2878: SmartRecruiters - AI's Role in the Talent Shortage Crisis

[00:00:00] How can companies turn the tide on the current talent shortage and harness new recruitment

[00:00:07] strategies more effectively?

[00:00:10] Well today we're going to delve into this pressing issue with Robert Simons, Chief Sales

[00:00:15] Officer at Smart Recruiters.

[00:00:17] And with his expertise in recruitment technologies and strategies, Robert will unpack how HR

[00:00:24] leaders are rethinking their approach to securing top talent in an organization.

[00:00:30] We'll explore the shifting focus from experience to skills and we will also explore the integration

[00:00:37] of AI and automation in recruitment.

[00:00:40] And also why weaving diversity and inclusion into the fabric of business strategies isn't

[00:00:46] just a nice to have, it's essential.

[00:00:49] And yes, we'll also bust a few myths about AI and recruitment along the way too.

[00:00:54] So I invite you to join us both as we uncover the innovative solutions that are setting new

[00:01:00] benchmarks in the recruitment landscape.

[00:01:03] Now before I get today's guest on, quick shout out to the sponsors of Tech Talks

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[00:01:40] Visit kiteworks.com to begin.

[00:01:42] Visit kiteworks.com to secure your data and empower your business.

[00:01:47] But now let's get today's guest on, buckle up and hold on tight as I beam your ears all

[00:01:52] the way to the UK where you can sit down with myself and we're going to talk about all

[00:01:57] this and much more.

[00:02:02] So a massive warm welcome to the show.

[00:02:04] Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:02:10] Absolutely Neil.

[00:02:11] Thanks for having me and to hide to everyone listening.

[00:02:15] My name is Robert Simons.

[00:02:16] I'm now considered a veteran of this recruitment technology industry because I've been in

[00:02:20] space for about 22 years.

[00:02:23] It's definitely a passion.

[00:02:25] I spent about six years as a technical headhunter as well.

[00:02:30] But I'm now Chief Sales Officer for Smart Recruiters.

[00:02:34] We're a Global Tile Acquisition platform with about 4,000 customers globally.

[00:02:38] And my claim to fame is that I was their first go-to-market hire in Europe back in 2016.

[00:02:45] Oh really?

[00:02:46] How cool is that?

[00:02:47] Well, I'm glad to get you on the podcast today.

[00:02:49] So much we've got to talk about in the world of recruitment, especially with the

[00:02:53] encroachment of AI and just about everything.

[00:02:56] But the talent shortage becoming increasingly pressing issue for HR leaders all around

[00:03:02] the world.

[00:03:03] And I would say that cybersecurity is one that really stands out.

[00:03:08] AI is another one of course.

[00:03:09] But could you share our Smart Recruiters, how you're guiding your clients to maybe

[00:03:14] rethink that recruitment strategy somewhat?

[00:03:17] And also what is the impact in this shift having on the way companies approach talent

[00:03:22] acquisition now because it feels like there's so much up for grabs right now and

[00:03:26] so much has changed hasn't it?

[00:03:28] Yeah, yeah.

[00:03:29] Absolutely.

[00:03:30] I think that the talent markets is affected by so many different variables.

[00:03:36] You know, the economy, you know, we've gone through an ad generation for the first

[00:03:40] time a pandemic with COVID.

[00:03:42] There's changing behaviors, you know, working from home, gig or fractional

[00:03:45] working environments.

[00:03:47] There's definitely big differences in the generations coming into the working

[00:03:51] marketplace as well.

[00:03:53] The education market and of course skills availability and a lot more

[00:03:57] mobility across order.

[00:03:59] And then we top it all off with Brexit.

[00:04:01] So it's really challenging for companies, I think, to be agile and prepared.

[00:04:06] Also, when you're looking at sort of hiring, you know, agilities across three

[00:04:10] dimensions, you need to, you know, think about, you know, the people managing

[00:04:14] the recruitment process.

[00:04:16] You need to look at the actual recruitment process itself and also the

[00:04:19] tools that underpin hiring and businesses, you know, they're facing

[00:04:24] a really continued sort of changing environment, you know, whether it's

[00:04:28] legislation, whether it's the digital transformation, changing competition.

[00:04:33] So it really is the number one issue for companies.

[00:04:36] And then when you sort of go a layer deeper and look at recruiting, you

[00:04:40] know, as a business process, it's really hard to get right.

[00:04:44] There's challenges on both sides.

[00:04:46] The candidates and the employers weigh up their investment choices and

[00:04:50] it's really hard to make a good match.

[00:04:52] And I know that, you see, from my experience of being a recruiter.

[00:04:55] Yeah.

[00:04:55] So here are smart recruiters.

[00:04:58] You know, we look to guide organizations to look at this problem

[00:05:02] holistically.

[00:05:03] And of course, you know, we're in the market to provide solutions

[00:05:07] that can help enable that as well.

[00:05:10] There's definitely some sort of fundamental elements that you

[00:05:13] were able to better ride the storm with this fluctuating

[00:05:16] market.

[00:05:17] And that could be perhaps being more proactive.

