2974: Revolutionizing Software Development with API Mocking Techniques

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: What if you could enhance your development process by removing dependencies and accelerating

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: your workflow?

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, today here on Tech Talks Daily, I've got a special guest who has done just that.

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_00]: He is the co-founder and CEO of Why Amock Cloud, and he's going to be joining us

[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_00]: today to delve into the world of API Mocking, and it's pivotal role in boosting developer productivity.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And he's got a background that spans engineering, product management and sales,

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_00]: plus a wealth of experience in scaling startups, and building robust sales organizations.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And under his leadership, Why Amock Cloud has grown into a critical tool for developers

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_00]: by simplifying the API life cycle from design to testing. So today we're going to explore

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_00]: how API Mocking can create isolated development environments, allow teams to work in parallel,

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and ultimately innovate faster. I will also dive into Why Amock's journey from open source

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_00]: project to commercial powerhouse, discussing their unique go-to-mark strategies and the value

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: that they bring to their customers. So whether you are a developer looking to better stream

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: on your workflow, or just curious about the latest in API technology, this episode is packed with

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_00]: insights. You won't want to meet! Now this daily tech podcast does involve many costs,

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_00]: so a big thank you to the sponsor for their invaluable support of Tech Talks Daily.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: The things that I'm reading more and more about lately is defense contractors are facing immense

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[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and hold on tight as I beam your ears all the way to San Francisco where today's guest is waiting

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: a joiners. So a massive wall well curbed to the show. Can you tell everyone listening?

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I let you know about who you are and what you do. Hi, thank you for ever been me here.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So my name is Uri Maroz. I'm the CEO for WildMock. It's startup that optimizes the

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: federal productivity in an API-dependent environment by mocking your dependencies and click

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_01]: in an isolated environment. It's a bit about myself to give some context and actually

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: starting my career in general as a engineer and a engineering manager in the company named Mercury,

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: then I moved to product management and I actually did product management for fuel wheels

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and for product and application performance management space. Then I did what I like to

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: use really call us, they moved to the dark side and moved to sales. And what I was doing in the past

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: ten years is join startup in very early stage for your revenue and then building the entire

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_01]: self-organization and business for the company and scaling them from zero or revenue to multimillion

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: to us and around them to a two-and-a-half years ago I met him with my partner today and found

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_01]: that they were able to get them. So I even experienced across a different aspect of the business

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_01]: by transitioning from running engineering to product management and then to sales and now we're

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: CEO of our own company. Although you moved to the dark side, one should engineer always an engineer,

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: right? That's stuff never leachy. Exactly and also the entire product that I walked at

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: are always technical product in the bit of space. So I've been the technical understanding

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and technical and revenue when you talk with a customer is really important so coming from

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_01]: technical space really helps when running business. And that's one of the motivations I invite you

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: on the podcast to join me today because every day I take a different area in technology and

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_00]: try and demystify, put it in a language everyone can understand. And the topic I wanted to talk

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_00]: about today in this age of APIs is API mocking. So can you introduce the listeners to what exactly

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: what API mocking is and maybe explain how API mocking enhances developer productivity and

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe even bring it to life with some real world examples that you've seen at why I'm

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: a cloud. And if you could share around that, where do you want to begin? I actually always try to

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_01]: begin with the problem. Yeah, I think it's always important to stay away from the problem that

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: you're solving and the problem is you mentioned about API APIs everywhere and the new normal

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_01]: we like to say the new normal is API driven developed us today is a lot of APIs that they can

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_01]: use in the development process, they versus the mobility application that used to build in the past.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And now you build an application and you have a lot of it. So it's built out the APIs

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and internally, APIs that you are using as the building blocks to any of the new R. So this is

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_01]: really good. But then the challenge comes when you actually have a lot of dependencies now because

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: you already developed an integrated lot of the API still, you're able to tell the APIs well not

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to all of these APIs are radial stable. So you have challenge. So if we are looking specifically

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: on a field out API's problem, you need to work with the lot of stealth out API that you

