3031: How Xsolla is Revolutionizing Game Development and Monetization

[00:00:03] What does the future of video game development look like?

[00:00:09] Especially in this rapidly evolving digital marketplace.

[00:00:13] Well, today I'm thrilled to welcome Christopher Meredith, Senior VP of Business Development

[00:00:19] at Xsolla, a global video game marketplace company that is helping developers and publishers

[00:00:25] launch, market and monetize their games worldwide.

[00:00:30] And he's got an impressive career spanning industry giants from Sony PlayStation to

[00:00:35] Warner Brothers and also brings a wealth of knowledge to the table and experience in the industry.

[00:00:42] So today we'll talk about the role that they're playing in empowering game creators

[00:00:47] from indie developers to large studios and how they're guiding them through the funding

[00:00:52] marketing and distribution process.

[00:00:56] I will also try and uncover some insights from their state of play report and give us a

[00:01:02] first-hand look at how to use new digital markets act is reshaping the gaming landscape,

[00:01:09] especially if you're an indie developer.

[00:01:11] So how will this legislation affect developers and publishers when it level the playing

[00:01:16] field for smaller players in the industry?

[00:01:18] And what trends are on the horizon following Chris' time at Gamescom and Devcom

[00:01:24] and so many other different conferences out there?

[00:01:26] Well, I'll explain some of these answers together as we unpack the latest developments

[00:01:31] in the world of gaming all in Worcester here in the UK.

[00:01:36] Before we get to today's guest, I want to talk about the fact that Defense Contractors

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[00:02:39] But now it's time to return to our regularly scheduled programming and welcome today's guest

[00:02:45] onto the mic.

[00:02:47] So a massive wall-bill-com to the show, can you tell everyone listening a little about

[00:02:52] who you are, the what you do?

[00:02:54] And some I'm an interest narrative, I'm the serialized presence of Zollo for the EMA region.

[00:03:01] I'm being in gaming for about 25 years holding CMMC decisions with PlayStation, MoonMobile,

[00:03:09] who was a founding member of Warner Brothers Interactive that I built up to Reverend

[00:03:14] Newsman around about 25 million in the first 18 months and also ran MTV games in Europe

[00:03:20] all prior to joining the wonderful world of Exogular.

[00:03:25] So basically my role at Zolller and just to put this in context is basically to connect

[00:03:32] my team with the Development Community in EMA theory who connects developers and gaming

[00:03:39] organisations with our best in class monetisation solutions for the games they make.

[00:03:45] And then together they connect their games with gamers and the cycle is sort of completed

[00:03:51] when that partnership and the next games with the worldwide gaming community.

[00:03:57] So I'm going to give you no doubt to the sort of the basis of how the connection works,

[00:04:01] but that's primarily my role is to make sure all those connection points align and they work

[00:04:07] in a seamless and positive web.

[00:04:10] Well there are so many different reasons I'm excited to get you on the podcast.

[00:04:13] Today gaming's been a huge part of my life since those Atari 2600 days back in the

[00:04:18] day and I used to run a web cycle, this is my joystick, I'll help run a web cycle, this

[00:04:23] is my joystick.

[00:04:25] And Zolller has become a significant player in the global video game commerce space

[00:04:30] in recent years.

[00:04:31] So can you just tell me a bit more about how you're supporting game developers and

[00:04:35] indeed publishers throughout that whole life cycle of the game and funding to monetisation

[00:04:41] because that space has changed so much as me in over the years?

[00:04:46] So yeah, no absolutely I'm happy to answer that question and in order for Zolller to

[00:04:51] keep that position in the market and to offer best in class solutions for the marketplace

[00:04:56] we really make sure that we are starting at the grand level.

[00:05:00] In terms of funding, we sponsor new risk events and conferences for their depth community,

[00:05:06] allowing investors to meet face-to-face with developers seeking funding and support.

[00:05:12] Once I've finished this, I'd like to thank you for your support and titles and development.

[00:05:16] We then work closely with our partners, guiding in through our product suite, finding integration,

[00:05:22] and roadmap, speaks of all width solutions, may aid the maximisation of their revenues.

[00:05:28] And also to make sure they are focused on growth as well because they want to make sure

[00:05:33] that there are other products to follow the one that we've been working on with them.

[00:05:37] So in terms of we work to ensure that there's suite of opportunities that we provide

[00:05:42] with our solutions, works with their own individual business models.

[00:05:47] Now the landscape of the market has changed particularly over the last bite, be it us.

