2830: Decoding Digital Product Management with Airtable

[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of The Tech Talks Daily Podcast, where every day we dive

[00:00:08] into the heart of innovation, explore the depths of technology and its impact on our daily

[00:00:14] lives, businesses and even world.

[00:00:17] And today I'm honoured to have Anthony Maggio, the head of product management at a company

[00:00:23] called AirTable.

[00:00:25] And he's going to join me in a conversation that promises to be both enlightening and inspiring

[00:00:30] because with over a decade of experience in navigating the complex landscape of product

[00:00:35] development and management, Anthony's going to be bringing with him a wealth of knowledge

[00:00:39] and insights into the challenges and opportunities that are facing product leaders in today's

[00:00:45] rapidly evolving digital world.

[00:00:48] And in a time where technology development is accelerating and organisations are inundated

[00:00:54] with a plethora of tools aiming to support their business goals.

[00:00:59] The role of a product leader has never been more critical.

[00:01:04] So I've invited Anthony to join me today to share his unique perspective on combating

[00:01:08] challenges within the digital product supply chain and also address things like strategy

[00:01:15] drift and also how to leverage AI for greater support and so much more.

[00:01:23] So whether you are a product leader yourself involved in the tech industry or simply interested

[00:01:28] in the behind the scenes of the digital product life cycle management, this episode is tailored

[00:01:33] for you.

[00:01:34] Now before I get today's guest son it's time for me to mention the sponsors of TechTalks

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[00:02:33] But now it's time to get today's guest son.

[00:02:35] So buckle up and hold on tight as I beam your ears all the way to San Francisco where

[00:02:41] today's guest he's waiting to join me.

[00:02:44] So I'm a massive all welcome to the show.

[00:02:47] Can you tell everyone listening a little bit who you will and what you do?

[00:02:51] Alright well Neil thanks so much for having me.

[00:02:53] I'm Anthony Maggio and I'm the VP of Product Management at Air Table at Quarters in San

[00:02:59] Francisco and I've been here for about three and a half years.

[00:03:02] And for any of your listeners who aren't familiar with Air Table, Air Table is a low-code

[00:03:07] app platform that allows companies to really design software around their most important

[00:03:14] businesses process.

[00:03:16] Things like the product development lifecycle, IT management, marketing content management,

[00:03:21] many other workflows.

[00:03:23] And in the past creating these custom solutions, this custom software would have been a

[00:03:28] tremendous effort that required teams of developers.

[00:03:32] But now with low-code platforms like Air Table companies can really go and build themselves

[00:03:37] very quickly and efficiently.

[00:03:40] But I like to think I've been preparing for this job for a very long time even going

[00:03:45] back to middle school.

[00:03:47] My first job back in seventh grade was building MS access databases for small businesses

[00:03:52] like summer camps and dentist offices.

[00:03:55] And even then I was amazed by the impact that I was able to have on these companies as

[00:04:02] a single individual who could build an app and really transform the way they work.

[00:04:08] And I went on after college to work at Doidt consulting with very large companies, enterprises

[00:04:13] and state governments and found that they had many of the same problems.

[00:04:17] They were also struggling with inflexible tools and for ERP software that led to poor execution.

[00:04:25] So fast forward after a decade working in many enterprise software as a service companies

[00:04:30] and startups, I ultimately landed at Air Table to help them prove the way these companies

[00:04:35] work.

[00:04:36] Wow, what a great back story.

[00:04:38] And I wonder if it's that kid, if you look back when you were that kid with those months

[00:04:42] of access databases, even then you had no idea just how much or how fast that pace of

[00:04:49] technological change would be throughout your life.

[00:04:53] Absolutely.

[00:04:54] I was obsessed and interested in technology going back to an early age and I don't think

[00:05:00] I could have dreamed of all the hits that I would see in my lifetime and my career with

[00:05:06] the introduction of mobile and so much change on the internet.

[00:05:09] And now, of course, the advent of AI which has continued to reinvent the way that we work

[00:05:14] and interact with technology.

[00:05:17] It really has.

[00:05:18] I'm glad you've mentioned the AI.

[00:05:19] I like fast forward to 2024.

[00:05:23] Digital products supply chain is becoming increasingly complex.

