Building an AI Ready Workforce Without Abandoning Entry Level Talent With Year Up United

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[00:00:33] Write the email. It can analyse the data. It can summarise the meeting. And increasingly, it can handle the tasks that once gave young people their very first step on the career ladder. So something that has been bothering me lately is if we automate all the entry-level work, where do tomorrow's experienced professionals and business leaders come from? Well, today I'm joined by Gary Flowers, CIO at Year Up United, an organisation that's been

[00:01:02] phenomenal work in helping young adults without four-year degrees build meaningful careers while helping employers find that skilled, career-ready talent that they're looking for. And Gary believes the winners in an AI-powered workplace won't be the people who try to compete with machines. They'll combine AI fluency with the qualities that technology struggles to replicate. Yeah, I'm talking about the great human skills that are so underestimated.

[00:01:31] Creativity, curiosity, critical thinking, communication and collaboration. These are the areas that AI cannot compete with, at least for now at least. So we'll discuss why skills-first hiring matters, what employers risk by removing entry-level opportunities, and how AI could expand economic mobility rather than creating another digital divide.

[00:01:58] We've got lots of optimistic views for you today, and I want you to be a part of this journey. So, how do we build an AI-ready workforce without closing the door behind us? Let's get today's guest on. We'll talk about all this and much more. So, thank you for joining me on the podcast today. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? Yeah, Neil. One, you know, excited to be here, so thank you very much for this opportunity.

[00:02:29] In a manner of background, my name is Gary Flowers. I am the Chief Information Officer over Transformation and Technology Services here at YearUp. YearUp is a national leading workforce solutions provider. We take young adults who do not have a bachelor's, up to, right, do not have a bachelor's degree, and we train them and get them into what we call meaningful careers

[00:02:56] and equip employers with career-ready talent to make sure that there's not just that initial job, if you will, but an ongoing, long-lasting economic mobility. And then, you know, we look to make impact at scale. For me personally, I've been at this race for 30-plus years, Neil.

[00:03:20] You know, if this was not a podcast and we were on camera, you'd see a little bit of the grays on the side to testify to the 30-year career. I've always worked in the intersection of technology, education, and workforce development. And I've actually had CIO roles in edtech, global staffing, and then, of course, mission-based organizations.

[00:03:50] You know, a lot of people ask the question, you know, what's your why? And my why is at Year Up because I actually grew up in an underserved community, and I believe that the underserved youth that are part of our program, that technology has the ability to, you know, create opportunity, right, not just barriers.

[00:04:16] And that's guided me my entire career, and now I'm passionate about using, you know, innovation and things of that nature to help prepare the next generation of young adults for not just jobs today, but, you know, the jobs of tomorrow as well. It's such incredible work you're doing here, and I always say at the end of every episode, technology works best when it brings people together. It's exactly what you guys are doing, and I applaud you for that.

[00:04:42] And before we started recording today, we were having a little talk about the World Cup and soccer, et cetera. When I first saw the company name Year Up United, I have to ask, are there any soccer connections there? Is it a tip to English soccer teams, or is it just more about uniting people? You know, the recency bias would lead me to think that yes, but I would tell you we actually went through a rebranding a couple of years ago, and part of that rebranding was to move from Year Up to Year Up United.

[00:05:12] And the United piece was to really have a view on the multiple ways that we actually bring solutions to our partners. And so it wasn't, it's not just one product, it's not just one thing we do, but we take a look at the ecosystem, and how can we influence the ecosystem? How can we provide talent? How can we help corporate partners understand what the Skills First movement is all about?

[00:05:41] And, you know, of course, recently, how does AI not just become a disruptor, but can help our young adults in this, you know, by matching opportunity to talent at scale? And so, you know, so it's uniting all of those aspects, if you will, where the Year Up United brand update came from.

[00:06:04] And it's such an important topic, because I think it's younger people that are having the biggest challenges with AI at the moment. People of a certain age may think, oh, well, the young ones have got it all sorted, because they've grown up with this technology. But actually, it's quite difficult, because the entry-level roles that they used to go into after graduating from education are now being replaced by AI, of course.

