2847: Algorithms vs. Aspirations: Navigating the Digital-Financial Divide

[00:00:00] He seems at the moment we are all at the mercy of AI and algorithms.

[00:00:07] We must be honest, they determine that next binge-worthy box set that we're going to consume

[00:00:13] or even what song we listen to, what product we might want to buy.

[00:00:18] Even new listeners to this podcast will be determined by an AI algorithm

[00:00:23] but this gets much more serious when it comes to getting your hands on credit.

[00:00:28] Maybe you want to buy a car or buy a house or find a way of consolidating your existing debt.

[00:00:34] But when you try to do any of these things, you can be greeted with a simple computer says no.

[00:00:39] So where do you go from here? Financial wellbeing is not taught in schools

[00:00:44] so you don't have the essential tools to help you and all you're left with is that computer says no message.

[00:00:50] And all that is coupled with stigma around finances and debt consolidation.

[00:00:56] So today I want to find out more about a company that is leveraging technology and knowledge

[00:01:01] to arm you with the tools that you need to improve your financial wellbeing.

[00:01:06] And to do just that, I've found someone that is at the forefront of transforming how we interact with our finances.

[00:01:13] He is the co CEO and co founder of a company called Lockbox, spelled L-O-Q-B-O-X

[00:01:20] and they are a pioneering financial wellbeing business that is dedicated to helping individuals enhance their credit scores,

[00:01:28] grow their savings and ultimately improve their financial situations.

[00:01:33] And in a world where the cost of living is ever increasing

[00:01:37] and financial systems in place are more complex than ever before.

[00:01:42] Today's guest and his team are committed to making finance more accessible.

[00:01:47] Using technology to lift people up great opportunities for richer lives.

[00:01:51] So today we're going to explore the vital role that companies like Lockbox can play in addressing the ongoing financial challenges that so many face,

[00:01:59] the importance of financial education and the innovative solutions designed to foster a healthier relationship with money.

[00:02:07] Now before we go into today's interview though, I just wanted to talk for a moment about how legacy managed file transfer tools are becoming data

[00:02:16] unlike the security that today's remote workforce demands.

[00:02:19] And companies that continue relying on outdated technology are putting their sensitive data at risk

[00:02:26] because managed file transfer or MFT is a technology platform that allows organizations to reliably exchange electronic data between systems and people

[00:02:35] within an outside enterprise securely and in compliance with applicable regulations.

[00:02:41] As an XIT guy and a host of a tech podcast, making it easier for end users to send automated ad hoc files for via

[00:02:48] fully integrated shared folders and email in a secure way, tick so many boxes for me.

[00:02:53] So please step into the future of secured managed file transfer with kiteworks, visit kiteworks.com to get started.

[00:03:00] That's kiteworks.com to get started today and now on with today's show.

[00:03:06] So book a lot and hold on tight as I beam your ears all the way to London here in the UK where the co CEO and co-founder of Lockbox is waiting to speak with us today.

[00:03:18] So a massive warm welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:03:26] Absolutely. So my name is Greg and I am one of the co CEOs and co-founders on business called Lockbox which is a financial well-being business whose mission is to give everyone access to a richer life.

[00:03:40] My background that I spent 20 years working for in public accounting with KPMG. I never worked from the UK out or traveled all over the world with my start in Brazil, went through Southeast Asia, North East Asia and then I finished on.

[00:03:54] Via Central Asia in Moscow and that throughout that time it was an effort opportunity for me to observe how financially excluded people behave and the impacts that the financial systems have on them in both emerging markets and very developed markets.

[00:04:14] And interestingly the big takeaway is the impact is much the same albeit with different levels of importance in terms of survival versus pain.

[00:04:27] If you're in the emerging markets it could be a matter of life from death whereas in the more developed markets there's usually some sort of safety.

[00:04:34] Wow, it's an incredible back story there. It took you all around the world of a variety of roles. I've so much to unpack so I've got to ask you your origin story or more importantly the inspiration behind Lockbox and how you envision this transforming the financial system to main finance more accessible especially for those affected by the cost of living crisis.

[00:04:55] It seems that your travel had a lot to do with that but can you tell me a little bit more about the inspiration behind the company?

[00:05:02] Well, absolutely. So when I left I finished with KPMG in 2016 and I left Russia I moved back to the UK and I was looking for how to best use my time.

[00:05:12] Having had a very rewarding career with KPMG I was looking for something a little bit more because KPMG and for those who don't know is one of the big four professional services firms that provide accounting tax and advisory services to large corporates over the world.

[00:05:30] It's a great business but it's an aim or business. It's not for good, it's not for bad. It'll work with big farmer, big tobacco. They'll also work with not for profits and charities.

[00:05:41] So it's very much just an aim or business that chases the feeds.

[00:05:45] I was looking for something more than that and I had been incredible good fortune of being introduced to my now co-founder Tom Ehr who has to occur in military intelligence with the British Army.

[00:05:57] I had got overseas and worked in Kazakhstan. We'd both worked in Kazakhstan, that's why we were introduced actually.

[00:06:03] He'd been selling and investing investments and other financial products to expatriates in Kazakhstan and Shanghai.

[00:06:12] He then moved back to the UK and set up a corporate debt advisory business at the beginning of the financial crisis understanding called corporates would need help.

