2934: Can Technology Revolutionize Traditional Laundry Services?

[00:00:00] How often do you find yourself dreading laundry day? Maybe you work full time, maybe you're caring for your parents, children and just about everyone seems to be pulling at you and you're spreading yourself thinly.

[00:00:14] Well today I'm going to be joined by Ajay Prakash, CEO and co-founder of a company called Rinse to explore how this company is transforming the dreaded traditional laundry and dry cleaning industry through innovative technology.

[00:00:31] And Rinse has not only simplified a task that many find burdensome, after all life's too short to be doing the washing and ironing right? But they've also provided a lifeline to local laundromats struggling in this ever-evolving market.

[00:00:46] So I want to dive into Rinse's origin story, their unique business model and how they're using technology to streamline operations well or so, and I think this is the most important part of today's podcast, they also treat their workers with the respect that they deserve.

[00:01:03] So buckle up and hold on tight as I beam your ears all the way to the US where we'll find out more about this story. So a massive warm welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:01:18] Ajay Prakash Yeah well thanks for having me. My name is Ajay Prakash. I am the co-founder and CEO of Rinse. Rinse is building the first national brand in laundry and dry cleaning. We started in 2013 so I've been doing this for 11 years.

[00:01:34] We started in three zip codes in San Francisco and we're currently in 10 major markets across the country with plans for national expansion as we work to become a household name in the US. Steven McLaughlin Fantastic.

[00:01:44] And one of the things I always try and do on this podcast is find a little bit more about the origin story of my guests. So can you share the journey that led to the inception?

[00:01:54] What were some of the key obstacles you might have come across over that journey and how you overcome them to create this mobile first solution for what's ultimately a traditional service isn't it? Ajay Prakash Yeah no absolutely.

[00:02:08] Well I mean the journey to get started was 11 years ago and there were certainly obstacles along the way and there's still obstacles today. I think the journey of an entrepreneur is a hard one but in early 2013 I was looking to start a company.

[00:02:23] I had just come out of a startup. I'd been doing it for a few years and I had narrowed it on a few trends that got me really excited. So one was the idea of bringing technology to an old school industry and the other was

[00:02:34] the idea of removing friction from existing consumer experiences. And like you said it's a very traditional service. It's a very universal service, universal need. And I hadn't really thought about that idea that got me excited but my co-founder James

[00:02:47] who is one of my best friends from college, I've now known him for 25 years. He actually came to me with the idea of doing something in dry cleaning and laundry and it was really interesting because that fit the trends I was looking at.

[00:02:59] I view James as a potential co-founder but he's actually you know he grew up in health care but most interesting is that he actually for you know actually grew up in dry cleaning. His parents are dry cleaners. He'd been working in their shop since he was a kid.

[00:03:13] He had an intimate knowledge of the supply side. So we thought, we both got really excited about the idea and we thought the best thing we could do is run a test. And so this was in early 2013, January, February.

[00:03:23] We went out, we signed up 11 of our friends, we picked up their clothes, we cleaned them at James' parents shop and we delivered them back and all of them were really excited and they're like oh that's great when are you coming back?

[00:03:33] And you know we hadn't thought that far ahead but we knew there was something there. We could tell we were striking a chord. So then we spent time talking to as many people as we could.

[00:03:42] Really a need finding exercise just asking them about the last time they did laundry or the last time they did dry cleaning. And what we heard in those conversations is the same thing we've heard you know for the last 11 years as we've been building Reds.

[00:03:54] It's just that there's not one point of friction in the experience. There's just a lot of little points of friction. We call it death by a thousand cuts and if you know as an example you think about dry cleaning, you don't know who a good dry cleaner is.

[00:04:06] You just go to the nearest one so you're held hostage to proximity. You know it's not a trusted brand. It's typically a local mom and pop and so you can't really assess quality until after you get your clothes back.

[00:04:18] They're typically open nine to five you know their working hours right but it's also when you're working and so it's very inconvenient to get to a dry cleaner. And then there's limited technology, limited customer service, limited transparency. Most of them don't use eco-friendly solvents.

[00:04:33] There's a lot of these pain points and we looked at that. We said hey can we actually, can we systematically remove all of that friction and create this seamless experience from start to finish?

[00:04:43] And so that was the initial part of the journey and you know certainly as we started building there were plenty of obstacles along the way whether it was other competition, whether it was just the traditional competition of a washer dryer or going to the local dry cleaner.

