2877: From Baby Boomers to Gen Z: Building a Multi-Generational Tech Workforce

[00:00:00] Are we fully leveraging the diverse potential of multi-generational teams in the tech industry?

[00:00:08] Well, today here on Tech Talks Daily I'm excited to welcome Michael Reedy onto the podcast.

[00:00:16] He's a seasoned consultant with Interaction Associates and he spent over 25 years guiding

[00:00:22] tech companies through the dynamics of a multi-generational workforce.

[00:00:28] His expertise shines in fostering innovation and collaboration across so many different age groups.

[00:00:35] In fact, there are currently five generations in the workplace

[00:00:39] so this makes it essential for thriving in this rapidly evolving tech landscape.

[00:00:45] So today we'll explore how constant change is the hallmark of the tech industry,

[00:00:50] why embracing this is crucial for innovation and we'll also discuss the significant role

[00:00:55] that leaders play in shaping the culture that bridges generational divides, builds trust and

[00:01:01] nurtures relationships. And he'll also share insights on how adopting interest-based conversations

[00:01:08] over position-based ones can turn generational differences from challenges into opportunities

[00:01:15] and also highlighting examples like the reconciliation efforts in Northern Ireland.

[00:01:19] He's going to illustrate so much about how finding common grounds can pave the way for substantial

[00:01:26] outcomes. Now before I get today's guest on, quick shout out to the sponsors of Tech Talks Daily

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[00:02:12] let's get today's guest on. So buckle up and hold on tight as I beam your ears all the way to

[00:02:18] Boston, Massachusetts where Michael is waiting to join us. So a massive warm welcome to the show.

[00:02:26] Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:02:31] My name is Michael, Michael Reedy. I am a leadership consultant with a company called

[00:02:39] Interaction Associates. And my interest in this is fueled by my earlier interest in adult education,

[00:02:48] adult education depending on your accent and believing really that the workplace is the place

[00:02:56] where we now grow and learn second only to perhaps our family of origin and of course our

[00:03:05] home life. But so third, I suppose the third place of real learning is work. Living in Cambridge

[00:03:12] in the US and I work for, I'm now an owner of this company. So it's a small owner 21% but

[00:03:20] significant piece of my life is invested in the mission of helping people to work better together.

[00:03:29] And you've been on an incredible journey and someone with extensive experience of

[00:03:34] consulting with tech companies. And I'm curious looking back throughout your career,

[00:03:38] how have you seen the dynamics of multi-generational workforces? Have you seen that impact things

[00:03:44] like collaboration and innovation within these organizations because we hear a lot about the

[00:03:49] technology but I think it's the human dynamics that has changed too which is quite exciting.

[00:03:56] Yes it is. It's quite in the 25 years I've been doing this work, I have seen

[00:04:03] almost culture shifts and then culture reversals in terms of the importance that

[00:04:12] organizations especially tech organizations place on processes and simplification.

[00:04:20] And it seems like there's always a pendulum swing back and forth trying to avoid

[00:04:29] over-complexifying things and trying at the same time to negotiate a mentality shifts

[00:04:37] that favors the collaborative while never losing sight of the innovators.

[00:04:43] Yeah, completely with you. I could be exciting to say and if we consider the

[00:04:48] unique complexity of a multi-generational workforce, what that introduces to the workplace,

[00:04:54] what are some of the most common challenges that you've observed in communication and

[00:04:58] collaboration across a variety of age groups? And how can organizations effectively address

[00:05:04] these issues because they're good and bad on all sides but if everyone comes together it's

[00:05:09] phenomenal what can be achieved but what are you seeing here? I think among the challenges

[00:05:14] within the multi-generation of course are I suppose people have in another generation

[00:05:21] people thought they got a job for life and they thought this was it. I joined

[00:05:30] the bank and it was set. I became a member of a group of lawyers and I'm set.

[00:05:37] I joined the tech industry and it's one innovation after the other but it turns out that it's...

