2849: PocketLaw: Revolutionizing Legal Workflows with Technology

[00:00:00] Have you ever wondered what it takes to challenge the status quo of a traditional industry? Well,

[00:00:08] today I want to dive deep into the world of legal tech, an arena that has long been right

[00:00:14] for innovation and yet arguably resistant to change. And I say arguably because I think

[00:00:20] it had that reputation before. But this is changing now. And today I'm joined by Kira Unger.

[00:00:27] She is the co-founder and CEO of a company called Pocket Law. And she's taken on the formidable

[00:00:32] challenge head on and alongside her childhood best friend, she embarked on a journey to digitise

[00:00:38] the legal industry and leveraging AI to transform how legal services are delivered. But how does

[00:00:45] one navigate the unique dynamics of starting a SaaS company with a lifelong friend? What does it

[00:00:51] mean to bring technological innovation to an industry known for its conservatism?

[00:00:56] And most importantly, how is Pocket Law cutting through the noise to reduce legal cost for businesses

[00:01:03] while enhancing efficiency and reliability? Because at a time where so many businesses are looking

[00:01:08] at doing more with less, I think every single tech project now is under close scrutiny for the

[00:01:14] business value and ROI that it delivers. So today I invite you to join me as we uncover the layers

[00:01:21] of digitising legacy industries, the intersection of AI and law. And also of course the evolving

[00:01:28] role of legal teams in the face of technological advancement. But before we get today's guest on

[00:01:34] I need to pay the bills. We've got a huge podcast hosting fee to pay for when we're releasing 30

[00:01:40] episodes a month. And this month I've partnered with a company called Kiteworks. Now legacy

[00:01:46] MFT tools are dated and lack the security that today's remote workforce demands. So companies

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[00:02:45] that's kiteworks.com to get you started today. So buckle up and hold on tight because no matter

[00:02:52] where you're listening in the world, I invite you to join me in Stockholm, Sweden. Where cure

[00:02:57] is waiting to share her story? So a massively warm welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone

[00:03:04] listening a little about who you are? Add what you do? Absolutely great sphere. Thanks for having me.

[00:03:09] I'm Kiranger and I'm the CEO co-founder of Puk Kitelo. I'm and I'm from Stockholm, Sweden.

[00:03:15] Puk Kitelo is a legal management platform that uses AI to allow teams to manage contract and

[00:03:22] legal workflows in a more efficient scalable and use friendly way by providing them with intuitive

[00:03:29] self-soc tools, automation, data and AI. Well it's a pleasure having you on the podcast.

[00:03:34] One of the things I love doing on here is busting a few myths and I've been doing this for

[00:03:39] nearly nine years now, 3000 interviews almost. I've spoken to some people about legal tech over the

[00:03:45] years but traditionally the legal world has had somewhat of a reputation for being resistant to change.

[00:03:51] So I've got to ask is that still the case? Have things moved on and if we go back in time what would

[00:03:57] you say the most significant challenges that you faced when digitising your sector to

[00:04:02] additionally resistant to change and how are you able to navigate some of those challenges and

[00:04:06] maybe even unlock a few opportunities along the way? Can you share that story with me?

[00:04:12] Yes, absolutely. And Nilear Rhearright of course it's been challenging to disrupt an industry and

[00:04:19] as you said historically has been quite resistant to change. However though with notice that I think

[00:04:26] we've seen a shift and I think we've entered into a new era of legal which is very exciting to

[00:04:32] be part of. Going back to how we first got into the industries that I was used to work as an

[00:04:38] M&A lawyer at one of the Nordics leading business role firms. And at the firm I witnessed how every

[00:04:44] company that we work with in every single transaction all faced the same challenges and made the same

[00:04:49] mistakes and what they all had in common was that they used multiple unconnected legal software

[00:04:54] solutions or they relied entirely on manual processes. And it was a very very painful manual and

[00:05:00] costly for this thing. And meanwhile like Olga my co-founder she was part of a McKinsey digital

[00:05:09] labs so she got exposed to traditional industries going through digital transformations. So when we

[00:05:17] kind of exchange ideas and experiences that's when we dive into the more into the legal thing

[00:05:24] space and some of the challenges that we noticed was that when it comes to legal in business there's

[00:05:31] a prevalence for manual processes and discreet tools used for legal work so many many businesses still

[00:05:37] cling on to outdated processes using email exchange, value workflows, word and so on. And many have

[00:05:46] tried to use some tools to solve parts of the problem. And then the second challenge that we

[00:05:52] note this was that there is a lack of experience both in seeing the benefits of using

[00:05:57] technology in your daily work but also the lack of experience of actually buying the software.

