2845: How BAE Systems is Extending Reality With Synthetic Training Environments (STE)

[00:00:00] In an era where the fusion of technology and defense strategies open up new frontiers for military training.

[00:00:10] How do we navigate the complexities of preparing armed forces for the realities of modern warfare?

[00:00:17] One today's episode of Tech Talks Daily, we're going to delve into the innovative world of project odyssey over at BAE Systems.

[00:00:26] My guest today is Lucy Walton, and she's going to be talking about how project odyssey stands at the forefront of revolutionising training through a comprehensive synthetic environment that spans air, land, sea, space and cyber domains.

[00:00:42] And this pioneering initiative not only promises to redefine the paradigms of military preparedness but also highlights the critical role of technology in enhancing safety, efficiency and an ecological footprint.

[00:00:56] And yes, we'll wash it all down with gaming technology, artificial intelligence, extended reality and learn more about military personnel and how they're being trained for the multifaceted challenges of the future.

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[00:02:03] That's kiteworks.com but now it's time to get today's guests on.

[00:02:09] So buckle up and hold on tight as I beam your ears all the way to the UK where Lucy is waiting to join us today.

[00:02:17] So a massive warm welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:02:24] Absolutely so I'm Lucy Walton and the head of training at BA Systems within our focal works business.

[00:02:29] I lead our next generation training team which looks at the training environment through to 2040, how it is evolving and the capabilities we will need for this future era both from a technology perspective and also people.

[00:02:42] Well it's a pleasure having you on the podcast. We've spoken with BA a few times over the last few weeks we were talking about everything from quantum computing to AI and it was Rob Murray whether we had on the show.

[00:02:56] Do you know Rob? Absolutely we're really close to with the CTO have a look at how we introduce technologies across the broader group of the A systems.

[00:03:04] So yeah, no Rob very well.

[00:03:06] Well we busted a few myths that that day and hopefully we can bust a few more today but one of the reasons I invited you on was to talk about project Odyssey.

[00:03:15] So just to set the same for our conversation today, can you offer a bit of an overview on the project?

[00:03:20] It's objective and also what makes it such a groundbreaking initiative in your eyes.

[00:03:25] Absolutely so project Odyssey is a singles synthetic environment.

[00:03:29] It's primary objective when we started the initiative was to provide a collective training environment for military personnel from multi domains and collective training really focuses on how equipped you are to carry out your role as part of a wider mission as a team as opposed to focusing on you being able to operate your roles as an individual.

[00:03:48] So this is very much around training for teamwork now synthetic environments have been around for many years.

[00:03:54] The A systems have a rich history and synthetics but historically the ambition is generally superseded the technology for the difference now is the technology and the ambition of what we can achieve are aligned.

[00:04:06] The with that project Odyssey is looking at the architecture of synthetic environments and how do we exploit the known technologies in that history alongside new technologies that have traditionally set out of defense to help us rewrite the rule book on synthetic environments really.

[00:04:21] A couple of great examples that I would say here are the use of gaming technology scale the complexity of that training scenario to improve the level of realism.

[00:04:30] So traditionally in synthetic environments simulators have been limited to circa 220 or 250 entities and that could be people it could be other aircraft tanks birds and it's generally been limited by the computing power delivered with that simulator.

[00:04:48] By leveraging technology using the game and industry like hey dear we can really look to push the limits on this and initially with project Odyssey we tested 60,000 entities whilst keeping the simulation completely stable but in reality the entities in there are infinitely scalable so you can really start to bring that complexity of the real world into the into the simulation environment.

[00:05:10] The other kind of really great initiative that I want to bring out is we also developed an artificial intelligence adaptable pattern of life and that was to introduce a different layer of complexity and fidelity to training scenario.

[00:05:22] It introduced some really interesting insights around how the future of training might be so historically scenarios are very planned out and scripted from a training perspective with white balls SMEs.

[00:05:33] And they control the training and ensure that the students are hitting the training objectives as they're required when you start to bring artificial intelligence in this means now need to work with you know our inspired D3 and plexus colleagues to understand how do we balance that human instruction with the introduction of artificial intelligence.

[00:05:52] We were running an exercise last year where we had a convoy of land vehicles carrying out a resupply to a base and the civilian pattern of life the AI decided to have a very unexpected car accident on the resupply room.

[00:06:05] It was really unplanned and it required both the instructors and the trainees to then react in the environment and that's not something that the instruction team would be would be used to so that that was a really great test point for me.