[00:05:47] there's a significant quote that I live out of is the only constant is change

[00:05:55] which I heard first in a financial services company and 27 years ago and I thought it was

[00:06:00] terribly wise and then I remembered about 18 months later some of my philosophy from university

[00:06:08] in Dublin a famous thinker called Heraclitus said you know you can't step in the same stream twice

[00:06:16] which of course means the stream is always moving the water is never stagnant in a stream

[00:06:23] and there's a second thing that's changing and that's you the person who's stepping in

[00:06:27] is always changing so one of the complexities I think is that there's this constant change

[00:06:37] and there's a little clash I think in the human where the human would like it to be

[00:06:43] regular would like it to be... I don't think the human wants order and sometimes we mistake

[00:06:52] stability and sameness for order whereas in fact there's a beautiful disorder that's necessary

[00:07:02] to be innovative so in my experience there is that clash in the those who want everything

[00:07:10] to stay as it is and the huge drive that's in the tech industry of course to not just to

[00:07:18] innovate but also to simplify and then to be creative within that context

[00:07:25] absolutely love that and just to to further bring that to life are there any examples you can share

[00:07:31] where maybe you've seen firsthand the distinct strengths of different generations such as

[00:07:36] crystallized intelligence from older generations fluid intelligence from younger ones being

[00:07:43] leveraged together to drive innovation and solve problems it'd be great to hear some

[00:07:47] positive examples is anything that springs to mind there yes I mean there is I think a significant

[00:07:54] some really beautiful examples in AI and the way that the tech industry is adapting to AI clearly

[00:08:02] the science that AI is built around is not new it's nearly much of the science of the

[00:08:11] big AI has been in known since 2017 and so what we're witnessing now is I suppose the

[00:08:25] integration of the newest brightest thinkers emerging and joining to leverage AI with those who have

[00:08:35] and navigated the models who built the only there's only five families apparently of within the

[00:08:44] technology of AI but it's interesting to me that they even use the word family when they

[00:08:52] approach the what is I think the greatest game changer currently within the tech industry

[00:09:01] and so in my experience the strength you bring out a beautiful point there with crystallized

[00:09:07] intelligence which is an intelligence that builds on experience and that understands

[00:09:15] the patterns of not just my life but of discovery and begins to leverage those

[00:09:22] and it's contrasted I think we do well to contrast that with fluid intelligence which is

[00:09:28] an intelligence that younger people can sit and exam ask the exam

[00:09:34] and with great ability based on not without actually having experienced

[00:09:43] what they're speaking about or what they're being tested on so when you marry the crystallized

[00:09:49] intelligence to the fluid intelligence between these I mean there's five generations

[00:09:55] different generations in our workplaces inner tech companies and at present I think you

[00:10:03] you have a fusion that is unstoppable in terms of its ability to co-create and to innovate

[00:10:12] yeah that's a great point about there being five generations there and of course

[00:10:16] feedback mechanisms across all those generations is crucial in any organizational setting so

[00:10:22] what strategies have you found that might have proven effective in extending feedback mechanisms

[00:10:28] across those generations to include insights and perspectives from all age groups within the

[00:10:33] workplace because there's not a one-size-fits-all that will appeal to every generation is there

[00:10:39] there is not of course Neil and I often think of my own my own growth I've been lucky to meet

[00:10:47] probably three managers in my life who shaped me and most of their shaping was done

[00:10:57] by encouragement was done by a feedback that emphasized or took the trouble to see

[00:11:06] the development that was happening in me and frame it back to me so I think there's a

[00:11:12] tremendous responsibility on the managerial folk within our tech industries to to invite

[00:11:23] the different generations into the game of learning into the game into the into the life

[00:11:30] journey of growing as humans but also growing as purpose driven and as people who are

[00:11:39] challenged to contribute their gift and invited to contribute their energy

[00:11:45] and stimulated to stay within within the workforce there is a little bit of mistrust

[00:11:55] I think sometimes that the younger generations are not as committed as we were thinking

[00:12:03] uh those this this we this mythical we of course is is the is the older folk who very often are in

[00:12:11] the managerial positions and if we allow ourselves to to live out of our uh biases I would say

[00:12:22] we're missing a significant possibility uh of of helping a whole generation the next generation

[00:12:31] mature just as we were helped to mature I didn't get to where I am today without somebody

[00:12:38] noticing what I did well uh noticing how I might change and saying it to me in a way that I could

[00:12:45] hear so I do think feedback I once heard a very enlightened speaker at a lunch at the