[00:06:03] And this leads to lack of confidence and in some cases we're planning of change management

[00:06:08] resulting in you know failed adoptions or implementations and so on. And the third problem

[00:06:13] with we noticed was that how the problem is being approached. So what we've seen is that both

[00:06:20] lawyers and legal tech vendors often approach the problem in the wrong way. So they think of things

[00:06:26] as legal problems rather than business challenges and business opportunities, right?

[00:06:31] So this leads to lack of involving the right stakeholders in the early stages of finding your

[00:06:38] tech solutions and this results in lack of understanding of you know the businesses, the wider

[00:06:44] business as needs and how they can do things better. I mean because legal is not like always

[00:06:50] supposed to be managed in a silo in the country, legally something that should run smoothly across

[00:06:54] the entire organization instead of finance marketing HR and so on. But first legal first

[00:07:00] generation legal solutions were typically bent by legal teams for legal teams. So we saw big

[00:07:07] an opportunity when we looked into the legal tech market back in 2018 to build a pocket law with

[00:07:14] a revolutionary approach to legal software. Recognizing the need for a comprehensive legal tech

[00:07:20] platform that addresses the challenges faced by teams every day and that have that are you know

[00:07:26] incredibly easy to implement a road doubt in any team or in the organization. And yeah also

[00:07:35] I guess when it comes to and this way we were able to enable in-house teams to automate,

[00:07:43] standardize seven and huge amount of time and allowing them to transition from being more of a

[00:07:49] perceived bottleneck and their reactive support function to a team that can facilitate opportunities

[00:07:55] across the organization. And also enabling the legal teams to increase their autonomy in business

[00:08:00] team by providing them with intuitive self-sof tools, essentially eliminating bottlenecks,

[00:08:06] driving productivity, reducing human errors and increasing overall productivity in the team.

[00:08:12] So our mission from the start has always been to transform legal work for the world's teams and

[00:08:18] it's been an incredible exciting journey although of course challenging. But I guess that's also

[00:08:23] the reality right that the bigger the challenge, the bigger the opportunity

[00:08:27] and we can't control what challenges we will face so we must focus on what is within our control

[00:08:33] and recognize the hurdles ahead tackle them practically and make sure that we can turn

[00:08:40] challenges into our advantage. 100% with you and something else we've got to mention of course

[00:08:46] especially with this being a tech podcast is AI I think it was about 12 months ago, AI or

[00:08:52] generative AI was able to outperform lawyers in passing the bar exam and then is that ability to

[00:08:58] shift through thousands and thousands of documents quicker and more accurately than some in the

[00:09:05] legal industry. So in the context of AI's rapid advancements I'm curious you're someone writing

[00:09:10] that the eye of the storm here how do you see reshot taping the legal industry and what steps

[00:09:14] your legal professionals take to yes and race AI but also address foe mo fear of messing up and

[00:09:21] ensuring that accuracy and reliability in their services because that is paramount in this industry

[00:09:27] isn't it it's not something that you can take a gamble on. Yes absolutely and naturally I share

[00:09:33] your excitement with the recent advancements in AI it's been I mean it's been a game changer for

[00:09:39] us as a company and for the industry as a whole I've never believed that AI or technology will

[00:09:45] replace lawyers or in house teams but lawyers and in house teams using AI will replace those that

[00:09:53] don't and we found a pocket loan when we found a pocket loan in 2018 we received actually a grant

[00:10:00] from the from the Swedish government of 200,000 pounds to start an AI first legal tech company

[00:10:06] because of this you know strong conviction that AI can really augment the capabilities

[00:10:13] of of anything and empowering you to do things that just wasn't humanly possible before.