[00:04:59] And at that time actually it was really interesting because it was 2013 and this is when Uber and Lyft were becoming really popular and there were a lot of on-demand startups. And so we also had a lot of smart people, investors, other founders telling us that

[00:05:13] we had to be on demand. And it was interesting because when we had gone through those conversations with the people we were doing need finding with, our test customers, nobody ever indicated that they were in a hurry for laundry or dry cleaning.

[00:05:27] It was much more the way we thought about it was that Uber was solving this acute pain point where if you need a ride you need it right away. But we were solving more of a chronic pain point. So on-demand didn't feel like the right answer.

[00:05:39] We actually ended up doing a service that was only in the evening 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. and when we started we only offered two days a week of service.

[00:05:46] And I think the way to overcome the obstacles, if you use that as an example, is to be intentional and methodical focusing on what you're trying to accomplish but making decisions based on the data in front of you and not based on emotion.

[00:05:59] And that was really important early on because when things were stressful and emotional or really smart people who we really respected were telling us we were doing it the wrong way, it was important to be able to fall back on our work and our thinking and our judgment

[00:06:12] based on the data we were seeing. Another thing that stands out about what you're doing here is how you've been pivotal in supporting local laundromats. So can you elaborate on how your business model contributes to the sustainability of

[00:06:25] the small businesses and also the impact that it's had on some of the communities that you serve? Because we could talk about the technology and stuff a minute ago, but that service to the communities, that seems to be at the real heart of this. Absolutely.

[00:06:40] That's core to what we've been building. And as we thought about building Rinse, it wasn't only looking at the consumer and removing the friction and providing one solution for everything in their closet, but it was also

[00:06:52] on the cleaning side, looking at cleaning partners and trying to help them. And generally speaking, things aren't easy for local laundromats and dry cleaners. Historically, the only way they've been able to capture business has been through foot

[00:07:06] traffic, which means they have to locate themselves in areas that are typically high rent. And what's happened over time is that customer demand and foot traffic has decreased. Customers are now demanding convenience of pickup and delivery. And so volume has gone down, but rent hasn't changed.

[00:07:22] Rent has probably gone up in a lot of these cities. And so it's led a lot of cleaners, local cleaners to shut down and certainly COVID exacerbated that. But I think for us when we started, we knew it was going to be very important to work

[00:07:32] with local cleaners from the beginning. Certainly we come from a point of pride in the industry, given James grew up in the industry. His parents are cleaners, his aunts and uncles are cleaners.

[00:07:42] And so for us, we thought, hey, let's find the best cleaners and let them do what they do best, which is clean the clothes. And so for us, that's what we do. We have a pretty thorough vetting process.

[00:07:52] We find the best cleaners, we give them technology, we train them on the rinse way, and then we send them a predictable steady stream of volume to help them grow. And it's very helpful for them because first and foremost, they all have underutilized capacity.

[00:08:06] And so what we do is we fill the underutilized capacity, which effectively gives them operational leverage and falls to the bottom line because they already have the machines and they already have the staff working.

[00:08:15] And then what we do is we work with them as long as they continue to prove their performance and deliver a high quality clean. We work with them to add more shifts in a given day. We work with them to add more days in a week.

[00:08:28] And so we get to this point of steady, predictable stream of revenue. On average, our partners actually see around a 20% revenue increase in their first year. And then it goes up from there as long as they continue to perform at a high level.

[00:08:40] And it's really helpful for them because if you think about how their business has been historically, think about the pain points I just talked about in dry cleaning. Demand is really spiky because as consumers, we're working during the week.

[00:08:53] And so what you see in dry cleaning is a big spike on Monday morning. People just get their clothes there and then they leave. And then the rest of the week is super quiet.

[00:09:01] And so if you're operating a dry cleaner, it's very hard to staff for that because you have unpredictable hours. And then it's really hard to grow because also not only is it hard to staff and get

[00:09:13] more people to take on more shifts when it's unpredictable volume, but it's also hard to find customers because foot traffic doesn't work as well anymore. And these cleaners typically aren't going to be great at marketing and understanding the various forms of customer acquisition.

[00:09:26] So for us, we work with them and we let them do what they do best, which is clean the clothes and we take care of everything else. And for us, the impact has been really positive.