[00:05:20] So, you know, we help companies identify talent ahead of

[00:05:24] demand and help shorten those recruitment cycles.

[00:05:27] We also help companies get better insights on what works in

[00:05:33] terms of the sources for talent and also the processes.

[00:05:36] Obviously, as I've mentioned, it's about helping companies be

[00:05:39] more agile and adept to, you know, the changing needs

[00:05:43] and be more open and flexible to the new ways of working

[00:05:46] in the technology, as you've mentioned in your introduction

[00:05:49] that's coming out.

[00:05:50] So in summary, this requires a platform approach and a

[00:05:55] platform that enables you to scale and expand as you need.

[00:05:58] And many organizations I think are constrained by their

[00:06:01] technology, but our solution helps them embrace it.

[00:06:06] And before you came on the podcast, I was doing a little

[00:06:08] research on you.

[00:06:09] One of the things that I saw that you pointed out was

[00:06:12] the importance now of prioritizing skills over

[00:06:16] experience, especially when searching for new talent.

[00:06:19] And this really resonated with me.

[00:06:20] I had a guy on the podcast a couple of days ago, I think

[00:06:22] he's from Immersive Labs.

[00:06:23] He was talking about the world of cybersecurity and he was

[00:06:26] saying that new employees are entering the workplace for

[00:06:28] the first time.

[00:06:29] They're so much more passionate and wanting to get

[00:06:32] involved with more complex technologies.

[00:06:34] They want to learn more.

[00:06:35] They want to get involved with different areas where

[00:06:37] the existing experienced staff, maybe they've been beaten

[00:06:41] down by life and cybersecurity in general, they were

[00:06:44] less interested in pursuing things like that.

[00:06:47] So I'm curious, what challenges and opportunities,

[00:06:50] just the approach that I just mentioned, what does that

[00:06:53] present and how are you at smart recruiters facilitating

[00:06:56] companies in making that transition to prioritizing

[00:06:59] skills over experience?

[00:07:01] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:07:03] In terms of the challenges, I think the primary

[00:07:06] challenge is the shift in focus and the change

[00:07:10] management that it creates.

[00:07:12] And it's also, it's quite hard.

[00:07:14] I think you've got to have a lot of conviction to

[00:07:16] pivot in your recruitment to go down this route.

[00:07:20] There's a lot of work that needs to happen for

[00:07:22] organizations.

[00:07:23] They need to map their jobs in terms of skills.

[00:07:26] They also need to look at the competency levels

[00:07:28] in more detail than ever before to be effective.

[00:07:32] Recruiters need to learn a little bit more

[00:07:35] sort of skills around being adept at assessing

[00:07:38] those skills and matching to the roles.

[00:07:40] And often skills aren't necessarily explicitly

[00:07:44] called out in a CB.

[00:07:46] So, you know, how can recruiters test and measure

[00:07:49] these skills sufficiently to make a hiring decision?

[00:07:51] That's kind of where I think the main challenges lie

[00:07:54] as we look at that sort of skills focused

[00:07:58] hiring in terms of the opportunities.

[00:08:01] Obviously there's a great opportunity by

[00:08:02] changing this focus in recruiting because you

[00:08:05] open up to new possibilities.

[00:08:07] And to pick up on your example about sort

[00:08:10] of the more emerging talent that's coming out

[00:08:12] into the marketplace, you know, what about

[00:08:15] a high potential candidate who is self-taught

[00:08:18] digital technology workplace skills

[00:08:20] whilst they've been in education?

[00:08:22] You know, previously they would have been overlooked

[00:08:24] because they didn't have the prerequisite

[00:08:26] five years of work experience.

[00:08:28] But you know, I think now, you know, by

[00:08:31] widening and looking at skills instead

[00:08:33] of just that tenure, I think it's enabling

[00:08:37] organizations to widen the available

[00:08:40] talent pool that they look at.

[00:08:42] And in terms of how smart recruiters,

[00:08:45] you know, is helping organizations navigate

[00:08:47] this transition.

[00:08:49] We utilize AI to surface skills

[00:08:53] along with other elements to sort of

[00:08:55] copilot alongside the recruiter,

[00:08:57] reducing the legwork.

[00:08:59] We've got an open ecosystem so companies are

[00:09:01] able to harness other technologies to

[00:09:04] effectively assess a match across the

[00:09:07] key skills that they're looking to source.

[00:09:10] But I will say, Neil, it's not a perfect

[00:09:13] science. You know, very few organizations,

[00:09:15] I think, can really provide a lot of value

[00:09:18] in this space yet.

[00:09:19] But so we've got some good demonstrable

[00:09:21] use cases.

[00:09:22] But we're on a journey ourselves.

[00:09:24] But this is a key problem that we're

[00:09:26] committed to solving for our customers.

[00:09:29] And of course, the hiring process

[00:09:32] is painful for any business.

[00:09:34] They've got mountains of resumes to go

[00:09:36] through and then you've got the interview

[00:09:38] process and it's just an absolute nightmare.

[00:09:41] I'm getting flashbacks just talking about it

[00:09:43] there. And thankfully, I've left that wheel

[00:09:45] behind. But AI and automation, they are

[00:09:47] becoming staples in the recruitment process

[00:09:50] to help speed up that entire process.