[00:06:20] And in the course of that a couple of things happened. First of all, debt advisory business, that corporate debt advisory business bought or a corporate restructuring business body, a personal debt advisory business and it was Tom's partner that did that.

[00:06:36] Tom looked over this sort of chapter, shoulders saw really firsthand the negative impacts if you get it wrong as an individual of the UK.

[00:06:44] And he took that together with the experiences he's happy to see in Kazakhstan, Shanghai and elsewhere and started to think is this right.

[00:06:52] Psychopathic happiness, Tom's sister, Lauren graduated from girlfriend school and got a good job in the city.

[00:06:59] So exactly the climate profile of person you would think large lending organizations would be interested in helping fulfill their aspirations.

[00:07:08] When she went to buy a sofa for her first Latin London with a nice job behind her.

[00:07:13] I think it was three pounds a week of credit was of interest. We credit was suggested to her by myself, which he was ready to buy it.

[00:07:20] Then she said, OK, I'll take that and you put type to us the details into the system and the computer said no.

[00:07:26] And so firsthand Tom's sister was being financially excluded by the system even though as I say, like the perfect profile of person you would think the system would want to do.

[00:07:36] So that got him to set up his first financial well-being business, which was a business called credit and prugor.

[00:07:43] So then I can back slide into the stories to hit right at this point coming back with looking to set myself up as an angel investor but with three very specific criteria in mind.

[00:07:54] The first was that my investments have to be an industry I knew and I'd always worked in the financial services stream of KPMG.

[00:08:01] The second was it had to be scalable so that's in technology.

[00:08:06] And so that took me into FinTech.

[00:08:08] And then the third and they were all equally important but the further was very important to me and as I discovered also for Tom was it had to be a force for good.

[00:08:16] It had to be a positive force for social good and for social change.

[00:08:21] And on the back of that I met Tom looking for an investment into credit and prefer and I invested into that as a minority shareholder.

[00:08:29] And then as the this was 2016 and as the year went on and we kind of realized that the parts of the financial well-being problem that credit and river was in point solving, we kind of took a step back and we resaid.

[00:08:42] We had the idea for lock box which rates in road but Christmas at 16 and then we went we kind of had this pain in the light bulb moment.

[00:08:51] We actually could we could take this forward in a very different way and we looked each other in the eye it was a success of business but very different business.

[00:08:58] And we said let's go into this as partners and Tom we've been doing that ever since but from end to the fact so that was how we got there.

[00:09:06] I mean why was that interested in financial well-being for the reasons that I was seeing earlier I got all around the world and I see the impact but it can have if the system doesn't work in your favor.

[00:09:16] Countries like Thailand countries like Kazakhstan where she faced a wrong it's it can be properly game work for you.

[00:09:24] Well how an incredible story and as forward to present day of course with the FCA highlighting that one in four adults are currently in financial difficulty or on the brink.

[00:09:35] I've got to ask how does lock box specifically aim to support individuals facing these challenges in the current climate because it's a problem that we're seeing all over the world right now isn't it.

[00:09:47] Oh, 100% and the statistics are awful so that one in four is facing financial difficulties and another way of looking at this is 11.7 million adults in the UK which is roughly one in four.

[00:10:00] Can not put their hands on 100 pounds as we speak which means the fridge breaks the car breaks you know your kids in school uniform doesn't matter you can do it.

[00:10:11] You are in all sorts of water and 51% of the UK adults and do not have an emergency fund to cover three months of cost lose your job what do you do.

[00:10:23] So and so you and then your add into that the escalating cost of absolutely everything and it's only getting worse.

[00:10:31] So and I mentioned at the outset the mission of block boxes to give everyone access to a richer life and with every business you choose your mission words every single word you're very carefully hopefully it sounds like it flows but it's been every single word is being ought about.

[00:10:47] So the first word to draw attention to is everyone this is for anyone we don't want anyone locks that we don't anyone to face the stress and pain of not understanding money of not being able to deal with money and therefore getting into difficulty.

[00:11:03] The second word to draw attention to is the word richer itself because and here's the thing that a lot of people don't necessarily understand unless you draw their attention to it nobody cares about money really.

[00:11:16] People care about the things they can get with money the things they can do with money people don't most people there are some but they don't sit kind of over there over their little talk can to their cash what they what they're doing is they're worried about whether or not they're going to be able to get the school uniform pay the bills all of that stuff.

[00:11:33] So yes it's richer in terms of being actually objectively better off that much more important is that double meaning of what living a sort of filled life or richer life or filled life achieving your goals without money getting in the way and that's what money that that's what we're all about.

[00:11:53] We think that there's three things that you need to do in order to achieve that in your life and this is the crux of how we think a lot looks we can help with this problem.

[00:12:04] The first is by far in a way the most important which is what is the worst thing about money if you don't understand it it's stressful if it's stressful then it affects every aspect of your life in it but the same little largest lost productivity statistic in the UK

[00:12:22] that mysteries of work is from stress and this single largest cause of stress is financial stress.

[00:12:29] So how do you de-stress money well first of all you have to understand it so financial education is absolutely essential but not it's not education on its own it's education and habit building because you got build up those good habits so that they become muscle memory

[00:12:45] and if you don't lean into your finances rather than sticking your head in the ground or leaning back and leaning away then it's amazing how just addressing an issue removes the stress so labor that deliberately because that's the most important if you don't have that you can't fix the rest.