[00:06:28] So, ultimately, AI is changing entry-level work and the skills that employees expect from young people. And also, they're in education, possibly learning and training for jobs that don't yet exist. So, what are you seeing that convinces you that workers who succeed will be the ones who learn to work alongside AI, rather than just competing against it? Yeah, Neil, I think you just, in that last comment, you hit it right on the button there.

[00:06:57] You know, AI alone is not going to necessarily just wholesale get rid of entry-level positions. But I tell you what, like, you may get beat out for someone who actually uses AI in partnership with what we call the human skills, right? And the human advantage.

[00:07:21] And so, you know, we teach our young adults what we call, you know, durable skills, that AI hasn't changed. And quite frankly, there's an argument that they've become more important from an AI standpoint. But you have to partner that with the AI fluency, because things, you know, the new definition of entry-level is different, right? So, entry-level will still be there.

[00:07:48] You're still going to need career pathing, succession planning, business knowledge, you know, from a corporation standpoint. But that entry point, AI has really drastically changed it. And the people that, to your point, are working in partnership with AI, right? So, let's take out all the routine tasks and let AI do some of those. And, you know, what is your true competitive advantage as a person?

[00:08:15] And then for a company, what's your true competitive advantage that you want your employees really focusing on? And that's where AI allows you to focus more on that and, again, remove a lot of the noise. So, it's not replacing as much as it is redefining what those entry-level positions are.

[00:08:35] And some online have also highlighted that there's a potential danger that AI creates another divide between people who have access to the tools, the training, and the support to use it effectively, and those from underserved, underprivileged communities that don't. So, what needs to happen to ensure that AI expands economic mobility rather than just reinforcing existing inequalities? Because everybody needs to be a part of this, right? Yeah, I think, you know, you make a good point, right?

[00:09:05] In the previous arena, there was a divide of who had internet access and who did not, right? So, when the internet came out, there was the capability of creating more of a divide. And what we found is we teach our young adults not just AI fluency, but the ethical use of AI.

[00:09:28] We teach them things like delegation to understand when AI should, not just when AI can do something, but when should AI do something? And so, it's as much as a new way of thinking and learning as it is access to tools.

[00:09:51] And so, a lot of the things that young adults can do, you don't necessarily need, you know, $200 a month access to enterprise, you know, X license, you know, X across all the different providers. But you do need a mindset of continuous learning, and that's free, Neil, right? You know, that doesn't cost anything.

[00:10:16] And the more you do that, the more the opportunities will continue to evolve to have the right tool sets. The other thing, Neil, I would tell you is, you know, there are AI tools that are coming out, you know, it could be as low as $70 a month as much as $700 a month. And I'm talking number of new tools that are coming out.

[00:10:38] And so, you know, the democratization of AI capabilities, I think, is something that's going to move at a much faster pace than it did with the internet development or mobility development and things like that. Because I put AI right up in there at that level from a disruption standpoint. Yeah, I completely agree with you. And I especially love the point you're making here because AI fluency alone is not enough.

[00:11:08] The person that just sits face down in a computer all day is only going to get so far. Human capabilities such as judgment, adaptability, communication, collaboration, and problem solving, all these things are now becoming as valuable, if not more so, the more AI becomes more capable, right? Absolutely. To piggyback on that thought, Neil, you know, our – so I'm in a unique position, Neil.

[00:11:35] I am over technology and I'm also, as I said, over the transformation arm. Part of that transformation arm that falls up under my responsibility is the actual curriculum that we create, maintain, and enhance to serve our young adults. And our fundamental piece from year up, if we were to, quote, unquote, talk about our secret sauce that is not so secret on what we do, the secret sauce is how we do it.

[00:12:03] But it's what we call workplace and career readiness alongside technical skills. And it goes back to the point that we made about these human skills being even more valuable every time a major technology change occurs. And there's no different now with AI, right? I like to use the term – I call it the four Cs, Neil. Yeah.

