3039: Unlocking Ocean Secrets: How Geo-Data is Shaping Climate Solution

[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Quick question for you all, how can the hidden depths of our oceans hold the key to tackling

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: climate change?

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Well today we're going to dive deep into this very question and there's some exciting

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_00]: stats around this as well.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_00]: My guest today is at the forefront of this very mission.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_00]: His name's Robert Hodenback and he's a global director for climate and nature at

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_00]: a company called Fugro.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to talk about the crucial role that Geo-Data plays in understanding and

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: preserving our planet's most vital ecosystem.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: With 60 years of expertise and a global team of 12,000 people, Fugro has been instrumental

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_00]: in collecting and analysing comprehensive Geo-Data that supports industries across the world.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But now they're turning their focus towards one of the most pressing challenges of our

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: time, climate change, particularly in ocean environments.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, despite covering 70% of our planet, only 25% of the ocean has actually been mapped.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_00]: How mind-boggling is that stat alone?

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think this leaves a significant gap in our understanding of these critical areas.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_00]: We're all looking up to the skies and exploring to Mars and beyond.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_00]: But the fact that only 25% of our planet, of our oceans are mapped and that they take up

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_00]: 70% of our planet must have been I struggle to get my head around that fact.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So today Robert is going to share his insights into how Fugro is addressing this knowledge

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_00]: gap and why it's essential for global climate science.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll also discuss the importance of public-private partnerships in scaling

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_00]: these efforts and learning more about how data sharing can accelerate solutions to the

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_00]: environmental challenges that we face.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But what does it take to balance commercial objectives with environmental stewardship?

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So as we navigate through these complex topics, we will also uncover how technological innovations

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_00]: like Geo-Data, like AI and machine learning are collectively shaping the future of ocean

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: health and climate resilience.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And find out if we really are doing enough to protect the unseen realms of our planet

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and what more can be done.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Reaching listeners in 165 countries every day is testament to the unwavering support

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[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Now is the moment you've really been waiting for.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's time to get today's guests on.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So a massive warm welcome to the show.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks Neil and thank you for having me here.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Robert Holden, boss.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the global director for climate and nature for Fugro.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Fugro is a geodata company, which means when you build something, you design

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: something, you maintain something on Earth that we provide the data to do that in

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: safe and sustainable manner.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's geotechnical data, geophysical, geodata data, everything that pertains

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: to the surface and the subsurface of the Earth, both on the land and the seaside.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Building offshore wind farms, ice bed rails or nuclear plants.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And nowadays we do that with 12,000 people and we've been building up our

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: expertise in technology over the last six years.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_01]: We are also a company in transition, decades of mapping the oceans.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We also see now the opportunity and the contribution that we can deliver to

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: climate and nature related applications of our expertise.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: But there we're focused mostly on water.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's about flooding, because resilience, ocean health, that's where our strength lies.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I made it personal.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a mapmaker by trade.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I've led mapmaking businesses for the last two decades to support energy

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: transition, but now also the adaptation to climate change.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And if I look at my first projects, which were 23 years ago in the ocean,

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I really saw firsthand how we mapmaker supply or knowledge really to explore,

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_01]: but also to exploit nature.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think in those days, certainly nature was an obstacle for progress.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you look at it now, we came a long way.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm really happy that Fugro and myself as well can really put

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_01]: our technology to global challenges like climate change or nature preservation.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the reasons I was excited to get you on the podcast today

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_00]: is when I was doing a little research on you guys, what put you on my radar?

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I was at the forefront of geodata collection and analysis.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm curious how has this data been utilized to address things like climate change

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and what role do you see it playing in that broader fight against environmental degradation?