[00:13:01] The second thing that you need to access a richer life is the best possible financial profile public financial profile in order to access the best financial products and services at the cheapest prices.

[00:13:17] So what does that mean in layman's towers it means a good credit score you get a good credit score then you're that's hygiene you're setting yourself up for success and the differential price but the cost of a poor credit score versus a good credit score in a report released just at the beginning of the year by credit karma is the difference between over the course of your life it could cost you they estimated 272,000 pounds.

[00:13:47] In additional interest costs over the course of a lifetime if you take into account you pay more for your pay more for everything you pay more for your credit card you pay more for your mortgage you pay more for it and I'm secured alone for your car for everything and they've extrapolated that up and it's worse for people young people in their 20s the average cost per year is 8 pounds and pounds people versus an average of 5,000 pounds so the young are unjured they penalized by the start of the credit karma and you're not going to be able to do that.

[00:14:17] For your listeners are not familiar is a credit score and report provider in the UK also in the US so that education and habits financial profile and credit building credit score building and then the third thing of course if you go to live a richer life you objectively need more money.

[00:14:33] So let's start building that seedlings nest egg so first of all get your emergency fund in place and you're we've already said 51% of Brits don't have it and so get those three months of costs in place and and let's get those 11.7 million people who can't save 100 and they don't have a hundred pounds let's get them saving the average one of our features will come to ensure and is lock box save and and you build your credit history while you're saved the average saving

[00:15:03] of somebody who uses lock box Steve over 12 months is 540 pounds so we're able to help elevate people out of that that very bottom difficult thing and then once you've got your emergency fund it's into building your savings try to understand the best place to grow them and then moving into wealth enhancement and eventually to to pensions retirement and all of that.

[00:15:23] So that's how we can have conceptualize the framework of everything we do at say a lot of such a powerful message that you're delivering here and it's such an important one as well and I've often thought and I've said many times on this podcast that I think we all in education for most part I don't remember ever getting any education around managing money managing your finances managing your credit is the most important skill that you'll probably need throughout your entire life up there with reading and writing of course.

[00:15:53] And he's just not taught in schools and the most part many people leave education with a whole heap of debt from university and then they're going to go to get a loan like your example very early on the market some credit there and an AI algorithm or credit school will say no and it's wise this happened considering the project to grow in credit scoring services like you mentioned you mentioned credit karma which is a big one here in the UK.

[00:16:20] Where does lock box playing or where does it fit in playing that role in educating consumers about credit and the implications of signing up for credit products fantastic work you're doing it just saddened me that we're still not educating people as they're in the education system.

[00:16:38] Right well you tell us the number of really crucial things there so you're absolutely right education and there have been sporadic to terms by government which have not worked to embed some form of financial education there's been some sporadic efforts by private individuals like Lewis for example has had some very noble goals trying to help.

[00:16:57] Introduce finance financial education into the education system but the reality is that for like certainly here in the marital where we've got lot locks is operating and you know we spent.

[00:17:10] It's been handed out at 16 or 18 into this white world 18 for credit so 18 years old out into the white world they they might know how to help you and 10 digit is 11 digits but they won't necessarily know what APR means or we can see it at every level you actually that they don't know the difference between our loan and the credit card and crucially they don't understand that both have to be repaid and so I knew your point about education is absolutely massive and that's why when we look at that system for lock box.

[00:17:40] The education and have a building is always the first piece and the most important piece because without that you have nothing it in terms of like helping people to understand.

[00:17:50] A credit and credit products well to a large extent that it's about how you how you kind of do things so it's the doing rather than not doing but let's take one step back before yet into India how much helps you to do that and but we will look at credit is it's worth.

[00:18:10] It's placing people seeking credit into two groups those who are aspirational news or desperate to as aspiration versus desperation if you're end up at the end of the month and you count me can meet because you've not been taught how to budget or you don't you or actually increasing now you just can't because of the cost of living I mean that is a very real thing that's happening but let's take the slightly more effort we just you could possibly make it work if you be taught how to do it better

[00:18:38] and you get to the end of the month and you want to kind of borrow well that I'm classified as it's not that's not what I would say was aspirational boring that's boring to the kids meet.

[00:18:48] However if you are born in a village in the north of England and the closest place to work is a three hour drive away in those no birth bus service and you need a car in order to be able to be economically active or willing money to buy a car well that's an aspirational purchase and that's a very sensible use of credit so

[00:19:07] the old added my father taught me never a borrower or lender B is actually in the current UK's current financial system climate very bad advice because you then miss out on the aspirational

[00:19:21] borrowings that allow you to progress in life but more importantly if you don't start because of the way the system is packed and created if you don't start by borrowing something then the system will always assume that you are unable to repay a loan

[00:19:36] and you will never be able to borrow anything so you get to that moment in time where I get how do I apply for a job oh I need access to internet I need a phone I'll get a phone on a conch that though you won't because you've never borrowed anything

[00:19:49] so the credit system doesn't know your existence doesn't believe in you so no you can't have that phone and therefore you can get that job so first of all we set the aspirational borrowing versus desperate borrowing

[00:20:01] and then we encourage people through all of our communications all of our learnings to pick your borrowing carefully so and once you for example if you need a credit card how are you going to use it

[00:20:13] credit card is a fantastic transactional tool but is not a great or into because it typically has very is very expensive way to borrow money

[00:20:23] so if you're a young person you're getting access to say a 39% interest rate on your IP other and you carry a balance that's a very expensive way to borrow money

