3003: REMspace and the Next Revolution in Brain Health and Lucid Dreaming

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_01]: What if the boundary between our dreams and reality could be blurred, allowing us to explore

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_01]: the limitless potential of our subconscious minds?

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Well today I am excited to be speaking with Michael Raduga, founder of REMspace.

[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And his pioneering work in lucid dreaming aims to merge dream and physical realities.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to learn more about his personal journey, the groundbreaking self-experiment

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that led to direct brain stimulation during REM sleep and the vast possibilities that

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_01]: this technology could hold for things like therapy, education and beyond.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And understand how close we are to a future where our dreams are not just figments

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_01]: of our imagination but fully immersive experiences.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Reaching listeners in 165 countries every day is testament to the unwavering support

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: of you my listeners and our sponsors, without whom this podcast just simply wouldn't be possible.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And it also gives me a chance to talk about the fact that Legacy DRM failed to securely

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_01]: enable external collaboration, especially on sensitive files, and how every organisation

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: faces this risk trust contradiction where they can share content with untrusted third

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_01]: party, yet expected to protect that data.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's time for something more modern, a DRM solution that solves that dilemma without

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_01]: compromising security or productivity.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And you can do all that with a company called Kiteworks that will enable you

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: to say goodbye to deployment headaches, file transfer risks, collaboration barriers

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and productivity constraints, so you can experience a more modern way to collaborate

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_01]: on sensitive content without sacrificing control or security.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Please visit Kiteworks.com to get started today, that's Kiteworks.com to get started today.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Now is the moment you've really been waiting for, it's time to get today's guest on.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So buckle up and hold on tight because no matter where you are in the world I'm

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: going to be beaming your ears all the way to San Francisco where Michael's waiting

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: to share his inspiring story.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So a massive warm welcome to the show Michael, can you tell everyone listening

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me on your podcast, Neil.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Michael Raduga, I'm the CEO of Rampspace, it's a company startup located in Silicon Valley

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and basically we are trying to merge two realities together, dreams and physical reality.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_00]: We develop technologies related to REM sleep and conduct studies about the same topic as well.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Well it's a huge pleasure to have you join me today Michael because there's so many different

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_01]: reasons I was excited to get you on here, I'm going to give you way too much information

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: than you need here but I'm a big dreamer okay and I can go to the toilet in the

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_01]: middle of the night and I can go back into bed and get straight back into that dream.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So when I was hearing about the work that you were doing especially around lucid dreaming

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and all that you tick all the boxes for me.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you just to set the scene, share the vision and inspiration behind Rampspace and

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_01]: what led you to pursue such groundbreaking research in lucid dreaming and virtual reality?

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel there's got to be a great story here.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'm pretty sure it will be a big story because for me it is an inevitable

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_00]: future for humankind because when we can conquest dreams, when we control them,

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: it means that humanity will be able to live in two worlds, physical one and an

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: unlimited one in dreams. And I knew this when I was a kid because

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_00]: when I was a teenager I experienced sleep paralysis, outer body experience, lucid dreams

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: it's all the same but it looks different. People think that lucid dreams and sleep

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_00]: paralysis are different but in reality they have the same physiological nature.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And so when I was a teenager and I started to experience those things,

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I was so amazed by hyper reality of those sensations and unlimited abilities

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: that I was shocked and I knew that it is the future. And imagine myself a kid in Siberia

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: being able to travel wherever I wanted and doing whatever I want

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_00]: in a hyper real reality without any limitations. So I knew that it would be something big.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was amazed that in general people had no idea about it.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And that is why right now I'm here in Silicon Valley and trying to push this idea further

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_00]: as much as I can. Because I'm pretty sure that sooner or later we will combine our realities

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: together by developing new technologies and it's going to be a different world.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, I've got a proper geek out here because I am someone that can control my dreams as well

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and my wife thinks I'm absolutely crazy. I've always thought I was a bit of a freak here.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_01]: You took it a step further. You implanted a chip in your brain which is an incredibly bold move.

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So can you walk me through the process, the rationale behind the experiment and

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_01]: what have been the initial results and insights from doing this?