[00:06:17] Fantastic, but any non techies listening just to bring that to life a synthetic environment is typically a computer simulation that represents activities at a high level of realism and that can be anything in factories to manufacturing processes to the battlefield as you you mentioned there but I've got to ask you in your world here what are the primary benefits of using a single synthetic environment for military training across some different areas from air land sea space and.

[00:06:46] Even cyber forces compared to those traditional live collective training methods yeah absolutely there's a long list of limiting factors in the life environment that just don't exist in that virtual world so for example the space the physical space and the ranges to carry out exercises.

[00:07:03] The ranges we require now for modern day weapons are far larger than those that we would have seen on historical platforms and in reality in the synthetic world you have infinite space and ranges because it's this virtual.

[00:07:16] And then the next one is the ability to generate high value assets so whether that's an aircraft, it was a tank if it's a ship or all the assets it's really challenging because the rather than needed on frontline operations or they needed maintenance to make sure that they are ready for frontline operations again in that virtual and synthetic world.

[00:07:32] You can generate multiple assets and really bring together that real real life complexity.

[00:07:39] Another really, really important point is that our adversaries are now watching 24 hours a day in seven days a week when you are in a synthetic and virtual world you can deploy the tactics and trainers you fight it's just not possible in the live environment anymore because our adversaries are hovering up all of that data and information and all the sensor information out there.

[00:07:59] So by doing it in a synthetic environment we really protect our to our key tactics and information.

[00:08:05] And then the one that probably I hear the most of I speak to militaries around the world and our customers it's the huge benefit of our ability to train with allies on a more frequent basis and planned live exercises allow so synthetic environments really allows us to bridge the distance across continents and around the globe.

[00:08:22] Enabling people to dial into the training exercise much like people joining an online game quality duty that kind of mentality people can now join from wherever they are as opposed to having to co locate.

[00:08:33] That really starts to connect our our eyes around the globe and then obviously beyond those challenges which are all all significant in themselves there are all the benefits it's a very safe environment to learn so we want our trainees to make those mistakes in a virtual environment learn from them and then take that into the live environment where they can then be.

[00:08:51] And it also allows us to replicate complexity that's often quite hard to do in the live environment so as I talked about before how do you scale up to those large quantities of complexity with entities.

[00:09:03] How do you stimulate swarming drones there are all things are quite hard to do in the live environment very easy in the virtual world and then it's repeatable so you can hit reset and we do that training exercise over and over again and do it multiple times in a day that's really hard in the life of the world.

[00:09:20] That's really hard in the live environment there's lots of coordination that goes into a live training exercise not least even just getting all the assets refilled and reset to go so it's very repeatable.

[00:09:32] The last benefit would really bring out around synthetic they are much cheaper to carry out than live exercises and significantly reduce CO2 emissions.

[00:09:40] We actually calculated the CO2 emissions on one of the scenarios we carried out previously and it equated to a saving of around 97,000 kilograms of CO2 which is absolutely huge.

[00:09:50] So there's huge benefits to the planet and from an environmental perspective as well.

[00:09:55] And another thing that really stood out for me when I was reading about project Odyssey doing a little research before you came on is how it involves collaboration with experts for and what from different areas from gaming, super computing, VR, AR

[00:10:09] and really all the different areas. So I'm curious how critical is this multidisciplinary approach to the projects overall success and would any challenges that you had to overcome?

[00:10:19] I'm very critical. I've never worked on a project with such a wide diversity of people and it's by far been my favorite part of working on project Odyssey.

[00:10:28] I am very fortunate that I get to see the collaboration during development sprint weeks all the way from the systems engineering degree apprentices through to you know seasoned military experts.

[00:10:38] It just brings a very different dynamic and a wise person once told me that you see the world the way you sit.

[00:10:45] And I think it's a really great way to explain the dynamic in project Odyssey each of the nine organizations and indeed the individuals in those organizations bring up very different background and set of experiences.

[00:10:56] So when you put a problem on the table to be solved, everyone looks at it incredibly differently and the key from a basis of this is our engineering team really take on the challenge of integrating all those views together to drive away forward through the development cycle.

[00:11:10] But I think it drives a different mentality around of how far can we push this versus that's not possible.

[00:11:16] There's nearly always someone in the room that can come up with a solution and that then tends to spiral of flow rate, slow reactivity from everyone.