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree with a good question.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And as I said, we've been around for quite a long time.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_01]: We were founded in 1962 as a Dutch engineer firm very soon already or early already,

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: focusing on water management as the Dutch are famous for.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think in climate change in general, what you see is that

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: we do understand it on a high conceptual level.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_01]: But when it's about, for example, oceans, there's still a lot to understand

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: about the interdependencies of climate nature, heat absorption, CO2,

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_01]: the secretion currents, all those different systems.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And the importance of geodata and understanding that in the ocean

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_01]: or understanding currents or ocean parameters in general

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_01]: or how coastlines change cannot be underestimated.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: You see over the years satellite imagery and data in general

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: has become very much important for answering that question.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's multi-skilled.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So to be able to mitigate and adapt to climate change locally,

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: you need very high quality information to inform decision making and engineering.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And we've been doing that for a long time.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: We've been doing that mostly to support the planning and build

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and maintain maintenance of infrastructure.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: But in doing that, we geared up a lot of knowledge around the natural environment.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we are currently applying to full scale.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I love a good start on this podcast.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And despite the majority of the world being underwater,

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I think and despite significant advances in technology,

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: only 25 percent of the ocean has actually been mapped, which is just astounding.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: What challenges do you see associated with ocean mapping

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and someone right in the heart of this space?

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And how are you overcoming these obstacles?

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we keep talking about exploring space,

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: but there's so much that's unexplored and unknown right here on Earth, right?

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And then certainly people typically do make that link to space

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and to Mars and the fact that the oceans are less mapped than Mars is actually.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And I see as you go to conferences, you see a lot of ocean experts

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_01]: that they demand the fact that there's a lack of,

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_01]: there seems to be a lack of interest for oceans.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think to the degree that's at the heart of the problem

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_01]: another underappreciation of the importance of oceans in general

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: for us as humankind, but also specifically to the promise

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_01]: of climate change and nature preservation.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Funny thing is, I mean, we might be interested to find Martians on Mars,

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: but actually the real aliens are in the depths of the oceans.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we know so little about them and about their role

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_01]: to play in our ecosystem.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So what we do appreciate, though, more and more, I think,

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_01]: is that our planetary tendencies are linked to the ocean.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: The solutions actually lie there as well.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And what we do know, and just to run a few stats,

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: 90 percent of the heat is being absorbed by the oceans,

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: 25 to 30 percent approximately of CO2 is being sequestered by the oceans.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But with that, also new problems arise.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's a solution on the one hand,

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_01]: the ocean is actually a buffer for the problems that are created.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But it also becomes a problem in itself.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_01]: 90 percent of our ecosystem is in the oceans.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And actually that ecosystem seems to be harmed by the fact

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: that the oceans are warming, for example.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And to understand this, I think we...

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And to use responsibly the ocean as a resource,

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_01]: we need to understand more of the ocean.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: We need to map more of the ocean in all parameters.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: If it's about really the mapping of the ocean floor

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: or the constitution or the parameters in the ocean,

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: it's important to keep using the ocean as a resource.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think about three billion people in the world

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_01]: are dependent on the oceans.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I understood that 20 percent of our protein is coming

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: via our aquaculture or fisheries.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So those are reasons why we need to understand, to care for

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and to make sure that we use the ocean in sustainable matter.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Or more mundane reasons are, for example,

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_01]: the onset of AI and obviously the need for more internet traffic

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: or more data traffic in general means very practically

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_01]: you need more cables.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And you need to lay those cables.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_01]: You need to understand that if you're not laying those cables

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_01]: over a full cane like a sea mount,

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_01]: that is as big as the Mount Everest.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So those are the more mundane questions

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_01]: that we're answering by mapping the full ocean.

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And something I think we've got to talk about as well

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_00]: is the sharing of privately owned science data

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: is often a very sensitive topic throughout the community.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So what are the key barriers to data sharing

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and how can the industry move towards

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe a more open access to benefit global environmental efforts?

