2911: Workday on Inclusivity: Pioneering the Path for Women in Technology

[00:00:01] How can we foster the next generation of female innovators in tech and collectively help create a truly inclusive industry? Well my guests today Claire Hickey and CTO Emiya at Workday and Caroline O'Reilly, General Manager of Analytics at Workday. Well they're dedicated to answering these questions so

[00:00:22] I've invited them both on to see what we can do together. We're going to share how an employee first mindset helped Workday provide inclusive solutions based on feedback and help create a workplace where everybody can thrive and also discussing the importance of addressing things like menopause at work

[00:00:42] to improving retention and offering industry experience opportunities for all genders. Claire and Caroline are going to explore all the challenges and the strategies required to empower women in tech. It's a cracking conversation this one so buckle up and hold on tight because no matter where you're

[00:01:01] listening in the world right now I'm going to be beaming your ears directly to Dublin where you can join me Claire and Caroline in a conversation about how we can reshape the tech industry and inspire inclusion. So first of all a

[00:01:16] massive warm welcome back to the show Claire. I think we last spoke around six months ago but for anyone that missed that conversation can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? Of course thank you and I

[00:01:28] was delighted to be asked back and I hope we can do the same again and again. So my name is Claire Hickey and CTO for NBA here at Workday. I've now been at Workday nearly six years coming up for my sixth year anniversary next month

[00:01:42] and previous experience I come from blue-chipped organisations as in GSK and GE. As CTO the role here is to really focus on being that technology champion who really inspires organisations to achieve their full advantage from this rich platform we have at Workday and the ecosystem. I also

[00:02:05] serve on the board of directors for Workday Limited and of course we're going to dive into this a whole lot more, a real advocate for women in tech. Before I hand over to Caroline I just want to introduce Workday really quickly.

[00:02:18] So this is for any of the listeners that are not familiar with Workday. We are a leading enterprise platform that really helps organisations manage their most important assets and that of course is their people and their money. So our

[00:02:33] platform is built with AI, the real topic at the moment, right at the core to help customers really elevate people supercharge that work and really move their business forward. We've got over 10,000 customers around the world,

[00:02:49] with varying industries, varying sizes of which we are all delighted to be part of Workday as an organisation. Fantastic, thank you Claire and you have brought company with you today. We've got Caroline joining you. So Caroline can you just tell everyone listening a

[00:03:06] little about who you are what you do too? Sure. Hi Neil, how are you? I'm delighted to be here with my friend Claire. We had great fun just before this call. So I am GM of analytics at Workday. I've been in

[00:03:17] Workday 12 years, it's hard to believe, it's really flown by. And what that means is I manage the design and development of all our analytics products. So all those products that enable our customers to get faster insights into their data. And

[00:03:31] so we have a couple of analytics products in Workday. We have People Analytics, which we call our analyst in a box, that's powered by ML. And we have Prism Analytics, which is our data hub for enabling you to securely blend your third

[00:03:46] party data with your Workday data. And we also run all of our core reporting in Workday. Great to chat to you today. Well, a massive warm welcome to you both. I invited you on the podcast today. I've

[00:03:58] been read about the great work that you were doing around International Women's Day and highlighting inspiring inclusion. So obviously that was a few weeks ago, and this is going to go live in June. But can you just share your thoughts on why an

[00:04:12] employee first mindset is crucial in creating that more inclusive tech industry? Because the event or the day might have passed, but the topic is ever present and something we need to keep that momentum building, don't we?