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So the primary idea is simple. So you have had an experience with lucid dreams.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So you know that to induce them you have to do something special or it happens

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: spontaneously but very rarely. So and currently all technologies to induce lucid dreams

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: they don't work because they try to wake you, they try to send you signals when you

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: sleep, when you see dreams but people just wake up because that's what happens when you

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: see lights or hear sounds. And for many years I had been dreaming to test a hypothesis

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: that if we try to send signals directly into the dream space I would perceive those signals

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_00]: in my dreams and it would wake me. So I needed to test a hypothesis that if I send signals

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: directly into the dream world in theory I would perceive them and it wouldn't lead to awakening.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So that was an idea because if it works it means that we can develop technologies

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_00]: which will almost guarantee lucid dreams for people without any techniques, any methods and so on.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And of course I didn't plan to do it by myself. It was just a critical situation,

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a different story. I just lost my laboratory and resources in Russia but I didn't

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: lose my determination to test this hypothesis and while I was waiting for my green cards

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: in another country I decided to do this because I knew that in the United States

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_00]: just because of bureaucracy I won't be able to do it very soon because it's a very complex

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_00]: procedure as you may know. So I did it, it was very hard. It took a few months of preparation

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was very dangerous. Nobody should do this of course. But in the end I was right.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Then we had a full month of experiments and I was sleeping with sensors and one of my scientists

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_00]: were tracking REM sleep and sending signals directly into my brain when I was in REM sleep.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And we saw two things. First, it didn't wake me because when you hear an alarm clock you just

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_00]: wake up. It doesn't help you to become conscious in your dream, just wake up. But it appears that

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_00]: when we send signals directly into the dream world it does not wake you up. So it means

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_00]: that you can sense any information in your dream world, visual, sensory perception,

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: just to let you know that you are in a dream world. And for example the electrodes were

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: on the motor cortex of my left hand and for example by stimulating it in wakefulness

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: my fingers moved a little bit. And the same thing happened in lucid dreams.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So when we were simulating the same cortex my arm in lucid dreams were reacting the same way

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_00]: as it happened in reality. So we demonstrated that we can send signals into dreams and potentially

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: in the future, very near future, just in a few months there will be other studies.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And it means that we can develop technologies to almost guarantee lucid dreams for anybody

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_00]: without knowing any techniques, methods. We can send signals and say you are asleep,

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: you can do anything, there are no boundaries. And this was the goal and it was the most

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: hardest experiment in my life but it was successful. And right now, so first of all

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: we should understand that we were doing it not for publishing these results because it was

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_00]: impossible initially because ethically it was not ideal I would say. But I needed this just for

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: our studies, just to understand what to do next. And right now here in the States

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I know what to do next and that's why I needed to do it before arriving here.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, it's just absolutely incredible. I'm curious, you can help people lucid dream but what does

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_01]: lucid dreaming mean to you? Is it our minds just making sense of things as we sleep? Are

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: there hidden meanings? What does this world mean to you? Because I know we all wake up

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: having a dream of some sort and we go to Google to try and Google what does this dream

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_01]: mean if I have this dream? What does lucid dreaming mean to you?

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, you fully understand that you are in a dream and you can do it every

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_00]: once. So it's not about just vivid dreams or interesting dreams. No, for example I see

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of dreams every night and they could be very vivid but it's not about lucid dreams.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Lucid dreams it's when you understand what's going on and you know that you are asleep

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: somewhere in reality. Now you're in a different dimension, a dream world and you can do

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: whatever you want. So you don't continue the dream plot, you just do whatever

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: you would do if you knew that you were asleep and you're in a dream.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Usually everything becomes more vivid. Sensations could overcome reality,

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_00]: its quality and you can do anything. Seeing other people traveling, it's not about

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_00]: seeing and touching, it's about any kind of perceptions. For example, you can eat

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_00]: something tasty and you can control taste, you can experience pain, pleasure. 50% of people

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_00]: try to experience something related to sexual experience because there are no limits.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: That is why when we develop technologies which will allow people to experience it easily,

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: everybody will use it because it gives you so many opportunities for any person.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: That is why all we need to do is just to create better technologies to make it easier

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_00]: to induce lucid dreams and everybody will use it because it is just a new reality where you

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_00]: are free of rules, physical limitations and you can finally do whatever you want.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: This is useful for anybody.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: To help people understand what we're talking about here, how does lucid dreaming have the

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: potential to maybe replicate or even surpass experiences that they might already know such

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_01]: as virtual reality is an obvious one? Do you think it can surpass even those experiences?

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, it's a different technology and I'm pretty sure that virtual reality will

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: exist by its own because it may be useful for different purposes.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But when we talk about lucid dreams, it's a different story because, for example,

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: virtual reality does not let you feel things, real touching, you cannot eat things,

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_00]: experience taste, pain, pleasure. So mostly it's about visual perception,

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: some kind of interaction. But when we talk about lucid dreams, the only thing that could

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: be compared to lucid dreams is physical reality. It is just another reality but without limits.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You can do as much as you can do here with physical reality plus anything that you can

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_00]: imagine. So in virtual reality, you just see things, can interact with them but you cannot

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_00]: fully emerge in virtual reality.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_01]: For the work that you're doing right now, what technological advancements and