[00:10:19] So by using AI you can do things with a consistent speed and efficiency with higher

[00:10:24] consistency liberating use from you know repetitive and tedious work and essentially you'll see

[00:10:32] a significant increase in productivity in your tie it's in if you adopt the right technology

[00:10:37] and in the right way. So an example is that we we had a customer that had spent the whole morning

[00:10:45] reviewing a contract to figure out some inconsistencies that they found and then they used instead of play

[00:10:52] which is our AI assistant and instead of ours they figured out the problem in three seconds.

[00:11:00] Wow so this is an example of like doing something that used to take hours that can be done

[00:11:06] in seconds and I think it just doesn't make sense to do legal work in any other way.

[00:11:13] However though to your point on accuracy like that's of course incredibly important when it comes

[00:11:18] to legal work. More important than probably in in most other industries to be honest and

[00:11:25] there is a lot of legacy software in the market that really struggles with accuracy.

[00:11:29] There is and for this is primarily like they've developed the solutions on top of their own algorithms

[00:11:35] instead of using large language models which you know has only ever been available in the past

[00:11:42] a little bit more than a year. So if I'd give any like advice to legal professionals or teams

[00:11:50] out there looking for a solution an AI solution that could augment the capabilities of their team

[00:11:55] and spit up their productivity it's really to choose a vendor that uses state-of-the-art technology

[00:12:01] and the large language models with so that you can ensure that they're building products with

[00:12:07] high accuracy and reliability then the second thing would be you know software is really useless

[00:12:13] if no one can adopt it so make sure they use shoes of solution that's very intuitive

[00:12:18] I use it friendly so that anything in your organization can use it with confidence

[00:12:24] and then I guess the last thing would be like we're in this new year of technology

[00:12:28] so embracing AI is a really a choice. It's an opportunity that's too great to miss out on

[00:12:35] so it's time to shed or like a apprehension and just welcome this change and do it together with

[00:12:43] doing a way that can define the next chapter in your career. And if we just take a step back from

[00:12:49] the technology from a moment before you came on the podcast I did a little research on you because

[00:12:54] I always like to find out a little bit more about the origin story of my guest and how they got started

[00:13:00] the world of tech and I know it's that you started a business with a childhood friend which

[00:13:04] films quite unique so can you tell me a little bit more about how that relationship might have

[00:13:09] influenced the foundation and growth of pocket law and any advice you'd give to anybody else out

[00:13:14] there that might be listening considering entering into business with close personal friends

[00:13:18] all family and has your friendships survived over the years working in this eye pressure environment.

[00:13:24] Yeah no I'm not talking about this because I could not imagine doing this year with Olga.

[00:13:31] She's always been you know since I was very young so with knowing each other since I was seven

[00:13:36] years old she's been the source of strength and motivation for me and like I 100% believe that our

[00:13:46] relationship has been a bedrock of populous foundation and growth and we've always had a strong

[00:13:53] relationship she's actually to me she's more of an older sister than a friend and you know our

[00:14:00] shared history and kind of the understanding and trust that we've built up over the years I think

[00:14:05] has been critical in helping us navigate the complexities of building a successful company

[00:14:13] in the way that we've done it and being able to have to maintain the confidence determination

[00:14:20] and resilience over time ask you as if there's different challenges and in the journey and actually

[00:14:28] I think what I'm one of the things that I'm most proud of is that when we when we face some

[00:14:34] additional challenges I think you know you always believe that you you can always believe that

[00:14:40] you have a strong relationship but it's not until you're tested it's tested that you will know for sure

[00:14:45] and last year we had to go through some some really tough decisions and challenges as we scale

[00:14:51] the business and I think handling those and seeing how we handle those together is to me that

[00:14:57] they're a really strong belief or strong testament of our relationship so but for those entering if

[00:15:04] I'd give any advice and you know I get this question a lot actually if I'd you know the advice I'd

[00:15:09] give to to founders or people thinking about starting a business with with their friend or