[00:20:32] however using a credit card because it allows you to kind of have a single payment within your bank account once a month where you clear your balance and it helps you understand because the way that the statement is laid out it helps you understand where your spending is going

[00:20:46] rather than having all kind of in and out and in and out of bank accounts well that's actually a really sensible use of a credit card so we teach people things like that

[00:20:56] and then the second thing that we do is through our different features so that's the education apart but through our different features we actually teach by doing

[00:21:05] so one of our features is called lot box grow for example lot box grow allows you instead of paying your lot box memberships and subscriptions

[00:21:14] we have two memberships we have a free membership at a paid for membership and the and they have a different but they have lots of different features in them

[00:21:21] but in the paid for membership if you use lot box grow you can host pay your weekly membership at the end of the month one time instead of paying it four times over the course of the month off your debit card and advance

[00:21:34] so if you consume a service before you pay for it that is the textbook definition of credit that allows us to then report that to the credit reference agencies which then builds your credit history and builds your credit score

[00:21:47] with every payment we have a whole load of email interactions explaining to our members why they're doing this why it's important to settle off your bill

[00:21:58] but if you miss the payment then it reflects badly on your credit history and if you do pay it however it reflects very well on your credit history

[00:22:07] and what we're effectively doing is teaching them exactly how to manage that very dangerous tool that we just talked about the credit card

[00:22:15] so that when they finish with lot box and they're ready to just move into the show we say the real credit world where they're using transactional tools to achieve their goals

[00:22:25] they've already got a mindset that habit building up we talked about is already big since everything we do

[00:22:31] now and just to bring everybody listening into this conversation well people scattered all around the world nothing innovative toolbox for financial health is just completely priceless

[00:22:41] so just to speak with any potential users of your platform here can you elaborate on some of those unique tools that lock box offers

[00:22:49] you mentioned one grow there there's others I think save rent and coach collectively had all these contribute to enhancing of an individual's financial well being

[00:22:59] well the more of our tools you use the better outcomes you're going to get financially and it's at one price so you can pick your basket you don't pay more

[00:23:07] each one that you add in so we would encourage you to take advantage of all of the different all of the different tools

[00:23:13] so lot box grew we talked about lot works save you build your credit history while you save so we've kind of innovatively taken our savings payments

[00:23:22] and we flip them into being loan repayments we always do is we lock up when you culturalize we lock up some of money away that you can't touch

[00:23:31] and then and that and then we kind of lend each away effectively lending you that money but you can't touch it to keep it safe

[00:23:38] and then you repay that the loan to to equal that some of money so let's see you say put it put away you want to put away 20 pounds a month

[00:23:46] 2040 pounds a year so we'll lock that 240 pounds up in your lock box as where the town came from originally

[00:23:53] and then you'll pay 20 pounds a month of loan repayments at 0% EPR back to us and at the end of it we've got your 240 pounds

[00:24:04] unlocked that lock box for you when we give it back to you so you've saved and that example 240 pounds but each of those repayments has been reported to the three main UK credit reference agencies

[00:24:15] expiriate aquifax and transunit and that and that's built your credit credit history with lot box grow at the average credit score increase

[00:24:25] and you get over the course of a year with lot boxes 197 points and with lot box save it's 145 points and if you use them together that can be contents above that

[00:24:36] and to put that into context for those who are not familiar with the UK credit the expiriate credit scores system is the one we tend to reflect

[00:24:44] then it's a score from 0 to 999 so if you're starting it say for 400 and you get at 200 point increase that takes you up to 600 put that into context the savings in terms of the cost of borrowing that you get

[00:25:00] at that higher score versus that lower score what could run to the tens of thousands of pounds of the course of your life so it's a really good price to value exchange for a consumer

[00:25:10] yes it costs you 130 pounds over a year but you could end up saving well the credit karma would have you believe 270 to 1000 we're a bit more conservative than our onwards we tend to see 20 to 50 thousand

[00:25:22] pounds over the course of 25 years and before you came on the podcast today I was reading that since I'm your launch I think lot box has helped something like

[00:25:31] a million people to dramatically improve their financial situation and I'm curious do you get to hear any particularly impactful success stories or get any feedback

[00:25:41] they're just to highlight the overall impact that you're having at lot box and the impact that's had on your members financial help

[00:25:48] do you get to hear any of these stories because I would imagine if you do they will just keep y'alling you to keep doing what you're doing but do you

[00:25:56] get to hear those still we get wonderful stories we we go we go and ask some of our members to come and told us we film and we get I mean there's some heart wrenching starting stories but the heart warming by the end

[00:26:08] and I should actually just say that it's actually we're just shy of two now we should actually now we need to let's as statistic I keep on forgetting to ask our guys to update so we're really getting some real traction

[00:26:21] and it's made a UK based which is really exciting and we're I think the most recent credit building business or trust pilots as well so you know two free for those listeners going to have a look at that's our trust pilot reviews but there's so so many new and we've had guys like what pray pragmatic

[00:26:38] yes go back to the fight with car finance story we're the guy who had some trouble I think the divorce and then a bit of trouble in his credit history in the past

[00:26:46] he built his score up with using locks and refinanced his car and in the year I think the year or two years following the refinance saved himself one treasure four hundred pounds

[00:26:56] and so that was lovely but by far away my favorite is we had a lady who this is quite quite a whole one but it's just it touched such a court because it and particularly this cost of living crisis