[00:05:54] And we're seeing now that not only do you need to be an expert in doing development,

[00:06:00] you also need to understand what is a monetisation model for your business?

[00:06:05] Well how do I actually make money?

[00:06:07] How do my efforts really result in the kind of the goals that I need to achieve?

[00:06:13] So that's an in our key part of the development expertise that they bring forward.

[00:06:20] And the line to that is what is I going to launch it?

[00:06:23] How do I make sure that my game is getting to your voice and a hugely congested market?

[00:06:29] And even with all the realignment we've seen in this marketplace, you're still seeing upward trends

[00:06:35] of revenues particularly here in EMEA.

[00:06:37] So the market increased increasingly grows in regards to revenue lines.

[00:06:45] So in regards to our products and the integration of our products,

[00:06:49] our customers support teams provide all kinds of sports too and an advice to our partners.

[00:06:56] And the product teams look together feedback regarding the French Raleigh and the functionality

[00:07:00] at our current products with those partners that we're working with.

[00:07:05] So to look towards the amount of future products,

[00:07:08] so we're always in constant development looking about changes in the marketplace,

[00:07:13] whether they're led by market demands or whether they are led by the developments needs

[00:07:18] to ensure that we best aid the commercial aspirations about partners.

[00:07:24] So as a merchant or record for developers and publishers in life,

[00:07:29] we deal with the tax, legal queries, and a number of other special ideas

[00:07:34] so that developers can really focus on working on their games,

[00:07:38] how to maximize the value from their games and how to journey to success with their games.

[00:07:44] In the midst of this, the business development and the liberal relations lead,

[00:07:49] you mean it's like closely with all of that on us,

[00:07:52] we ensure that we are aligned on making sure that integrations and feedbacks from what they need

[00:08:00] and what they want are being dealt with. So it's a multi-level service that we provide,

[00:08:06] not only once we are that partners are reiterating with our solutions,

[00:08:11] but how we maintain and consistently support those guys with their future needs.

[00:08:17] And before you came on the podcast for the A. I was doing a little research on your personal

[00:08:21] origin story and what happens to me is your career spans from roles at major companies

[00:08:28] from so many PlayStation to Warner Brothers. How have you or experience

[00:08:34] that these companies influence your approach to business development?

[00:08:39] Any cross-overs, any big synergies?

[00:08:42] I think the first learning is the fact that you'll have to appreciate being very lucky.

[00:08:47] Certainly opportunities, I'm a certain believer there.

[00:08:52] You're always at the right place at the right time, whatever that place might well be.

[00:08:56] And my career has been very for years at the same working with some extremely large brands

[00:09:02] and doing sort of very crazy stuff in the early days of gaming back to E3 all the way we are today.

[00:09:11] So in an interesting way technology and trends have all

[00:09:14] stored in the record of E3. The next thing is always around the corner,

[00:09:19] the only thing that lasts is networks and the connection that you have within the industry

[00:09:24] and what defines how those are brought to bear is you and how you can best make sure those

[00:09:30] works. And sometimes you've got to give a bit of love together a little love back.

[00:09:36] And I certainly found that a lot of my role at X goes back a number of years because of that

[00:09:41] quick pro quo, because of the fact that sometimes in me to your partners and your

[00:09:47] friends in a lot of institutions at way what you might like needing that point in time.

[00:09:52] Just make sure that you have a point of press that you can work through in regards to

[00:09:58] what you're doing any one particular time. And gaining that trust is really important in the

[00:10:04] industry and adapting the relationships as the playing field alter, because they do,

[00:10:09] as I alluded to before, they they all are almost on a weekly basis. So if you're going to

[00:10:15] position for success regardless of the changes in your market, you need to make sure that you

[00:10:21] those touch points and that trust in place to assist you growing through that.

[00:10:28] I think also my experience as I was going to give me a real appreciation of the impact of

[00:10:34] grassroots development in the gaming industry, I think the communities that I've seen grow from

[00:10:41] day one as it in these and small scale studios have been the real center point of study

[00:10:50] studios that are grown into huge monoliths of organizations. So forging partnerships at a

[00:10:57] very base level is absolutely key to making sure that you can then nurture support and divide

[00:11:04] solutions, which is basically what I've done throughout my whole career, it really stimulates

[00:11:11] and grow those markets out. And the industry really just seemed to be evolving at the moment.