[00:09:52] But again, it does come with a few

[00:09:54] problems as well.

[00:09:55] So can you share some insights on

[00:09:57] on how these technologies are enhancing

[00:09:59] the the actual human aspect of hiring?

[00:10:01] We don't talk about that enough rather

[00:10:03] than replacing it.

[00:10:04] And also what's what the signifies for

[00:10:06] the future of recruitment, maybe.

[00:10:09] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:10] I think there's a lot of talk

[00:10:12] around AI and automation.

[00:10:14] I think the two terms are often

[00:10:16] either misused or confused.

[00:10:19] Yeah.

[00:10:19] So I'll just sort of start by giving

[00:10:21] my viewpoint on how they differ.

[00:10:24] You know, automations about

[00:10:25] streamlining a predefined

[00:10:27] sort of set of activities or tasks,

[00:10:30] some of which you outlined

[00:10:31] and sort of minimizing that

[00:10:33] that manual intervention intervention

[00:10:35] that recruiter needs to take

[00:10:36] place. But it doesn't

[00:10:38] doesn't really go beyond that.

[00:10:39] It's just really about automation,

[00:10:40] automating those tasks.

[00:10:42] It thinks no further.

[00:10:44] Whereas AI and

[00:10:46] a lot of the emerging technology

[00:10:47] in the generative AI that we see

[00:10:49] coming into market that

[00:10:51] can really help, I think, drive

[00:10:52] insights and analysis into large

[00:10:54] data sets and it can make

[00:10:56] recommendations or suggestions.

[00:10:58] Of course, it can generate and

[00:10:59] create content, which is a much

[00:11:01] more sort of human like

[00:11:03] sort of approach in terms of

[00:11:04] technology.

[00:11:05] I think that I think that a

[00:11:07] combination of AI and automation

[00:11:09] can really aid recruiting.

[00:11:11] We see use cases in matching

[00:11:14] people to roles more efficiently,

[00:11:16] engaging and screening candidates,

[00:11:18] you know, aiding recruiters in,

[00:11:20] as I said, covering large data

[00:11:21] sets, removing the bias

[00:11:24] from the process, even if it's

[00:11:26] an unconscious bias.

[00:11:27] And I think it's definitely going

[00:11:29] to replace a lot of the work

[00:11:30] currently managed by recruiters,

[00:11:32] certainly those which are low

[00:11:34] value tasks.

[00:11:35] And I think if if AI and

[00:11:37] automations use well, it really

[00:11:39] can enhance the experience of

[00:11:40] candidates, recruiters and line

[00:11:42] managers, because more time

[00:11:45] can be devoted to that personal

[00:11:46] connection and relationship

[00:11:48] interaction to improve the fit

[00:11:51] of the candidate with the hiring

[00:11:52] manager in the company.

[00:11:54] So AI and automation, I think

[00:11:56] is here to stay as vendors like

[00:11:58] smart recruiters.

[00:11:59] You know, we need to help unlock

[00:12:01] the value and provide co-pilots

[00:12:03] to aid more effective and

[00:12:05] efficient hiring processes.

[00:12:07] And so we've we've actually

[00:12:08] had native AI embedded into our

[00:12:11] solution for a number of years

[00:12:12] and releasing more co-pilots

[00:12:14] around specific use cases as

[00:12:16] we expand out our vision for

[00:12:18] the future of recruitment.

[00:12:21] And you mentioned the bias

[00:12:22] work there a moment ago, and

[00:12:24] of course, diversity and

[00:12:25] inclusion have become

[00:12:26] imperatives for modern businesses

[00:12:28] right now. And AI is sometimes

[00:12:31] accused of having a bias

[00:12:32] problem. So how are you at

[00:12:33] smart recruiters helping to

[00:12:36] helping companies to weave

[00:12:37] their diversity and inclusion

[00:12:39] into the fabric of their

[00:12:40] business strategy? And is anything

[00:12:42] you can share around why you're

[00:12:43] seeing this or why you believe

[00:12:45] this integration will be a

[00:12:46] marker of success in 2024

[00:12:48] rather than all those those

[00:12:50] bad headlines that we may or

[00:12:51] may not have seen.

[00:12:53] Yeah, and there's this, you

[00:12:54] know, obviously, there's a

[00:12:55] number of examples around where

[00:12:57] it goes wrong. But I think

[00:12:59] I think diversity and

[00:13:00] inclusions, you know, got

[00:13:02] enough evidence now that it's

[00:13:04] been proven to have a positive

[00:13:05] impact to companies. But I

[00:13:08] think the big challenge is

[00:13:10] companies really need to

[00:13:12] commit to doing it well. And

[00:13:14] by that, I mean, you know, the

[00:13:16] leadership needs to embrace

[00:13:18] it, the processes need to

[00:13:20] support it. And ultimately, it

[00:13:22] requires, in some cases, a

[00:13:24] real sort of cultural

[00:13:25] education across the business.