[00:27:07] that we're living through now it really chimes it was a lady who she wrote to us and said every year comes to September it's the start of school

[00:27:17] and I can't and I go into a sweat about getting the new school uniform from my kid this year I unlocked my lock box even August

[00:27:25] I took my I took the savings out we went to the shop we bought the uniform there was some money left over to spare my credit scores gone up

[00:27:32] actually very much I've started my lock box for next year already so incredible story man and of course you can't do any of this on your own

[00:27:40] and I would imagine there's a fair amount of partnerships here in fact before again before you came on I was doing that research

[00:27:45] I was reading the got partners with organizations far and wide from TSP clear score and step change to name but a few

[00:27:53] how do these partnerships help you enhance the services that lock box provides and so and ultimately supports that mission of financial inclusion

[00:28:01] because as I said you can't already own a these partnerships must be a big part of what you do too

[00:28:06] we absolutely couldn't do it all and our partnerships are everything we work with these some really inspiration

[00:28:13] on amazing businesses in the human and charities in the name three of them there

[00:28:18] and the way we look at partnerships is we can then we separate them into kind of three buckets

[00:28:23] so you've got you've got kind of opposition acquisition as a member acquisition and doing the right thing

[00:28:31] and you that those three are those three are as a great three examples actually and they're on all the website

[00:28:37] and it's a great example because that touches all three because and there's crossover of course

[00:28:41] because you know for example clear scores are a very ethical business that that really like really wants to help people

[00:28:47] by helping by educating them about credits for as much improve et cetera

[00:28:52] and so there's a lot of crossover but if you look at it so proper TSP is proposition in this case

[00:28:57] for example so we very early they took a bet on us which was for a large and competitive bank

[00:29:03] quite a good thing to do with it we we partnered with them in early 2018

[00:29:08] so we'd only been going for a year and they took a bet on us which was which was like inspiration to see

[00:29:13] because you don't see that in the banking sector so often.

[00:29:17] But how's that proposition so thanks to TSP that's one of the accounts that you can unlock your rock box seed savings into

[00:29:23] and then the instead of us having to charge you for that TSP will pay us a commission for introduction

[00:29:30] so that's the proper us a proposition partner then you've got kind of a member acquisition

[00:29:35] so how do we find these two million people that we'd be helping and one of the big groups that we do is we go to businesses

[00:29:42] who are providing services that they're not able to provide because people's credit scores are not sufficiently active

[00:29:49] so clear score and credit karma we want with both are there both free credit score and poor providers

[00:29:56] classified in FinTech land as aggregators data aggregators which means they aggregate offers

[00:30:01] and in this case you build your credit score up why so you can get that aspirational credit

[00:30:06] so they have panels of credit offers that knowing your credit score you're going to have a good chance of being accepted for

[00:30:13] and if you go through their panels and you get to the bottom and you haven't seen what you're looking for

[00:30:18] a lot of books can sit there and it's kind of the message as well

[00:30:24] you're not quite ready for the cost and borrowing that you're going to get or maybe you get no offers at all

[00:30:30] why don't you try lot box build up your credit score come back and when you build your credit score come back again

[00:30:35] in the future and we'll help you out there and then during the right thing step change

[00:30:39] so sometimes sadly people come to lot box we open our doors to everyone as we said

[00:30:45] but sometimes they come and the people who are already very overindicted

[00:30:50] so we've got too much debt they can't service it expensive

[00:30:53] and what they then do or we then do as we say to them look

[00:30:57] lot box is not what you need right now you need help to consolidate your debt

[00:31:02] or to come up get enter a debt management plan so that you can get debt free in the future

[00:31:08] and then come back to lot box and will help you reestablish yourself

[00:31:12] and you'll help you already have had a lot of education from step change

[00:31:16] and hopefully you'll never get back into that situation again

[00:31:20] so they're the three kind of buckets of partnerships that we look at

[00:31:24] and I will imagine as well as financial trends and challenges continue to evolve

[00:31:29] I've got to ask as we look towards it maybe even uncertain future

[00:31:33] what future developments do you foresee in the realm of financial wellbeing

[00:31:37] and you must be keeping a very close eye on this situation

[00:31:41] and also how are you at lot box preparing to meet some of these challenges

[00:31:45] and some of these challenges

[00:31:47] right so I mean this is the absolute number

[00:31:50] so we talked a little bit about this a little bit on the course of the chance

[00:31:53] so far yeah but I think there's kind of two distinct groups that you can kind of look at

[00:31:58] there's group number one are people who are their financial wellbeing suffers

[00:32:06] because they don't engage with their finances

[00:32:09] but they have actually I mean everyone would like more

[00:32:13] but they've got enough money to survive even in the cost of living crisis

[00:32:17] but what's happening is they've never wanted to they've never planned

[00:32:20] and the cost of living rises and they're starting to find a different difficulty

[00:32:23] and they find their stress

[00:32:25] that's one group the second group is the group who this they just don't have enough money