[00:12:31] You know, everybody has to have a kind of catchphrase, if you will, right? The four Cs being creativity, curiosity, critical thinking, and collaboration. Now, those have always been a thing, have always been fundamental.

[00:12:51] And they are even more important in the AI world now because, you know, if I'm not thinking creatively, you know, I may not know when I should use AI and not use AI. If I'm not curious, then I may stay on the status quo and somebody may use AI to leapfrog me.

[00:13:18] From a critical thinking standpoint, there's fundamental things, Neil, like the difference between one prompt and six prompts is how critical of a thinker are you to ask the next question and bring context to what you're bringing out of AI. And then lastly, from a collaboration standpoint, it's not just about collaborating with your team.

[00:13:41] In the new AI workforce, you need to be able to collaborate with humans and AI and have a balance between the two. And again, that concept of delegation comes in there. And so those human skills, and I mentioned the four Cs, but we actually have 17 durable skills that we train our young adults, no matter what pathway they're coming through for us. All young adults get trained in those 17 durable skills.

[00:14:10] And we have continued to see in this AI world that corporations are still saying, you're up, students are corporate ready because they bring those durable skills and they combine it with the technical skills and the AI fluency to become the complete worker. And before you join me on the podcast today, I was doing a little research on you guys.

[00:14:35] And I was reading how Europe is partnering with Anthropics Clawed Corpse Fellowship Program. Sounds incredibly cool. But what are you learning about how young adults develop practical AI skills and AI skills? And how should employers be maybe rethinking the way that they train people to use these tools so much more responsibly? The Clawed Corpse, one, is an excellent program.

[00:15:02] We're excited to be one of the inaugural host partners for some of the apprentices that are going to be coming through. And we're excited because we realize Europe isn't going to do this alone, right? The opportunity divide, you know, trying to get opportunity to meet talent and talent to fulfill the opportunity at our corporate partners is not a one company thing, right?

[00:15:28] And so, but Anthropics Clawed Corp is very similar to ours. They take them through training and then they put them into a year long apprenticeship, you know, not dissimilar to the way that we have our young adults go through training and then go through a three to six month internship. So you have that work-based experience. And so getting those, again, to your point, those practical skills and combining them with the right skills,

[00:15:56] where we recognize that human judgment still matters, is part of, you know, how we're shaping our thinking about learning overall. And again, we are very close to our corporate partners. So not only are we, you know, filling their need for entry-level talent, Neil, but we're listening to them. So we have a very tight feedback loop.

[00:16:22] And part of that feedback loop is not just them telling us, if you will, well, hey, we need this. We need this competency. We need this change is us educating the corporate partners on, hey, well, what you're looking for, you know, we can give the skills. You don't necessarily need a degree for that. Or, hey, here's some of the research that we bring to the table that says, yes, what you're speaking is true. But have you thought about these other things?

[00:16:50] And so we're challenging our corporate partners to continue to evolve. And in some places try to be even more forward-leaning, but at the same time, not just listening to them, but being very responsive to their feedback. Years ago, and if you take a look at some of our academic institutions, and hopefully this is going to be changing pretty rapidly on their side. But, you know, it takes years to change curriculum.

[00:17:19] At Year Up United, we change and update parts of our curriculum every six months. And that's because of some of that tight partnership and those feedback loops with our corporate partners where we're doing a dual path of sharing research and listening to what they need for those positions. Hopefully that helps. It really does.

[00:17:42] And I'm curious, when you're talking to your corporate partners there, are they fully aware of the short-term gains of, yes, using AI to automate tasks that were traditionally performed by junior employees? Are they aware that if they keep doing that, that they're also creating a gap and they're no longer creating the experienced professionals and leaders that they will need further on down the line if they were to play the long game?

[00:18:05] Yeah. So, you know, one of the things that we pride ourselves in, Neil, is not just getting young adults into that first meaningful career, that job in that first meaningful career. But there are two things that we really pride ourselves in past that, which is retention, right?