[00:05:26] The software continues to dominate already in the world we can say, but can you share any

[00:05:32] insights on some of the main challenges that you're seeing organizations facing today,

[00:05:37] especially around managing this complexity and also, of course, our Air Table, you're addressing

[00:05:43] some of these challenges.

[00:05:44] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:05:45] And I think we're at a really interesting time here because the concept of a digital

[00:05:50] product supply chain or digital product lifecycle isn't new.

[00:05:54] But the complexity around developing excellent digital products has really increased.

[00:06:01] And every company now is becoming a digital product company.

[00:06:05] You look across every industry, banking, insurance, the way that users, the way that customers

[00:06:12] are interacting with most companies now, is through a mobile app or through some type

[00:06:17] of software.

[00:06:18] And so the challenge that these companies are having is that for product managers there's

[00:06:22] more data available than ever before.

[00:06:25] And while that should help theums do their jobs better, it's also quite overwhelming

[00:06:30] that user and customer feedback and market data are all managed in ad hoc processes analytics

[00:06:37] within their own tools.

[00:06:39] Team roadmaps might live in PowerPoints or spreadsheets and engineers and the ones actually

[00:06:45] building a software working in tools like JIRA.

[00:06:48] So there's really no single source of truth, new practical way to orchestrate that whole

[00:06:54] life side ball from customer insights all the way through product launches and delivery.

[00:07:00] And that's a challenge that I hear about very frequently from chief product officers

[00:07:04] that slows down their decision making, their execution and ultimately leads to negative product

[00:07:11] quality and outcomes.

[00:07:13] So there's a real opportunity that we see at their table for product readers to start addressing

[00:07:18] the gaps between all those tools to gain end and visibility.

[00:07:22] And really to improve the quality of the digital products that they're building.

[00:07:26] And that's a big part of what we've been focused on is really reimagining this whole supply

[00:07:31] chain, that whole digital product lifecycle with the incorporation of AI to help companies

[00:07:37] build better products and deliver them faster.

[00:07:39] And another thing I think with the sheer volume of data and technological tools available

[00:07:44] are I think many product leaders often face the risk of the dreaded strategy drift.

[00:07:49] I mean, how can they ensure that their projects remain a lot, remain a line now, especially

[00:07:56] with the overarching business goals and also if we throw it into yourselves at a table

[00:08:01] here?

[00:08:02] What role do you guys play in facilitating some of that alignment as well because you must

[00:08:06] hear the phrase strategy drift so many times, right?

[00:08:10] Yeah, you know, this is a challenge.

[00:08:11] I think every product leader has faced at some point.

[00:08:15] And typically what we see happen is that product teams they come together for annual planning

[00:08:20] or quarterly planning and everyone who leaves the room feeling generally aligned about

[00:08:25] the strategy and priorities.

[00:08:27] But invariably as the year kicks off, some of those teams start to spin up their own

[00:08:32] initiatives and local priorities and agenda start to emerge.

[00:08:37] And that really leaves the product leadership with the burden of spending a tremendous amount

[00:08:42] of time and energy monitoring everything happening across their organization and trying

[00:08:47] to corral teams back on track with the company focus.

[00:08:52] And that's the problem we like to call strategy drift this misalignment between a product

[00:08:57] team's effort and the broader business priorities.

[00:09:01] And I speak to your chief product leaders in the enterprise.

[00:09:05] This is the most top of mind problem that I hear about from CPS.

[00:09:10] Are we doing what we said we were going to do?

[00:09:12] Do we actually fund with head count, the teams and the initiatives and the big rocks that

[00:09:18] are most critical to achieve achieving the business objectives for this year?

[00:09:22] And are there things actually on track?

[00:09:24] So this is a problem that we've been very focused on addressing across the digital

[00:09:29] product supply chain with Earth table.

[00:09:32] And just one example is that we're now using AI to automatically map team level projects

[00:09:39] and initiatives up to company level goals and OKRs to help CPS identify where there's

[00:09:46] significant effort being dedicated to work that may not map to their company balls or focus

[00:09:52] and really re-examine some of those priorities.

[00:09:55] And at the very beginning of our conversation, you mentioned the AI word.