[00:04:26] Yeah, that's true. I mean, I love International Women's Day. We do a lot on the day, but we do a lot around enabling opportunities for women as well. And the days of the year too, I'm pretty passionate about that. I really see technology as an

[00:04:39] amazing career for all, not just for women, but I'm pretty passionate about enabling everyone of every background to have a career in tech. For me, when I joined Workday 12 years ago, on the first day I joined, I noticed something very different that I

[00:04:52] hadn't seen in any other company. I noticed an awful lot of women in senior tech roles around me. And I was like, wow, this is kind of different. And it really struck me, you

[00:05:03] know, the cliche, if you can see it, you can be it. But it really mattered to me on that first day. And I feel like even since then, like I really feel there isn't a glass

[00:05:14] ceiling at Workday for women because I see women have amazing careers here and to be in very senior roles here. And I can only echo what Caroline has just said. She's phenomenal to work with and she

[00:05:25] really is an inspiration. And it's great to work with her and alongside her and learn from her. You know, in turn to this question, I think it's a great question. And what I want to say here is kind of elevate Natalia.

[00:05:39] Our vision at Workday is one of what we call is value, inclusion, belonging and equities, we call them V.I.B.E. And all this means is that, you know, we are a workplace where all workmates are

[00:05:52] valued for their unique perspectives and really, you know, respected as equal and given that fair access to opportunity, giving that employee first mindset. Now, for me, I've been in the tech world for most of my years and in the workplace

[00:06:11] and it's you know, it's not always been easy being a female in tech. And I want to really say that that really was the case until I kind of arrived at Workday. And now what we say is we vibe every day here at Workday.

[00:06:26] And one of the things, as you know, I always try and do on this podcast is getting people thinking differently about work and the impacts of technology and also help increase self-awareness about critical areas in the workplace right now.

[00:06:38] And one area I'd love to touch upon with you both is how can tech companies effectively implement policies that address menopause in the workplace? It's a huge topic right now. And I'd also maybe expand on why this discussion is vital for retaining and attracting midlife female workers.

[00:06:56] Yeah. And first off, another great question and certainly one that's very close to my heart. You know, it's really interesting because did you know that about one in eight people in the world is going through the journey of menopause?

[00:07:14] And that really is making up about 20 percent of the global workforce. It's a big number, right? So Workday, we really are proud to support workmates experiencing menopause and it's about their families and all the workmates to create about this inclusive environment.

[00:07:31] Now, our support model for menopause includes benefits to really support that holistic health and create a comfortable working environment. Menopause is uncomfortable. And what we also have is that we're able to take some time off and we've got the

[00:07:48] MAVEN, we're associated with the MAVEN menopause, which really is a specialised programme to support workmates in every step through their menopause journey. Now, you also need outstanding leaders and managers. So we want to help to fix everyone differently.

[00:08:04] And it can really vary over time, as we all well know. And so, you know, our workmates experiencing menopause and those menopausal symptoms are really encouraged to have this open and regular discussion about work related help or flexibility

[00:08:21] that they may need to fit their needs as best as possible so they can be effective and they can be comfortable at work. And we really are made to feel empowered to ask about those adjustments to really help to ease the symptoms of menopause in the workplace.

[00:08:36] And what's important about all of this is that we can do this without embarrassment. So, you know, it's really is vital from my perspective, and I hope you can hear the passion in me in this. It's vital for all organisations, not just tech.

[00:08:50] So when it comes to menopause and indeed, you know, all of these stages that we take through life, both as men and women, in order to really retain and attract talent, it's

[00:09:01] an incredible topic, it's an incredible journey and it's one of life in terms of how we manage that in our workplace. And Clare, to add to that, you know, you talked about the importance of having an understanding

[00:09:13] manager and having a manager who has empathy with you no matter what stage of life you're going through. We have a wall downstairs near our reception called the Wall of Inclusion, and it enables people to write down sort of the invisible diversity that they have.

[00:09:30] You look at that and you have people who have endometriosis, you have folks who are grieving, there's people who are going through IVF, there's folks who are carers for older relatives. I don't think there's any of us who aren't going through something in our lives and having

[00:09:46] that ability to talk to your manager, having an empathetic manager, someone who can help you on that journey. We all go through these things at different parts of our lives. 100% and I completely agree with everything you've said there, all the sentiments, and

[00:09:59] it's something that I'm seeing as I get older as well with caring for parents, etc. I also think that diversity of thought is crucial in not only solving complex problems, but also in serving a diverse range of customers.