[00:13:28] Because many of the biases are

[00:13:30] unconscious. So you're not

[00:13:31] aware of them. And

[00:13:33] technology can help. For

[00:13:34] example, we use AI machine

[00:13:37] learning to surface talent

[00:13:38] recommendations for roles

[00:13:40] within our platform, you know,

[00:13:42] focuses on sort of skills and

[00:13:43] capabilities, suitable to

[00:13:46] perform the job role. And, you

[00:13:48] know, it doesn't care about

[00:13:50] where you went to school your

[00:13:52] name and other aspects that

[00:13:53] can be subjected to bias. So

[00:13:55] candidates, I think, you

[00:13:58] know, are really seeking

[00:13:59] authentic environments. I don't

[00:14:00] think you can fake them

[00:14:02] with DNI. That's why I said you

[00:14:04] really need to sort of commit to

[00:14:06] it. I think, you know,

[00:14:08] candidates and talent are

[00:14:09] looking for a level playing

[00:14:11] field, and they're looking for

[00:14:12] businesses who can really

[00:14:13] clearly demonstrate DNI. And I

[00:14:16] think that ultimately creates

[00:14:18] a more open and inclusive

[00:14:19] environment, which as a result

[00:14:21] widens the talent pool,

[00:14:22] enabling organizations to

[00:14:24] hire more effectively.

[00:14:27] And given the significant

[00:14:29] rise in the perceived risk

[00:14:30] of talent shortages, which

[00:14:32] were highlighted in the recent

[00:14:33] Capgemini survey, when you see a

[00:14:35] report like that, how are you

[00:14:37] addressing that gap between the

[00:14:39] talent availability and open

[00:14:41] roles? Just to bring to life

[00:14:43] what we're talking about. Do you

[00:14:44] have any examples of innovative

[00:14:46] approaches that you're finding

[00:14:48] to be effective?

[00:14:49] Yeah, yeah, none. I took a look

[00:14:51] at that that Capgemini survey

[00:14:54] and for the listeners, I mean,

[00:14:56] one of the key standout pieces

[00:14:57] was, you know, really

[00:14:58] highlighted that it's a 60%

[00:15:00] of organizations are now

[00:15:02] citing talent scarcity as a

[00:15:05] key business risk.

[00:15:08] You know, it's clear that there's

[00:15:10] been real significant

[00:15:11] disruption in the supply chain

[00:15:13] of talent caused by Brexit and

[00:15:15] COVID AI and many new factors.

[00:15:17] But you know, this is not a new

[00:15:19] problem. Like I said, I've

[00:15:20] been in the space for 22 years

[00:15:22] and I can remember when, you

[00:15:23] know, McKinsey came out

[00:15:24] citing the war for talent

[00:15:26] back in the late 90s.

[00:15:28] And I think I think companies

[00:15:29] are becoming more self aware on

[00:15:31] the importance of, you know,

[00:15:33] building a highly efficient and

[00:15:35] skilled workforce as a force

[00:15:37] multiplier. But companies also

[00:15:40] face stress from all sides.

[00:15:42] They've got compliance in

[00:15:43] legislation. They're constantly

[00:15:45] chasing growth. And the overall

[00:15:48] business environment because of

[00:15:50] globalization is becoming much

[00:15:51] more complex. So, you know,

[00:15:54] talent needs to be both

[00:15:55] available and also optimized,

[00:15:57] which is quite hard to do.

[00:15:58] So we help organizations, you

[00:16:00] know, cast a wider net to

[00:16:02] become more efficient and

[00:16:04] accurate in support of

[00:16:06] securing highly suitable

[00:16:08] talents. We in fact wrote a

[00:16:10] book on something that we

[00:16:11] call hiring success, which is

[00:16:13] centered on the importance of

[00:16:15] talent. And we focus to

[00:16:16] ensure our customers can out

[00:16:18] hire the competition by

[00:16:20] enabling them to attract,

[00:16:22] engage and hire the right

[00:16:23] people. In terms of some

[00:16:24] examples, let's think of a

[00:16:26] few. So right at the beginning

[00:16:28] of the process, you know,

[00:16:29] career sites, how you engage

[00:16:31] with candidates, we have an

[00:16:33] intelligent career site

[00:16:34] solution enabling companies to

[00:16:36] better engage passive

[00:16:38] candidates and convert them

[00:16:39] into applicants, which really

[00:16:41] helps. On another aspect, CRM

[00:16:45] and recruitment marketing

[00:16:46] enables customers to build

[00:16:47] relationships ahead of demand

[00:16:49] and create talent pipelines of

[00:16:51] pre qualified people, which

[00:16:53] as I mentioned earlier can

[00:16:55] really help accelerate and

[00:16:56] shorten recruitment cycles.