[00:11:23] And I think this is proven through the initial development cycle of Odyssey.

[00:11:26] So from kicking off the project with all the B S and E, then all the partner companies to demonstration.

[00:11:32] It was in just four months and that really came from that diversity of multidisciplinary, multidisciplinary backgrounds and different organizations coming together to collaborate.

[00:11:41] That was a real game changer for me.

[00:11:44] And if we were to take a look under the hood at some of the technologies that have been integrated into project, Odyssey is anything you can share around that, especially the role I would imagine of things like extended reality technology which is a huge topic right now and how that enhances training for the emotion and helps them.

[00:12:04] The people in training here.

[00:12:06] So there's a whole range of different software and technologies that Odyssey leverages with each partner in supply of bringing something different.

[00:12:13] So the core simulation engine is provided by the union interactive simulations.

[00:12:19] So again, they were both in defense and also in the game and industry.

[00:12:23] And then we have companies like pitch technologies.

[00:12:25] They provide us with interoperability solutions that can be anything from showing everybody despite being on very different simulators can talk to each other or visualize the same environment.

[00:12:35] And then we have organizations like Plexis that really bring the fidelity of the air and space environment alongside those defense subgeneral to experts to really enhance the multidimane experience.

[00:12:47] With regards to the extended reality technologies, project Odyssey is looked at a wide range from virtual reality or augmented reality and mixed reality and equally even some of the more traditional desktop types in your latest.

[00:12:59] There's so much technology available and constantly evolves on the market.

[00:13:03] It's been a really important to consider all those different options from our perspective.

[00:13:07] I think what we've realized is each of those technologies absolutely have a place but it's just the right use case that each one with the constant reminder of is this adding value to the training.

[00:13:17] So the D318 that we work with they provide us with a mixed reality also as a joint terminal attack troll simulator.

[00:13:23] So it's a land land role and the mixed reality in that role is really important because it allows the land team to be immersed in this synthetic environment in the training experience but still interact with the equipment that they would need to use on the field such as maps, multi viewing devices which uses binoculars or loads of range finders.

[00:13:42] And they also actually take a lot of notes with pen and paper so you need to be able to still use that very traditional old school pen and paper alongside that mixed reality to make sure that you feel immersed in that scenario.

[00:13:53] So mixed reality which really well in that scenario.

[00:13:56] We've also had a number of our pilots in the virtual reality and they've actually been so immersed that they've gone to grab the handrail on the aircraft as if they were in the physical aspect.

[00:14:05] So it's interesting to see that muscle memory kicking in and showing that they are actually immersed in that level.

[00:14:11] In terms of augmented reality we have worked closely with Paulie's they develop digital twins and utilize AR to generate visuals.

[00:14:20] They've largely come from outside of defense heavy focus on the transport industry and they helped us to develop our battle space viewer which provides situational awareness through a common operating picture of everything going on.

[00:14:32] They've really allowed us to in a visual way integrate all those the different domains and the complexity that comes with that because everyone uses difference in biology and different different ways to view things depending on the domain.

[00:14:44] So that was a really a really key key activity that we work through Paulies are in this instance was really important because generally it's going to be people that sat in the headquarters communicating with each other to make decisions.

[00:14:56] And the Microsoft HoloLens AR allows you to still maintain visuals on your broader surround in so you can pick up on things like book body language and you can still see the real world environment around you which is which is really critical in that scenario.

[00:15:09] There's many more examples in Odyssey but I think the key here for me is recognizing that one side doesn't fit all and it's definitely about selecting the right device for each role and requirement and we will continue to experiment across the range of technologies available with all our partners

[00:15:24] and also the volume team. And I'm glad you mentioned that there is not a one size fits all because another thing that stood out for me was this how it unlocks customized and personalized training approaches and how does project Odyssey's technology enable these personalized training experiences for military person as anything can expand there and also the kind of impact that you're seeing this having on their preparedness and skill development because it is so crucial isn't it?

[00:15:53] Absolutely so working with Brian all us also our human factors team we've been working on how do you pull data insights from the synthetic environment that helped to generate automated insights on the performance of individual students.

[00:16:06] So we split that into two categories we looked at it from a physiological perspective and we also looked at it from a procedural perspective.

[00:16:12] The physiological looks at things like blink rate heart rate sweat and eye tracking whilst the procedural looks at things like how I would be aviating navigate communicating and so on.