[00:18:26] Like they're not just getting there, but they're sticking more longer than someone that may have come in without a bachelor's degree that didn't go through our program. And then also, we're seeing them get promoted faster. Now, to directly answer, you know, how does that relate to your question? It is still about career pathing, right? Yeah.

[00:18:53] And we have also an alumni group that continues to follow up with our young adults to help them on that next position, whether it's training and upskilling so they can get that next position at their current employer, which is, you know, always what we prefer, or if there are opportunities for, you know, a promotion in other areas.

[00:19:14] And so, we have those conversations with our partners to say, hey, you know, we want you to take a look at us and as this, as a talent pipeline with a career pathway, right? So, there's a difference. It's kind of like, Neil, the difference from an AI standpoint between a workforce skill and an organizational capability.

[00:19:41] A workforce skill speaks to, hey, I want to get in and I want to get some efficiencies and I want everyone to have a certain level of fluency and a certain level of use of AI. And that's a workforce skill that we want everyone to have versus an organizational capability where we may be able to use AI to rethink functions, right?

[00:20:03] And think about how we can, you know, better do X in a way that AI, because of its ability to, you know, ingest and interpret and recommend large, large quantities of data, we may not have had that capability before.

[00:20:26] And so, again, to your point, short-term versus long-term, yes, there's short-term gains, but let's not sacrifice long-term capabilities by only focusing on short-term gains. 100% with you. I absolutely love that.

[00:20:45] And if you look online, you will also see lots of announcements or statements from leaders saying that they're struggling to find people with the skills that they need right now. And at the exact same time, there are millions of incredibly talented young adults out there that are struggling to access some meaningful career opportunities. So from your viewpoint here, what are companies getting wrong about how they identify, develop, and hire talent in this AI era that we all find ourselves?

[00:21:15] Well, you know, it goes, it also speaks to one of the fundamental concepts in building blocks from Europe, which is, you know, talent is everywhere, opportunity is not. And so we have 35,000 plus alumni that prove that you don't have to have a bachelor's degree to be successful in some of these large organizations.

[00:21:43] Like we have Fortune 1000 all the way up to Fortune 50 clients that we supply young adults, train young adults to. And so, you know, it's a matter of really understanding, you know, how, what you're looking for, right? Yeah. And being open to new talent pools.

[00:22:09] And then to your point about how is AI, right, affected that. Well, AI is another tool, right? It's another tool that is going to revolutionize and change things at a faster pace. It is going to allow disruption to happen more frequently and quickly.

[00:22:34] And so how do you then embed that into, I go back to your organizational capabilities that we talked about. And so having those conversations with corporations that say, hey, you know, you know, we say, people say there's all this talent out here, you know, where is it? And we say, oh, we have 35,000 alumni. We can show you where they are and how you can get to them.

[00:23:00] And oh, by the way, Neil, we started from a curriculum standpoint, researching and taking a look from an AI standpoint back in 2023. So this is not a Johnny come lately type of thing for us. You know, we've been on this ride for, you know, three, three and a half years now. And we're working, we're releasing our second version of AI fluency from a curriculum standpoint.

[00:23:28] And then we're working on our third version that will be coming out in early to mid next year. And so, you know, you know, keeping your finger on the pulse and again, continuing to listen to partners, but not necessarily wait on partners to have all the answers, if you will. And I think we often take it for granted that technology has made it possible for us to have this conversation today, 4,000 miles apart.

[00:23:57] And I'd love something magical to come from this and encourage somebody listening anywhere in the world, inspire them to make a difference. And for that person listening, whether they're a business leader or somebody in a community that wants to make a change here and they want to build an AI ready workforce without abandoning entry-level talent, everything we've talked about, what are the practical changes that they could take away from this episode today

[00:24:23] and make now to their hiring, their training and their career development? Well, one, I would say, you know, most organizations are concerned and value their culture. And so one of the things I think from a culture standpoint is, you know, creating a culture of continuous learning

[00:24:49] where, you know, part of everyone's job has to do with, you know, how can you do it better? And so how can we embrace tools like AI from a continuous learning standpoint to do things better? And not just your technology team, right? A lot of organizations just look at the technology team and they're like, all right, CIO or chief AI officer or, you know, whatever the new fancy titles are nowadays.