[00:09:35] We've had partners tell us they would have shut down if it wasn't for rinse, which is a great feeling. Certainly, the impact on helping them grow their business is what we're looking for. And that has positive ripple effects in the community with the most obvious one being

[00:09:48] job creation. So that's a core part of how we've built rinse. And over the last few years, I mean, we've mentioned Uber and Lyft, et cetera. But in recent years, I think the on-demand and gig economy has been at a few headlines

[00:10:02] or negative headlines about how some of the workers are treated. The reason I bring this up is this is something else that I was reading about you before you came on the podcast with this commitment to treating your valet team members as W2 employees.

[00:10:15] And for anybody listening outside of the US, can you just explain what that means? And also, how you see this influencing the broader gig economy, particularly in terms of workers' rights and benefits? Because a lot of those startups lost sight of that in the early days, didn't they?

[00:10:33] Absolutely. So yeah, that was a big discussion point and a big decision we made early on. So from a general perspective, W2 employees are actual employees of the company and they have a lot of protections that come with that.

[00:10:46] Uber and Lyft and others have chosen to make their drivers what are referred to as 1099 independent contractors. So from the letter of the law, you can't really tell them what to do. They have to go find their own business.

[00:10:59] And so there's a bit of an arm's length from the company. And so they don't have protections that a typical employee would have. For my perspective, we've W2'd our valets since the beginning. And it's hard to say how that will ultimately impact the broader gig economy.

[00:11:15] I think our influence ultimately probably depends on how successful we are as a company. But for us, it's really about from the beginning, just doing the right thing. All of our valets, we're telling them where to go. We're putting them in a rinse uniform. We're training them.

[00:11:30] We want them to represent the brand. It's interesting as a consumer, if you have a totally normal rinse experience, the only person you should ever see is the valet. And so it was important for us to have them be a representative of the brand.

[00:11:43] But think about W2 versus 1099. W2 is way better for the valet. It's way better. They get paid sick leave. They get benefits of all the federal, state, and local employee protections that employees get.

[00:11:56] Taxes are lower for them because rinse has to cover part of the taxes because they're employees. They rely on workers' compensation protections if they get hurt on the job. You don't get that as a 1099.

[00:12:06] I mean, it's pretty expensive for the company, but it's really helpful for the individual if they say they get into a car accident or something happens. We reimburse them for mileage based on IRS regulations.

[00:12:17] That helps them, especially when you think about the cost of maintaining the car or filling gas. And then all rinse valets, which this may be unique to rinse, but they're eligible to contribute to a 401k and receive some matching after 12 months of service.

[00:12:32] For us, the interesting thing over the last 11 years, we've actually found that valets tend to be very good candidates for roles on the team, operational roles. In fact, a few of our city operations managers that oversee our markets started as valets and have grown in the company.

[00:12:47] And so for us, there's no question that W2ing the valets is the right answer. Certainly it costs more and it creates a significant amount of administrative overhead, but it's absolutely worth it. It's the right thing to do. They're an important representative of the brand.

[00:13:01] And ultimately, I think if the valets are happy and treated well, and we invest in training them and we take care of them and we can help them build a community, it ultimately is better for the customer. It's better for rinse.

[00:13:11] So for us, I mean, it's been a no brainer from the beginning and I think it's paid dividends. And I want to focus on the problems that you're solving and the human element of everything that you're doing at rinse.

[00:13:22] But obviously this is a tech podcast and technology makes rinse as service as possible too. Can you tell me a bit more about the technologies that have made this possible and also been crucial in enhancing the efficiency and the customer experience of your services? Absolutely.

[00:13:39] Technology is core to everything we're doing. It's the backbone to what we're building. I would say we're the most digitally advanced company in the industry. It's very important to note that in what we're doing, laundry and dry cleaning, the barriers to entry are low.

[00:13:55] Anybody can get started, but the barriers to scale are very high. And that's because there's significant operational complexity that comes with scale, whether it's on the cleaning side, whether it's on the delivery side. And technology is the backbone, the reason we've been able to do that.

[00:14:12] The way we think of technology at rinse is it's a bit of an iceberg in the sense that most people only really see the customer facing technology. And certainly we have plenty of that, whether it's through the website, the mobile app.

[00:14:25] We use SMS a lot and just technology underlying SMS is complicated. But really the core of our technology is the stuff that you don't see below the surface. And that's really the technology that supports all of the operations, all of the moving pieces.

[00:14:41] From a consumer standpoint, all we want you to do is you schedule a pickup, we show up, we take your clothes, we'll do a bunch of stuff with it, clean it, we bring it back, you have your clothes.