[00:16:24] And that data is actually captured in real time so instructors can see if a student is overloaded and therefore probably not in the optimum optimum space to learn or actually other fact back finding it too easy.

[00:16:35] We need to add some complexity to make sure that we're pushing the boundaries of their training and that's really to help us maximize every hour of training is then getting the best out of each of the students afterwards the students can then look at the dashboards and see how well they performed versus what should have covered in the expected performance and the expected performance comes from machine learning by putting lots of experts through the same scenario that comes sets the baseline of what good looks like.

[00:17:02] But that allows the students to really improve for themselves in future future exercises and even when we had seasoned experts in that was really interesting to see how they responded to such a visual way of looking at their performance.

[00:17:14] Well, I was like look at why is that person done better than me? What is it that I can do differently and learning from each other so really interested to kind of have that extra dashboard effect play now.

[00:17:25] The day today the date is really captured has been heavily focused on individual performance so they mentioned right at the beginning collective trainings all about that team performance to the next steps for us without a see and working with the brain human factors team is having a look at how do you focus in on whether you've collectively performed well as a team and not just you as an individual.

[00:17:47] But that will include looking at things like communication groups who spoke to who and when and in what order not only does that help us to understand whether we went through the rank communication channels in training.

[00:17:58] Can actually be used to design things like the layouts of headquarters are people sat in the right seats for who they're actually talking to so you can either start to use this date and insights to change your operating practices indeed in the real world.

[00:18:11] I'm really excited to see what insights we can generate from this piece of work the first step is always to collect the data but it's the analysis of that data and what it tells us to inform the training system that that really makes a difference.

[00:18:22] And the project also seems to both partnerships with a wide range of technology providers and experts and earlier in our conversation you said a great line there that you see the world from where you sit and on that point.

[00:18:35] I think the inclusion of people who might have different styles of problem solving different ways of learning and that how they can offer completely unique perspectives because they ultimately think differently have divergent perspectives and come from such varied background.

[00:18:50] So I'd love to find out more about how these partnerships might be able to contribute to innovation within project Odyssey and maybe share an example of how cognitive diversity has led to a breakthrough in the project too.

[00:19:03] Yeah so absolutely so the diversity definitely ignites a different approach to problem solving and coming up with innovative ways to do things but for me also brings when it's been agility.

[00:19:12] The defense has always been known to be slower than the commercial industry, particularly when it comes to the design and manufacture of major equipment but by bridging technology non traditional defense organizations and academia with the knowledge of the defense primes which is incredibly important.

[00:19:28] So you can start to move the dial on the time scales to develop new capability and we're seeing that in BAB on just project Odyssey with the development of the tempest combat aircraft.

[00:19:38] The challenge there is to develop it in half the time of previous combat aircraft that's only possible with with partnerships and that technology but from a project of Odyssey perspective we've definitely seen that speed and agility to play out so the Paul these battle space for you without talk about before was actually an incredibly last minute decision that our

[00:19:57] program engineering manager recognized was a missing piece of the jigsaw when we ran through one of our test weeks it was really difficult to have a look at what was going on across this incredibly complex operating environment.

[00:20:09] We'd work with Paul these previously on on AR for some of our technician training in the classroom in the future.

[00:20:15] So we had a very quick call with them became together and we drew up some ideas and within nine working days we had a minimum viable product that on day 10 was integrated into the environment and working.

[00:20:25] 10 day working turn around for me has been on a heard off and it was a really good scene set to future development and driving ambitious timescales to keep development moving at pace which we need if we're going to keep up with the rate of changing technology.

[00:20:38] I'm not sure how much you will be able to share with me but is there any if you can share around way go from here what the next steps offer project Odyssey I you mentioned integrating further domains to increase the environment complexity capability but.

[00:20:52] If you can share on how that evolution might enhance the training experience even further yeah so from a training experience exactly that we're working to integrate more domains to increase the complexity of the scenario with more live players and and we're also developing a live virtual and constructive demonstration where we actually have live assets as well as the virtual and simulated world.

[00:21:13] So that you can start to really really bridge those two environments we are planning to continue to develop the AI civilian pattern of life so it can do even more in the environment and create more complexity from a training perspective.

[00:21:25] But what I would say is wilds this initiative set out to be a collective training initiative with very quickly realize that the synthetic environment has a much broader utility beyond training across the whole mission cycle.