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: indeed innovations are you working on at Remspace to harness the power of lucid dreaming

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_01]: for practical applications? Anything you can share around what you're working on and what

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_00]: you want to bring to life here? Basically, we've been working in so many

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: directions including studies and developing new products for people to help them to induce lucid

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_00]: dreams. If we talk about studies, we have developed our new apparatus. For example,

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: it helps us to speed up studies maybe 10 times because instead of inviting all the lucid

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00]: dreamers in our laboratory as we did previously and as all laboratories do, they just invite

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: experienced lucid dreamers in their laboratory because they have equipment. But we decided to

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: develop an equipment and special equipment that we can send to people to experience

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_00]: practitioners and connect to them via our servers so we can remotely

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_00]: obtain data. We can remotely conduct studies and it will allow us to speed up everything

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: 10 times more. I cannot share with you actual possibilities of what we can expect, but

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_00]: believe me it will revolutionize anything. It is much more than you can expect. For example,

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: right now we've been working on something that you would never imagine that it is already possible.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So I cannot share all the results, but just understand two years ago, three years ago,

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_00]: we were able to hear our sensors, what people say in lucid dreams. We were able to

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: read melodies so people were able to transfer melodies from dreams. We were able to connect

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_00]: to smart home from lucid dreams so people from lucid dreams were able to control light,

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_00]: electrical kettle and radio for example, switch on and switch off from dreams.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And we were able to do it one or two years ago. So if we were able to do this

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: previously, you can imagine what we could work on right now because it should be much more advanced.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But I cannot talk about it because it's not guaranteed that we will achieve it and

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I will look stupid. So I better talk about things when we have achieved them.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, it certainly sounds like we need to get you back on regular intervals to see how things are

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_01]: progressing. But everybody listening, what would you say are the potential benefits lucid dreams

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_01]: offer to them? Especially around things like mental health and overall well-being. Are there

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: any benefits like that? Yeah, of course. There are many studies about how lucid dreams could

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: improve our life. For example, the most easiest way how you can use lucid dreams to improve your

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_00]: life is psychology. Any psychological problems. For example, if you have some phobias, fears

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: in lucid dreams just by encountering deliberately, by your wish, your fears,

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: for example, you're afraid of aliens or something like this, you can find them,

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: see them there and it helps a lot to reduce phobias in real life. And there are many studies

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_00]: on this topic. It's just one of the examples. But in general, people want to use it for these

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: smart things because in general, lucid dreams is about true freedom. Because right now we all

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_00]: are victims of physical limitations. We have so many dreams, so many desires,

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: but to achieve some small things we have to do so much sometimes and we're limited.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00]: They even don't believe that there is something that may break all those obstacles.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's our goal just to create technologies and let people experience true freedom without

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_00]: limitations, achieving everything they would want to achieve.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And if we were to look many, many years into the future, how do you see this evolving?

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_01]: How do you envision businesses and tech sectors to capitalize on some of these

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_01]: capabilities that you know about here, that you can't share too much about

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_01]: around lucid dreaming in the near future? How do you see it all coming together for

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: businesses and the tech industry? It's quite easy. For example, everybody has

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: phones right now. Everybody uses the internet and everybody will have a device with a button

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and wherever you want. Whenever you want to just push the button and there are no physical

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_00]: limits anymore. I'm talking about the button which will allow to induce lucid dreams any moment.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not an easy achievement, but it is an inevitable thing. It will happen sooner or later.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And because everybody will like to use it, this technology will exist and

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: this device will exist and everybody will use it. Imagine that everybody wants to buy a product

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and it will affect many industries. For example,

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_00]: because people instead of watching TV, instead of surfing the internet, they will spend

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_00]: more time on something else. A hundred years ago we had just books, then radio, then television,

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_00]: then internet, virtual reality and it's going to be the next step and it will be very widespread

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's going to be normal to use these technologies. I think 10-15 years for this button.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: The question I've got to ask of course is what are the ethical considerations and potential risks

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: that you see in the realm of self-experimentation, neuro implants and enhancing cognitive functions

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and of course dream control. Is this something that you wrestle with as well?