[00:32:30] and they'll be struggling

[00:32:32] and they were struggling when the cost of living was here

[00:32:35] the cost of living is now here

[00:32:37] and it's now gone up to here

[00:32:39] and they just don't have enough money

[00:32:42] so for the first group the answer is all about education

[00:32:46] and the habit building we talked about before

[00:32:49] much more important for them than even the credit building

[00:32:52] credit building is hygiene

[00:32:53] but it's face-in to lean into your finances

[00:32:56] start to take the effort to try and understand

[00:32:59] use all the tools available to you build them up

[00:33:02] and I think that's going to be absolutely crucial for that group

[00:33:05] but the second group it's all about the stematars in it

[00:33:10] the situation and getting the conversation

[00:33:13] the financial conversation going

[00:33:16] and I think that's part there's an effort by every lever of society

[00:33:20] there's not for profits who can help with that

[00:33:22] like Stetchains or others

[00:33:24] there's government can play a role in terms of encouraging people not to feel bad

[00:33:27] if they're struggling with money

[00:33:29] and business as well

[00:33:31] so we were just invited by business in the community

[00:33:34] to join their task force on the cost of living crisis

[00:33:38] along with businesses such as TSP

[00:33:41] we've already mentioned

[00:33:42] AXA or VOL, there's a number of others

[00:33:44] like really impressive businesses

[00:33:46] so it's really an incumbent

[00:33:50] I think on these businesses to start for lagging

[00:33:53] where people can get help

[00:33:55] so don't just you know

[00:33:56] for example you haven't paid your

[00:33:58] it's just picking up

[00:33:59] you haven't paid your telephone bill

[00:34:01] don't just chounders straight into a clatchings process

[00:34:05] I like really clearly

[00:34:06] where you go to like are you struggling

[00:34:08] go and speak to the money advice service

[00:34:10] go and speak to Stetchains

[00:34:12] it'll make it really helpful for them

[00:34:14] it's really easy for people

[00:34:15] and make them feel like

[00:34:17] they're not banned people

[00:34:19] because they got this bit wrong

[00:34:21] because it's complicated

[00:34:22] it's difficult

[00:34:23] and the cost of living really is rising

[00:34:25] so I think then it's about getting that conversation

[00:34:27] going for that first group

[00:34:28] and for the second group

[00:34:29] it's about destigmatizing

[00:34:30] the whole problem

[00:34:31] so that they seek help

[00:34:33] as soon as they possibly can

[00:34:35] and they don't wait

[00:34:36] there's nothing worse

[00:34:37] for your mental well-being

[00:34:39] than sitting

[00:34:40] going like this

[00:34:41] or for your finances

[00:34:42] oh no, what am I going to do?