[00:10:14] In your experiences, are there any specific strategic strategies that you've found that have proven successful in attracting more women into tech roles, particularly through industry experience offerings? What are you seeing here? Well, I always say start early. You can't start early enough.

[00:10:30] I have two teenage daughters now, but I've been starting very early with them on how they think about STEM subjects. There's a special place in my heart for the people who really work with early young women in primary and secondary schools to introduce them to technology.

[00:10:47] Also in areas of Dublin, for instance, that maybe some schools wouldn't have access to technology. We work with a lot of those schools too. I just spoke at a Code Plus event in Trinity College a few weeks ago where they brought

[00:11:00] in female students from secondary school who were interested to hear about technology. And really like the energy in the room was unbelievable, like from these amazing women coming together. And recently we also hosted an event here in the Dublin office with Flavilla von Guyen

[00:11:17] from GTA Black Women in Tech. She's an incredible lady who has this mission to bring more black women into tech. And I remember it was a really bad rainy day in the evening. We thought, gosh, maybe nobody's going to turn up.

[00:11:30] And we had a full house of young women and young black women as well in the office, super interested about how they can grow their careers in technology. Afterwards, there was so much conversation going on about the room.

[00:11:45] So I think it's really important to go out early, to start early with the next generation. Yeah, I'm going to lean in there, is there, Caroline? You know what? I hope you can hear the smile on my face if you can hear a smile on my faces.

[00:12:02] But these strategies become really important. And one that I've leaned in on lately is that from a workday perspective, we recently signed up to be part of Connecting Women in Technology. We're a team called SeaWisp in Ireland.

[00:12:18] And what that is, it's a network of over 20 Irish-based technology companies with a real shared mission to attract, retain and promote women in the technology sector. So this is about doing it together. And really, it's that vision that we have to kind of achieve that 50-50 female workforce

[00:12:36] in this sector. Now as part of that, I'm actually co-leading with a girl called Jacqueline Lynch, who I have to say, Neal, I really want you to interview her one day also. Phenomenal work, needs huge inspiration, incredibly motivating. And she certainly does vibe every day.

[00:12:54] But what we've done together is we've created two initiatives in this area. One is internal and it's about, we set up these mentoring circles. So this is really providing an environment for our workmates to be able to share and learn and really feel supported in that group scenario.

[00:13:12] And then the second one, again, I mentioned about like talking to schools. So what we're doing is that we're actually going into schools and we're talking to transition year and fifth year students in schools all over Ireland.

[00:13:24] And what we're doing, it's not about talking about work day and it's not about talking about the actual jobs that we do, but what we're doing is we're sharing our experiences

[00:13:33] of our careers in technology and what it can be like to work in a tech company, but in general, right across the technology domain. And what we're really looking for there is to provide that inspiration.

[00:13:47] You know, we go into the classroom and you've got these young people looking at us. And one of the first questions we asked often is that, you know, put your hand up if you've thought about or want a career in technology and that's, you know, that's your planned

[00:14:02] career. And we may, for example, this is an example, see five hands go up. And then what we do is we kind of test that leaving and we make this fun along the way, right?

[00:14:12] So we then ask them to put their hands up when we're walking out the classroom. And then you could easily guess with more hands up. So, you know, this is about moving the needle.

[00:14:20] And I suppose in many ways, what we're trying to do is demystify this idea of the dark room quarter syndrome. It's myself and Caroline talking and just really show how dynamic, interesting, innovative careers and tech can be for all and not just women.

[00:14:38] And the other thing we do here is we've got an employee belonging council. So this is in particular, we've got one for Women at Work Day. I sponsored this one for Dublin.

[00:14:48] And this is a community open to, again, it's open to all of our workmates and that's to provide the support and connecting really in power internally. And it's really important that our community feels valued. And that's really what we set out to do here.