[00:09:59] It's all anyone's talking about in a moment and the speed of change there is just phenomenal

[00:10:03] was looking at the text to video features earlier before coming on this call with you

[00:10:08] and it is being heralded through its ability to streamline operations and ultimately enhance

[00:10:13] project visibility.

[00:10:15] So from air tables perspective though, how can teams leverage AI not just for efficiency

[00:10:20] but also for a strategic advantage in project management and the life cycle visibility

[00:10:27] of a product to?

[00:10:28] Yeah, so glad you asked this question because you're right that the vast majority of the

[00:10:33] AI applications we've seen so far, especially within enterprise SaaS have been primarily

[00:10:39] focused on inefficiency.

[00:10:40] You know things like write me this email faster or summarize some content for me.

[00:10:46] But what I'm most excited about is the possibility for AI to start solving problems that were

[00:10:52] previously very difficult if not impossible to solve with humans.

[00:10:57] As one example that we're seeing within the product supply chain, is that air table

[00:11:03] is now allowing product teams to spot trends in their user and customer feedback based

[00:11:09] on thousands of data points by incorporating AI.

[00:11:12] So we can ingest for example user feedback from many sources like support tickets, community

[00:11:19] forums, sales requests, even recorded phone calls through Zoom or other avenues and then

[00:11:27] use AI to parse all that feedback and spot product opportunities.

[00:11:32] So let's say for example that the prospects of a company start mentioning one important

[00:11:38] product gap that's offered by a competitor and that the people who mentioned that product

[00:11:43] gap are the ones who end up not lying your product.

[00:11:46] In the past, a product manager probably wouldn't even hear about that until it's escalated

[00:11:52] through a sales leader and maybe forced onto their roadmap.

[00:11:57] But now using AI we can automatically identify that trend route it to the right heart of

[00:12:03] the organization to the right product manager or team and help those teams actually influence

[00:12:09] the conversion rate of their product proactively before it comes up as a reactive need.

[00:12:16] And the pace of technological development as well is pretty relentless right now so

[00:12:20] is anything you could share how product leaders could adapt their strategies to keep up with

[00:12:26] this pace because although it is moving breath taking speed, there's an argument they

[00:12:31] will never move the slower gain too.

[00:12:33] So how can they keep up with that pace and how do you airtable helping navigating some

[00:12:38] of these rapid changes?

[00:12:40] Well, you're absolutely right.

[00:12:41] The pace of change continues to accelerate and I think it's incumbent on product leaders

[00:12:46] to ensure that they are continuously placing the right bets and investing in the right areas.

[00:12:53] And so for product leaders maintaining a balanced portfolio of the type of their investments

[00:12:59] across the organization is a really important way to keep up with that rapid pace of change.

[00:13:05] What I typically see from product leaders across the enterprise is that they'll have

[00:13:09] them go all to set, you know, let's say 50% of their headcount to focus on their core

[00:13:16] business.

[00:13:17] But then another 30, 40% on new ways to grow the business, on new products or moving into

[00:13:24] adjacent markets that they can tap into.

[00:13:27] And then maybe 10% on some big moonshot bets are big swing, big swing efforts.

[00:13:33] And a way that air table helps with this is by giving product leaders visibility into

[00:13:38] how the team and headcount are actually invested across those buckets.

[00:13:43] Not only, you know, how are they invested but also even the next level down, how are these

[00:13:47] teams working on or aligned to priorities that map up to the business goals?

[00:13:52] And what are those key initiatives?

[00:13:54] And are they on track or are they starting to flounder or move behind?

[00:13:59] And that way, you know, as these product leaders encounter shifts in the market or changes

[00:14:04] in technology or things that might alter what they're focused on as an organization, they

[00:14:09] have the data that allows them to adjust their strategy and resourcing quickly.

[00:14:14] The biggest challenge that we typically see is a lack of visibility around how that top

[00:14:19] line, headcount and team formation actually trickles down into the team level goals and

[00:14:26] that work that's happening in a large company.

[00:14:28] So with your extensive experience in product management, I've got to ask, what are some

[00:14:33] of the best practices that you'd recommend to other product leaders, especially in terms

[00:14:38] of utilizing digital tools and platforms like air table to overcome some of these common

[00:14:44] pain points?