[00:12:56] at the conference board in New York at a lunchtime talk say it's foolish to call it feedback

[00:13:02] who wants feed who wants food back what it should be called is food forward and I thought gosh it's

[00:13:10] a small little reframe but if you if you begin to think of the the gift that you're giving as

[00:13:17] food everyone everybody every human body needs food uh but they and we needed for the next piece of

[00:13:26] our journey so it's it's always future focused it's always for the next moment of this collective

[00:13:34] journey we're on as a huge as a species really it's funny is it how it always comes back to

[00:13:40] food is another saying about a feedback sandwich we know what you've got the the

[00:13:44] positives and the negatives but they're all put into a nice sandwich kind of action there always

[00:13:50] comes back to food doesn't it well I think it's worthy of when we we do we do look for nourishment

[00:13:59] at work yeah and that's not a new thing ever since maybe we we decided that we weren't just hogs in

[00:14:09] an industrial machine complex that we could build a system where human happiness was possible

[00:14:19] and human ambition could be fueled in a work context I think we've we've we've turned on

[00:14:28] the possibility of it being nurturing of it being nourishing and of it being food or life

[00:14:37] giving and from your viewpoint what are the would you say is the specific actions that

[00:14:44] leaders could take to maybe cultivate a culture where generational differences are not just

[00:14:49] tolerated but actually celebrated and encourage each generation to thrive and and contribute to

[00:14:54] their fullest potential I know I'm painting a picture of like a workplace utopia but it is

[00:14:59] possible isn't it oh I think it's I think we underestimate that the power of leaders

[00:15:07] in terms of shaping of a culture and there's a rather infamous saying that that culture eats

[00:15:15] strategy for breakfast and in other words the the way we do things around here

[00:15:22] is is actually central which is how I would define culture and the the creation of human

[00:15:32] relationships we sometimes say you get results which is a leading indicator by how you leverage

[00:15:40] two other things processes which is how we go about getting the results and relationships

[00:15:46] imagine a triangle imagine an equilateral triangle you don't have to have any one thing

[00:15:53] on the top but but think in terms of leading indicator think of our lagging indicator

[00:15:59] I sometimes ask groups which is a lagging indicator results or process or relationship

[00:16:05] and they think for a while and they end up saying the lagging indicator well which

[00:16:11] is a leading indicator and then they say more readily process is a leading indicator I would

[00:16:18] say relationship also is a leading indicator in in general results are lagging they they

[00:16:25] they depend on the process they depend on the on the relationship so I think the workplace

[00:16:30] culture needs an emphasis on from each generation to build relationships back and forth

[00:16:41] so giving a certain amount of autonomy I think especially to the to the the millennials and the

[00:16:48] gen z tapping into their creativity and allowing for short and long-term relations commitments

[00:16:55] is really central I think there's a there's an older model which says we have an apprentice model

[00:17:02] which dominated I think the recruitment process even even in the tech industry

[00:17:11] but I think it's no longer appealing so instead a culture I think that promotes innovation

[00:17:18] that that says you can grow here personally and there would be a bit of flexibility for you

[00:17:25] will resonate more with with all generations in my experience of of late I think the leaders

[00:17:36] have the responsibility of of cleaning up the processes or inviting a streamlining of the

[00:17:42] processes and I think people are hungry for clarity around processes and

[00:17:49] and that means leveraging people's I suppose emotional intelligence and leveraging their social

[00:17:58] intelligence in in in general those who have stayed in our industry have a third intelligence

[00:18:06] which is a it's I would it's the theory is that it's called contextual intelligence

[00:18:14] that is to say if you've spent 10 years in in in the tech industry in a particular organization

[00:18:20] you know how to navigate that particular culture that's a kind of intelligence that

[00:18:27] somebody just entering has to take a certain amount of time to acquire and so the blend

[00:18:35] then of the technical knowledge that gets you the job with the adaptability to

[00:18:45] and the agility that is required to remain in it in in a position and grow brings about

[00:18:54] kind of a synergy that does enhance I think efficiency and innovation so trust of course

[00:19:00] is is the is the key the key to really building the and enriching the context

[00:19:13] that people work in and so it brings me to saying that I think there's recognizing differences

[00:19:23] is it is a key and recognizing the gifts or the strengths we don't want all the same people