[00:14:52] So you don't need to have a ton of technology for that. Obviously we have a very seamless mobile app, seamless website. We try to make that a great experience for the user. But in the background, in order to make sure that we are delivering on time every time,

[00:15:07] you get the right clothes to the right people, we're taking care of your garments, we're managing multiple service types. There's a significant amount of technology to put all the pieces of the puzzle together.

[00:15:18] So on the valet side or the delivery side, we have over the years developed a very sophisticated tool for automated route creation. It optimizes for whether you're a new customer, whether it's a new valet, depending on traffic, depending on what part of town you're delivering.

[00:15:34] It'll optimize the right amount of stops and take into account things like time preferences and pickups versus delivery. So it's very sophisticated, we've built it over the years, it continues to get better.

[00:15:47] We have a very robust mobile app for our valets that really makes it simple for them to do a pretty hard job. They're trying to deliver and pick up clothes for a bunch of customers in a tight timeframe.

[00:16:00] Like I said, we deliver between 8 p.m. and 10 p.m. And so the valet app has made it a much more efficient job and takes a lot of the thinking, a lot of the legwork out, whether it's through navigation or texting the customer, all this stuff is automated.

[00:16:12] We have a lot of technology for cleaning partners. Cleaning partners have tools for cleaning quality, for inventory quality, or inventory control. We put heat seal labels on items to track inventory. We keep track of every brand, every item we've cleaned.

[00:16:26] We have a very robust database with many millions of garments and that's all this tracked through technology. So for us, technology is core to what we're doing. It's the backbone of what we're building.

[00:16:38] And I think the beauty of it is that as we continue to scale and we continue to grow, whether it's the number of customers at one market or it's however many more markets we take on, the opportunities for technology to have an impact grow with it.

[00:16:53] And so for us, there's this mantra of continuous improvement, always sort of looking at where can we apply technology. We always say people, process, and technology. And certainly we want to look at technology as a way to continue to scale and move things forward.

[00:17:09] And so it's a very important piece of the puzzle. And I would imagine that it's a very competitive industry. So what would you say makes Rinse a little bit different from other players in the market?

[00:17:19] And are there any unique challenges that you've had to face in this niche or things that you're looking at addressing on the horizon? Anything you can share around that? Yeah, I mean, it's a very interesting space because as we've said, it's a universal service, it's a universal need.

[00:17:36] And yet there are no national brands. Most of the competition is local. It's very fragmented. We sometimes just sort of think of the competition as the washer dryer on the laundry side, or it's the local cleaner on the dry cleaner side.

[00:17:49] And I think the biggest challenge is that when you look at what we're doing, there's no silver bullet that creates that 10x better experience. It's really about removing all those little points of friction I mentioned earlier and

[00:18:01] about creating this consistent high quality experience that you have to repeat day in and day out. Whereas seven days a week service, you have to re-earn those stripes every day. And so I think the way we've differentiated ourselves has really been through a very methodical,

[00:18:21] very intentional approach to building Rinse and managing that operational complexity. We call it internally the Rinse operating system, but it's really the combination of several critical factors that uniquely position us to transform this industry. First and foremost, I'd say service-based businesses are won and lost through execution

[00:18:40] and execution starts and ends with the team. And I feel very confident we have the best team in the industry. Not only have me and my co-founders, James and Sam, been at Rinse since 2013, but if you

[00:18:51] look at our top 10 senior leaders, we all have a combined total of over 70 plus years of experience at Rinse. So there's a lot of institutional knowledge in terms of the mistakes we've made, the challenges we've overcome, the path we've been on, that continuous improvement that

[00:19:06] helps put us in a position to continue to scale this in the right way. Certainly as part of that, operational excellence is key and it goes back to managing the operational complexity.

[00:19:15] And as I mentioned, as we scale, the way to do that is to do that through a combination of people, process, technology. We're very analytically rigorous. We have a deep understanding of the consumer needs. We've already talked a bit about technology.

[00:19:29] I think that's core to what we're doing. And then the other piece of this is we've been building a brand, a trusted brand with National Appeal and there are no brands in this space.

[00:19:37] And so if you put all of those pieces together, that's the way to differentiate in order to build a durable brand that really takes hold and differentiates. We have to be relentless. We have to be persistent. We have to be consistent with all of that.

[00:19:50] It doesn't happen overnight and I can tell you that because it's 11 years in, but it's something that you have to build methodically day by day, brick by brick. And that's what we've been doing. We're in a position where we're the market leader.