[00:14:45] You've probably seen some great examples and some not so great examples but what are

[00:14:49] the best practices that you've fallen with best role at now?

[00:14:52] Yeah, it's a really good question.

[00:14:54] And I saw a stat recently that really stood out to me a study from Bain in 2022 that found

[00:15:03] that 75% of CTOs say that the ROI on their software development investments don't meet their

[00:15:11] expectations.

[00:15:13] Pretty shocking stat actually, only 25% of CTOs say that they're actually happy with

[00:15:19] the ROI of their product development teams.

[00:15:23] And I think this really speaks to the importance of having an effective product management

[00:15:28] function within the enterprise that is really helping that a company to make good decisions

[00:15:33] and invest in the right products across their portfolio.

[00:15:37] So in terms of best practices, what we see from really high functioning product management

[00:15:42] organizations are that one, they know their customer.

[00:15:45] They bring the right data to the table.

[00:15:47] They build the right processes to really understand the customer needs, the customer landscape

[00:15:52] of alternatives and how they make buying decisions on software.

[00:15:57] Two, is that they're building the right product so they operate with well prioritized roadmaps

[00:16:04] grounded in clear customer needs, clear impact to market opportunities.

[00:16:09] And three, is they collaborate really effectively across the organization.

[00:16:14] So product and development teams aren't just siloed and operating off on their own, but

[00:16:19] they're engaging really heavily with marketing teams with customer facing teams in the sales

[00:16:25] and support organizations to amplify the efforts of what they're building.

[00:16:31] And so these are areas that air tables been very focused on on helping to solve to centralize

[00:16:36] the data around this product development life cycle to ensure that the right people across

[00:16:41] the organization have visibility at the right points in time to amplify those efforts

[00:16:47] and to create reliable transparency around the product bird maps that both the product

[00:16:53] teams themselves, product leaders and other business partners can trust.

[00:16:58] And as businesses continue to evolve, how do you see the role of digital tools and platforms

[00:17:04] changing in the next few years?

[00:17:05] And I appreciate it is an impossible question to ask because just 12 months ago we were

[00:17:10] talking about chat GPT or OpenAI large language models beating lawyers at passing bar exams,

[00:17:17] 12 months later we've got text to video which is taking the world by storm.

[00:17:22] What trend should we be watching right now and how do you see it all being into place?

[00:17:27] It's a long way away from those days of the Microsoft Access database as well.

[00:17:32] It sure is.

[00:17:34] I believe that with AI we are entering an age of truly personalized software and at air table

[00:17:42] we've long held the belief that the people who are closest to the work, the line of business

[00:17:48] users, the ones who are really executing on the marketing campaigns or the product initiatives

[00:17:54] that those people are in the best position to understand what they need from software

[00:17:59] and what they need out of the design of the tools that they use.

[00:18:03] But there's still a large barrier to entry for most people to be able to actually create

[00:18:08] software.

[00:18:09] And even with easy-to-use low-code platforms like air table you still need to understand

[00:18:15] some basics around databases and application logic and UI design to create really useful applications.

[00:18:23] But with AI we now see the potential for that to change and really to allow anyone with

[00:18:28] organization to very quickly create and deploy highly customized software applications just

[00:18:35] based on a few descriptions around their workflow and their needs and their requirements

[00:18:41] out of software.

[00:18:42] And we're actually already seeing that some of the analysts like Forrester are taking

[00:18:46] note of this trend and suggesting that AI will really quickly evolve the low-code market

[00:18:52] and make it grow even faster by lowering the barrier to entry of who can become a software

[00:18:58] developer.

[00:18:59] And I think we should also highlight that it's not just technology that has changed how

[00:19:02] right it seems towards work has changed it four years ago the world by the very large

[00:19:07] point and suddenly woke up to working remotely at scale.

[00:19:12] It almost happened overnight.

[00:19:13] Now we're evolving into a hybrid world of working but in a context of increasingly distributed

[00:19:19] project lifestyle life cycles, how can product leaders effectively build and manage these

[00:19:24] remote teams that we're seeing now?

[00:19:27] What have been your experience at air table in fostering collaboration and productivity

[00:19:32] across distances because it's been some journey we've all been on over the last four

[00:19:36] five years, hasn't it?

