:56] latest set of EU or UK regulations or legislation that is coming down might have as ramification.
[00:18:04] They are not attorneys. They are not attorneys.
[00:18:06] They are not regulators.
[00:18:08] They should be focused on writing appropriate code.
[00:18:13] Part of that relationship is effectively working
[00:18:17] with a team of individuals who are accustomed to breaking
[00:18:21] software, breaking systems, gaining access to systems in clever ways.
[00:18:26] Now, that might sound an awful lot like the malicious individual, but the reality is this
[00:18:32] type of threat modeling is one of the best ways to go and defend against the malicious
[00:18:38] individual because you're thinking in advance what the mechanisms a malicious individual might use to bypass a
[00:18:46] piece of security, bypass a configuration, leverage a piece of data, or what they might
[00:18:51] deem as valuable information such as patient health records.
[00:18:55] And it's that approach from a risk-based or threat-based scenario that is also one of
[00:19:01] these demand signals that a secure by demand environment would want.
[00:19:05] And we should also mention that healthcare data is extremely sensitive and because it's
[00:19:10] so sensitive, it makes it even more valuable to cyber criminals.
[00:19:14] So what strategies should healthcare organizations adopt to better protect that data from breaches
[00:19:20] and ultimately ensure its accuracy too?
[00:19:23] Any tips you can share for any healthcare
[00:19:25] leaders listening?
[00:19:26] So, one of the most important things is to recognize when healthcare information is
[00:19:32] needed and what level of detail. So, in a ideal world, a physician, a clinician, they
[00:19:41] would have access to exactly the information that they need in as much detail
[00:19:47] as they need when performing say triage, recommending care, doing all of their normal jobs.
[00:19:55] But that free access is built on the premise that it's the clinician, the physician, and
[00:20:02] authorized individual who has access to it under all circumstances.
[00:20:07] We already know that a lot of the software that operates within a clinical setting is
[00:20:13] not necessarily the most recent software. It's not necessarily legacy by any stretch of the imagination, but it might have been
[00:20:20] designed and implemented a year or two ago.
[00:20:23] We know that budgets are tight regardless
[00:20:27] of the hospital system. And that the the net result is that that balance that dance that
[00:20:35] we've spoken about. So the first thing that the operators of systems, the IT leaders within systems,
[00:20:45] the overall leadership team needs to look at is,
[00:20:51] at what point is data actually necessary
[00:20:54] and in what context?
[00:20:56] So that you don't have the entirety of a patient's record
[00:20:59] available to anyone who asks for it.
[00:21:01] You have a specific set of requirements
[00:21:04] around access control. You have the
[00:21:06] ability to demand or for who actually was gaining access so that if there is a set of compromise
[00:21:14] credentials, you can trace exactly where that set of credentials were used. If you have floating stations, the hospital system that I use has effectively a backup
[00:21:27] environment where at any station that a nurse might have, they have redundancy in the terminals.
[00:21:35] And if one terminal is slow to respond or otherwise not functioning, they'll simply
[00:21:40] move to the next.
[00:21:43] That constant login scenario, that's a piece of risk that
[00:21:47] needs to be mitigated. And it's through the use of these threat modeling scenarios that
[00:21:52] you can determine what type of information is necessary in what context and then build
[00:21:57] the appropriate monitoring programs.
[00:21:58] So if we cautiously look ahead to the future, are there any emerging cybersecurity threats
[00:22:06] that you see on the horizon, anything that keeps you up at night for healthcare systems,
[00:22:11] or how should the industry prepare to defend some of these potential threats on the horizon?
[00:22:17] So I think one of the biggest things that the IT leadership within health systems should be preparing themselves for
[00:22:27] is that as we mentioned at the top of the podcast, the healthcare systems as a whole tend to be the
[00:22:37] worst performing when one looks at it through the lens of breach management.
[00:22:49] lens of breach management. They tend to be the average breach occurred maybe close to a year ago, and they're only now detecting it. So the time to contain such activities,
[00:22:57] it's not necessarily in an optimal format. And that leads to more activity, a greater desire on the part of cyber criminals to monetize
[00:23:08] hospital systems. Even though at one point in time, many of the largest rats and wear teams said,
[00:23:17] we're actively not going to pursue healthcare systems. We do not want to go and suffer the consequences of such an action. It hurts
[00:23:29] our conscience. Today, they've just gotten significantly more brazen. They know that they're
[00:23:36] well-funded. They can see what the outcomes look like. And so that's the part that worries me is the how brazen the cyber criminals are becoming
[00:23:48] as well as through the funding of successful attacks in the past, how well funded their
[00:23:53] attacks can be today.
[00:23:55] Well, absolutely incredible.
[00:23:57] So I don't necessarily have that recommendation for industry to defend against this, but I
[00:24:03] do fall back to first principles,
[00:24:05] which is if you understand the type of threats, then you're in a better position to defend
[00:24:10] against them. And being able to identify the types of cybersecurity practices that are
[00:24:18] necessary, you end up in a situation where you can effectively direct the limited IT resources in ways that are
[00:24:26] going to have a continuous improvement paradigm.