[00:19:32] who went to the same universities as us necessarily in fact we want different thinking

[00:19:38] and of course complementary styles but you couldn't imagine in a soccer team having

[00:19:46] a successful team if they were all goalkeepers you couldn't imagine in an American football context

[00:19:53] if they were all if they were all forwards it would not really work if they're all offense

[00:20:02] so I do think the leadership is offered an extraordinary possibility of bridging the gaps

[00:20:10] and I think you've just unintentionally described why the UK political spectrums it's such a mess

[00:20:18] right now we've got nothing but 12 goalkeepers are all went to the same school you know

[00:20:25] it is an extraordinary challenge to them to look I think one of the greatest things to

[00:20:32] that leaders can do is and leverage their own um know their own strategic thinking capability

[00:20:39] but also hire for for different strategic thinking strengths and and that that sometimes

[00:20:47] means looking beyond where I went to school or how I was educated to include a freshness of perspective

[00:20:56] and before you came on the podcast today I was doing a little research on you and I was reading

[00:21:00] how you've also mentioned the importance of leaders moving from positions to to interest

[00:21:06] to reconcile differences within that multi-generational workforce again incredibly forward thinking

[00:21:12] but can you elaborate on how that approach maybe you've seen how it has facilitated more

[00:21:16] harmonious and productive interactions in your work with different tech companies that you've

[00:21:21] seen throughout your career yeah I I think like never before uh tech companies are expected

[00:21:28] to work cross-functionally and there why maybe even just 10 years ago you were in your

[00:21:37] uh you were in services or are you were in uh r&d or you were in uh a particular slice

[00:21:48] of an organization but but now I think we are being invited uh in our in the in the

[00:21:54] organizations that to actually work beyond our our individual from from from from up across

[00:22:04] functionally and now that means that we are invited uh to consider what is the thinking

[00:22:09] um that is animating um many different uh segments of the organization uh that means we

[00:22:17] I think people enter into most conversations with with positions uh when when it comes to

[00:22:24] tackling an issue like solving a problem like uh opening uh within the sales function having the

[00:22:33] sales and be able to talk to the r&d and um there's very often different positions are taken up

[00:22:41] um now what has been found I think is people can get positional and stay positional

[00:22:49] and they can almost be on top of their own mountain looking across at each other and waving

[00:22:55] their their thinking flag uh if you let it stay at position very little changes

[00:23:02] people are happy in their position they're happy in their isolation

[00:23:06] if you wanted to work cross-functionally I think the invitation has to be made to find out what is

[00:23:12] below position what's driving position so people will say well it could be values yes it could be

[00:23:21] needs certainly uh it could be worries yes and there is a group who and who say

[00:23:29] out what's a what's a really good word for what drives position is interests

[00:23:35] uh and if you can have always intergenerationally an interest-based conversation rather than a

[00:23:42] position-based conversation I think you're going to change every conversation uh and of

[00:23:48] course the secret sauce you're looking for is could we possibly get to a common interest

[00:23:53] just a tiny common interest uh now out of common interest will come in time perhaps

[00:24:01] small agreements and that they are the building block of civilization believe it or not this

[00:24:06] particular way of framing and understanding has been used in my own country in Ireland

[00:24:12] in the north of Ireland during the peace process by a man called George Mitchell came

[00:24:18] to the north of Ireland and and met I think it's he wrote about this over the course of two years in

[00:24:25] 1996 to 1998 he met 24 different positions that came to speak with him not everyone came to speak

[00:24:33] with him uh towards uh this time of year uh in in March in March April of 1998 he said

[00:24:42] I'm we're going to have a meeting for a week and we're going to try to get to common interest

[00:24:48] uh and I'm going to stop coming over from from North America I have a new wife I have a new child

[00:24:54] and uh and so they had a meeting for a week which actually lasted two weeks and then they

[00:25:00] he brokered an agreement which was which was announced on a Friday which happened to be the

[00:25:06] Christian holiday of good Friday so it became known as the Belfast Agreement or the Good Friday

[00:25:10] Agreement but this is the he brokered a conversation that ended uh essentially the troubles and now

[00:25:18] the real miracle happened in 2005 when somebody who had stayed outside of that process uh because