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe just to roll back that question a little bit.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's important to understand also why it's important

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_01]: in general conceptually to share data.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And what you see is that we live in a highly specialized world.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But the problems that we're addressing,

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: actually they're asking for many different disciplines

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and both for specialization but also for an holistic overview.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And fundamentally, you have to share information

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and knowledge and expertise to be able to deal with that.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think if you look at traditional industries,

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_01]: also the industries that we traditionally have worked in

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and I worked in firstly,

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: it has always been relatively transactional.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It was quite clear what a client or a problem holder would need

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and we would deliver that.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas here it's not always clear what the problem is.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_01]: We're still exploring that.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So sharing is important

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and Fugro has been doing that for quite a bit of time

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and maybe a nice anecdote is that we were the first party

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_01]: searching for the MH370,

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I think more than a decade ago now,

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_01]: in the Indian Ocean and we covered by searching for it

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and unfortunately not finding it,

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: 120,000 square kilometers of sea floor

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and one of the most extreme terrain possibly.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It would be, you could consider that like an inverted Himalayas.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_01]: The data did not go to waste as the data was actually

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01]: given to a foundation called Siba 2030

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: that is focused on mapping the ocean before 2030.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So we're a contributor to that,

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_01]: so we contributed that data, it was actually the start of it

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and after that we started contributing data

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: in transit of our vessels

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and we started also getting involved with the ocean decades

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_01]: for ocean size.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a UNESCO IOC initiative

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_01]: where they're trying to build all kinds of initiatives

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: for academics to work together

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and we are contributing to the data coordination group,

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: really focus on getting private partners

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: to contribute their data, to share their data

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: with the academic community

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_01]: because a lot of data certainly pertaining to the oceans

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: has been held by private companies

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and this is their chance to actually contribute

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_01]: to the larger size of issues that we're dealing with.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And public private partnerships

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: are increasingly being seen as vital

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: in addressing these global challenges.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything else you can share

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: around the importance of those collaborations in your work

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and you've probably unable to share any names or anything

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: but are there any examples of successful partnerships

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: that you've been involved in

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_00]: that you're able to discuss to that?

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So first of all, I think PPP

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and so public private partnerships,

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I always thought it was quite a boring topic

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and then I became actually

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: become one of my favorite topics

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and then it has to do with what I said earlier

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: how before business was quite transactional

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: whereas if you look at the type of challenges

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_01]: we're trying to deal with here

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_01]: adaptation to climate change or the preservation of nature

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_01]: it actually asked for the sharing of data

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_01]: but it also asked for that collaboration.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think what we learned in FIRO as well

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_01]: is how important it is to take a holistic view,

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_01]: to take initiatives, to bring groups together

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and to eventually look at the interests

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_01]: of the different stakeholders involved

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and then I think they call it something like

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: for drop or haylicks

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_01]: where you take the governmental sector

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_01]: you take NGOs representing the civil interests

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_01]: you take academics, you take the private sector together

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and you look at the problem

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and you look at each other's objectives

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_01]: that you have for the problem

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_01]: where governments also obviously want to make sure

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that there's a fair distribution

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: to the public of information that's been gathered

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_01]: there's regulation being set up

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and policies being set up,

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_01]: academics they want to push their fundamental research

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and further their fundamental research

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think what is extremely important

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_01]: that's the story I tell a lot at conferences

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_01]: is what the private sector can bring.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So when you look at dealing with these kind of big challenges

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_01]: it's extremely important that you find a way

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_01]: to deploy technology at scale, to replicate it

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and this is how you create impact

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and this is specifically where the private sector has gone

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and this is what we bring to the table

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think examples of successful public private partnerships

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01]: are projects that we do

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_01]: where we were able to build scope

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_01]: together with our clients

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: with different stakeholders

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_01]: then obviously go through procurement process

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and eventually we're able to execute the work.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_01]: One example I can talk about

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_01]: is a project that we're currently executing

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_01]: around Italy

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_01]: where the Italian government took quite a bold decision

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_01]: to allocate 400 million

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_01]: to understand their full ecosystem in their coastal zone

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and the reason why they spent that much money

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: is because they appreciate and understand

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: the importance of mapping that coastal zone