[00:15:05] And consider this an open invitation to Jacqueline Lynch. I'd love to get on the podcast to continue the conversation that we're having today. And although things have improved in the industry, there's still so much work needs to be done.

[00:15:19] And I'd love to shine a light on some of these challenges that still sadly exist out there. So are you able to share any of the barriers that currently prevent women from entering or progressing in the tech industry and how at Workday you're helping to dismantle some

[00:15:34] of these obstacles? But again, what are you seeing here? I think the worst one we have really is the brand. It does bother me every time I look at the news and there's been some cyber related news

[00:15:47] article and we see this like solitary coder in the dark in front of a screen of green and black, you know, and it just really bothers me like that. That is not at all what working in the tech industry is like. It's such a team sport.

[00:16:01] I don't know if you watch Bad Sisters, Neil, but what I want to shout out to Sharon of Oregon here today is please make a Bad Sisters about women in the tech industry. We need to change that brand. It's not a solitary role at all.

[00:16:16] So but to do this right, to do it, you have to make this like any business challenge. You have to treat it like a business challenge. You have to set goals like what sort of need do you want to move?

[00:16:26] Like how are you going to hold yourself accountable at the end of the year? And you have to have those those data insights as well to to enable you to see the progress you're making.

[00:16:37] One of my favorite things that we do here is called Future Females in Tech. And that started off by us looking at the data in 2018 and seeing that we had a really low number of female applications for internships.

[00:16:51] And so the team got together to figure out what could they do about this? And so they started off this two day immersive experience that we run in the office in Dublin to bring in young women into the office for two days who are usually in college.

[00:17:09] And we share leadership stories with them. We share career skills with them. We share design thinking challenges and they do exercises together and they make a real network together. And after that, like in their year before they finish, they can apply for a six month

[00:17:25] internship out of this with potential to be hired after they graduate. And what we've seen again, looking at the data, holding ourselves accountable, setting goals for ourselves, we've seen the number of female interns has increased seven fold since we started that program.

[00:17:44] So really important to set a goal, hold yourselves accountable and then make the action happen. 100% with you, Caroline, especially around the hooded hacker hunched over a keyboard with a screen of code behind him, the Terminator robots with red eyes and lack of any positive tech movers.

[00:18:04] It seems that every film about the future is always dystopian. But anything you'd like to add to that, Claire? Yeah, I would. You know, I think one of the biggest barriers can often also be our styles and possibly even our backgrounds. It's really interesting.

[00:18:20] I was telling you this morning, I was doing some research and I can send it to you. It was actually done by two teenage boys down in Cork and they won an award for this. But what it shows is that stereotyping can happen at a really early age.

[00:18:33] That's actually between the ages of five and seven. So I'm happy to share this with you offline, Neil, as well, if you want to share this with the community. But I found that quite fascinating and it was a bit of an aha moment for me, I have

[00:18:45] to say. You know, recently I was talking to a woman in Workday. We were out for dinner with a group and she was sitting beside me. She told me her story where she had taken, I believe it was a 10 year long career break

[00:19:00] and that was for family reasons, caring reasons, etc. And she hesitated in applying for jobs in organisations and companies like Workday. And she said that she did that because she didn't have the confidence to be able to really gauge where she was from a skillset perspective.

[00:19:20] She thought that maybe her skills were now out of date. And she also had this belief that modern tech companies was for young people. And I say this with inverted commas, quoting. So but she's now back in the workplace in Workday, she's loving it.

[00:19:33] And she says, I wished I knew that. I wished I could have been this comfortable when I had this perspective and view in terms of when I was trying to really kind of break through in terms of how do I restart my career?