[00:25:18] Go figure this out as opposed to making it a culture for the organization. And then, you know, you know, supplying those tools to your workforce and then highlighting, if you will, through like communities of practice, because some people are hesitant, rightfully so, right? Yeah.

[00:25:40] But as you go through and kind of cultivate and show how AI has helped X department or how AI did this for the organization, like socialize that. You know, one of the things that a lot of, you know, IT departments in the past have had issues with is, you know, marketing IT. Well, same thing from an AI standpoint.

[00:26:06] You need to market what is AI doing and don't just market AI has allowed us to cut our head count by 25%, right? How is AI giving you more capabilities and being able to make your job better, more effective, more efficient, and highlight those back? And then, of course, you know, as part of this episode, Neil, just, you know, rethinking those entry-level roles, right?

[00:26:36] You know, it's skills first in an AI workforce today is what I would tell you, right? And so, rethinking and continuously looking at what those entry-levels are and how and where you can go to cultivate that talent. Because to your point earlier, we talked about it's, you know, if you just get rid of that entry-level,

[00:27:03] then what happens, you know, in the next X years when you need those next future leaders and you've, you know, you don't have a talent pool to pull from. So, I think, you know, I would say those three from a business standpoint are the three that I would leave your audience with as far as things that are very doable but need to be intentionable. And I also think those three things are actionable, if you will.

[00:27:32] I think that's a thought-provoking moment to end on. And for anyone listening, I would look to hold on to this moment now and make it actionable. And anyone listening wanting to carry the conversation with you or learn more about Year Up and anything we talked about today, where would you like me to point everyone listening? Yeah, I would go to our website, yearupunited.org.

[00:27:53] And, you know, there's tons of information out there about, you know, who we are, where we've been, what results we've had, what our different products are, how we can help on talent providing, how we can help with organizations from our advisory services and things like that. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn.

[00:28:19] And, you know, I enjoy, you know, talking to technology leaders, employers, and, you know, you know, I'm a CIL. So, anyone interested in, you know, how AI can expand opportunity and shape the future of work, you know, I welcome that connection and conversations. Well, so much I've loved about talking with you today around how AI is changing the workforce and so many big positives and how the future belongs to workers who know how to work alongside AI

[00:28:47] and how AI must be a workforce skill and, most importantly, organizational capability. I will have links to everything that you mentioned. I encourage people to keep this conversation going. But thank you for sharing your story today. Thank you, Neil. I appreciate it. I appreciate you allowing me to share the Year Up United perspective. And it's been great talking with you. Talent is everywhere. Opportunity is not.

[00:29:17] That inspiring line from Gary, I think, captures why today's conversation matters so much. Yes, AI can remove repetitive work and make organizations more productive. But employers, they also need to think beyond the next quarterly efficiency target. If we automate the roles where people traditionally learn, develop their judgment and gain their experience,

[00:29:44] we risk creating not just a talent problem, but a huge problem further down the road. And I think Gary's advice today offers a better path. Build a culture of continuous learning. Give employees safe opportunities to develop AI fluency. Celebrate examples where technology makes people more capable. And rethink those entry-level roles rather than just removing them.

[00:30:11] And possibly most importantly of all, remember, AI needs to become more than a tool employees occasionally use. Almost needs to become a workforce skill and an organizational capability. Combined with the human qualities companies will continue to depend upon. Massive thank you to Gary Flowers from Europe United for joining me today and

[00:30:38] certainly inspiring me and hopefully so many of you listening around the world. Thank you to each and every one of you for listening. I'll speak with you again real soon. If you want to find out more, go to techtalksnetwork.com. That's where I hang out. You can send me a message or learn how to work with me or browse through 4,000 different interviews. But I feel my voice is beginning to go here. So I will walk off into the sunset and I will speak to you again very soon. Bye for now.