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_01]: for their blue economy, for their fisheries

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: for their tourism, for the protection of their coast

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_01]: for the protection of their environment

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and the way that in environment

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: they will lose out on a lot of economic benefits

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_01]: so this is where you see

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_01]: actually economic sustained mechanisms

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: meeting climate and nature related topics

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's a great example where we were able to

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_01]: or we are able to deploy the cutting edge technology

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that we have to map, model and monitor the environment

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and then over time

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: let's the Italian institutions

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_01]: make informed decisions about their future.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And with the Earth's surface

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and indeed subservice environment

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: being critical to so many different industries

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious how do you for grow

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: ensure that data is collected

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: but ultimately used to promote sustainability

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and indeed safety through those sectors

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_00]: anything you can share around that today?

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah so we are geodata experts

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_01]: in principle we apply our technologies

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and services to a very broad range of services

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think in the past which you saw

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm talking about 15 years ago

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of the demand was actually coming from

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_01]: the fossil fuel industry

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think what we've seen changing over time

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: is that demand is moving towards

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_01]: where we really want to work

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and so this is in the energy transition

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_01]: towards offshore wind farms

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_01]: it's in climate and nature

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_01]: this is sustainable infrastructure

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and what we see is that our clients

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and the different stakeholders involved

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_01]: are getting more conscious about it

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and also regulation is getting better

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_01]: so in that sense we are contributing

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_01]: but we're also riding the wave of sustainability

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_01]: we have in our company

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: we have quite a clear policy

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_01]: of looking at dilemmas

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: things like for example deep sea mining

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_01]: how do you deal with that?

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean we would have technologies to support that

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_01]: but do we want to support that?

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So we are thinking through this

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: while we're also realistic about the fact

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_01]: that as a company you need

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to support the energy transition in all its facets

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And given the urgency of climate change

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and everything that we're talking about here

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_00]: are there any other technological innovations

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_00]: that you see that are most promising

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_00]: on accelerating the collection

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and analysis of geo data

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: to inform better decision making?

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_00]: We have a lot of data driven decision making

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_00]: inside businesses

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_00]: but it'd be great to hear more

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_00]: about something that could actually make

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_00]: a huge impact on the planet

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: the way we all share our home

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah of course

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and then I think it starts with

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_01]: making sure that you collect the right data

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_01]: which you see obviously is that

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_01]: we traditionally as well

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_01]: we collect a lot of data

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and then you quite quickly get into

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_01]: how do you extract insights from the data

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and the use of AI

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_01]: machine learning, deep learning

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_01]: has been part and parcel

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_01]: of what we've been doing for the last 10 years

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and we've elaborated on that

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and we've become quite proficient

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_01]: in making sure that we get the right insights

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_01]: out of the fast data that we acquire

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's that element of it

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_01]: There's the element of making sure

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_01]: that you are able to fuse

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and combine different data source

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_01]: so you're not looking at problems

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_01]: in tunnel vision

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_01]: but you really look at the broad spectrum

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_01]: of technology that you can use

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And we have a very broad spectrum

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_01]: as it could be from a hyperspectral

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_01]: to imagery, to light

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_01]: to all kinds of technology

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and we're agnostic in that sense

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_01]: because we have such a big portfolio

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and when we don't have it

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_01]: we will not pitch and hoist to free-brow services

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_01]: but we will look at partners

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and we will work with partners

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_01]: to find the right solution

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So on the one hand

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01]: it's about just the crunching of data

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It's about the fusion of data

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: which is extremely important

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_01]: to get the most synergies

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_01]: out of different data sources

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and that goes a lot in collaboration

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_01]: also with academics

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_01]: but then probably most important

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_01]: is not the technology element

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It's more about really understanding

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_01]: what kind of insights do you need

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_01]: to get from that geodata

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And we are, just to be honest

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_01]: we're a geodata expert

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: so we don't, we're not climate experts

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_01]: or we're not infrastructural experts

