2963: How is AI Transforming Retail and Loyalty Programs?

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_01]: How can technology revolutionize the way we shot and engage with brands?

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, today I'm thrilled to welcome Len Cabello, CTO and Co-founder of a company called Engage

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_01]: People onto the podcast. And they're at the forefront of loyalty technology.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And they're enabling consumers to pay with points directly at checkout rather than cash.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_01]: But what tangible benefits does that bring to retail is well, Len's expertise lies in integrating

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_01]: innovative solutions that enhance the retail experience through, yes you guessed it, AI,

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_01]: but AI and Loyalty Programs. And in our conversation today we're going to explore how AI is

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_01]: transforming retail decision-making, the impact of paying with points on consumer behavior,

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: what kind of measurable impact are we talking here? And also, I want to explore some

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: of the future trends that are shaping customer experiences. And try and identify what exactly

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_01]: does this mean for retailers and consumers alike. Producing daily tech episodes isn't as easy

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_01]: as I might make it look sometimes, and I couldn't do it without the help of our general sponsor.

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[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But now let's get today's guest on Bookleup and hold on tight as I be your ears all the

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_01]: way to Toronto in Canada where we're going to uncover these insights with what have the

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: industry's leading innovators. So a massive wall welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me, my name is Len Cavallo and CTO and one of the co-founders at engage

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: people. We build loyalty technology for a number of companies primarily financial institutions.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So anything on the back end that's white label powering loyalty programs today are part

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: of the services that engage offers. We've got a few pieces of technology out in the market

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: that are really shaping the loyalty space. So we are one of the companies in the only network

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: powering with points globally today. So my day to day job as the CTO and engage is really

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: to guide implementation and product development from the organization and just strategize

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: with the team here internally on our forward looking technology posture.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Well thank you so much for joining me today. One of the reasons I invited you on here is there's

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_01]: hype that surrounds all things AI at the moment. I think a lot of business leaders think

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: you what what is this hype all about what problems are we solving, what business value are we

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: generating in what's the ROI on these projects and obviously you're hugely into loyalty tech.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'd like to try and bring this to life by asking you to set the scene today and ask you how

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_01]: you're seeing AI reshaping the retail landscape particularly in terms of enhancing things like

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: customer experience and safeguarding retail is financially. What are you saying?

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you use the perfect word there is enhancing. You know we see different technologies come

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: across our desk over the years whether it be blockchain now we're talking about AI in our industry

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: personalization was a very big term. I'll be a not a specific technology and there's a group of

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: people that thinks it will revolutionize everything and while they're not wrong I think they overshoot

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_00]: what the practical impacts are these technologies and I think AI is an incredible tool for

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_00]: practical implementation so in the retail space specifically there's a lot of manual work that

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: that's been done and although it's powered by computers there's people in the background making

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: decisions ultimately and we're building models for segments and chat bots and trying to make

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: intelligent decisions on personalization and what we offer to a consumer when we're interacting

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and AI in machine learning really gives the power to a lot of companies to I'll say punch above

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: their weight is to crunch a significant amount of data and get the results to be that much more accurate

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_00]: so it's really where I see AI in retail landscape is really playing the role of making companies

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot more efficient and a lot more precise in the decision making and how they work with customers.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd love to drill down into engage people's technology there and we mentioned the loyalty

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: tech so how are you allowing loyalty program members to pay points directly at the checkout

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and assuming once you've done that what kind of impact is this having on consumer behavior?

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So it started years ago when we looked at just the the construct of a loyalty program and really

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: taking a member you know the earn process is very clear and clean to a customer it's

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: their day-to-day transaction that's how they live their life you know you're earning

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_00]: really in living your life in the way you know you're tapping a card at a retail store

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_00]: you're booking some travel it's the things you would do day-to-day but the redemption process

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: always broke away from that so we had always seen and I don't think we were overly special on this

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: we just saw that for a customer to truly be engaged in a program for for true loyalty is

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: they're going to want to redeem for something at that point in time when they're interacting

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: with any of the brands that they've got affinity with or any loyalty to regardless of who

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: that brand is. In our world we started to see a large number of redemption going towards gift cards

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_00]: or vouchers depending where you are the world how they're referred to and what that was telling us