[00:20:02] As I mentioned, we're in 10 major markets. We're in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Washington DC, Chicago, Boston, New York, New Jersey, Seattle, Austin and Dallas and certainly have plans for national expansion and ultimately global expansion.

[00:20:17] And as you said there, an 11 year overnight success story working across so many different states across the US, but you're all about scale and you're all about improving. I can tell the passion in everything that you're talking about here.

[00:20:31] So I've got to ask is as a CEO, what strategies do you employ to foster things like innovation within your team to encourage further growth? And how do you encourage your employees to also bring forward new ideas that might align with your mission at Rins too?

[00:20:48] You know, it's a really important thing to put your employees in a position to bring ideas forward, to empower them. For me, that starts and ends with psychological safety on the team.

[00:21:01] I like to say that the two main jobs of the CEO are to focus on cash and culture, make sure you have enough cash in the bank to keep going and then make sure the culture is strong so the team can scale and grow.

[00:21:13] And so since the beginning, I've been very focused on building a culture of psychological safety and there are various components of it. You have to make sure you hire the right people as part of that. You know, James and I do every final round interview.

[00:21:28] So we see everyone who comes in, whether they're an hourly worker on the ground or a salaried worker. We've built a culture of transparency and open communication. I'm very transparent and so I think others can feel comfortable being transparent. We make it okay to make mistakes, right?

[00:21:46] Failure is okay as long as we learn from it. I say often internally, it's just the cost of education. We do a good job hiring the right people but we also make sure everyone assumes positive

[00:21:56] intent because some days you might be stressed out or busy and move a little fast or say something doesn't land well. But if you assume positive intent, you're communicating the context of what you're working on and you're empowering people to make their voice heard.

[00:22:12] Those are core underlying foundational pieces to encourage your employees to bring forward new ideas. And then either a tactical ways, you can have employees share ideas whether it's through we use Slack and people communicate through Slack channels designed for it or open forums

[00:22:26] or meetings or quarterly company wide surveys or every six months people do self-assessments where they can share feedback and more. But it's really about encouraging a culture of feedback, a culture of innovation, a culture of empowerment where there's no egos in the room.

[00:22:42] Ideas can come from anywhere as long as it's a good idea. And this goes back to when I said about making decisions based on the data in front of you being intentional, objective, unemotional.

[00:22:50] As long as it's a good idea, we should do it and it doesn't matter where it comes from. Absolutely love that. Looking ahead, what's your grand vision for the future of Rents? Are there any new markets, additional services or anything that you can share today?

[00:23:06] A teaser, I appreciate you probably can't share too much, but is there anything you can share about that road ahead? Well, I mean, ultimately the vision for Rents has been the same. It's the same today as it was when we started. It's to become a household name, right?

[00:23:20] To be the dominant national brand and ultimately the international brand. And as I mentioned, we're in 10 major markets across the US and if you know the US well, there are so many more markets for us to enter.

[00:23:31] And so our goal is to be nationwide and certainly we are looking at expansion to new markets soon and on a continuous basis. We do have global ambitions as well. I think there's competition around the world that has sort of validated that there's something here.

[00:23:47] I've had many founders in different countries doing something similar to reach out to me. And so I know there's a universal need and we plan to capture it. But in addition to geographic expansion, we're also growing what we call our B2B business

[00:24:00] where not just cleaning for the end consumer, but cleaning for gyms and spas and cafes and other types of companies. And we have a handful of national brands that we're working with. One of the core value propositions there is that we can work with one, the company can

[00:24:14] work with one point of contact to clean many locations, which hasn't been an option in the past. And if I think even longer term, I did mention we've built a culture of data. We have longer term visions. We track every item we've ever cleaned, dry cleaned.

[00:24:29] We have the brand data. We know when you wore it, what you wore it with. And so we have longer term visions to influence the entire lifecycle of clothing care from acquiring clothes to retiring clothes. And so there's a lot of exciting potential here.

[00:24:41] Obviously, the main focus right now though is the core focus of laundry and dry cleaning and becoming a household name and really having national coverage across the whole US. And I can't thank you enough for coming on here and sharing your story and everything

[00:24:56] that's happened at Rinse and where you're heading with it. But I want to ask you to look back at your career now for a few moments. We talked about that 10, 11 year overnight success story, but none of us are able to

[00:25:07] achieve any degree of success without a little help along the way. So is there a particular person that you're grateful towards? Maybe they saw something in you, invested a bit of time in you or just helped you get

[00:25:17] you where you are today that we can give a little shout out and a little thank you to them. Absolutely. You know, there's the old adage in parenting is that it takes a village. And I think that's very applicable on the entrepreneurial journey.