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_01]: integrate into your app and the stealth out API a lot of time, either you will not have access

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_01]: from the development environment or maybe the stealth out API, child, you for API core or maybe

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: the stealth out the company will give you some sandbox to work with but this sandbox is really

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_01]: not stable and now you need to work with multiple sandbox, some different companies and every day

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_01]: a different sandbox will failure process and you need to understand what happened. And even if it is

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_01]: stable then it's very, very hard to simulate like real life scenarios in like doing load test with

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_01]: the sandbox or negative testing and so on. So this is one challenge and also that the challenge

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: is to send the market where you have a challenge just around parallel development. So I usually

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: like to give an example if you are a mobile team and you want to build a new functionality for

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: the mobile app that is dependent on an API and the back and so you are sitting with the back

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and team and you're defining the API but now the the API is not ready, so the moment is actually

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: sitting and waiting for the back and team to deliver the API and then tie up our little walk it's

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_01]: optimized and not walking in a good way. So this is just just a few challenges that we see

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and then the solution of API, Mocking is actually enabling you to optimize your developer

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_01]: productivity by mocking or view or something for individual life the API is independent

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and then you can create a nice selected environment that you enable you to run much faster in

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_01]: the development process. So if we take the challenge of the stealth out the API by mocking all

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_01]: the stealth out the APIs now you are creating a nice storage and environment your full control

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: on the risk question response that you have and you can run fast in development process without

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: this dependency. So you're basically disconnecting this dependency for the development process

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and if you're looking at the power development then you are able to like I said before

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: the mobile team and the back and team so you will decide the API but now instead of waiting

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: even though the API is not exist yet you will mock the API that is now being implemented

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and the mobile team will be able to implement the mobile app against the mock while the back

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and team is actually implementing the other the real backend. Of course application programming

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_00]: in a face is all APIs as we've said are absolutely everywhere it's the way that two or more

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: computer programs or components communicate with each other inside every single business no matter

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: industry and I'm curious like what are the various stages of that API life cycle and how

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_00]: can API mocking be applied effectively at each of those stages. When you look on the live

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: cycle of API or the live cycle of the cycle of the cycle of the live cycle and then you have

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_01]: the plan and design where you're actually playing the API design it and then you want to develop

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and test the development API test it you have the various things that will work against the

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: API and then you have the deployment voting where you deploy the API and you want to

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: vote people on the API and the way that we look at the mocking in a while mock a lot of time

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_01]: mocking is kind of being related to the different tests where you're developing the testing

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: but we took in a approach where we actually say let's use mocking as an approach that we

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: use in every aspect of the development life cycle in order to simplify complex processes okay so

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: for example in the plan and design usually what companies will do is they need to decide a new

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_01]: API they will sit in some room maybe again getting back to the mobile team and back in

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_01]: team example before so you will sit in the room together it may be right some examples on the board

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_01]: you know sketch on example on the board and then you generate them document of it of that

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and later on out the back and team will go to implement the API based on this document that is

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of unstructured document and the mobile team is working against the document as well so this

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: entire process is a bit cumbersome so for example here we have an approach where we are

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_01]: calling it mock-based API prototype or pick mock-up API design well we're saying okay take the

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: as the as the example is your creating just create the mock as the example that I'll describe

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_01]: in the API some kind of prototype in the field we and then from that we will generate all the

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: API specification and the documentation fault all that the team can walk against that so it

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_01]: really simplified the API design process in other areas where we apply mock-in and we are kind of

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: seeing that we are simplified complex process are in the development and test for example

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: there is a practice called kiosen genering well kiosen genering is a practice where

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: you want environment to fail in another predict the railway and you want to see how your

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_01]: application will be with this failure and there are case skills and engineering skills in the

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_01]: course but they are very complex to use a lot of time and they take time to avoid them and

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_01]: we said okay you know let's take mock-in because mock-in anyway is like on the network level

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: doing simulation or procrastinary response and let's run the mice faults on the network level

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and enable easy kiosen genering to check the resilience of your app in an environment will