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: a consumer still wanted that choice they still wanted the ability to have you know the closest

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: thing to a fee of currency and a gift card in their wallet and they would choose one and how they

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: would use that and with that we thought how do we get into this checkout process how do we become

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_00]: part of that process when a consumer is making a decision to purchase something we can

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: communicate to them and let them know you know outside of your credit and your debit and money

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_00]: you have on hand there's another currency that's fully backed it's fully secure there's no

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_00]: volatility to then you can use that so we started to build a network and really think of the

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: network having two sides to it is we needed to bring on large loyalty programs who had a

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: significant member base that would create an appetite for the retailers to want to open up their

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: checkout experience and and the latter was the harder pieces as I'm sure you can appreciate

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Neil as going to some of the big brands in the world the Anazons and saying we want to get into

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: your checkout flow and outside of accepting the traditional credit cards that you would accept a

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_00]: checkout can you offer a consumer to pay with points and yeah we've been successful I'll be at

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: quite a bit of work and quite a bit of effort into this we've been successful to build that network

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm interested in how that rises expectations from consumers because there's an old

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_01]: quote at the last great experience what we have as consumers becomes the standard expectation

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: that we want to see everywhere so what are the key trends in retail technology that you think

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_01]: retailers should be taking advantage of to remain competitive in today's market and meet those

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: rising expectations to well what we're offering is definitely one of them it's giving that consumer

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_00]: choice especially in the current economic times you know as we went through the pandemic

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: there was a lot of uncertainty out there so really technology that we saw retailers taking advantage

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_00]: of was anything that made the consumer experience easier anything that built trust with them as well

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00]: so at the same time we're encouraging people to use technology more and more as part of their

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: everyday lives and as part of the purchases they're seeing a lot of fraud they're seeing a

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: count take over and quite a bit of really you know topics that would scare consumers so you know

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_00]: the other hand we're saying just be very careful what you share with everyone so a lot of the

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_00]: trends we're seeing is making that experience a lot easier for a customer whether it's a count on

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: file there's some some really cool companies out there today that are you know using one time

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: tokens to authenticate a customer and then they can pull information directly from the bank

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_00]: for the payment details you know I'm still a fan of anything that makes the consumer journey a lot

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_00]: easier or you know gives a consumer the ability to purchase something they may need so that

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: the buying out pay later technology out there I think was something great for consumers as well

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: so really pieces like that and then that on-me channel experience where if you do have you know

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_00]: both in store bricks and mortar and online presence communicating with that customer in a fully

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_00]: cohesive journey so that you really have a good understanding of who that consumer

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: or is and what they're looking for and making sure you're speaking to them at the time they want

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_01]: to make those purchases and I think it can be an incredibly confusing space with online stores

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: lot Amazon suddenly opening physical stores and physical stores trying to rival Amazon online

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: so how can retailers better blend the physical in digital worlds to create that cohesive and seamless

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: customer experience across all platforms anything you're seeing here and systems are ubiquitous and

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: well that's not something exciting for people to hear about there was a lot of companies out there

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: that had you know different systems running their online presence versus what they saw at store so

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_00]: it wasn't an elegant journey for the consumer and they could be online they could see something

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_00]: at a certain price or maybe they had access to certain who bonds or you know certain sales

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and then they'd get in store and that would be different and vice versa and really you know making

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: those systems connected and having that single view of a customer is he to that journey so

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_00]: a customer you know can have two things into their car online walk into the store and you know

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: someone behind the counter can still have that view of the customer which is such an incredible

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_00]: experience you know letting someone know where something may be in a bricks and mortar location

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: if they happen to research it online and then head into store and vice versa if I'm in store

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and I see something you know using my phone with this little technological device that's sitting beside

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_00]: all day long using that to take a picture scan a QR code and be able to come back and have

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: that sitting in my cart when I'm checking on any commerce properties is a pretty incredible experience so

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd say well it's not the most exciting piece of technology to offer customers I would I would say

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: that having your systems your back-end systems talk to each other and being connected is a tremendous value for the consumer

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and is that anything you can share around certain strategies that retail is more available to implement

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: to overcome some challenges like inflation competition especially with banks in the loyalty card space

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and law programs to additionally have an reputation for falling short on those customer expectations

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: front anything that any strategies you're seeing that will help retailers overcome those challenges