[00:15:15] partner and I think my my advice would be find someone who really compliments you and that you can

[00:15:23] someone that you can trust and work with over time because the journey that you're that you're

[00:15:29] starting on is probably going to be quite long and full of trenches and then you want someone

[00:15:34] who can be strong support and ally on that journey the one thing to do is to make sure that you

[00:15:40] align on goals and expectations and potential challenges before starting the company so that

[00:15:46] you can make sure that you have the same view of how you're going to build this business before

[00:15:53] actually building it or starting to build it so that's going beyond just starting signing a

[00:15:58] shareholder's agreements would be to actually list down the things that you think are important

[00:16:03] and and and the goals that you have for the business long term then secondly we always make sure

[00:16:09] that we have regular one to once that are you know open honest and transparent and at least one

[00:16:15] a year makes one time per year really make sure that you calibrate because your roles and the job

[00:16:20] changes so fast as you scale the company so it's important to have a checking where you make sure

[00:16:25] that you're still in alignment then the things that you want to do together and then lastly we just

[00:16:31] of course make sure they can be healthy balance between your personal and professional life which

[00:16:36] can be challenging sometimes particularly when you love work and there's so many interesting things

[00:16:41] to talk about and so that's the advice I'd give and really you know recognize and leverage each

[00:16:49] others strength and and different the capabilities and experiences that's really allowed us I think

[00:16:55] to be a quite unique match for building a company is the different backgrounds and experiences

[00:17:01] and personal traits that we also have and share. Wow and I just love the journey that you've been

[00:17:08] on here it's absolutely incredible so much has changed over the years since you started and more

[00:17:15] recently of course we've got things like the rising inflation and escalating business expenses so

[00:17:21] I've got a way how will you put pocket law adapting and positioning yourself as a solution for

[00:17:27] helping to cut legal costs by leveraging technology and but anybody listening on the lookout

[00:17:33] for your services that any examples of of how technology is making legal services more affordable

[00:17:39] and ultimately more efficient for businesses. Yes I think particularly in the legal space there's

[00:17:45] an interesting momentum in the market at the moment because of course legal costs are you know

[00:17:51] notorious and legitives are often unfairly seen as a cost center why adopting technology to avoid

[00:17:58] overhiring and ensuring you know increased productivity and the risk processes has become

[00:18:04] by critical but there's also an increased demand from the legal teams themselves themselves and

[00:18:10] this is really so what is interesting is that currently there is an increase so the legal

[00:18:19] landscape is becoming increasingly complex and at the same time the business demand is increasing

[00:18:25] and there's a pressure to cut costs so legal teams are asked to do essentially

[00:18:31] holds more but with less than ever before why adopting technology is of course one of the

[00:18:38] has become paramount for these teams and I think our approach to cost-cutting goes even further

[00:18:47] than the promise of ROI or return of investment so we believe that this day's you need to prove

[00:18:53] the cost of inaction and real savings of using our technology and I'll give you an example so

[00:19:00] we had a customer that had missed three office list says being renewed last year costing them

[00:19:07] several hundreds of thousands of pounds and we also consistently see customers missing software

[00:19:14] renewals for tens of thousands of pounds as well so if there's only on one occasion it's a mistake

[00:19:21] but if there's a pattern you need to treat it as a real cost and that's a really difficult cost

[00:19:27] to budget for so that's when you have a cost of inaction that you need to deal with so

[00:19:33] with pocket law the way that we tackle this is that you can streamline contract workflows using

[00:19:39] automation you can empower every team and in organization to with intuitive self-so tools so

[00:19:45] allowing them to do work more autonomously eliminating botanics or so on you can review a markup

[00:19:51] contracts using AI driven playbooks for negotiation and cutting time on contract negotiations

[00:19:58] significantly you can use a centralized AI driven repository which is a way to give you

[00:20:04] full visibility of all your contractual obligations risks and deviations you can also use discovery

[00:20:12] solutions so that our AI powered search for problems and discovering solutions to different

[00:20:19] problems that you face so most of these products means that you can do tasks that previously took

[00:20:26] you hours maybe even days in minutes and to me it just doesn't make sense to do legal in any other