[00:19:45] Now, what's interesting about this is that we also do have a return to work programme here and we do that because it really does enrich our workforce to have fostered that inclusive culture. But it contributes to our diversity and our inclusion efforts by tapping in to a diverse

[00:20:03] pool of talent. That may include individuals for underrepresented groups of diverse backgrounds, but it also helps to infuse into our talent pipeline development strategy. So really helping us in terms of being robust around the pipeline by really ensuring that

[00:20:22] we can have these professionals really back into the workforce. And what's interesting is that we can learn a lot from this also. So they bring with them this huge diverse skillset. It's a fresh perspective, it's creative ideas.

[00:20:36] And I think that it's also about experience and a sense of maturity. So our returners are returning into the workplace after a period and a gap from a career break. We see these valuable contributors who bring this wealth of experience and expertise and

[00:20:55] that sense of maturity into that role. And that's why I can say this with a smile on my face remembering the evening that I spent with this particular woman. And of course, the tech sector continues to move at breakneck pace and many leaders get

[00:21:09] distracted by shiny new technologies like AI that we've all mentioned, that we've already mentioned. And when chasing stuff like this, they move fast and break things and often lose sight of some of the important things.

[00:21:21] So how can companies ensure that they maintain that focus on diversity and inclusion amidst this rapid technological advancements and market pressures that everyone's going against at the moment? Yeah, again, it is for sure, it's breakneck pace. I think we all experience that.

[00:21:40] You know, we've got our global blueprint for diversity and belonging and we produce this every year serving about 2,600 clients. And the recent one had some brilliant insights in this. It showed talent retention, talent attraction and wellbeing as key drivers for their focus

[00:21:59] in this area. And that despite the narrative on DEI pushback, that they are increasing their spend so that from our perspective on this in the future work agenda is that we can have those talent shortages, which we need to ensure that we need to be able to

[00:22:16] increase access. So very few people want to work in homogenous teams. And if you have a teenager, you know they would be completely allergic to this. I don't know, Caroline, what your perspective on this is.

[00:22:29] Yeah, we have our HQ in Dublin is situated beside the Technological University in Dublin. We've made a partnership with them to part of that partnership is creating a number of courses together on ML, on cybersecurity, entrepreneurial leadership.

[00:22:46] We're very conscious we offered those courses internally to our teams, but we're very conscious about reaching out to diverse groups to make sure there's diverse groups attending those opportunities for further education as well.

[00:23:00] Other things that I've seen us do which have been really impactful, one thing that we tried to do as well is reverse mentoring for leadership. I think like, you know, even the most well-intentioned maybe men sometimes come up to me

[00:23:14] and say, like, why do we need to have a group for Women Workday? Because we are a real diverse organisation and we really care about that. But, you know, unless you're in that group, you know, you're not seeing all the things

[00:23:28] that happen to women in the tech industry. I'm exec sponsor for Black at Workday in Dublin as well. And for me, like that's opened my eyes. Like I would say like I had blinkers on until I understood what our black colleagues also

[00:23:41] go through. So I think, you know, reverse mentoring is a way for leadership to be reverse mentored by somebody different than themselves and to learn more about what it's like to be in that person's shoes. That's a really good way for us all to learn too.

[00:23:57] I see as well in the industry, like we're really moving to skill based hiring as well. So we all know there's a war on talent. We're going to have to think differently about how we hire people.

[00:24:09] We're going to have to move away from the traditional way of hiring folks by their degrees. There is this concept of quiet hiring where we're not going to be able to hire all the people we need to do the jobs.

[00:24:22] We need to re-skill the folks that we have. And first of all, we need to understand the skills that we do have in the organization. And then we need to put programs in place to upskill the people we have already.

[00:24:32] So I think all of these initiatives between skill based hiring, reverse mentoring, making sure that you have a diverse set of people attending your own trainings, all of these things are enabling us to move at breakneck pace, but make sure that we're doing it in a

[00:24:49] diverse way as well. And as we all look to the future, and I appreciate this is a huge, huge question that we could dedicate an entire podcast series to, and maybe we should.

[00:24:58] But what are the key actions that you think the tech industry must start taking to support this next generation of female innovators? Oh Neil, I am like so excited about this. Like this is what I said when I was talking at Code Plus recently. Like get ready.