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: things are fading randomly so just to examples where we are simplifying complex process using

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: but there are other examples as well and I'm curious where do you fit in all this what's the story

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_00]: behind why I'm on kiosen origins as I believe it was an open source project to the development of

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: the commercial edition and the implementation of PLG fill out there's a bit of a story there too

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah there is indeed so Toma Poutner actually created the open source project a win ago while

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_01]: in the process and the project got a quiet amount of traction in the market

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: if you look today on our open source metrics we have millions of downloads and

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_01]: demand under the contributors the project itself is being used by thousands of other open source

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: project and basically catching everywhere and it has a lot of traction and in black I said

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01]: on the two and a half years ago in me and Toma joined and I was very excited about the traction

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: of the open source and about the potential of building is like solving a big problem in

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: the year and building a big business plus I was familiar with the challenge for my base

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: from a file days as engineer and we decided to join for a test and to found the wire

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_01]: more the company and we found the wire more the company we released wire more cloud and top of that

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: where wire more cloud is the commercial edition and basically when we we can add more details about

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_01]: the later but basically we are we chosen model of open core where we are actually adding more

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: capabilities with the wire more cloud those are the open source and and focus in a really

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: improving the experience for people to tell you the open source and in wire more cloud itself

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_01]: we have a product-led motion and so we have a free forever edition where people can just

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_01]: start using the product it's very self-service with thousands of people that are using the product every

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: every month register into the product and they have like limited quarter that they can walk

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: away but it is free forever being reset every month we're really been even that and at some point

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_01]: of time they will get to some level where they'll get in an affid auction and we'll say okay I want

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: to invite a product and given your experience with both enterprise sales and product-led growth strategies

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: what do you see as the main differences and challenges between these approaches I'm interested in

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: in your take here and how you see the differences sure so yeah one of them I think interesting

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: thing about wire-mocked company is the kind of the synergy between the domain myself

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_01]: to make the open source world where it's coming from a then-to-priced motion and type of experience

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and in general like being able to combine the PNG and the then-to-priced motion themselves

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_01]: is the key for success of the company and and talk about like some changes so different

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: as between PNG and then-to-priced so in then-to-priced sell a lot of time it's a top-down sell

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_01]: where you are a walk in you have you know have like in many cases especially in the

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_01]: United States startup you will be really focusing on generating meetings what we call top of the

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_01]: funnel and you will have a team of SDR sales developer representative that will call people

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and we'll try to convince them that they have a problem and come to a call and the process is

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_01]: very hard in that sense a while in the PNG the motion is well you want to with the product

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_01]: itself and it's always a good product and you know product that really fit the PNG motion in order

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: to do that but the idea is what I mentioned before while you're doing reforever addition

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and the people would just register to the product you will let them walk with the products for

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_01]: why it could take months even that they would walk with the product and then at some point

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_01]: they would raise their hand because they want to do by the product so so it's a it's a very

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: different motion in how you want that also in a lot of time it's a we rent a PICS sales it will be

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: focusing on loud deals and for loud sales companies and trying to plug this loud gentapise deals

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: while in the PNG it's a long long-tailed small deals and doing a lot of filters on that

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of that elites at the hotel terminal and the focus will be on I want to net people

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: you'll the product and just coming right there and like I said before and the PNG basically also

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_01]: allows you usually to buy the product by yourself and you will see a lot of companies that are

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: off in the product for like 10 don't else and months and things like that and you can scale with that

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: him so this is PNG VLC VFC VFC price sales and there is that approach in the middle which

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: it's called PLS which is product sales that actually enable a gain everyone to use the product by

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: themselves they are able to educate the self of the product they are they can get value from the

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_01]: product from the free addition forever before every addition but they will not be able to buy the

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_01]: product by themselves so when they they will be ready then they will need to raise their hand and then

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_01]: to a college sales and this is the motion that we are running and we see that as a motion that

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_01]: really enable you to take the kind of the advantage of both raw words and really focusing on

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: getting and delivering values to customers at the time when they are ready to want to buy the product.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And before you came on the podcast I was doing a little research and one of the things that

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_00]: stood out to me is that why am I cloud boaps why are diverse client-based really from IBM to NIAH over

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: energy and in jannico. Again quite diverse so how do you tailor your API developer productivity platform

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: to meet the unique needs of such a varied line up of organizations there do everybody have the same

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_00]: needs or do you have to tailor make for each individual or each individual business?