[00:19:37] It has been quite a journey now and I've actually worked prior to air table.

[00:19:41] I worked for a fully remote company for four years.

[00:19:45] So I've been eight years now into this remote and hybrid environment and definitely picked

[00:19:50] up a few things along the way.

[00:19:52] What would I say as the biggest area for companies to focus is really intentionality.

[00:19:58] You get a lot of things per free when everyone is in the office shared cultural norms, rituals,

[00:20:05] all-way conversations that all just happens naturally.

[00:20:09] When you're operating in a fully remote or hybrid environment, you need to build time

[00:20:14] and space for these types of cultural norms and cultural rituals to take shape.

[00:20:20] So creating forums for brainstorm time, or strategy discussions, even for opportunities

[00:20:27] for teams to really form bonds and connect over cultural rituals becomes really important.

[00:20:33] At air table we do something once a month called Show and Tell where engineers and designers

[00:20:39] and product managers get up and present a demo of a working product feature that they're

[00:20:45] working on.

[00:20:46] When everyone in the company, they can come see all the innovation and work that's happening

[00:20:51] within the product organizations and teams.

[00:20:54] That's really one of the most exciting and engaging cultural rituals that we have across

[00:20:59] the company but it really needed to be designed in a way that is friendly for those remote

[00:21:04] employees and engaging for everyone to participate in.

[00:21:08] We start at the podcast talking about you at the beginning of your journey with those

[00:21:12] access databases.

[00:21:13] If you look back and reflect on your journey, what have been some of the most valuable lessons

[00:21:18] that you've learned along the way as a product leader?

[00:21:21] And how have these lessons shaped your approach at air table?

[00:21:24] It's a little like Steve Jobsquat, isn't it?

[00:21:26] You can't join up the dots by looking forward.

[00:21:31] It's only when you look back that you can see the impacts of everything that happened

[00:21:34] but what are your biggest lessons here?

[00:21:35] Well there's been many but I'll leave you with two that have always stepped with me.

[00:21:40] I think one you probably hear this a lot is people and to build great products, you

[00:21:46] really need a phenomenal team behind them, a team of product managers and product leaders

[00:21:51] that have an incredible degree of understanding of their users on their market and fostering

[00:21:57] that right team and building that culture of innovation is something that I've seen

[00:22:02] to be so critical for software companies to get right.

[00:22:06] So that's been a huge focus of mine and an effort that I put a lot of attention to since

[00:22:12] joining air table and in this role.

[00:22:15] The second I'd say is for product leaders to really stay close to the execution of

[00:22:20] the work.

[00:22:21] And I think there's sometimes a perception that as you move up in an organization, as you

[00:22:26] move into manager and director roles that you graduate out of the work and focus just

[00:22:32] on the people management and on the people development.

[00:22:36] But within the product management function, I've seen that that doesn't really work to

[00:22:41] do really be effective at driving the product strategy.

[00:22:45] You need to stay extremely close to the customer, to the execution, to the market.

[00:22:50] In a perfect world you can actually be your own customer much like I was working in

[00:22:57] the tools and the space prior to joining air table and having an understanding around

[00:23:02] how I made my own buying decisions as a customer.

[00:23:06] And I think that that's something that's really important for product readers to stay

[00:23:09] attuned to is not thinking of themselves as moving out of the execution, but really

[00:23:16] continuously putting yourself in the mindset of the customer, of the product manager and

[00:23:23] keeping an eye on that whole landscape that impacts the dynamics of your strategy.

[00:23:29] Well, I cannot thank you enough for showing your story today.

[00:23:32] Also giving us the gift of your insights throughout your entire career.

[00:23:36] But before I let you go, I'm going to ask you to leave one final gift for everyone listening.

[00:23:40] And that is a book that you'd recommend that we can add to our Amazon wish list for

[00:23:44] anybody listening that wants to check that out.

[00:23:46] But what book would you like to leave everyone with and why?

[00:23:50] Of course.

[00:23:51] I love the Amazon wish list.

[00:23:52] I took a look at it right before joining this conversation today.

[00:23:57] So my addition to the wish list would be Com Keating Against Luck by Clayton Christensen.

[00:24:02] I think this book should be required reading for anyone in a product development or product

[00:24:08] management function.