[00:16:58] We've got chat bots and AI

[00:17:00] co pilots that automate

[00:17:02] candidate questions and answers

[00:17:04] on the aforementioned career

[00:17:05] sites or perhaps the initial

[00:17:07] sifting, we build

[00:17:09] intelligence into the

[00:17:10] workflows as well. And you

[00:17:13] know, see you again reduce

[00:17:15] the manual tasks. And we

[00:17:16] also help organizations mine

[00:17:18] their own sort of data set

[00:17:20] of talent and talent pools

[00:17:21] more effectively to minimize

[00:17:23] waste. So they can reuse

[00:17:24] candidates and don't go out and

[00:17:26] waste waste money advertising

[00:17:28] when they've got people in

[00:17:28] their talent pool. And the

[00:17:31] final couple of things is, you

[00:17:32] know, thinking about today's

[00:17:33] world, you know, the number of

[00:17:35] technologies that businesses

[00:17:37] use our API and integration

[00:17:39] capabilities, ensure companies

[00:17:41] can harness the value of an

[00:17:42] open ecosystem, they can

[00:17:44] implement, you know, smooth

[00:17:45] data flows up and downstream

[00:17:47] with different systems,

[00:17:48] improve data quality and

[00:17:50] therefore the decision making.

[00:17:52] And finally, we've got a

[00:17:54] we were one of the first to

[00:17:55] really go out and build a

[00:17:56] marketplace of pre integrated

[00:17:58] third parties, which

[00:18:00] really provides a lot of

[00:18:01] agility to our customers and

[00:18:03] choice of literally hundreds of

[00:18:04] different recruitment

[00:18:05] technology roadmaps. So

[00:18:07] customers can remain agile and

[00:18:09] relevant and stay ahead of

[00:18:11] the competition.

[00:18:13] And of course, one of the

[00:18:14] other problems is good bad

[00:18:16] news sales against lots of

[00:18:17] clicks and everybody is

[00:18:18] such stories, but the good

[00:18:20] news doesn't. So when you

[00:18:21] mentioned AI and automation,

[00:18:23] and then how it's shaping the

[00:18:24] landscape in recruitment, a lot

[00:18:26] of people automatically go,

[00:18:27] I've heard about the dark side

[00:18:30] of it. There's so many

[00:18:31] different things about

[00:18:32] cameras that record people

[00:18:34] joining interviews, etc.

[00:18:36] There's a lot of myths out

[00:18:37] there as well. So what are

[00:18:39] some of the common misconceptions

[00:18:41] about these technologies in

[00:18:43] hiring that maybe we can

[00:18:44] finally later rest today and

[00:18:46] how are you smart recruiters?

[00:18:48] How are you educating your

[00:18:49] clients in the market about

[00:18:51] the the actual real impact and

[00:18:53] potential and the good stuff

[00:18:54] that can happen here?

[00:18:55] Yeah, yeah. It's it's

[00:18:58] it's clear that AI is a

[00:19:00] really big ticket item.

[00:19:02] You know, there's a lot of

[00:19:03] press as you've said, there's

[00:19:04] a lot of fanfare.

[00:19:05] There's a lot of fear.

[00:19:07] There's a lot of mislabelling

[00:19:08] as I've mentioned.

[00:19:09] And there's a huge amount of

[00:19:11] potential. But you know, in

[00:19:13] reality, I think it's still

[00:19:15] in its infancy in recruiting

[00:19:16] in some ways.

[00:19:18] You know, there's lots of

[00:19:19] common misconceptions that

[00:19:21] they're pretty varied.

[00:19:22] There's a lot of debate around

[00:19:24] whether AI will replace

[00:19:25] recruiters. I do believe

[00:19:28] that it has the capability to

[00:19:29] replace a lot of the aspects

[00:19:31] of recruiting, but it can't

[00:19:33] completely replace.

[00:19:35] You know, we're seeing that

[00:19:36] there are some earlier doctors

[00:19:37] who you know, businesses who

[00:19:39] have gone out to completely

[00:19:40] automate hiring.

[00:19:42] And but they're actually

[00:19:43] actually suffering with higher

[00:19:45] turnover rates as candidates

[00:19:46] feel less connected with

[00:19:48] the culture. So it's not the

[00:19:50] silver bullet.

[00:19:52] And I think AI needs to work

[00:19:54] alongside other human aspects

[00:19:56] of hiring.

[00:19:57] And you know, what we do, you

[00:19:59] know, we try to be pretty

[00:20:00] pragmatic. Like I say, we've

[00:20:02] got AI in our platform

[00:20:04] so we focus on educating

[00:20:06] organizations on where AI

[00:20:09] can add value.

[00:20:10] And we're also being

[00:20:11] realistic about its

[00:20:12] capabilities.

[00:20:13] So yeah, we, you know, we

[00:20:16] want to ensure that as a

[00:20:18] vendor, you know, we're embracing

[00:20:20] the rising legislation, you

[00:20:21] know, we're completing the

[00:20:22] required audits to build

[00:20:24] confidence in our customers

[00:20:26] as this space is developing.

[00:20:28] And it really is developing at

[00:20:29] a very fast pace and

[00:20:30] legislation quite frankly

[00:20:32] is struggling to catch up

[00:20:34] and keep out the pace

[00:20:36] of innovation.

[00:20:38] So we see this as part of

[00:20:39] our responsibility. We take it

[00:20:40] very seriously.

[00:20:41] The same as sort of data

[00:20:42] protection, obviously, you

[00:20:44] know, hosting large sets of

[00:20:45] data is a bread and butter

[00:20:46] with what we do.