[00:20:35] way because this way you'll be able to automate away a lot of the work free up time in your team for

[00:20:41] more high value work you can delegate things more internally but with while maintaining control

[00:20:48] so actually decreasing the risk of human errors and increasing the quality you can also shift

[00:20:54] more legal work in house by increasing the knowledge and autonomy in your in your teams

[00:21:02] and essentially one of the most important points is also to free up capacity of your senior legal

[00:21:08] team so that they're able to drive more strategic business decisions so these are just

[00:21:14] a six-ampusable the benefits that you'll see which will increase productivity efficiency happiness

[00:21:21] in the teams but also cost and one of our customers secret skips and said that popular provided

[00:21:30] their business with by provided their business with the self-sort tools that allows the legal team

[00:21:36] to have capacity for more high value work so is that a question yes yeah yeah

[00:21:43] and during the conversations all the many conversations that I've had on this podcast with people

[00:21:48] throughout the industry are one of the things that I've seen as well is the role of general councils

[00:21:52] and legal teams he's rapidly evolving often driven by the increasing demands to do more with less

[00:22:00] of course that's something that a lot of businesses are focusing on now so again how would you

[00:22:05] see technology particularly solutions like pocket law empowering these teams to make these

[00:22:11] meet these new expectations and drive digitization within their organization because

[00:22:16] it's quite a tricky balance isn't it everyone wants to adopt it I don't want to adopt the latest

[00:22:21] technologies be more efficient but equally they've got budget constraints at the same time so

[00:22:25] what are you seeing here no absolutely oh it's it's an incredibly exciting time for

[00:22:31] for legal teams and for general councils and as you said the experience I think they're going

[00:22:37] through a big shift at the moment and I have been doing so for a while and I think it's a it's

[00:22:43] a huge opportunity for these teams to become like a real business partner for the company that they

[00:22:51] work for because it's an interesting time for for legal teams across the world really where the

[00:22:58] regulatory landscape is becoming more complex business demand is increasing in all

[00:23:03] while you need to consistently cut costs so this is why making sure that your teams are really

[00:23:10] taking able that the driven in a power for it becomes paramount and because the things that you

[00:23:18] the only way to truly to truly cut costs whilst making sure that you can actively defend

[00:23:23] the company will be able to is to adopt technology and I think that's why we've seen this incredible

[00:23:30] momentum in legal technology solutions like pocket law enable in house teams to ultimate most of

[00:23:35] their standardized workflows including everything from creating negotiating and signing your contracts

[00:23:42] as well as having one centralized place for legal intelligence saving them huge amounts of

[00:23:49] time and allowing them to transition from the perceived being a pursuit of center and support

[00:23:56] function to an opportunity facility to that practically defense the company and they can also

[00:24:03] use technology to enable teams to increase to an and legal platforms is also way for

[00:24:10] legal teams to increase autonomy in businesses by empowering them with intuitive self-sortual

[00:24:16] automation data and AI and this way they can eliminate friction in the business they can

[00:24:22] eliminate bottlenecks drive productivity reduce human errors and making collaborations across

[00:24:28] organizations more seamless than ever before so this way you can avoid unknown costs from

[00:24:39] legal risks that you have in the company you can also avoid mistakes that happen by using

[00:24:47] ticklons you can avoid mistakes that happen regularly that will be very costly and as I said earlier

[00:24:53] you've been on an incredible journey and I love how you've developed a SaaS platform specifically

[00:24:57] designed for the legal industry and I'm curious any unique advantages or challenges that you've

[00:25:02] experienced along the way and ultimately how is it enabled you at pocket law to make yourself stand

[00:25:08] out in this highly competitive space anything you can share around that and what makes you different

[00:25:13] from other solutions out there yeah so organ i brought a law a big amount of first-hand experiences

[00:25:19] from our respective careers so all got with background as managed by consultant focusing on

[00:25:24] digital strategies and being an m&a lawyer and being exposed to many teams dealing with legal

[00:25:31] challenges so I think we we really understood both the impact of digital transformation as well