[00:11:16] I mean, over the last few weeks we've enjoyed the Olympics and the power of Olympics and

[00:11:21] yet one of the things that stood out for me was that the Olympic committee they're holding their first

[00:11:26] e-sports games start in next year. Which seems to be a bit of a nod that the industry needs to

[00:11:31] needs the younger audience now or more into e-sports, etc. And obviously as I'll say you've recently

[00:11:37] attended Gamescom and Devcom, so I'm curious, based on everything that you're seeing at these events

[00:11:42] and everything you're seeing in the industry. What are the most extra intraments that you're seeing

[00:11:46] shaping the video game industry right now? That's a really good question. We discuss the latest

[00:11:53] trends and developments impacting the video game industry, almost in the daily basis, very

[00:11:58] much, it was in the front and centre of the games, calm and the death calm discussions we have.

[00:12:04] We're since substantial growth, potentially in the cloud gaming sector and we're exploring ways

[00:12:09] to enhance our offerings to accommodate into that space. And also the through the vibrant

[00:12:17] indie development community that we sit and store at Gamescom, it's highlight to the points

[00:12:22] of strengthening our partnerships with smaller developers and studios. And as a consequence of

[00:12:28] the realignment that has happened in the marketplace, there's been a huge growth in smaller developers

[00:12:34] and smaller studios that have grown out of huge organisations. So we're seeing a lot more

[00:12:43] creativity at a baseline level coming into the market providing more content, providing more opportunities.

[00:12:50] But also providing more capabilities for us to provide them with a roadmap of how to get

[00:12:57] share of how to get their products to market and also make money. There's ultimately a

[00:13:02] investment that's going to be able to fulfil the needs of their partners and fulfil the needs

[00:13:09] of their own developer aspirations. We need to show them how to work together to be able to do that.

[00:13:17] So we continue to tailor monetization and distribution solutions through them and

[00:13:23] marking ourselves as the go-to platform and providing the health and handling it, just

[00:13:32] continue to be more competitive as time goes on.

[00:13:38] Yeah, a big shout out to indie developers out there, the game big fancens today is a

[00:13:44] Jeff the Yak mint back in my childhood to play and one of the games are playing in the

[00:13:50] moment still wakes the deep is like this survival horror game set in a spot I saw you'll

[00:13:54] rig in the 70s just an amazing game. But first forward now though, I mean, the EU's digital

[00:14:01] markets act, it also seems set to impact digital distribution platforms and app stores significantly.

[00:14:08] So what implications do you see a legislation like that having on both developers and publishers

[00:14:13] particularly in the Europe? I hope the positive one. I'm really have

[00:14:20] real keen optimism for what the DMA can bring allowing gang developers and publishers in

[00:14:26] the area to diversify their revenue streams away from major app stores. I think it's strict

[00:14:32] anti-steering those about legislation, which has always altered investigations against the big

[00:14:38] the big guys. Means gatekeepers weren't able to prevent third parties from into operating with

[00:14:45] the gatekeeper services and you speak to any developer or any game publisher that the

[00:14:51] mantra they're all talking about now is, how do we get to direct a consumer? How do we show our

[00:14:57] products our services to that community? Because ultimately you need to build a sustainable

[00:15:04] repeatable business plan and if you don't even know if your customers are it's really how to

[00:15:08] do that. So I'm hoping that the DMA will allow for more transparent environment to provide

[00:15:16] the people are really doing all the heavy lifting in this marketplace to be able to exist in a

[00:15:23] more open and a more competitive space to be on. Developers are, and probably sure as

[00:15:31] I were able to go down more avenues in the future is what my opits to maximize their revenues

[00:15:37] and have the ability to link web shops into app stores, posting apps on their own websites,

[00:15:44] without need to pay the hefty 27% commission rates. This is my hope for the DMA,

[00:15:52] it's going to take time to add a lot of that marketplace to really open up and to for that

[00:16:00] kind of transparency to be there but we are making no right moves. We are very, very supportive as an

[00:16:08] organization of the DMA. We work closely with you, and a lot of the other

[00:16:13] many federations across all of Europe, to ensure that the transparency is there.

[00:16:22] Also I'd like to mention a great precaution of the earnings which I think this transparency will

[00:16:27] allow them to be able to do so that they can reinvest in their future growth.

[00:16:33] But without that transparency, with that that offering that going to what you need

[00:16:38] doing in a marketplace where you need to do it, it will be really tricky. So the sooner the DMA

[00:16:45] it's and becomes 100% effective, the sooner we will start taking better value from the marketplace.