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_01]: obviously we employ those

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_01]: but in general we are focused

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_01]: on the geodata

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So we need to work together

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_01]: to really understand

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_01]: what these problem holders are

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_01]: the people that really made decisions

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_01]: or get the data to

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_01]: essentially engineer something

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: need

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things I love about

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: what you're doing here

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_00]: is this emphasis on building a safer

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and more livable world

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm curious

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: how do you balance commercial objectives

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_00]: with that imperative to protect

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and preserve our planet

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: particularly in, let's say,

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_00]: marine environments

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's not a dilemma

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_01]: it's not a challenge

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and this is really the concept

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: of creating shared value

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_01]: as they call it

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01]: This is really looking at

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: what are the interests

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And what, it's more

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a redefinition

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_01]: of what value is

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and value is not only shareholder value

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Value comes from multiple sources

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_01]: from multiple hectares

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: around the project that we execute

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think what we're trying

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_01]: probably in the company

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_01]: to really look at all those actors

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and make sure that

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: all actors involved

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: do get the value out of it

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's really that

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: change from transactional

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_01]: to a more

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01]: how do you say that

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: long-term engagement

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: with your clients

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_01]: because on the long term

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: hey, if you make sure

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_01]: that your clients

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and the other stakeholders

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: get value out of it

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: you will get return on business

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we're after

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_01]: essentially

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're not

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not defying the fact

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: that we need to make profit

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and we need to make money

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and we will

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_01]: but we will do it in a way

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: that everyone

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: or at least the main actors

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_01]: benefit from it

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So looking ahead

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: what do you think

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_00]: are the most pressing

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00]: geo data needs

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_00]: to support the health of our oceans

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and how are you

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and your expertise

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00]: contributing to

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: meeting some of these challenges?

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so what you see is

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_01]: that

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: so

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: off my title

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and what I'm focusing on

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_01]: is climate and nature

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: because you see that

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: very much linked

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to the climate question

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: is the natural question

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And when you talk about

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: for example

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: adaptation to climate change

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: for example

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: of the coast

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_01]: where 40% of the people

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: live near to

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's most vulnerable

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I think of our

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_01]: habitats

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You look at

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: typically at

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_01]: nature-based solutions

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and then you look

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: at the quality

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_01]: of those nature-based solutions

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_01]: look at mangroves

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_01]: look at sea grass

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and we need to make sure that

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_01]: actually

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_01]: we understand the variables

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: to mitigate climate change

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: but that's relatively simple

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_01]: it's quite dimensional

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a CO2

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_01]: is quite a simple

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: parameter

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: but then

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_01]: if you look at

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_01]: biodiversity

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_01]: it becomes extremely complex

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_01]: what is goodbye diversity

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't say that

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: but there are so many

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: parameters

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: that you put

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_01]: map and measure

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and monitor

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I know

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: we're scratching the surface

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_01]: so what we're looking for

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_01]: from a technology point of view

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_01]: is better ways

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_01]: to map at scale

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and you already see

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of technology

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_01]: that can do it

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: in detail

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: for example

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: with diverse

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and when you look at

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_01]: for reefs

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: or you look at

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: biodiversity subsurface

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_01]: on the water

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_01]: but our question is always

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: how do we scale it

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: how do we create impact

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_01]: because

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_01]: a diver

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: is nice for small area

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_01]: but you can't

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: scale it to a full

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_01]: marine protected area

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: so that's what we're looking at

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_01]: so scaling technology

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_01]: is one of the things

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_01]: that we're focusing on

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_01]: but also finding new ways

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: to sense

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_01]: the quality

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_01]: of biodiversity

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: well I cannot thank you enough

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: for coming on today

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and sharing your insights

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: but before I let you go

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to have a little fun with you now

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and see if you can leave

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: one final gift

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: for everyone listening

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's contribute a song

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: to our Spotify playlist

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't mind what you had

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_00]: guilty pleasures are allowed

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: but

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: what would you like to add

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and why?