[00:24:29] And I think that that may be the one scenario is that for leadership, if they go and do
[00:24:36] a baseline of whatever their current scenarios and situations are, implementing a continuous
[00:24:41] improvement program is probably the best path for them.
[00:24:45] Fantastic advice and so much gold in your answers today.
[00:24:49] Obviously, cybersecurity is an incredibly important topic,
[00:24:53] especially when we're bringing things like healthcare into the conversation too.
[00:24:57] So before I let you go, it's time to have a little bit of fun with you.
[00:25:00] You've shared your insights with me today.
[00:25:02] I'm going to ask you to leave one final gift for everyone listening.
[00:25:05] And that is a song that we can add to Spotify, Playlist.
[00:25:08] All I'm gonna ask is, what song would you like us to leave?
[00:25:11] Would you like to leave everyone listening with and why?
[00:25:14] I think I would suggest people to go back to some of the early,
[00:25:21] let's call it, I think mid-70s or so,
[00:25:24] and look up tryouts for the human race by sparks.
[00:25:28] And then as you learn their catalog a little bit, see where they've had influence on your
[00:25:34] favorite bands, your favorite groups over the years.
[00:25:39] Oh, what a great choice.
[00:25:41] I will proudly add that to the Spotify playlist.
[00:25:44] It's quite funny really that you bring that up because they are a great band what a great choice. I will proudly add that to the Spotify playlist. It's quite funny really that
[00:25:45] you bring that up because they are a great band in a great tune and they have been an influence to
[00:25:49] so many bands that are around today and so many artists that are around today. And we get into
[00:25:54] almost the chat GPT conversation now that how chat GPT will take and learn and be inspired by
[00:26:00] content and some will say plagiarize but it's very similar in the music industry, isn't it?
[00:26:05] When you look at almost every act that you love has been, it's either been inspired or borrowed from other artists in the past.
[00:26:11] Exactly. It is quite remarkable.
[00:26:14] And for anyone listening, just wanting to find out more about synopsis and anything we talked about today,
[00:26:21] maybe any of the reports we've referenced, or maybe they just wanna reach you
[00:26:25] or a member of your team.
[00:26:27] Where would you like to point everyone?
[00:26:29] So I would say synopsis.com
[00:26:31] and synopsis like most IT words
[00:26:33] is not spelled the way that you expect it to be spelled.
[00:26:36] So it's got a Y instead of an I.
[00:26:40] We can, I can be found on,
[00:26:43] I don't think I'll ever get away from actually calling it Twitter,
[00:26:47] but on X as at Tim in tech.
[00:26:51] And Synopsys has its Twitter as well, which is at software integrity group.
[00:26:57] For the socials, that's the best place to find out.
[00:26:59] And if anyone actually has any questions, I'm happy to respond to them on social.
[00:27:05] Completely with you on that, on the Calling It Twitter, no, X. I feel like almost days
[00:27:10] been I'm getting old now and I've got to keep calling it Twitter forever, almost like the
[00:27:13] days where you recorded everything and you got to tape it and you're the guy that still
[00:27:18] mentions that instead of just hitting record, you know, but I'm completely with you. I'll
[00:27:22] get all the links added to the show notes
[00:27:25] so people can find you nice and easily. And we covered so much there. And I just love focusing
[00:27:30] in not on the corporate side today, but more the increase in cyber attacks on healthcare,
[00:27:35] how it's jeopardizing patient safety and prompting governments to publish new cyber
[00:27:40] security standards and why it's not always enough. So much food for thought and you even left us
[00:27:45] with a cracking tune by Sparks.
[00:27:47] But more than anything, thanks for joining me today.
[00:27:49] Thank you, you're welcome.
[00:27:50] So having spoken with Tim there,
[00:27:52] I think it's clear that the battle against cyber threats
[00:27:54] in the healthcare sector is both complex and relentless.
[00:27:59] And today's discussion has shed light
[00:28:01] on the multi-faceted challenges
[00:28:03] healthcare organisations face,
[00:28:06] from hacking and ransomware to the nuanced vulnerabilities within their supply chains.
[00:28:11] And Tim's expert insights remind us that while healthcare systems excel in patient
[00:28:15] care, it's the integration of stringent cybersecurity practices that is non-negotiable in safeguarding
[00:28:23] that very care. And the path forward, it calls for a collaborative effort, embracing zero-trust networking,
[00:28:30] rigorous cybersecurity reviews and a proactive stance towards evolving threats.
[00:28:35] But before we part ways today, let's ponder on the role that each of us play in this ecosystem.
[00:28:41] How can we contribute to a more secure and resilient healthcare infrastructure?
[00:28:45] I'd love for you to share your thoughts if you're working in the heart of this space
[00:28:49] by emailing me techblogwriteroutlook.com, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, just at neil
[00:28:55] cqs and together let's try and navigate the future of healthcare cyber security and everything
[00:29:02] in between.
[00:29:03] But just a big thank you for listening as always and until
[00:29:05] next time, don't be a stranger.