[00:25:39] as the nuances of the legal world which gave us fairly unique advantage I think to to tell your

[00:25:45] popular to address specific pain points and our vision with popular has always been to build the one

[00:25:52] system for legal leveraging AI and large language models and design for every user and how we are

[00:25:58] different is that we are the only truly end-to-end legal platform in the market offering a complete

[00:26:05] suite of products and while many second-list I want many legacy tools to struggle with accuracy

[00:26:12] under their products the accuracy of ours are industry leading and finally I think we have the

[00:26:21] by far most intuitive and user friendly solution in the market which make it possible for anything

[00:26:27] to dot pocket law really really fast and we have customers saying that you know it feels like this

[00:26:32] product has been built for us so I think this like holistic approach and the deep understanding for

[00:26:38] the of the pins of our users has allowed us to to build pocket law in a revolutionary way and

[00:26:46] benefiting teams in which that's quite unique. As we look towards the future one of the things

[00:26:54] that attracted me to you is this collaboration between AI and human legal experts because I always

[00:26:59] say on this app it this podcast every day that technology works best when it brings people together

[00:27:04] I also think in your situation here I think AI works best when it complements rather than

[00:27:10] competes with those legal teams so if I was tasked you to look into a virtual crystal ball how do

[00:27:16] you envision that future collaboration between AI technologies and human legal experts and

[00:27:22] and also of course what measures do you think are necessary to ensure that this new synergy

[00:27:27] enhances the quality of legal services while also maintaining things like ethical standards and

[00:27:33] trust it's the less exciting things but it's equally so important isn't it to the industry.

[00:27:38] Definitely Neil and I agree with you I see AI as a powerful technology to augment human

[00:27:45] capabilities rather than them replacing it and when I look into the future I think it's never been

[00:27:52] harder than it's never been as hard as it is now to predict what will happen given the speed

[00:27:58] of the development I think has taken everyone by surprise so I think there's a huge responsibility

[00:28:04] on both workplaces as well as universities to ensure that we have a human-centered approach to AI

[00:28:11] and apply critical thinking of potential you know societal changes as a result of this

[00:28:18] technological advancements and I think when it comes to the legal world it's important to

[00:28:25] choose a software that ensures that your teams can meddle those ethical standards and trust

[00:28:34] in an efficient way because I don't think there is a way of stopping people from using this

[00:28:40] technology so you're rather have them using it in in a controlled environment.

[00:28:46] Given the regulatory complexities of the legal industry for any founders or business leaders

[00:28:52] listening to our conversation out there I've got to ask how do you personally in your partner here

[00:28:59] had you balanced innovation with compliance particularly it's so many different legal

[00:29:04] jurisdictions again I would imagine it is a huge nightmare and a real balancing act but anything

[00:29:09] could share on how you manage this. Absolutely so in the legal landscape like compliance is of

[00:29:15] course like no like all possible and it's complex to maintain that standard when you're

[00:29:25] operating across multiple jurisdictions and territories and so how we've and that's one of the

[00:29:33] many reasons why we started popular as well to provide businesses with a solution that makes it

[00:29:41] easier to scale legal services across across the the markets that you do operate as a business

[00:29:48] so how we've navigated this personally as we've built the product we have thought about the ways

[00:29:55] that we could make this more streamlined and efficient and then we have provided those tools

[00:30:02] and those solutions to tool for our customers so I think it's it's been a big responsibility for us

[00:30:08] and our team to find the right partners in local markets so that we could ensure compliance across

[00:30:14] the markets in jurisdictions that we do operate and when it comes so again never compromising on

[00:30:21] compliance when it comes to innovation however I think currently in Europe there is there is almost

[00:30:28] an obsessive lawmaking and what we need to also consider is the risks that we will fall behind

[00:30:35] other countries in the world if we restrict businesses too much when it comes to innovation so

[00:30:43] for example with AI as an example when it comes to AI legislations AI is treated quite generally

[00:30:50] whereas there are of course many subdominance to AI so I think that's an important thing to

[00:30:57] consider for Europe as we continue to see technological developments and breakthroughs

[00:31:04] and I think that has incredibly powerful moment to end on so thank you so much for sharing your

[00:31:09] insights today but before I let you go this is the point of the podcast where I ask you to leave

[00:31:14] one final gift to everyone listening and that is a book that means something to you that we can

[00:31:19] add to our Amazon wishlist or a song that maybe it's your power song whatever it is all I'm

[00:31:24] going to ask is what would you like to leave everyone listening with today and why?