[00:25:31] And so I probably can't call out just one person, but it's certainly taken a village and a lot of support to get me here. You know, a handful of core parts of that journey. My wife first and foremost has been very supportive through this journey.

[00:25:45] We got married shortly after starting Rinse and we built our family. We have three young daughters and we've done that while building Rinse. So without her support, the journey would be absolutely impossible. My co-founders, James and Sam, I mentioned they've been at Rinse since 2013.

[00:25:59] So, you know, building Rinse from the ground up with people next to you that you trust is a very important piece of it. And so, you know, without them, the journey certainly would have been very different. My family deserves a lot of credit.

[00:26:13] I have two older brothers that have always supported me and they were supportive when we started Rinse. Most importantly, my parents, you know, I could probably talk for the whole podcast about the influence they've had on me and how important their support was for me to embark

[00:26:25] on this journey. One thing I'll note specifically is that the journey of the entrepreneur is really hard. And one of the, I talk to a lot of people who are starting, I teach a class on startups

[00:26:36] and talk about this, but probably the most important thing you can do on the journey is manage your psyche because it is a hard path. And I credit my parents for teaching me how to be resilient, how to get through challenges thrown at me.

[00:26:49] My mom refers to it, she, when I was growing up, she referred to it as bounce back ability. But the idea that when challenges come your way, you know, you get through them. And so I'm certainly very appreciative of everything they've done.

[00:27:01] And then there are countless mentors along the way, formal or informal, who helped me nuggets of wisdom, you know, probably a line I read in a book or something I heard on a

[00:27:10] podcast that have helped so too many to name, but I will say it really does take a village and I'm very appreciative of all the guidance I've gotten along the way. I love that beautiful answer.

[00:27:21] And for anyone listening anywhere in the US in particular, thinking of checking out RINSE, understanding how it works and the kind of services that you offer, what's the best starting point for everything?

[00:27:32] And equally, if we have any founders listening anywhere in the world that would like to talk with you about anything, what's the best way of getting in touch with you or your team there? Yeah, absolutely.

[00:27:41] I mean, the main as a customer, if you're exploring or interested, the main thing is you can sign up for the service or learn more at RINSE.com or on our mobile app.

[00:27:51] And you can also follow the company on social media if you look for the at RINSE handle or RINSE Inc. on various platforms. And if anyone wants to get in touch with me, you can find me on LinkedIn, happy to connect

[00:28:01] and always happy to share any lessons I've learned if it's helpful for you. So yeah, feel free to connect. Well, I'll have links to both of those so people can find you nice and easily.

[00:28:13] And I always say at the end of every episode, technology works best when it brings people together. You're the epitome of that, Ryan. I love how you've brought flexibility and convenience to one of the most burdensome chores in our daily life.

[00:28:25] But it's this tech forward approach to one of the oldest industries that has helped laundromats keep their doors open. And also this strong belief of yours that gig economy workers deserve the same opportunities as employees and should be treated as such.

[00:28:39] And it's not just a belief, you've actually put your money where your mouth is at, making that your team members W2 employees incredibly inspiring. I hope others follow in your footsteps, but more than anything, thank you for sharing your inspiring story to them. Thanks for having me.

[00:28:54] I really appreciate it. I think it's inspiring to see how Rinse is reshaping the landscape of laundry services with this tech forward approach that also values both efficiency and human dignity. Whether that be strengthening local businesses to setting new standards in employee treatment

[00:29:11] in the gig economy, Rinse is paving the way for a more sustainable and worker friendly service industry. But what lies ahead for Rinse as they become a household name and begin to expand globally? How will they continue to innovate in a space that impacts almost every household?

[00:29:29] I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one. And if, and obviously Rinse are only serving the US at the moment, if we've got any other similar services out there that are serving another continent, I'd love to hear from you and hear your thoughts, your experiences.

[00:29:43] So email me, techblogwriteratoutlook.com, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram at Neil C Hughes. Let's keep this conversation going where every day we'll rinse, wash and repeat. But tomorrow I've got another guest. So thank you for listening as always. And until next time, don't be a stranger.