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah this is a great question and they think that they as a startup in in general even not as a

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_01]: startup you really need to be careful with a platform play course vertical and make sure that you

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_01]: earn with the right product to do that. And the question that is to ask a certain kind of planning to

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_01]: run such a motion is that do I need to understand the vertical specifically in order to deliver value?

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And if the answer is yes then you should be very careful in going to such play as your might

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_01]: spread to a thing and it will be very helpful customer to get value from the product. Okay so

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_01]: so basically if you're product actually require understanding of the vertical and you will need

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_01]: like this one take it abilities in the product well vertical or different content and so on a or different

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_01]: go-to-market motion if you can be very helpful run such a business. And the same with the

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_01]: answer is now then then you have like a good platform play and the thing about why I'm

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_01]: a cloud is that we have a very good platform play like you mentioned we have customers across I

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_01]: think almost every vertical and like I mentioned the product is also self-service so people are

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_01]: are actually creating everything by themselves and the key is that the users will ever platform

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and the platform gives them the tools in order to very easily mock every 80 either the dependant

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and it doesn't matter if they appear that they are mocking is the financial organization that

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_01]: they are mocking or travel side they are mocking or an energy company that they need to mock so

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_01]: so the workflow will be the same the request and response and flow will be the same

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and there will not be any difference and this is what enable us to actually rather a platform play

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_01]: that is scalable and successful and enable us to actually give the value across or the

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: the verticals that you mentioned that we are working with. I will give an example of an area where

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_01]: we are looking on being a bit more verticalized we have very no product template so users can actually

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_01]: start from the template and the template will be like we have thousands of templates of different

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_01]: APA-Telt out API and you can just kind of generate the mock from the template and

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_01]: if you want now to kind of say I want to generate now templates that are really certified

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_01]: for the hair scale for example or for open bulk and so on this is where you will need the

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_01]: vertical knowledge and this is an area where we all kind of say okay we need to be careful

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and we need to really know what we do if we will say that okay we have a solution for the

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_01]: hair scale and so on but again getting back to the core with why I'm a cloud it's a flat some

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_01]: play and if you're able to get value across any verticality work. And I also read the erase I think

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: six and a half million dollars in seed funding incredibly competitive space which is also

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_00]: really impressive so I'll be off of startup founders listening around the world what strategies and

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: factors do you think contribute to that success and is there any advice that you'd give to

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: other startups that maybe looking up following in your footsteps and seeking similar funding?

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. So yeah I think that basically the key for us is that we had something real

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and we were able to show good capabilities they cross their the final like I mentioned we are

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_01]: open so say the total work done before and so with the well-set well good good KPIs or the

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: open structure but even good KPIs in the open structure in this market is not good enough and because

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of the open source companies you see that they have challenging monetizing and then this is

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: our quite concerned about monetization and the developer tool space and the lot of aspect around that

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_01]: but for us we were able to show first of all the good open source metrics but also a good vision

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_01]: of how we will monetize on that and what is our kind of story and what is the platform

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: story that we are going to deliver up. We were able to show like initial success of customer

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: the taxor scale from the open source and move to the commercial edition and we're talking about

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_01]: the value that they'll get in on that so some of that enable us to get the six point five million

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_01]: of our funding and in my advice to found that as the like I mentioned being able to show us

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_01]: much structure as you can with with low budget a lot of time you will have some budget to start even

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_01]: before the initial funding and so being able to show us much structure as you can with what you have

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01]: so far build the story very well show how you can scale especially in this market which is very