[00:34:44] how can I make ends meet

[00:34:45] as soon as you start having that conversation

[00:34:48] Stetchains I can release that

[00:34:50] I think 31% of people

[00:34:52] as soon as they've had the first conversation

[00:34:54] it's outfought an enormous sense of relief

[00:34:57] that the conversation is now happening

[00:34:59] a solution has been generated

[00:35:01] and to do that you've got to destigmatize the problem

[00:35:04] so true, everything is saying that

[00:35:06] and I would imagine we've got people listening

[00:35:08] all around the world

[00:35:09] and financial well-being

[00:35:11] is I think it's unique

[00:35:13] for every single individual

[00:35:14] no matter where anybody listening is

[00:35:16] and I suspect that those words

[00:35:18] that you just mentioned there

[00:35:19] about sitting there

[00:35:20] roaring

[00:35:21] how they're going to find

[00:35:22] their next payment

[00:35:23] how they're going to navigate forward

[00:35:25] how they're going to plan for their future

[00:35:26] these are all things

[00:35:27] that you've got

[00:35:28] you've got you can speak directly into their ear now

[00:35:30] so for that person

[00:35:31] that is sat there now

[00:35:32] maybe they are concerned

[00:35:33] they need to take that step

[00:35:35] they know they need to take that step

[00:35:36] but what advice would you give

[00:35:38] to that individual

[00:35:39] looking to improve their financial health

[00:35:41] and credit score

[00:35:42] so they can be the master of their own

[00:35:44] in a destiny

[00:35:45] and succeeding today's economic environment

[00:35:48] probably the most important thing

[00:35:50] that you can do is start today

[00:35:53] so you know

[00:35:54] this is one of Tom's favorite lines

[00:35:56] like that very happily

[00:35:58] when it's the best time

[00:36:00] to plan to tree

[00:36:02] or 50 years ago

[00:36:04] where's the second best time

[00:36:05] to plan to tree

[00:36:06] today

[00:36:07] so you've got to start building

[00:36:10] if don't put it off

[00:36:11] so if you think about

[00:36:13] the elements of general well-being

[00:36:16] you've got to go

[00:36:17] you've got your physical well-being

[00:36:18] your mental well-being

[00:36:19] and your financial well-being

[00:36:20] if in that triangle

[00:36:22] any one of those is off

[00:36:24] the others will fall off as well

[00:36:26] so we understand that

[00:36:29] and understand that your financial well-being

[00:36:31] is as important

[00:36:32] as your mental well-being

[00:36:33] and your physical well-being

[00:36:35] even though

[00:36:36] it's only been very recently

[00:36:38] that people have started to talk about it

[00:36:40] so if you go back in time

[00:36:42] you go back to the ETs

[00:36:44] and people started to take agency

[00:36:45] over their physical well-being

[00:36:47] your gene funder fitness

[00:36:49] is then moved into weight watchers

[00:36:51] and all of that stuff

[00:36:52] and now you fast forward to today

[00:36:54] and there's about thousands

[00:36:55] of different apps

[00:36:56] to help you stay on top of your fitness

[00:36:58] nobody ever takes a second

[00:37:01] or takes a second thought

[00:37:02] about considering

[00:37:03] their personal physical well-being

[00:37:05] so they're fine

[00:37:06] the mental well-being

[00:37:08] started a little bit later

[00:37:09] the early 2000s

[00:37:11] people are no much more prepared

[00:37:13] in the workplace

[00:37:14] in the home environment

[00:37:15] to talk about their mental well-being

[00:37:17] and to treat it

[00:37:18] as something that needs to be cared for

[00:37:20] do this even with your financial well-being

[00:37:22] because if your financial well-being

[00:37:25] falls off

[00:37:26] you can be darn sure

[00:37:27] you're going to stop exercising

[00:37:28] you're going to be darn sure

[00:37:29] you're going to feel stressed

[00:37:30] and you're really going to feel

[00:37:32] feel the pinch there

[00:37:34] and it's a very negative spiral

[00:37:36] so yeah start not out

[00:37:38] because you need to recognize

[00:37:40] that this is a very important part

[00:37:43] of your overall well-being

[00:37:45] and testic advice

[00:37:46] I really have a very powerful moment

[00:37:48] to end our discussion today

[00:37:49] but I cannot thank you enough

[00:37:51] for sharing your insights

[00:37:52] I'm going to ask you to leave everyone listening

[00:37:53] with one final gift

[00:37:55] I'm going to put my look here

[00:37:56] and we have an Amazon wish list

[00:37:58] where I asked my guest to leave

[00:38:00] a book that means something to them

[00:38:02] they'd recommend so people can check that out

[00:38:05] or a song to address

[00:38:06] Spotify playlists

[00:38:07] all I'm going to ask though

[00:38:09] what would you like to leave

[00:38:10] everyone listening with it why

[00:38:12] I'm going to go

[00:38:13] I'm an English literature graduate

[00:38:15] so I'd be credentialed by society

[00:38:16] for reading books

[00:38:17] I've got an old book

[00:38:18] but as I can fit through the books

[00:38:23] that I've loved

[00:38:24] I've seen a canon of great literature

[00:38:27] and I've been fortunate enough

[00:38:28] to have had the time to read a lot of it

[00:38:30] but I'm not going to

[00:38:32] I'm not going to touch on any of them

[00:38:34] but focusing on a very sharp book

[00:38:36] with a very simple message

[00:38:38] that comes from 1970

[00:38:40] and it's a book called

[00:38:42] Jonathan Livingston Seagull

[00:38:44] by Richard Bach

[00:38:45] and it's a story of a Seagull

[00:38:48] who he doesn't want to go

[00:38:50] and chase the fishy boats

[00:38:52] and fidescrap the food

[00:38:53] he wants to learn how to fly perfectly

[00:38:56] and as a consequence of that

[00:38:58] he's shunned by his flock

[00:39:00] and eventually he kicked out

[00:39:02] and then it moves into different

[00:39:03] I would avoid spoiler alerts

[00:39:05] for the listeners who want to read it

[00:39:07] it moves into a spiritual element

[00:39:09] and it was very much

[00:39:10] came from the chanter culture

[00:39:11] era of the late 60s

[00:39:13] and the late 60s and early 70s

[00:39:16] and the reason I found that

[00:39:19] so inspirational is because

[00:39:21] it tells you to pursue your dreams

[00:39:23] but only if you need try

[00:39:25] it focuses on relentless curiosity

[00:39:28] which is one of the lockbox

[00:39:29] corporate values

[00:39:30] and if you're seeking

[00:39:32] if you're constantly curious

[00:39:33] you will get great outcomes in life

[00:39:35] and I locked it because