[00:20:48] But you know, in terms of

[00:20:49] innovation, AI is core to our

[00:20:51] strategy. So we plan to release

[00:20:52] as have several co pilots to

[00:20:54] support the high value use cases

[00:20:56] that we've identified as being

[00:20:58] the most impactful.

[00:21:00] I'm just going back to the

[00:21:01] beginning of our conversation

[00:21:02] now this emphasis on skills

[00:21:04] over experience, it feels like

[00:21:06] a complete flip, almost a

[00:21:08] paradigm shift in hiring

[00:21:10] philosophy. So how do you

[00:21:12] envision this affecting the

[00:21:13] long term strategies of

[00:21:14] businesses across various

[00:21:16] industries and what role do you

[00:21:17] see yourselves at Smart Recruit

[00:21:19] as playing in maybe supporting

[00:21:21] this transformation because it

[00:21:23] it'll take a little time for a

[00:21:25] lot of businesses to get their

[00:21:26] heads around this, won't it?

[00:21:27] Yeah. Yeah. And I think the

[00:21:30] I think the challenge varies

[00:21:34] by the size and complexity

[00:21:35] in the nature of organizations.

[00:21:37] But it's, you know, I think

[00:21:38] the biggest lift

[00:21:40] for companies to embrace this

[00:21:42] opportunity is looking at

[00:21:44] sort of skills taxonomies

[00:21:46] and mapping their current and

[00:21:47] future needs.

[00:21:49] Businesses, you know, need to

[00:21:50] have a bit of a crystal ball,

[00:21:51] need to look into the future.

[00:21:53] They need to assess potential

[00:21:54] more effectively.

[00:21:56] They they obviously need to

[00:21:57] ensure that they have the right

[00:21:59] capabilities to develop skills

[00:22:01] as well as as well as hire them.

[00:22:04] And they also need to focus on

[00:22:05] which skills will be relevant

[00:22:06] to drive their business outcomes.

[00:22:09] You know, often I think it's

[00:22:10] a combination of skills

[00:22:12] and the ability to apply them

[00:22:14] in the right way, which

[00:22:16] you know, in some cases, I think

[00:22:17] can only be demonstrated by

[00:22:18] previous successes.

[00:22:19] But that's also flawed

[00:22:22] as someone could be successful

[00:22:23] in one company

[00:22:25] and then not another.

[00:22:26] And it's all down to, I think,

[00:22:27] context. So I'm

[00:22:29] I'm no expert in this area, but

[00:22:31] I do think it's a big problem

[00:22:33] space, which is highly complex

[00:22:35] in the majority of organizations

[00:22:37] and smart recruiters.

[00:22:39] You know, we're we're trying

[00:22:40] to help organizations on this

[00:22:42] journey by providing

[00:22:44] a core system of record.

[00:22:45] You know, combining internal

[00:22:47] and external talents and

[00:22:49] ensuring that that data is

[00:22:50] compliant and it's refreshed

[00:22:51] and up to date. And by maintaining

[00:22:54] a compelling and engaging user

[00:22:55] experience to support the data

[00:22:57] quality. And you know, as I've

[00:22:58] mentioned, overlaying AI

[00:23:00] and a continued roadmap of

[00:23:02] innovation to ensure our

[00:23:03] customers don't fall behind

[00:23:05] and can be agile, as I've said

[00:23:07] in the future, whatever it holds.

[00:23:10] And you mentioned a crystal ball

[00:23:11] a few moments ago.

[00:23:12] So I'm going to challenge you

[00:23:14] now if you were to look at my

[00:23:15] virtual crystal ball at the

[00:23:17] future of work.

[00:23:18] What emerging trends or

[00:23:20] technologies do you think will

[00:23:22] further influence the recruitment

[00:23:24] process and how are you at

[00:23:25] smart recruiters preparing to

[00:23:26] maybe adapt or lead in these

[00:23:29] areas? And it is a huge, almost

[00:23:31] impossible question. Nobody saw

[00:23:32] the speed in which

[00:23:33] generative AI would just

[00:23:35] transform everything. But how

[00:23:36] do you think how do you see

[00:23:37] things evolving over the next

[00:23:39] year and beyond?

[00:23:40] Yeah, so yes, this is my

[00:23:42] crystal ball moment.

[00:23:44] I'm always cautious on

[00:23:46] forecasting because

[00:23:49] just going back to a career

[00:23:50] pivot I had back in the day

[00:23:53] from being a recruiter to

[00:23:54] selling recruitment technology,

[00:23:56] I really did think recruitment

[00:23:58] technology was going to kill

[00:23:59] recruitment agencies.

[00:24:01] And the last 20 years has

[00:24:03] proved that that's not been

[00:24:04] the case. So want to be a

[00:24:06] little bit careful. But I

[00:24:08] do think we're at an

[00:24:09] inflection point.