[00:16:53] And I know it's early days but do you think those provisions for gatekeepers? Do you think

[00:16:57] that will help level the playing field for smaller game developers and those are indie publishers

[00:17:02] in the industry that are so important. They'll industry, they're the foundations of the island.

[00:17:09] Yeah very much so building on the point I just mentioned some of the benefits that will

[00:17:14] relevant to smaller developers and indie publishers such as the Equal Treatment Insurgeon

[00:17:20] Discovery and Alvarado giving smaller publishers a better chance of visibility with that

[00:17:29] seen that as a real barrier that has literally destroyed games from day one because of their

[00:17:39] ability to not have that. There's a not been able to react with the algorithm in a way that

[00:17:45] is self-satisfying. I think at least point is extensive, the prevention of self- and pre-fixing.

[00:17:52] Many smaller developers won't be overshadowed by big in-house titles and in certain

[00:17:59] times some of these larger gatekeepers. Really focus on a sort of 90-10 factor when 10% of

[00:18:07] the games are bringing 90% to the revenue. So it's really hard for new brands, do games to

[00:18:14] break through because they've not only got to get the share of voice right but they've also got to

[00:18:19] break through the demands of the revenues that are being proportioned towards and other

[00:18:25] more successful games that have had a longer establishment and a longer-established market

[00:18:30] print from it and presidents. I think there's also a point of data portability, the DMA show

[00:18:39] looks to it out, users are more easily transferred their data such as gaming profiles between platforms,

[00:18:48] reducing lock-in, affect the benefits with larger companies, players being more willing to try new

[00:18:55] platforms without the risk of losing their pro-versal purchases. That should and will benefit

[00:19:02] smaller developers. But there's a ways to go to be able to get to that point but that's the vision

[00:19:09] that the DMA, I think, can deliver and should deliver and remember I'm using well that we've got

[00:19:15] new launches with the DMA with the DMA, there is from a European point of view we have a very

[00:19:22] situation here in the new place. There will be always regional specifics that again they'll

[00:19:28] have to be taken into considerations for the DMA which will make it more complex and make it more

[00:19:34] challenging but nevertheless those goals that I've outlined certainly seem to be, I think the most

[00:19:41] important things that the DMA needs to achieve. 100% with you on there. Another thing I wanted to highlight

[00:19:48] of course was Zalo recently released it's summer 2024 edition of the report, The State of Play.

[00:19:56] So can you give me some insights into some of the key findings in there? What they mean for the

[00:20:00] future of the video game industry? Any big surprises in there? Anything surprise you? Any

[00:20:06] big insights that stood out to you from that? Well I mean, sadly we all know the

[00:20:12] end of the game development is rapidly expanding as I alluded before or almost a consequence of

[00:20:17] the market realignment as Adity to that. But these titles capturing a large market share of the

[00:20:24] market they're never before is certainly something that we should be as an organisation focused on,

[00:20:30] especially in the post the MA landscape wide diverse revenue stream should mean even more success

[00:20:35] or indie titles. So that is a beat up from where I would have thought the market would have

[00:20:43] already got to so I'm seeing those kind of changes in the market as very positive. I think the

[00:20:50] report touched on the importance of a loop to the influence of marketing with platforms such as twitch

[00:20:56] becoming more essential for reaching audiences. Don't think Zalo has we aptitude with its own

[00:21:02] XBM product. But I think giving the access as we try to do to induce an app partners so that they

[00:21:10] can get the share of voice and XPN gives access to 1.4 billion eyeballs of influences. That's the

[00:21:18] kind of support that that market needs, that's the kind of support that will leave hands,

[00:21:24] their capabilities and we're very keen to make sure that although and we provide multiple

[00:21:29] monetization solutions, we also streamline against those the opportunity to enhance their capabilities

[00:21:37] as well. So with our suite of offerings they are always aim towards making the app

[00:21:44] as successful in any one way we can. I think possibly one of the prizes is that the mobile

[00:21:52] gaming continues to surge and supported by the increase of cash flow transaction, the digital

[00:21:58] wallets. The report I think reduces the global cash flow volumes will grow over 80% between

[00:22:06] 20 and 25. That surprised me, I've got to say but that is a trend that is likely to become

[00:22:14] only more pronounced in the future or pronounced in the future and I think that that surge

[00:22:20] will continue in surge in mobile gaming is it just seems to be endless. I mean I had conversations

[00:22:28] today about the opportunity in Africa where you've got a attachment rate and across the whole

[00:22:34] of that continent, I think it's 82%. So that as that became that market becomes more contained within