[00:25:14] Like I don't know if you've met the next generation of female innovators yet, but for the last couple of events I've been on just this year, like the group of women in the next generation that I'm meeting, they are smart. They're super confident.

[00:25:29] They are super curious and they can speak up for themselves and they have amazing ideas. Like honestly, I am so impressed with the confidence and eloquence of the next generation. I just say to companies, get ready to harness their energy because they're coming and they're super impressive.

[00:25:49] I think, and I love how you put that, Karen, and I can hear the giggles in all of us when you say that. But what's really important, Dulce, is that these organisations are really

[00:26:02] waking up to ensure that a bit of what we discussed today, that we're putting in the support programmes and initiative. And that's really to support the next generation of females because they will pay it forward.

[00:26:15] So for me, it's all about develop, cultivate and then it's the bit where Karen and I stand back and watch them innovate for our future. We're watching our next leaders in action. I always say that when you're at the school gate and you're leaving your daughter or

[00:26:35] your granddaughter or your niece to go into the classroom on any particular day, just look over your shoulder, a little bit of a smirk on your face and you literally go, go get a girl. Inspiring, a perfect moment to end on.

[00:26:49] But before I do let you go, there is also obviously a real pressure on us all to be in a state of continuous learning now. A lot of people are struggling to keep up with that, break that pace. But where or how do you self-educate?

[00:27:02] Any tips you can share there? Because it is getting increasingly difficult to keep on top of so many different tech trends right now. Yeah, it's a great question and it's one a student just asked me recently when I was

[00:27:13] speaking at that event is that they were worried that they'd go to college and then how would they keep up after that? And I was kind of reflecting on how I've done that in the been like 30 years now as an

[00:27:24] engineer. One thing I've done is I've gone to college three times. So I do love to learn. I really enjoy it. I feel when you, after you leave college, I really feel those next three to four years

[00:27:37] are crucially important, that you need to be looking for a job that's going to help you get the best at your craft. You need to be working with people who are going to invest time with you to help you be the best at your craft.

[00:27:49] And I was lucky over the years to have incredible male mentors as well, who really taught me how to be the best coder. And I work with some of those today as well. I'm always constantly talking to them and thanking them for the time they invested

[00:28:04] with me. In my career as well. I worked as a contractor for a number of years in the Netherlands and that taught me how to onboard quickly onto a software project. I worked in many different industries and many different companies in a very condensed

[00:28:18] amount of time, even in the last two years with the rise of chat GPT, the amount of information we need to consume about AI and ML has meant like I'm doing online courses as well in AI and ML, continually try to learn more about the topic.

[00:28:35] I'm part of an amazing group of women called the 30% Club for Female Leaders in Technology and the 30% Club is a global organization that tries to get boards made up of 30% women.

[00:28:46] And so that's been terrific for me to have a group of women that we meet, we talk about books, we talk about our own leadership journey. And I think it all comes down to like really getting comfortable being uncomfortable. Like that's when you're learning.

[00:29:03] And I like to quote one of my favorite career coaches, if I can, and you may have heard about him. You may know his name. His name is David Bowie. David Bowie, if you look him up on YouTube, does talk about how he loved to push himself

[00:29:20] into the unknown and how he felt like that was when he was learning. And the little quote I'll read out from David Bowie says, he says, always go a little further into the water than you feel you're capable of being in.

[00:29:32] Go a little bit out of your depth. And when you don't feel that your feet are quite touching the bottom, you're just about in the right place to do something exciting. So that's all I listened to David Bowie, that great career coach. Absolutely love that.

[00:29:47] What a great quote. So true. Hey Claire, anything you'd like to leave everyone listening with? Yeah, I'm a bit old so I consider myself a serial learner. An old boss once said to me, Claire Hickey, you're dangerous when you're bored.