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah he with points has been a big piece in this world because it's really a piece of technology

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_00]: that's allowing a consumer to spend a little more than they could right now and building the

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: additional trust with the consumers well so you know you think about your your basket sizes

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: increasing with inflation day after day and now you have the ability to really take that transaction

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and buy it down either with the whole transaction or a piece of that transaction so where we see

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: this implemented we're seeing you know tremendous growth so the average basket size is increasing

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: 30 to 40 percent they're getting anywhere from two to three additional transactions from the consumer who's

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: got that ability to shop with an additional currency so I would say the the ability to take that currency

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and really use it anywhere you're looking to use it as a consumer is an incredible strategy

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's really going a long way to an hands consumer trust both between the loyalty scheme that's

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: ultimately giving them that currency whether it's a bank whether it's an airline a hotel or even a

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_01]: as well as a retailer having that partnership and um pure is has allowing members to pay with

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_01]: points is that increase customer loyalty and sales as they've been at a measurable impact that you've

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: seen since a retailer is implemented this absolutely so consumers are are really using this

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: in a I'll say the mind-blowing fashion we launched recently a very large financial institution in

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_00]: with the ability to pay with points at your local petrol or gas station and we were expecting

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: uptake to be in the single digits and we're actually almost hitting 30 percent uptake of the offer

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: which allows a consumer to buy down the the cost per gallon for filling their car with petrol so

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that's what example we're seeing where just providing it discount not necessarily a free

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: transaction for the consumer has generated huge huge wins for both the the station so

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: this was an impressed release so we can talk about the fact that it's BP who offers us

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: to their customer base and we are expanding to other other gas stations but they're seeing huge

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: benefits to this and at the same time I think it addresses one of the misnomers in a loyalty space where

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: people think that they don't want you to use the points regardless of what the program is

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and the reality is as you consume your loyalty currency whether it's miles or points you

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: actually become more engaged in the program and we see that revolving earn and burn a really

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_00]: short customer that's engaged with the brand trusting the brand in ultimately performing very

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_01]: well for that brand. And also companies in industries bet a suit to implement loyalty points as an

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: alternative payment choice than others and and people listening that maybe we'll suffer a few

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_01]: long bells a few live old moments at the conversation today. What kind of benefits should they

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: expect? I don't think that there's a specific industry that we're take to this better than others

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a value across the board there's that halo effect when this happens so it can be

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_00]: $300 transaction that maybe you're discounting because you've got a hundred dollars worth of points

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and you see significant value there maybe that's that extra bit for you to ultimately get that TV

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: you're looking for. It's just equally as important for that free cup of coffee on the way and so

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_00]: you know integrated into the past system where customers walk by their coffee shop and now

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: that coffee's free because of their interaction and loyalty to a specific brand. Both of those

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: scenarios bring tremendous value for the consumer and every consumer is different. Every one will

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_00]: see value the way they want to be addressed from their brand so I'd argue that there isn't a

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: a perfect place for this to be implemented I think all places are perfect to be honest with you.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Then looking to the future are there any other innovations in loyalty program management and

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: indeed technology that are creating that ideal customer experience and if we look even further into

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_01]: the future how do you see AI impacting these programs to I think as we continue to do things like

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_00]: build out this network and what we're also seeing is a significant number of partnerships.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of brands are becoming very comfortable with what they offer and willing to partner with other brands

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_00]: really the future of loyalty is this cohesive journey for a customer where in their day-to-day

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: life they're interacting with a number of brands and all of those brands are connected in the background

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and bringing value to the consumer so it could be you know, hopping on the tube and tapping my card

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and then right before I get on I pick up a cup of coffee and then ultimately on the way home

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_00]: using a transaction to buy some groceries to bring home and then I pay for my subscription service

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: really to watch some whether it's a sporting event, whether it's media or a movie.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: You know there can be a cohesive journey for all of that and then all that can be anchored in the

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_00]: background by a larger financial institution or a larger retail retailer and I think that journey is

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_00]: going to be all called an urbanifer consumer and also for the brands themselves so obviously a lot of

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_00]: information being computed in the background a lot of decision making and happening for the consumer

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and for the brands. So I think again back to circling back to our the first part of our