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah so

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: so I thought about that

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and so over the weekend

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Nick Cave

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and the bed sheets

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_01]: they released their new album

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Wild God

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_01]: which is highly recommended

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and typically you would say

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Nick Cave is a bit on the

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: more depressing side

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_01]: of the spectrum

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: in his kind of music

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: but you do see

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_01]: that there's quite some joy actually

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: cycling through his music

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and this album

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think it's a good metaphor

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_01]: for what we're dealing with

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_01]: with climate change

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean there's a lot of gloom and doom

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_01]: but then if you look at the

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_01]: effort that a lot of people are

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_01]: putting into it

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: technology that's applied

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: the scalability of the technology

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_01]: actually there is

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a silver lining

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_01]: there's light on the horizon

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_01]: listening to Nick Cave

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: in general is just a good

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_01]: usual time

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and what's the standard track

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_00]: for that album for you?

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I think actually the title track

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Wild God that has been

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_01]: circling around already for

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: a few months

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_01]: is excellent

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: but there's

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_01]: plenty more nuggets in there

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah there really is

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll get that added to our spot

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_00]: in fire playlist

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and anybody listening

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_00]: just wanting to find that more

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_00]: about everything we talked about

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_00]: today and your work

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe if they will want to contact

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_00]: you or your team

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_00]: where would you like to point

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_00]: everyone listening?

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Please link to us on

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01]: LinkedIn

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_01]: obviously

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_01]: that's why we will have the most

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_01]: media outlets

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_01]: for what we're doing

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_00]: so please link to us

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Well so much we covered there

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_00]: in minutes from the role of

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_00]: geodata

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_00]: in the fight against climate

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_00]: change

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_00]: the need to acquire

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_00]: more ocean data

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_00]: with the sea only

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: being around 25% mapped

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_00]: which is just a phenomenal start

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and also the important role

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_00]: of public private partnerships

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and technology

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that together can

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_00]: better protect our planet

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_00]: so many big talking points

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: love to hear what the listeners

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_00]: think of this one

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_00]: but more than anything

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_00]: just thank you for bringing

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_00]: this conversation into life today

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you Neil, thanks for having me

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Now as we close today's episode

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm left with this

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_00]: profound understanding

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_00]: of the ocean's role in our climate

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and also

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_00]: the vast opportunities

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that lie in mapping it

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and protecting it

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and my guests today

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: illuminate a

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_00]: the crucial need for geodata

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_00]: in addressing climate change

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_00]: particularly in areas

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_00]: that are still largely unexplored

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think Robert's insights

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: into balancing commercial success

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_00]: with environmental responsibility

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_00]: almost offer a blueprint

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_00]: for how companies can contribute

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_00]: to societal challenges

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_00]: all while achieving their own goals

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and the technologies driving

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_00]: these advancements

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_00]: from AI to data fusion

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_00]: are opening up new frontiers

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_00]: in our ability to understand

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and protect the ocean's

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_00]: delicate ecosystems

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_00]: but as we think about the future

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's clear that

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_00]: the health of our oceans

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_00]: is intricately linked

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_00]: to the health of our planet

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_00]: so how will the innovations

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and strategies discussed today

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_00]: shape the next chapter

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_00]: in our fight against climate change

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and what role can each

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and every one of us play

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_00]: in supporting these efforts

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_00]: these are just a few other questions

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_00]: we can explore together

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_00]: remember email me tech blog

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_00]: writer outlook.com

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Twitter Instagram

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: just at Neil C Hughes

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_00]: look to hear from me on this

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_00]: but as always

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_00]: thank you for joining me

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: on this journey

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_00]: beneath the waves today

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and until next time

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_00]: keep questioning

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_00]: keep exploring

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_00]: but more importantly of all

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: work together

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_00]: in creating a more sustainable future

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: speak with you all

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_00]: bright and early tomorrow

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: bye for now