[00:25:26] they said our position is we do not talk to terrorists uh that was a party led by the

[00:25:31] reverendine pay reverendine pays me the democratians party had stayed outside of this whole

[00:25:37] process um meanwhile gerry Adams who led an organization called uh shin fame or the IRA uh

[00:25:46] his party became the biggest boat winner on the nationalist side in 2005 and miracle happened

[00:25:53] the party led by reverendine paisley and the party led by gerry Adams went into a power sharing

[00:25:59] based on a common interest and when they came to knowing what was the common interest it

[00:26:03] wasn't peace because peace in in military context like this sometimes is not attractive to everyone

[00:26:11] um but what was common was they all had children and they all had an interest in their children

[00:26:18] growing up in a context that was not dominated by the book the gun or the bullet the bullet

[00:26:24] or the bomb uh and even to this very day just recently uh in the north of Ireland

[00:26:32] the big the power sharing executive was reconstituted with two women one from the shin fame and one

[00:26:38] from the democratic unionist becoming the new first time ever leaders uh female leaders

[00:26:45] in this in this of a power sharing so and now i'm saying what works in politics what works in

[00:26:51] government i think can work uh if it can work in northern Ireland i think it can work in our tech

[00:26:59] context as well well that's such a powerful story and if we were to take everything you've just

[00:27:05] said into the workplace i know you're an advocate for seeing conflicts there's sometimes a positive

[00:27:10] force so are there any examples in the the workplace from your consulting experience where

[00:27:17] generational conflict within a tech organization maybe actually led to a breakthrough in innovations

[00:27:23] or or new solutions because as you said earlier in our conversation you don't get fixes and you

[00:27:28] don't solve anything by everybody thinking the same way it's that diversity of thought

[00:27:33] where the where the magic happens isn't it it is really uh Neil i i mean the examples are many

[00:27:40] and many um the the famous ones of course are that the original maker of the of the of the small of

[00:27:50] this phone uh nokia missed it when it came to touching touching the screen uh they said a

[00:27:58] little bit like the canadian group um who said you've got to press down the buttons people

[00:28:03] will never not like that uh and they held on to the blackberry people uh but not not to make a

[00:28:12] saint out of steve jobs but he's he had a younger mentality he had a different generational view of

[00:28:19] things uh which were which were built around simplifying making it possible for uh just the

[00:28:29] touch of your thumb just the touch of your finger to to to transform a phone from being uh

[00:28:40] into what it is today at almost the the carrier of nearly nearly everything that we want to

[00:28:47] and hold dearly from photographs to to names to uh to the transmission of of innovative data

[00:28:56] so i do feel that um trans apparently steve jobs was not a great it was a hard man to work for

[00:29:06] not not that i ever met him but uh but i think you're breaking a mold if you're going to break

[00:29:12] a mold they say it's very hard to it's very hard to bake anything without baking without

[00:29:20] breaking the egg uh and at some level you've got to be prepared to break something in order to create

[00:29:27] something and that that will bring uh to let go of something it goes back to the change thing

[00:29:34] change is the only constant uh in in our in our tech world world and we've we need to embrace

[00:29:41] that again and again and again and that will bring good conflict 100 with you and i'm old

[00:29:48] enough to remember i think when those iPhones came out they i think it was steve bolmer of microsoft at

[00:29:53] the time he was he was laughing couldn't stop laughing at the idea of a phone that you couldn't

[00:29:58] you couldn't physically type and make your emails like you could the blackberry and said this will

[00:30:03] never work but of course it did quite the opposite didn't it yes it was it transformed our lines

[00:30:10] yeah for better or worse but there's an argument for another do you know do you know

[00:30:14] where your sony walkman is today oh yes with the the orange uh pads on the earphones i remember like

[00:30:22] well but it's in the basement or it's in the it's in the attic yeah somewhere it might be the cliff

[00:30:29] richard video where i was it i like tall speakers i like small speakers always remember like his

[00:30:35] roller skating around but yes but if we look forward how do you anticipate the dynamics of

[00:30:43] having five generations in the workplace how do you see that evolving particularly in the tech

[00:30:48] industry and is there any advice that you'd offer to any up-and-coming leaders that could be listening