[00:31:30] So what I'd like to leave everyone with is my number one favorite book seven habits of highly

[00:31:36] effective people by Stephen Colvey so this is a book that's been had a huge impact only personally

[00:31:45] and professionally and it's a book that goes through the seven habits for sustained and lasting

[00:31:50] success in both your personal and professional life and it includes stories examples or practical

[00:31:58] exercises that you can use to empower and this spire you to effectively lead yourself,

[00:32:06] influence, engage and collaborate with others and continuously work on your fundamental characteristics

[00:32:13] and bring you your capabilities and if I may instead of a song I would like to also name my second

[00:32:22] favorite book which is Outliers. Yes all right book isn't it yes.

[00:32:27] I'm glad to welcome glad to have you. But instead of naming my favorite song I will name my

[00:32:34] second favorite book and it's a book called Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell and it's an incredible

[00:32:43] incredibly powerful book that lives you with many thoughts and insights so highly recommend both

[00:32:49] of them. Yeah, it is a cracking book I've recently read that one myself well I will get them

[00:32:54] both added to our Amazon wishlist and for people listening just wanting to find out more

[00:32:59] information about Pocket Law maybe they want to ask your team a question or even connect with

[00:33:04] you online. Where would you like to point everyone listening? I'm you best your this is where to

[00:33:09] reach me is probably on LinkedIn where my handle is just Kira Unger. Fantastic well I will add a link

[00:33:17] to your LinkedIn and also to the Pocket Law website so people listening can find you nice and

[00:33:22] easily today and we've covered so much in a short amount of time from starting a SaaS company with

[00:33:27] your childhood friend transforming the legacy industry with technology and also discussing AI

[00:33:34] is impact on the legal industry and putting business legal costs with tech and new tech along

[00:33:40] the way as well. Fantastic journey you've been on and I know he's going to continue to evolve so

[00:33:45] I'm looking forward to seeing how things continue to reshape the industry over the next few years

[00:33:50] but more than anything just thank you for sharing your story today. Thank you so much Nellan,

[00:33:55] thank you for having me. So as we wrap up today's conversation with Kira I think it's clear that the

[00:34:00] journey of transforming a legacy industry is both challenging and rewarding and Pocket Law for me

[00:34:07] stands at the forefront of this transformation and I love how they're redefining the legal landscape

[00:34:12] through automation data and AI and I think it was Kira's insights though into founding a company with

[00:34:20] childhood friend overcoming that fear of messing up and leveraging technology to empower legal teams

[00:34:27] truly inspiring stuff and as we do look forward to the future where AI augments human capabilities

[00:34:34] compliments teams. I think it's evident that solutions like Pocket Law are not just about

[00:34:40] efficiency though they're also about enabling a more strategic proactive legal function so

[00:34:46] huge thank you to Kira for showing her vision, her experiences with us today and to each and

[00:34:51] every one of you listening how do you see technology reshaping industries that may have previously

[00:34:58] had a reputation for being resistant to change and have you experienced the direct impact of legal

[00:35:05] tech in your professional world please invite you to share your thoughts and join the conversation

[00:35:12] by emailing me tech blog writer outlook.com twitter linked in instagram just and nil see us nice

[00:35:18] and easy to connect with connect with me tell you what you thought of today's episode if you've

[00:35:22] got any questions if you want to come on the show all that stuff some year quick dear and of course

[00:35:27] our return again tomorrow will tackle a completely different industry a completely different

[00:35:32] technology and I invite you to join me again tomorrow but until next time this is Neil Hughes

[00:35:38] signing off from tech talks daily remember stay curious stay informed and keep pushing the boundaries

[00:35:45] of what's possible speak with you all tomorrow