[00:24:10] I've gone on the record

[00:24:11] before about an arms race

[00:24:13] in AI. And by that I mean

[00:24:16] both the candidates and

[00:24:17] employers are trying to harness

[00:24:18] tools to enable their best

[00:24:20] outcomes. You know, candidates

[00:24:22] are now using AI to mine for

[00:24:23] jobs, right? Right CVs to be

[00:24:25] optimized by the AI

[00:24:27] readers that are being

[00:24:29] incorporated into recruitment

[00:24:30] technology. They're using

[00:24:32] tools to communicate with

[00:24:33] hundreds of employers to

[00:24:35] really maximize their

[00:24:36] chances of success. Meanwhile,

[00:24:38] on the other side of the

[00:24:39] fence, organizations are

[00:24:41] looking at AI to handle the

[00:24:43] candidate volumes, reduce that

[00:24:45] manual intervention as we've

[00:24:46] spoken about, effectively

[00:24:48] hire more with less and

[00:24:50] drive efficiencies. So it's

[00:24:51] going to be really

[00:24:53] interesting, you know, where

[00:24:56] we end up in terms of a

[00:24:57] balance because to me they

[00:24:58] are two sides of the same

[00:25:00] coin. And both sides need

[00:25:02] each other. But both seem

[00:25:04] to be in competition at the

[00:25:05] moment. We're smart

[00:25:07] recruiters is as I've said

[00:25:08] in the past, we're looking at

[00:25:09] this holistically, you know,

[00:25:11] candidate experience is key.

[00:25:13] You know, they do deserve an

[00:25:14] efficient application process.

[00:25:16] They do deserve to be updated

[00:25:18] to have feedback. And of

[00:25:20] course, organizations need to

[00:25:22] drive more efficiency. So we

[00:25:25] lead by looking at the bigger

[00:25:26] picture and making improvements

[00:25:27] for candidates hiring managers

[00:25:29] and recruiters. We don't

[00:25:31] value one over the other as

[00:25:33] hiring success explains you need

[00:25:35] to optimize for all three. So

[00:25:37] the AI is going to be the big

[00:25:40] topic that needs to be resolved

[00:25:43] moving forward. And yeah,

[00:25:46] watch this space is all I can

[00:25:47] say.

[00:25:48] Watch this space in the

[00:25:50] level of charity today. We

[00:25:51] busted a few myths along the

[00:25:52] way and talked about things

[00:25:54] that language everyone can

[00:25:55] understand and hopefully get

[00:25:56] a few more people on board.

[00:25:58] And before I let you go,

[00:25:59] I'm going to ask you to

[00:26:00] leave everyone listening with

[00:26:01] one final insight. And that

[00:26:03] is a book that means

[00:26:04] something to you that we

[00:26:05] can add to our Amazon wish

[00:26:06] list for everyone to check or a

[00:26:08] song for our Spotify playlist.

[00:26:09] Guilty pleasures are allowed,

[00:26:11] but what would you like to leave

[00:26:13] everyone listening with and why?

[00:26:14] Gosh, yeah, I think I think

[00:26:16] these people closest to me

[00:26:19] they have got a pretty eclectic

[00:26:20] taste. Just just to sort of

[00:26:23] explain that as a young man, I

[00:26:24] grew up in a house in the

[00:26:25] center of the woods down in

[00:26:27] wayridge in Surrey. And my

[00:26:28] parents were kind of two

[00:26:30] opposites. I had an earth

[00:26:31] mother and a really

[00:26:32] entrepreneurial father. So I

[00:26:35] can remember watching

[00:26:36] Trading Places with Eddie

[00:26:37] Murphy and thinking how crazy

[00:26:38] the stock market was, you know,

[00:26:40] if it's people can decide for

[00:26:42] I grew up in the 80s. But I was

[00:26:43] also, you know, intrigued by

[00:26:45] all organized crime, financial

[00:26:47] crime and secret societies.

[00:26:49] So my book collection ranges

[00:26:51] from spiritual examples

[00:26:54] like, you know, Celestine

[00:26:55] Prophecy by James Redfield,

[00:26:58] all the way to things like

[00:26:59] Michael Ridpath. He's a great

[00:27:00] crime writer, I think, with

[00:27:01] books like Trading Reality.

[00:27:03] But probably I read the one

[00:27:05] that made me sort of sit and

[00:27:06] think a bit on a beach one day

[00:27:08] with this book called The Four

[00:27:10] Agreements by Don Regal Ruiz.

[00:27:13] It's a short read. It's a bit

[00:27:14] hippie, but it really spoke to

[00:27:16] me about being authentic.

[00:27:18] Business books tend to bore

[00:27:19] me. Yeah.

[00:27:21] Yeah, being being honest.

[00:27:22] But I do get through them.

[00:27:24] And most recently I read the

[00:27:25] qualified sales leader by

[00:27:26] John McMahon, which is

[00:27:28] written like a novel, which

[00:27:30] I thought was pretty cool.

[00:27:31] But I guess I guess one

[00:27:32] they've won somebody wanted

[00:27:33] the business book recommendation

[00:27:35] and thinking about my current

[00:27:37] job and the global

[00:27:39] role I'm in, the culture map

[00:27:41] by Erin Mayer, which is

[00:27:43] about cross-cultural leadership.