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_00]: If we talk about self-experimentation, of course it's not ethical. You should avoid it

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and only people who are devoted their life for something

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_00]: like me, they are ready to risk their lives for something. They understand what they're doing.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's for them but in general you should avoid it by any means.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: In my case I had to do this only because I lost all normal ways to do this and it was an emergency

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_00]: situation for me and I just had to do this. But of course people should avoid it by any

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_00]: means. It's not a good idea and if we talk about affecting consciousness by lucid dreams,

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_00]: technologies related to this, first of all once again it is inevitable future.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're against this, even if there could be some obstacles and problems, these technologies

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: will evolve anyway and we need to focus on how to make it safer.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course there could be some issues and once again it's a different reality with all its

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_00]: pros and cons. I cannot say that it's a wonderful world where everything is perfect,

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: no. For example imagine hacking dreams. Right now people can hack your PC, but imagine the

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: same thing with your dreams. Somebody could intrude them, affect them and instead of pleasure you

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: could see some nightmares or something like this and it will happen as well. All we need to do

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: is just to predict this in advance and try to solve problems like this before we encounter them.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: If Charlie Brooker is listening I'm expecting an episode of Black Mirror in the near future

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_01]: based on our conversation. Looking to the future on the positive side of things,

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_01]: how do you see REM space contributing to advancements in big areas like neuroscience,

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: mental health and what are the big milestones that you're aiming to achieve on this journey?

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_00]: First of all we need to conduct many studies, very basic studies because you shouldn't say that

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: usually people are not motivated to invest so much time or power in resources and studies

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think that REM space first of all will contribute by conducting many studies

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_00]: which should be conducted but nobody is motivated to do them because they are very complex.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_00]: First of all we will conduct studies, then we will develop technologies and

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: those technologies could be used for different purposes, not just for entertaining people

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_00]: it's also for education, for problem solving like psychological problems and so on.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_00]: It will be used in many directions.

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And a question I've got to ask, I saw Elon Musk clip recently where he said that

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_01]: we're all on our smartphones all day every day but you never see a smartphone in a dream

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and I've been looking for them since. Have you seen people on smartphones in dreams? Can we

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_00]: lay this myth to rest? At least you can find it, in the least dream you can easily find it

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_00]: but people see smartphones in the least dreams in normal dreams so I disagree with him.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I love that and of course we've talked about your career, the success that you've had and

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01]: everything that you're building here but of course none of us are able to achieve

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_01]: any degree of success without a little help along the way so if you look back at your

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01]: career and your life is there anyone that's inspired you or you're grateful towards maybe

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_01]: they saw something in you helped you get you where you are? Who would that be and why?

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we give them a little shout out to them.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you should understand that because I do something unusual, very unusual and it's

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: very hard to find support of some traditional supporters or sponsors and only people who

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_00]: experienced the same thing as I did, they understand what's going on and as a result

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot thank a particular person but I'd like to thank all lucid dreamers who have

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: supported me so much that I'm here developing new technologies, a new company. It is only

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_00]: because of people for example like you who understand what's going on because you know

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_00]: it from your own experience and people who don't know this they just don't understand

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_00]: what's going on and that is why mostly my success is built on other people who have

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_00]: the same experience.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, lovely and for anyone listening wants to dig a little bit deeper on anything

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_01]: we talked about today. There's a passionate community of lucid dreamers out there as well.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyone wanting to find out more information about you, your story, anything we talked

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_01]: about, how they can get involved and help? Where would you like to point everyone listening?

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that the easiest way is just to google my name, Michael Raduga, websites or social

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_00]: media. Usually we post our news, discoveries online so just google my name and you will

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: find our websites, our books and so on. They're free mostly.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Well I will add links to everything there to the show notes so people can find you nice

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and easy. You had me on the edge of my seat here and that's not something I can say very

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_01]: often as someone that records so many episodes but I just love the story behind this

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_01]: audacious experiment that puts humanity one step closer to where we can control

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and even invoke lucid dreaming, potentially revolutionising advancements in everything

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_01]: from mental health, neuroscience, transcending VR while also disrupting the market as well.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's so much going on. I'd love to hear how things progress so please stay

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_01]: in touch and let me know how this evolves but more than anything thank you for sharing

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_01]: your incredible story with me today.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah thank you for inviting me and thank you for your amazing questions.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So as we stand on the brink of merging our dreamscapes with reality, what ethical

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_01]: considerations must guide this groundbreaking technology? Michael Raduga has given us a

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_01]: fantastic glimpse into a future where lucid dreaming could transform everything from

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_01]: psychological therapy to virtual reality and how will this intersection of dream

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and reality shape our experiences and maybe even redefine the limits of human potential?

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_01]: As a lucid dreamer I found this one particularly exciting but you've heard from

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_01]: me, you've heard from Michael, over to you. Are you a lucid dreamer? What do you think

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_01]: of these advances in tech? As always email techblogwriteroutlook.com, LinkedIn,

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Instagram, Twitter, just at Neil C Hughes. But it's time for me to take a nap in my

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_01]: chair now, maybe we'll lucid dream, who knows? But I do promise to return to your

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_01]: reality tomorrow and speak directly back into your ear balls with another guest.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But thanks for listening today, I'll speak with you all again tomorrow.