[00:39:37] it says chase your dreams

[00:39:39] and if you try hard enough

[00:39:40] they'll come true

[00:39:41] and as I go older that

[00:39:42] back in the 20s

[00:39:44] I read it first in the mid 90s

[00:39:46] and back in my 20s

[00:39:47] I was just really excited

[00:39:48] by pursuing your dreams

[00:39:50] and then now as I got older

[00:39:52] and perhaps as I got my

[00:39:54] burst of synth

[00:39:55] my own mortality

[00:39:56] the spiritual element means

[00:39:58] a little bit more to me

[00:39:59] I read it again quite recently

[00:40:00] so it's quite fresh and wide

[00:40:02] you and me both

[00:40:04] my friend absolutely love that

[00:40:05] I will get that added to my Amazon wishlist

[00:40:07] but anybody wanting to check out

[00:40:09] lockbox

[00:40:10] so it was the best

[00:40:11] the best starting point

[00:40:13] and equally if they want to contact

[00:40:14] you or your team

[00:40:15] or if you've got any questions

[00:40:16] or just want to find out

[00:40:17] more information

[00:40:18] well do you like to point

[00:40:19] everyone listening

[00:40:20] well I would say the best thing

[00:40:21] to do with our

[00:40:22] pure online business

[00:40:23] the best thing to do is

[00:40:24] www.com.co.x

[00:40:28] or just Google

[00:40:29] Google Lockbox

[00:40:31] if you're in the US

[00:40:33] then to get the full range of things

[00:40:36] that lockbox does then

[00:40:37] you need to find the GB site

[00:40:39] but everywhere else in the world

[00:40:41] you'll land on the GB site

[00:40:42] and at the very beginning

[00:40:44] of this podcast

[00:40:45] we said that according

[00:40:46] to the AppCA

[00:40:47] one in four adults

[00:40:48] are in financial trouble

[00:40:49] or on the brink

[00:40:50] of difficulty

[00:40:51] and I think when you combine that

[00:40:52] with higher interest rates

[00:40:54] higher fees driven

[00:40:55] by mainstream banks

[00:40:56] and landers

[00:40:57] that are tightening up

[00:40:58] borrowing criteria right now

[00:40:59] this has been

[00:41:00] increase economic

[00:41:01] turbulence and rising costs

[00:41:02] of financial products

[00:41:03] and I always say

[00:41:04] at the end of every episode

[00:41:05] of this show

[00:41:06] that technology works best

[00:41:07] when it brings people together

[00:41:09] and one of the things

[00:41:10] that attracted me to you

[00:41:11] and what you're doing

[00:41:12] and why I wanted to get you on here

[00:41:14] is since 2017

[00:41:16] you've been helping

[00:41:17] nearly two million people now

[00:41:19] build their credit scores

[00:41:20] improve their financial well-being

[00:41:22] and use technology

[00:41:23] to do just that

[00:41:24] and as a result

[00:41:25] if you leveraging

[00:41:26] that technology

[00:41:27] 88% of your members

[00:41:29] track their credit score

[00:41:30] have seen improvements

[00:41:31] and it is a variety of ways

[00:41:33] that we talked about there

[00:41:34] from save

[00:41:35] that free way to build a credit score

[00:41:37] without the need for a credit card

[00:41:39] that grow where you

[00:41:41] that introductory

[00:41:42] interest free credit account

[00:41:43] that members can use

[00:41:44] to boost their score

[00:41:45] and I think most importantly

[00:41:46] of all

[00:41:47] is the coaching feature

[00:41:48] that financial education

[00:41:50] told it helps

[00:41:51] members open up opportunities

[00:41:52] through simple steps

[00:41:53] tricks, hacks

[00:41:54] all these things

[00:41:55] that build confidence

[00:41:56] build knowledge

[00:41:57] build habits

[00:41:58] and I did say very early

[00:41:59] on in our conversations today

[00:42:00] it still pains me

[00:42:01] that we don't teach

[00:42:02] this stuff in school

[00:42:03] so kudos to you

[00:42:04] and your team there

[00:42:05] for leading the way

[00:42:06] leveraging technology

[00:42:07] to make a real difference

[00:42:08] to people's lives

[00:42:09] thanks for sharing your story

[00:42:10] today

[00:42:11] actually very much

[00:42:12] for having me on

[00:42:13] Nielits in an absolute pleasure

[00:42:14] wow what an incredibly cool guy

[00:42:16] and for me I think it's clear

[00:42:18] that the path

[00:42:19] to financial wellness

[00:42:20] is both a personal

[00:42:22] journey

[00:42:23] and a collective challenge

[00:42:25] and lockbox mission

[00:42:26] to provide tools

[00:42:27] to provide education

[00:42:28] to improve financial situations

[00:42:30] is more crucial than ever

[00:42:32] especially considering

[00:42:33] rising living costs

[00:42:34] economic uncertainty

[00:42:36] and for anyone

[00:42:38] looking to take control

[00:42:39] of their financial health

[00:42:41] from building credit scores

[00:42:42] to just managing savings

[00:42:44] more effectively

[00:42:45] I'd love to hear your thoughts

[00:42:47] today and how

[00:42:48] lockbox might be able

[00:42:49] to help you

[00:42:50] maybe some of them

[00:42:51] tools such as

[00:42:52] save, grow, rent

[00:42:53] and cope

[00:42:54] would appeal to you

[00:42:55] maybe they don't

[00:42:56] maybe you've got something

[00:42:57] else that you use

[00:42:58] maybe you've got other methods

[00:42:59] whatever it might be

[00:43:01] I'd love to hear your thoughts

[00:43:03] and the things

[00:43:04] that you're experiencing

[00:43:05] at the moment

[00:43:06] and how you're using technology

[00:43:07] to help you

[00:43:08] you can email me

[00:43:09] techblogri2outlook.com

[00:43:11] twitter linked in

[00:43:12] instagram just

[00:43:13] at nielchooves

[00:43:14] please I'd love to hear your thoughts

[00:43:16] on this let's

[00:43:17] keep this conversation going

[00:43:18] because

[00:43:19] other I said many times

[00:43:20] in this episode today

[00:43:21] nobody has to feel

[00:43:23] bad about anything here

[00:43:24] to bless

[00:43:26] my knowledge we still

[00:43:27] don't teach financial

[00:43:28] well-being in schools

[00:43:29] people are leaving education

[00:43:31] they've got mountains of debt

[00:43:32] and they don't have the

[00:43:34] tool set to drive them

[00:43:35] forward in this life

[00:43:36] and hopefully technology

[00:43:37] and tools like lockbox

[00:43:38] can help that

[00:43:39] so I hope this discussion

[00:43:40] was useful to you

[00:43:42] and it maybe

[00:43:43] it inspires you

[00:43:44] to take steps

[00:43:45] towards a financially

[00:43:46] healthier life

[00:43:47] but that's it

[00:43:48] from me today

[00:43:49] so thank you for listening

[00:43:50] as always

[00:43:51] and until next time

[00:43:52] don't be a stranger