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_00]: conversation that's where you know tools like AI can really help brands you know having offering to

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_00]: the consumer that that really is personalized where they really feel it's a one-to-one conversation.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Well the big thank you for shining a light on the continued technological innovation

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: in the loyalty and retail space and before I let you go I'm going to ask you to leave one final gift

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: everybody at least they can I always ask my guest to leave a book or a song that I can out

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_01]: either add to an Amazon wish list or a Spotify playlist or I'm going to ask you what would you like

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: to leave as with and why. I'm going to go with a book and songs were equally intriguing for

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_00]: everyone you asked that question. I have music in the background all of time and I think this

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_00]: actually ties together is I really love creativity wherever that's coming from and you know one

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: of the brands that I think for the longest time was the epitome of creativity was apple and

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_00]: no finish my second go of a book on Johnny Island from Apple the genius behind apples greatest

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_00]: products and and I love the story there because it really exemplifies a group of people working

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: together to build something and not stopping till they're hitting kind of that perfect scenario so

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_00]: you're carrying a boat apple product, both inside and out and not cutting any corners. So things

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_00]: like that inspire me you know reading the stories of how deodorations of getting to the to the

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_00]: ipod to the iPhone and even just the original iMacs not specifically because it's apple just

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: seeing individuals work so hard together and not cutting any corners and really not settling for

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_00]: anything at less than perfection is inspiring for me so that that's one that really helped me

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: day to bring that message back to the organization here. What a great tool I said I'll get that

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: added straight to Amazon wishlist I've got to ask hello you I did know issue you used

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: or almost referred to apple in the past tense when it comes to innovation where do you stand

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_01]: all on that reputation still innovating well as as far as you can see or room for improvement

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's room for improvement there I think the aforementioned individuals no longer with that

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_00]: organization and you can definitely feel that there's definitely room for improvement they've got a good

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: piece and a huge bank account in order to do great things and I always encourage any organization

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: to never settle for anything less than greatness. A little bit of very diplomatically out said that

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: before I let you go anyone interested in learning more about engage people about the

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_01]: technology and the loyalty programs that we've talked about today is anyway you'd like to

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_00]: point everyone listening absolutely the best place to follow engages you through our website

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00]: but we're very active on LinkedIn so I'd encourage you to go to LinkedIn and follow engage people

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and you can learn quite a bit about not just what we're doing as an organization but we love to

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_00]: share you know important news across technology in general and definitely have comments out there

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and I love to participate in conversation so please feel free to follow engage and you can follow

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_00]: myself at Lent Kavella and welcome any feedback or any questions. We'll so well I'll add links to

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_01]: those for people to find you nice and easily and so much I loved about Jaywee today from how AI is

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_01]: being used to enhance the customer experience by analyzing these vast amounts of data from everything

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_01]: from purchasing behavior browsing history demographic information but ultimately allowing

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_01]: retailers to offer hyper personalised product recommendations and then eventually paying with points

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_01]: of dear what people think about that and as the expectations become the norm for those kind of

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_01]: services how retail is going to reach those expectations but more than anything just thank you

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_01]: for shining a lie on this today thanks again or my pleasure now so as we conclude our discussion

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_01]: with Lent Kavella for main gauge people today I think it's evident is it the integration of AI and

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_01]: loyalty technologies is set to reshape the retail landscape and I was really interested in hearing

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: about how by enabling consumers to pay with points and leveraging data for hyper personalised

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_01]: experiences engage people is driving innovation and enhancing customer loyalty and the future of

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: retail promises more seamless and more cohesive interactions and overcoming challenges like inflation

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and competition with banks in this loyalty space is also very interesting and for the most

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_01]: part whenever I see loyalty programs it always seems to be about spending more money and these

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_01]: things seem to be any real benefit so I'm curious I want to hear more about your favorite customer

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_01]: loyalty programs the good the bad deal glee I want to hear about them all tell me some good

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: examples bad examples and what you want from a loyalty program and just paying with points does that

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: interest you as always email me now tech blog writer outlook dot com twitter linkedin instagram just

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_01]: at Neil see here let me know how you see these advancements impacting your shopping habits all

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_01]: business strategies but that's it for today so thank you for listening today hope you'll

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01]: join me again tomorrow what until next time

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_01]: don't be a stranger