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_01]: friendly as the goal and what is your monetization and when the nation's strategy and really

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: show that there is a good platform direction and any proof of the direction that you can show

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_00]: with the pilot that you have so far. And I think there are many open source software companies

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: often struggle with that monetization aspect so how did you build a successful monetization strategy

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: on top of what I'm on I was as framework up here say you really seem to have stood gold with

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah so yeah like a lot of like you mentioned a lot of companies in the open source space have

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01]: good open source traction but then they have a challenge of monetization because they're one

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_01]: one say to have a free product eventually especially when you're in the middle of the RS space

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and the middle of the RS said that's not like to pay but I think this is also a key where my experience

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: together with Tom was kind of very well and like I mentioned which is the open core model because

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_01]: they're various models to monetize on top of open source if you say the default to the open source

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_01]: or open core where you are actually saying okay I'm even quality for being a student open

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: store but then I'm given additional capabilities on top of the commercial edition and the way that

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_01]: we build it we actually define that first of all we really believe in the open source and we

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_01]: are investing a lot of our thoughts in the open source team today adding a lot of content to the open source

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_01]: there are a lot of stuff that we are ready to open source first and later on adding them to the

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: commercial edition there is always discussion about that but the way that we position it is that

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_01]: the open source is the product or the tool where you're doing walking the basic walking

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but as you scale and you need like more serious scale and you need like more capabilities to

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: really optimize your developer productivity because the stock is not a developer lifecycle

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: then you will move to while I'm a cloud and this is the area where you will get for example

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: in all the stuff that I mentioned before around the QS test in and the API mock based API prototype

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01]: that we have in contract testing and a lot of our capabilities that exist in the commercial edition

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and does not exist in the open source okay so the key is to to

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_01]: invest in the open source you don't want to neglect the open source and like I mentioned there

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_01]: is a lot of stuff that we are ready in the open source and the add-in-dense files a lot of times

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_01]: things that we enable the individual developer to use the product in a sufficient way and then on top

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: of that while mock-loud the like I mentioned is the enterprise kind of developer productivity

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_01]: platform that really enable you to take your organization to the next phase and yeah and we

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_01]: define the task to move from the open source to the commercial edition so see this is kind

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: of the this is the key for us and indeed we have been quite successful in moving a lot of

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: but yeah you so don't always accept that there will be people that will still use your product

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: free and we'll get value and we keep investing that that's when

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm glad you mentioned the value because I think with any new tech solution businesses are now

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: increasingly focusing on ROI and what measurable tangible benefits will this bring me so what

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_00]: would you say are the most significant productivity gains that you've observed in developers

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: that use the Y mock API developer productivity platform and how is it addressing the dependencies

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: on third party APIs and micro services I looked here more about those measurable benefits and

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: different things making yeah so by using mocking cost a different aspect of the

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_01]: sub-developer that's like it you're able to take your productivity or organization with the next phase

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and we have the nice thing is that we have some very clear ROI numbers so if you're looking

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01]: on the in save development times we have custom errors like a junior for example which is an

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_01]: e-commerce company that is talking about the fact that they had really high challenge in parallel

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: they the work of the front team in the back team and they were able to save like three weeks of

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_01]: time every iteration so reducing the kind of deaf time cause increase in velocity and reduced

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_01]: time to market we have a customers that are talking about fact that they are reducing tested

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: environment cause because you need to you need to test somehow so you will have like a lot of

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_01]: time testing environment that it's very how to maintain them I was in very it's very costy to

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_01]: maintain them I was just talking with the customer and he was telling me that he's think that they'll

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_01]: just in environment cost is actually higher than the production environment so by using mocking

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: they are able to meaningful reduce the cost of that or reducing the cost which is also an important

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: factor especially these days where everyone tries to reduce cost and most ability in build and testing

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_01]: enable better quantity software we're talking about customer that's our with customer that

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: are reducing the service rate and increasing the productivity by using the care testing and testing

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_01]: stuff that would otherwise be discovered in production and so all of these things are really

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: enhancing developer productivity and also increasing the quality of your software because you

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_01]: are able to develop and test in a much more stable way plus with the dependencies by disconnecting

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_01]: dependencies you can as much more autonomy when you are actually running your development

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: unless dependency on other people that need to deliver stuff and you are waiting for them.