[00:24:10] And if you're not familiar with that, this book is the source of the jobs to be done framework,

[00:24:16] which highlights that customers don't really buy product or services.

[00:24:21] They hire them to do a job for them.

[00:24:24] And this book, I was fortunate to read midway through my product development career.

[00:24:30] And it really expanded the way that I thought about product management emphasizing the importance

[00:24:36] of the landscape of alternatives that customer space.

[00:24:40] I've always found this to be very true, very salient, especially in software where your

[00:24:46] customers, alternatives are typically much broader than you might give them credit for as

[00:24:52] a product manager or product leader.

[00:24:54] I still see that the vast majority of software companies are competing in some way with Excel

[00:25:01] or word documents rather than the companies that they might think to be their core competitors.

[00:25:07] And this is an idea that Clayton Christensen really articulates well in competing against

[00:25:13] luck.

[00:25:14] Well, I'm going to be checking that out.

[00:25:16] I'll add that straight to the Amazon wish list.

[00:25:19] Anybody listening just want in a funer more information about a table contact you

[00:25:23] or your team will just explore any of the topics we talked about today.

[00:25:27] Where would you like to point them?

[00:25:29] Of course, for anyone interested in air table, you can find us at airtable.com and for

[00:25:34] any product managers or product readers in your audience, we're always looking for

[00:25:39] rate folks to come join our team and you can find us at airtable.com slash careers.

[00:25:44] Look at those links added to the show notes so people can follow and do know like something

[00:25:48] easily.

[00:25:49] And we did cover so much there from combating challenges with digital products, supply

[00:25:54] or chain advising advice for product leaders for addressing strategy drift.

[00:26:00] I think that's something that will resonate with so many people listening along with of

[00:26:04] course leveraging AI for support.

[00:26:06] AI is a bit of a buzzword at the moment but also for good reason and it was interesting

[00:26:11] for me to hear our AI is also valuable technology to streamline general business operations

[00:26:16] and employee tasks.

[00:26:18] An AI technology can help provide teams with the necessary high-end visibility into project

[00:26:23] life cycles so much more than efficiency where only scratching the surface here but more

[00:26:28] lethine just thank you for sharing that and your story today.

[00:26:30] Thank you for joining me.

[00:26:31] Thank you for having me now, I'm great to connect with you.

[00:26:34] I think it's clear that the path forward for product leaders is paved with both challenges

[00:26:39] and immense opportunities having spoken with Anthony today.

[00:26:43] And his expertise and his advice on navigating the digital product supply chain, combating

[00:26:49] strategy drift and holising the power of AI for enhanced project visibility has almost

[00:26:55] offered a roadmap for success in a landscape that is constantly being reshaped by technological

[00:27:01] advancement.

[00:27:02] And I think the journey through this digital age as Anthony has illustrated requires a

[00:27:07] blend of strategic force on adaptability and a keen understanding of the tools that

[00:27:13] are our disposal.

[00:27:15] Ultimately it's about knowing your customer, prioritising effectively and fostering a

[00:27:22] culture of collaboration across teams to build products that truly meet the evolving

[00:27:27] needs of businesses and the end users alike.

[00:27:30] So I for one I'm excited to see where Anthony and the entire team at Air Table will take

[00:27:35] their innovative solutions next.

[00:27:37] I'm equally excited about the future of digital product management.

[00:27:42] But what are your thoughts on any of the topics we covered today?

[00:27:45] How do you see AI and other technologies impacting product management in your field?

[00:27:50] Please join the conversation, share your insights as we continue exploring this fascinating

[00:27:55] world of technology and its endless possibilities.

[00:27:58] Whatever it is if you've got a question or even pitched to come on here just techbrogrytouroutlook.com

[00:28:04] or get me on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram just at Neil C.U.S.

[00:28:09] That's it for today so thank you for tuning in to Tech Talks daily.

[00:28:12] I hope you will join me again tomorrow.

[00:28:15] Don't forget to subscribe for more episodes where we continue to unravel the complexities

[00:28:20] of technology and its role in our lives.

[00:28:22] But until next time keep innovating, keep exploring, let's keep asking these big questions.

[00:28:28] See you all again tomorrow.