[00:22:43] the community of gaming, that will continue to surge on mobile gaming to be honest. I think

[00:22:51] on a final note for my memory with the report there's a huge increase in investment in

[00:22:58] early stage gaming started as well. I think it's over a quarter of a billion dollars committed

[00:23:05] in 2124 alone. At this end of the course the growth in confidence, the potential of new

[00:23:12] and innovative gaming projects and the willingness for the media centric investors who invest

[00:23:21] in this growing media landscape. I mean everybody knows that gaming is already bigger than

[00:23:28] movies, music, TV, combined and will continue to surge at and I think new brick dogs will be

[00:23:36] broken when the new GTA hits the marketplace as a as a as a media phenomenon.

[00:23:43] So it just can see there are no real real surprises other than the fact that this market continues

[00:23:50] to grow, continues to evolve and continues to blow up in the most positive ways as this

[00:23:57] really becomes a mainstream media entertainment phenomenon. And I'm fully in support of that

[00:24:06] and everything we do it this all goes to support that as well. And of course the gaming industry

[00:24:11] is constantly evolving and that thriving indie movement that you mentioned as a great example

[00:24:16] of that combined with 1.4 billion eyeballs of influence, incredibly nice problem to help. So

[00:24:23] are you adopting to this changing landscape and what kind of strategies are you implementing

[00:24:27] to stay ahead of some of these emerging trends which probably brings challenges as well as

[00:24:32] opportunities are really emerging. As always to be honest, I think relying on the my knowledge

[00:24:38] and experience over the years I've constantly learnt to adapt and to change to the markets needs

[00:24:46] and the EMA team now we've taken on a strategy of hiring developer relationships in a number

[00:24:53] of our key territories. And we're really intent to build these stunt foundations in the EDC,

[00:24:59] connecting developers themselves as frequently as possible. Ultimately, individuals developing

[00:25:06] games are that ones we are driving the trends in gaming and the indie development gaming

[00:25:13] scenes increasingly making a substantial impact. I think indie games now come for nearly a third

[00:25:19] of all streaming revenues. So the remit of the developer relationships is basically to make sure

[00:25:27] that they are in no territory in touch with all indie development teams, personalities,

[00:25:35] understanding what the needs of their individual businesses are like because everyone's got

[00:25:39] a bespoke solution that's required and then to make sure that we are fulfilling the needs of that

[00:25:46] we have for solutions we have. Our product team is constantly working to stay ahead of those trends,

[00:25:53] developing new tools that may aid partners or prospects in this of the future. So making sure

[00:25:59] that we are understanding of the needs and making sure that we have close touch points with that

[00:26:05] community is key to our future offering and to our future success. So one of the things I was

[00:26:12] trying to do at the end of a podcast is give a people listening a valuable takeaway. Now,

[00:26:17] as someone deeply involved in the business side of gaming, what advice would you give to any

[00:26:22] developers or publishers listening that maybe looking to navigate some of the complexities of

[00:26:28] global game distribution and monetization, especially in light of new regulations like the DMA that

[00:26:33] we talked about a few moments ago. Any tips or advice that you would offer around them?

[00:26:39] I think firstly, be committed. This is a fabulous industry, a lot of fun but it does take commitment

[00:26:46] to make sure that you can journey through it. But I guess my advice would be to take advantage

[00:26:52] of the potential of new revenue springs as much as you can. Explore direct to consumer business

[00:26:59] dollars as I leave the report as they as a way to protect middlemen and maximize your earnings

[00:27:04] and enable them to reimburse that money back into your own titles. So basically being charged

[00:27:10] of our own destiny, particularly when monetization is concerned. I think there's a real opportunity

[00:27:17] for business of gaming to be put back in the hands of gamers and I would encourage developers

[00:27:23] and publishers alike to spend time exploring how the DMA specifically impacts them as individuals

[00:27:30] and how it can be used to benefit their business. And the knowledgeable be smart and then apply

[00:27:38] that knowledge to what it means for you. So everything and my advice is all about making sure

[00:27:44] you take the power back and you operate in a way that the market is investing value for you.