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Well thank you so much for showing your insights only in the importance of this topic and demystifying

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_00]: it putting a language everyone can understand but before I let you go I'm going to ask you the

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_00]: what final gift everyone listening and that is either a book that means something to you that we

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_01]: what would you like to leave everyone with and what I want to choose the book and I want to choose

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_01]: the the set of the generations from what I'm by Mark Robbert and the reason that I'm kind of

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_01]: choosing this book is that there really basically is the the person that joined the Hapspot when it was

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_01]: very early stage and they absolutely didn't see our mentor so he joined when it was very early stage

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and a built-in type of business for the company and he's standing in the book how he joined this

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_01]: company without an experience in 74 and it's back on was an engineering and he's standing

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_01]: how we got to be a self-sleder at a small startup that way and how we tackle the sense problems

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_01]: from an engineering background really kind of you know creating some methods to that engineering

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_01]: based in order to run the sales process by Numbild and so on and and first of all I really

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_01]: resonated with it's journey because I'd like to see my journey for engineering to say and join

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_01]: it also like a very early startup stage startup you know that to found the business

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and second it's a very practical book you see a lot of books in the sales area where it's very high level

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and sometimes give less value and this book is really practical and they give a lot of good tools

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_01]: you know that run the sales organization and really scale the company in an efficient way

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_01]: which I really like and I really recommend it you know to people living in

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_01]: engineers to learn about that book and see how people are moving from engineering and kind of go

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_01]: out of the box there for engineering and they see our other projects that they're walking

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_00]: absolutely I'll get that out of to Amazon wishlist and for anyone listening just wanting to find

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_00]: up more information about why I'm up cloud or even ask you will you'll tell you many additional

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_01]: questions well do you like to point everyone listening yes so we have been we're trying to be quite

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: active in the you know the social channels that we have a lot of social talents in LinkedIn we

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_01]: there and so on so we'll be glad if you people will follow us we will just release them by the way

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_01]: something quite nice we call it the spot the book game that enable you like that we are

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_01]: releasing a game every two weeks where people need to find the difference that's between two

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: images and a price it's for that we call it for the book so we are going to also have some

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_01]: fun stuff like that we have a website so there are two websites for wildbook wildbook.org and wildbook

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: the phyau which is the community shell we kept the price in between the product we have the

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_01]: sessions like a wildbook line where we are publishing like well do the technical sessions every few

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_01]: weeks about the productivity ability we'll be now the three are doing and so on so yeah the best

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_01]: one is to follow us in LinkedIn or Twitter or any other channel or kind of you know look at our website

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and then get the details from there also a lot of everything that we covered so much in the show

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_00]: amount of time from the importance of API mocking how it helps to improve developers productivity

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and also have to apply API mocking in different aspects of that API life cycle and also

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_00]: of course getting to hear your the magnificent story behind why I'm out too but more than anything

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_00]: just take you for showing your insights and your story with me today thank you thank you for

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_00]: me, Russman and as we wrap up today's episode I think it's clear that API mocking is more than just

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_00]: a tool it's a game changer for developers and my guest journey from why I'm out cloud I think

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_00]: highlight is the power of innovation and strategic application in transforming complex processes into

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: seamless experiences what about me reducing development time and testing cost or increasing autonomy

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and all development velocity why I'm up seems to be setting no standards in this field so thank you

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_00]: to today's guest for giving me a glimpse into the future of API development but what are your thoughts

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: on API mocking of you experience the impact in your projects as always share your thoughts join

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_00]: the conversation while I simply email me techblogwriteroutlook.com or click on me on LinkedIn just

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and you'll see who's but that's it for today so thank you so much for listening hope you'll

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_00]: join me again tomorrow hope until next time don't be astrained it