[00:27:45] And you know, in terms of

[00:27:47] Spotify playlists and again,

[00:27:49] you know, you got the love

[00:27:50] by Candy Staten lifts me up.

[00:27:53] That's probably a few options

[00:27:54] for your listeners.

[00:27:56] Yeah, I will get all of those

[00:27:58] added. And Candy Staten,

[00:27:59] you got the love. What a

[00:28:00] tune that is.

[00:28:01] I saw her at Glastonbury

[00:28:03] about 10 years ago.

[00:28:04] And I don't know, there's

[00:28:06] just people of every age

[00:28:07] just dancing.

[00:28:08] You know, it's just beautiful,

[00:28:09] beautiful, my great tune.

[00:28:10] I will get that added.

[00:28:12] And but anyone listening

[00:28:13] just wanting to find more

[00:28:14] information about smart

[00:28:16] recruiters contacting you or

[00:28:17] your team?

[00:28:18] Well, do you like the point

[00:28:19] everyone listening?

[00:28:20] Yeah, no, appreciate that.

[00:28:22] So probably the easiest place

[00:28:24] and this is for people

[00:28:26] just to drop by our website.

[00:28:27] So smart recruiters.com

[00:28:30] you get a lot more insight

[00:28:31] into our solutions and case

[00:28:33] studies. And you can find

[00:28:35] out, you know, a lot more.

[00:28:37] And if you are specifically

[00:28:39] considering changing your

[00:28:40] recruitment technology

[00:28:42] solution, you know, do get in

[00:28:43] touch, you know, just fill out

[00:28:45] a contact form and one of the

[00:28:47] team will be will be back in

[00:28:48] touch. And we've got teams

[00:28:49] across Europe, US,

[00:28:51] Australia and New Zealand who

[00:28:52] are ready to help and really

[00:28:54] passionate about solving the

[00:28:56] challenges that organizations

[00:28:57] face. And if any of you and

[00:28:59] the listeners are on the

[00:29:00] road, we are planning

[00:29:02] to attend industry events.

[00:29:03] We're at HR Tech in Amsterdam

[00:29:06] 17th and 18th of April

[00:29:08] and also on leash in America

[00:29:10] May the 7th through the 9th,

[00:29:12] you know, come along, say hi

[00:29:13] and meet the team.

[00:29:15] Wow, I will get all those

[00:29:16] links. I do it would be great

[00:29:18] to stay in touch with you.

[00:29:19] We covered so much in a short

[00:29:20] amount of time there from why

[00:29:22] leaders must prioritize skills

[00:29:24] over experience when looking

[00:29:26] for new talent. How AI and

[00:29:27] automation are starting to be

[00:29:29] used in hiring and how these

[00:29:30] technologies will actually end

[00:29:32] and enhance the human impact

[00:29:34] in recruitment busted a few

[00:29:35] myths and even had time to talk

[00:29:37] about a few books and that

[00:29:38] cracking song by candy

[00:29:40] started. So thanks for joining

[00:29:41] me today. It's been an absolute

[00:29:43] pleasure, Neil. Thank you for

[00:29:44] having me. Rob is an

[00:29:45] incredibly cool guy and I've

[00:29:46] spoken to him today for what

[00:29:48] 30 40 minutes. I think it's

[00:29:50] clear that the future of

[00:29:51] hiring is dynamic.

[00:29:53] And it demands both

[00:29:54] innovative thinking and

[00:29:55] strategic flexibility from

[00:29:57] its HR leaders.

[00:29:59] And HR Tech has had a

[00:30:00] reputation for being clunky

[00:30:02] over the years. So first of all,

[00:30:03] it's great to hear that that has

[00:30:04] changed. And I cannot thank

[00:30:06] Rob enough for showing his

[00:30:07] invaluable insights into how

[00:30:09] prioritizing skills over

[00:30:11] experience, leveraging AI and

[00:30:14] automation and committing to

[00:30:16] a robust diversity and

[00:30:17] inclusion strategy, businesses

[00:30:19] can dramatically transform their

[00:30:21] recruitment outcomes.

[00:30:24] So the big question is what

[00:30:25] steps is your organization

[00:30:28] taking to addressing some of

[00:30:29] these challenges?

[00:30:31] Are you seeing a shift towards

[00:30:33] these new paradigms in your

[00:30:34] recruitment process? We've got

[00:30:36] people listening all around the

[00:30:37] world and in every region,

[00:30:38] every continent, things are

[00:30:40] going to be different. So I'd

[00:30:41] love to hear your thoughts.

[00:30:43] So please share your

[00:30:44] experiences, join the

[00:30:45] discussion on how we can all

[00:30:47] contribute to a more

[00:30:49] inclusive and effective

[00:30:50] talent acquisition environment.

[00:30:53] And let's continue the

[00:30:54] conversation and drive

[00:30:55] change together.

[00:30:58] And you can do all that by

[00:30:59] emailing me tech blog writer

[00:31:01] outlook.com, Twitter, LinkedIn,

[00:31:03] Instagram, just at Neil Seacuse.

[00:31:05] But more than anything, just

[00:31:06] thank you for listening today

[00:31:08] and until next time,

[00:31:12] don't be a stranger.