[00:27:52] Fantastic advice, I'm a beautiful moment to end the podcast on today. We're before I do

[00:27:57] we started the show today talking about your origin story that's seen you go everywhere from

[00:28:02] Sony PlayStation to Warner Brothers and Zala now. So none of us are able to achieve any degree

[00:28:08] of success without a little help along the way, very often there's a particular person,

[00:28:12] maybe we're grateful towards maybe they just saw something in his very early days. But who would

[00:28:17] that person be and why? Let's give them a little shout out to the. Some mayors only want

[00:28:22] guy in my life that has really been not only a close friend but a mentor, mental for me through

[00:28:29] my last 20 years and he really I didn't if you've seen the film Jerry McWyer but he is my ambassador

[00:28:35] of Chrome and the guy that's really helped me transition through all of them. My career point see

[00:28:42] it's Steve Race was the is the upstairs robot and Reebok. He was the founding clan guide for

[00:28:50] the CEO of PlayStation. He wrote the game, the game plan for PlayStation and we had a very interesting

[00:28:58] kickoff point where I was working for an organization with in PlayStation and presenting two

[00:29:04] hands and three big personalities at the industry at that time which has barely stolen

[00:29:10] and then Angelo Pasini who pretty much ran the game me through North America and I presented

[00:29:17] what I thought was a great presentation and he destroyed me and afterwards I thought what if

[00:29:25] I don't wrong there? What I thought that was pretty good. He came up afterwards and I apologize for

[00:29:31] that but he said that he was not doing it for my benefit, he was doing it for an eternal political

[00:29:37] benefit, the guy's the guide that I'd work for. Sometimes you can get caught up in the crossfire.

[00:29:44] It's the big word of politics in corporate to be honest but at the same time from that very

[00:29:51] foundation point we grew a friendship and a relationship of many years that have seen

[00:29:59] seen me invest in his own son business. As a five-fifth I was grown a business that we invested in

[00:30:07] from literally nothing to doing 13 million dollars worth to turn over year so not only is he my

[00:30:13] mentor he's been a close friend and he couldn't have been born out of a more

[00:30:18] more stranger circumstance to begin with but I'm very grateful for that relationship and very

[00:30:24] grateful as of today for his friendship as well. With a great story and I just love how it all

[00:30:30] came together now. I was so in deputy almost but anyone listening to spot in the find out more

[00:30:37] information about anything we talked about today with reference to the report and some of the

[00:30:43] you like to point everyone listening. Certainly time website and I think that's the everything

[00:30:48] that you need to understand about what we do our solutions. You go to our website zoola.com

[00:30:55] everything is a starting point there if you have any information that you want to do on a European

[00:31:01] EMEA basis by all means reach out to me, reach out to me, I'm going to always happy to have a conversation

[00:31:07] and refer to where they are. I really enjoy talking to developers on what they need to their businesses

[00:31:16] are so by all means start with the zoola.com figure out from there and if you really want to understand

[00:31:22] what's going on in Europe, pick me up and link to it always happy to help. Fantastic I'll add links

[00:31:28] to everything so people can find everything nice and easily there we covered a lot in our

[00:31:37] industry following your time at Gamescom and Devcom and the implications of the EU's digital

[00:31:43] markets act on the video game industry and also how it's how you as a commerce company,

[00:31:49] helping Game Developers publish, fund, market launch and monetize their games globally.

[00:31:54] We could have chat for another hour on this just about the games themselves but thank you so much

[00:31:59] for showing your story today. My pleasure I really appreciate you taking the time real. Thank you

[00:32:07] it was very easy to talk to you about and I think we covered a lot of ground and I hope

[00:32:12] it'll create values to the people listening to your accent podcast. So what will the gaming industry

[00:32:17] look like as regulations evolve and indie developers gain more traction in the market place

[00:32:23] and again quick shout out to those indie developers and today I think my guess gave us valuable

[00:32:28] insights into the challenges and most importantly opportunities facing developers as they navigate

[00:32:35] changing landscape driven by new trends from cloud gaming and the impact of EU's digital market

[00:32:41] act. I think as we've heard smaller developers may soon have more opportunities to thrive

[00:32:49] with fewer barriers or more direct routes to consumers and this has to be something to celebrate.

[00:32:55] But I'd love to hear your thoughts on here if you're an indie developer if you're working the

[00:32:58] gaming industry please give me a shout. TechBlogwriter, outlook.com can act when we on Twitter,

[00:33:03] LinkedIn, Instagram just at Neil Seahuse. Let me know how you see the future of gaming

[00:33:09] evolving with all these new changes on the horizon but I'm afraid it's game over. Yes that's it

[00:33:15] we're out of credits it's time for me to get out here. I've stolen far too much of your time for one

[00:33:21] day but if you still want more don't worry I'm going to be back same time tomorrow but hopefully

[00:33:26] you'll join me again and that's it for now so speak with you all. So bye for now.