[00:30:02] And he was right and he kind of stayed with me. So a bit like Caroline, I've also been in college three times. One in particular was way back. I did a double degree in my business studies and computer studies, four years, four

[00:30:18] nights a week. That's while I worked during the day. And I actually had a six year old at the time. Yeah, love learning. But what I also do is I listen to podcasts. Now, can I just say this? I've got two dogs.

[00:30:31] So a lot of my learning happens while I'm beating the streets, trying to get my steps in. So I take that opportunity to learn, as I'm literally walking the dogs around. But I listen to podcasts such as your own, the tech talks here.

[00:30:44] And I listen to webinars and I always have got an audible book going as well. And I do love to learn from others as well. And again, I talk a lot about paying it forward, but that's really important.

[00:30:55] So I'm also part of an external community of women called the T200. And this group is really dedicated to advancing women as leadership in technology and really offering that personal and professional growth and learning and

[00:31:10] empowering each other and really lifting each other up and learning from each other. And then I don't leave it alone there. I'm actually kind of like moving into my own personal life. I don't sit still either, funnily enough.

[00:31:21] And I did share with you on the last podcast, I started sea swimming. And if you remember that story, I couldn't swim until the day a wave took me out. And I decided, OK, you better learn this, Carys, in order to survive.

[00:31:34] So I did take my sea swimming classes to become an all year round swimmer. I was down there this morning sharing that with Caroline earlier. And more recently, I've taken on the big one. So back in November, I decided let's head for the golf course.

[00:31:50] So now learning how to play golf also, another subject for another day. And I think next I'm thinking about this, somebody mentioned pickleball lately. So I might head into that one. And so for me, you know, curiosity and learning is really in my DNA.

[00:32:07] And my North Star is actually from my 90 year old mother. Trust me, she can sit still either. I absolutely love it. I'm exhausted almost just listening to it. I feel quite inadequate how much you do. And we will have people listening in something like 165 countries.

[00:32:26] And if I close my eyes for a moment, I can almost envision those lightbulb moments going off around the world. That's the power of conversations like this. So for anyone that's passively listening to this conversation today, maybe they want to proactively make a difference.

[00:32:39] Maybe they want to reach out to both of you and help build that better world. Well, it was the best place for people listening to find out more details on work day and maybe even connect with you or your team.

[00:32:51] I think you need to get there as mum on the. And I think I'm on LinkedIn, that's probably the best place to get me. So it's Caroline minus O minus Riley. Yeah, and I'm the same.

[00:33:06] You'll find the care without the eye, as I always say in the HICK IE and you know, both of us really happy. If anyone wants to reach out for a chat and learn more, talk to us. And again, paying it forward.

[00:33:19] And then when the work day perspective, everything you need is on workday.com. Well, we covered so much in our conversation today from why an employee first mindset is integral to providing solutions based on feedback and creating an inclusive workplace for all, but also why the tech industry

[00:33:36] needs to discuss things like menopause at work to improve retention and attraction of midlife workers and also the value industry experience offerings for all genders to attract more female participation in tech. Thank you to both of you for coming up today. Thank you so much.

[00:33:54] So a big thank you to today's guests for an inspiring conversation on empowering the next generation of women in tech and their insights into fostering an inclusive culture through an employee first mindset, mentoring programs and addressing challenges like menopause in the workplace are invaluable.

[00:34:13] And for anybody listening that's eager to learn more about workdays, innovative approach to diversity and inclusion, please reach out to Claire and Caroline. I know they'd love to hear from you. And equally, if you want to share the great work that you're doing on this front,

[00:34:28] I created this platform so you can share your voice, too. So please email me tech blog writer at Outlook.com, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram just at Neil C Hughes. Nice and easy to get a hold of. But that's it for today.

[00:34:40] So thank you to Claire and Caroline for shining a light on this important matter today in the tech industry. And an even bigger thank you to each and every one of you for listening. Hopefully you'll join me again tomorrow. But until next time, don't be a stranger.