[00:21:38] So over the next three years alongside our cheat technology off this and and Robner whether that you mentioned before we're working to develop a number of applications that look across the design and development test and evaluation cycle.

[00:21:50] All the way through to how do we develop concepts for new capabilities that come to market how do we war game and how do we use this environment to help us with procurement support what are the right things to be buying to.

[00:22:02] To support the scenarios that we are facing in the future though for me it's very much a bit like the Apple I store concept where you have an operating system but then you go into the app store.

[00:22:13] You can buy different applications whether that's for training or for design and development of a new product and that's very much where we're now heading with the with project honestly i'm really excited to see those applications come online.

[00:22:25] And you mentioned the future if we look further into the future how do you envision the future of military training and also what role do you think synthetic training will increasingly play in preparing forces for the challenges of tomorrow's battlefields because technology seems to be in just about every every aspect of any kind of global conflict now right.

[00:22:46] For me, a synthetic will play a vital role in the future with live environments now often being element limiting factor.

[00:22:53] I think we must recognize that they'll always be an irreducible level of life to enable trainees to experience the physiological factors so it's a single environment isn't going to all G like you would in a fast jet.

[00:23:05] There is always going to be that irreducible level of life live but supplement it with much more synthetic will allow individuals to enter into that live environment with a lot more experience and having made their mistakes in safe environments.

[00:23:18] But I think for me perhaps the most important thing that synthetics will bring to the future is that ability to enable people to train from the point of need dialing in from wherever they are to train and it will really allow our lives spread across continents to train together on a much more routine or frequent basis to ensure we're ready.

[00:23:35] And I think that that for me is the biggest thing that synthetics will bring it is bridging the gap and bridging that distance that we have with our allies.

[00:23:43] Well, thank you so much for sharing your insights and everything around project Odyssey today and I'm curious if I was to ask you to look back on your own career I suspect that all your time working with technology in this area you would have picked up a few stories of your own throughout your career so it's any memorable stories you're able to share with everyone listening to do and our conversation today.

[00:24:05] Absolutely so without a doubt my most memorable experience was taking to the skies in the advanced or jet trainer and flying through the Mac leap and whales on a sunny day for anyone that's from Wales I promise that there are those sunny days.

[00:24:18] I really felt like I was learning my best top gun life it was incredibly cool to do some of the aerobatics over the sea and I can honestly say I never realized how long it takes to complete that loop when I watch the red arrows display so it was it was great to get the feel.

[00:24:31] But it actually gave me a great insight into the physical the physiological factors that pilots experience drawing live training but it also taught me that pilots have the best office view.

[00:24:41] Absolutely please tell me were you shouting top gun lines were you doing it did you feel the need for speed did you go ballistic did you say you are just as that did you get all that your system well up in there.

[00:24:52] There was definitely some cheering and we pin as we were doing some barrel rolls over the sea so yeah absolutely and from now on I'd like to call Charlie as my as many calls sign.

[00:25:02] This my next question what is your call sign absolutely love it and for anyone listening wanting to dig a little bit deeper on project RDC the work you're doing or just want to contact you or your team where would the best starting point for everything.

[00:25:15] Yeah absolutely WW dot B A students dot com forward slash a dash training also well I'll get that added to the show notes so people can find you nice easy we covered so much in a short amount of time today incredible exciting work that you're doing and I love the collaboration aspect

[00:25:31] across so many different partners and the diversity of thought that goes with that as well but more than just thank you for sharing a story today.

[00:25:38] Thank you very much for having me now as we wrap up our conversation on the transformative potential of project Odyssey I think it's evident that the future of military training is on the cusp of somewhat paradigm shift because the project innovative approach to create a unified synthetic training environment.

[00:25:57] For me underscores the pivotal role of technology in reshaping defense strategies for the 21st century but the heart of all this is through collaborations that bridge the gap between defense needs and commercial technological capabilities.

[00:26:11] And exemplifies how agility innovation and a commitment to sustain ability can collectively come together to meet some of the complex demands but what are your thoughts on the role of technology in military training preparedness manufacturing so many different areas that we discussed today please share your insights with me by emailing me tech blog writer outlook dot com Twitter link to an Instagram just at the LC use look here your thoughts on this one so let's continue to explore the world.

[00:26:41] The intersection of technology strategy and human potential in our quest for a safer more connected future will be back tomorrow with a completely different topic of how technology is impacting our world and business and life but more than anything just thank you for listening today and until next time don't be a stranger.

[00:27:11] you