[00:30:53] on how they should prepare and ultimately thrive in this increasingly diverse workforce well

[00:31:01] i think we are only touching the tail of the of the gift of the five generations

[00:31:09] yeah we are we're beginning especially in the light of cova to go beyond the biases that are a

[00:31:18] little insentile really and we're beginning to understand there's wisdom in in the old there's

[00:31:27] wisdom in the middle there's it there's wisdom in the old so it's it's leveraging i think

[00:31:33] that crystallized intelligence and leveraging uh the the the brilliance really of the fluid

[00:31:41] intelligence and fusing them and recognizing that the differences are the gift and they are what

[00:31:51] we can leverage they really are and i think that's a beautiful moment to end our conversation on but

[00:31:57] before i let you go i always ask my guests to leave one final gift and that is a song

[00:32:02] that they can add to our Spotify playlist all i'm going to ask is what would you like to

[00:32:06] leave to that list and why well the song that comes to my mind as i contemplate the five generations

[00:32:14] and the future is is a is a bob dillon song called blown in the wind um at one level the

[00:32:21] song is about inviting people to uh think beyond war think beyond conflict um think

[00:32:33] think into peace but it's also inviting people to hear and listen to each other uh

[00:32:39] and it's saying if we could do that um we could mend and build a new world and so it seems to me

[00:32:49] that is the the co-creative moment we're in uh where five generations are co-laborating

[00:32:57] which is laboring together they're co-creating which is making it up as they go along and they're

[00:33:06] co-habitating in the workplace uh so it's it's an extraordinary moment for the answer

[00:33:14] as to what it will be is blowing in the wind uh and the wind is at our backs as the Irish

[00:33:20] blessing says may the wind continue to be our backs um and may the world rise before us as we move

[00:33:28] wow that is possibly one of the best answers i've had to that question

[00:33:32] cracking song from a brilliant album as well i think it was the freewheeling album yeah

[00:33:36] was that that that had a famous cover in a street in new york if i remember rightly where the

[00:33:41] girl on his arm is alright right susie susie um i can't remember her second name but yes she was

[00:33:48] she was the love of his life at the time yeah powerful great album i always people

[00:33:52] who check that out as well and for anyone listening wanting to find out more information

[00:33:57] about interaction associates you the everything we've discussed today contact your team what's

[00:34:03] the best starting point for everything i think go to www interaction associates and um uh

[00:34:10] please and we'd be delighted to host you uh on that website and um and we would invite

[00:34:18] you to it ask us questions and explore invite us to uh to have a conversation about the needs

[00:34:27] that are um that are arising in your organization we have some experience of helping people

[00:34:33] uh shift and change their workplaces by demonstrating the power of collaborative capability

[00:34:40] and transferring the gift of skills within the collaborative frames mindset

[00:34:48] well this is a tech podcast but every day i always finish by saying technology works best

[00:34:53] when it brings people together and i look at your story there and talking about a future of

[00:34:58] work where there are five different generations in the workplace and using technology to bring

[00:35:04] them all together accepting that conflict is a catalyst for innovation and leveraging diverse

[00:35:10] strengths that is where the magic happens and multi-generational workforce dynamics

[00:35:15] was something we could talk about for another couple of hours but just thank you for shining

[00:35:19] a light on this crucial topic i really appreciate your time today thanks for joining me thank you

[00:35:24] me and be well stay well go well so as we conclude today's episode consider this how

[00:35:31] does your organization manage to blend of generational perspectives as i said there's five

[00:35:37] generations in the workplace working side by side right now so are there any opportunities

[00:35:43] that you're missing by not fully engaging with every group this is where i invite you to

[00:35:49] join the dialogue share your experiences and thoughts on fostering intergenerational

[00:35:54] collaboration what strategies have you seen or implemented that effectively harness these

[00:36:00] collective strengths of a diverse workforce email me tech blog writer outlook.com twitter

[00:36:06] linkedin instagram just at neil c hugh's let's keep this conversation going and learn from each

[00:36:11] other that is what this podcast is all about and i also invite you to join me again tomorrow

[00:36:17] would we all again with a different guest a different topic from a different sector

[00:36:22] hopefully proving how technology works best when it brings people together

[00:36:26] so thank you for listening as always and until next time don't be a stranger