3063: From AI to Data Marketplaces: Peko Wan on What's Next for Pundi X

[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever wondered how crypto payments are making their way into physical retail outlets?

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, my guest today is going to be sharing their mission, making crypto payments as easy as the swipe of a credit card.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_01]: My guest name is Peko Wan, co-CEO of a company called Pundi X.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I want to learn more about how they're leveraging AI to enhance payment experiences and also some of the groundbreaking ways that they're helping developing countries

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_01]: adopt and adapt to crypto.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So whether it's managing liquidity pools with AI or launching a new data marketplace initiative to improve the future of crypto payments,

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_01]: there's no doubt that my guest and their company today are making waves in this evolving space.

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But how has the landscape of crypto payment adoption changed?

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like I've been talking about it for a decade now.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So how is it evolving?

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And most importantly, what are those opportunities that lie ahead in 2025 and beyond?

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's get my guest on and find out more.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_01]: So a massive warm welcome to the show.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, this is Peko from Pundi X and I'm the co-CEO of Pundi X.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And I've joined the company since it's been gained.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's been seven years.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_00]: We are celebrating our seven year anniversary, which is very, very long in terms of the crypto industry.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And I oversee the company operations, business development, as well as the customer support.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And I also oversee the product development because I would receive the feedback directly from our clients.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm also leading the team to implement the feedback and to drive the innovations.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, this is me.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Seven years in the crypto space.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: You must have seen so many different organizations come and go and seen so many big changes.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious, how have you seen someone right in the heart of the storm, so to speak?

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_01]: How have you seen the adoption of crypto payments evolve over the last few years?

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And what would you say are the biggest challenges and maybe even opportunities in educating both consumers and merchants to increase that adoption that's needed?

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Mm hmm.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a very good question.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Since we have been here for more than seven years, imagined seven years before, Bitcoin or crypto are not familiar terms for most people.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And with the media reporting someone's token has been lost and which exchange has been hacked, crypto is not given a good image.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So when I joined the company, my mom thought that I might join a rare company that might have the like a pyramid scheme or anything like that.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of people scare about crypto.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But with the years combined and more and more people know about cryptocurrency and know about the ownership, the advantage of ownership of crypto, that image has been changed.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And especially when they learned about Bitcoin is a limited supply and not like the fiat system that would print unlimitedly.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And the value has been decreased over the time while the Bitcoin is not.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So more and more people have given confidence in this space.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And time back forward to seven years ago, when we launched the products to the merchants is being very, very difficult.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And we have to educate the merchant and their staff related to what is Bitcoin, what is the chain, the blockchain.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And when we show our device to our to our clients or to the staff.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I remember one of the questions that they have asked is that, OK, this machine is great, but do they have like Japanese dollar in there or US dollar in there so that they can accept US dollar and Japanese dollars too.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So when you receive those type of question and you know that, OK, this is really far from the adoption.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But now with all the improvement and also the education being put in place and we got very educated merchants.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So when we talk about this product and they are just wow.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they were like when they try the product and then they actually really, really excited.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So these are two different scenes when we see the crypto adoption with the time passed by and with the knowledge passed by to go to the mainstream and also the mainstream adoption with the big company.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Even the US president is talking about Bitcoin, crypto.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Then it makes our jobs really easy today.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, seven years ago when you started out, the world was going crazy for crypto.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Then then the metaverse came along.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But now it's all about AI.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'd love to learn more about how upon the X you're using AI to enhance crypto payment experiences in physical retail outlets.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell me a bit more about that for anybody that's not seen this?

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And also, what kind of impact do you see this having on the broader retail industry?

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, we are applying AI for stages.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And since AI is all about data science.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So we are dealing with the data every day, right?

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: So the more data we have and then the more easier for us to improve the product and then to bring convenience to both of our customer and also our operator.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So FUNDS is a system that to allow the operator to manage their fund pool.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So when they start to manage their fund pool and they need information to make the fund pool operate in an efficient way.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So in terms of the experience, it will be first comes to those who use the system to actually to provide liquidity for their merchants.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_00]: For example, system has the features that allow the merchants to sell cryptocurrency, not only a cryptocurrency as a payment, but also sell cryptocurrency.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So the system itself actually collect those data and then we automate in a way that the stablecoin settlement is instantly.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And also for the operator who are able to manage to settle using the stablecoins to settle with their merchants in fiat currency in a very instant way.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So you don't need to wait like two or three days to restore.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Usually in the traditional payment industry, you need to wait two or three days.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you need to wait up to one month so that you can receive your payment that you receive from your customer.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But for crypto, it's all instantly in your wallet.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So for the operator who operates the PUN DX system, they will be able to withdraw the stablecoins and then they can settle in fiat with the merchants.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: In the near future, we would like to actually be more direct.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Nowadays, we are in the transition period that the operator still needs to process from crypto to fiat so that the merchants receive fiat currency.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But in the future with more crypto adoption, then they won't be able to need an intermediator to process the fiat, the crypto to fiat transaction.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_00]: They can actually manage your own wallet.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: They can receive stablecoins and then they can do stablecoins on their own.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So we are hoping that with all the mechanism in place, we have all the fund management mechanism that would also give users, give merchants a heads up of what is your liquidity situation and then whether you need to replenish your liquidity for the business.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And also we have the block list system that would automatically blacklist the addresses that would cause the AML warning triggers.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is the kind of like under the hood AI mechanism that we implement on the surface, you won't feel any difference because all the consumer do is to pay and go, right?

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So, but however, with current transition period, there is a lot of work to do to make it happen.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you use AI to facilitate it and then to make it more efficient with this process so that our merchants, our operator can manage the transition very smoothly.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things that's always been very exciting is developing countries are often seen as fertile ground for adoption of innovative financial technologies and the fintech space.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So how are these regions adapting to crypto payments?

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And are there any unique challenges that you see them facing right now?

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_01]: What's happening there?

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I think for developing countries, it's true that they are really welcome, especially for the cryptocurrency.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And we have seen, for example, like digital wallets is being quite common in Africa as well.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So I see there are two types of adoption.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: One is to kind of like from the top down approach.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: In terms of a top down approach, a country like El Salvador, they declare Bitcoin as a legal tender.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a top down approach.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So the people in that country has to learn about what is Bitcoin.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the government spend a lot of resources to educate what is Bitcoin and the advantage.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And then to also to push different policy for their people to adopt Bitcoin.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So in this situation, the adoption is quite easy.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And then education, you have a lot of education sources to to get into this this technology and also get into the crypto.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But however, there are some countries they are crypto got widely adopted from the bottom.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So because their currencies, national currency is devaluating against dollar.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So when you have a currency devaluating against dollar plus the inflation, then you will have the situation that people lose their confidence in their national currency.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they need to have another alternative options to keep the value of their assets stable.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So they will go into crypto.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They will go into stable coins.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: They will go into Bitcoin to seek the storage of value for that.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So those countries, including Turkey, Nigeria, South Africa, they are looking into a alternative assets to store the value of their assets.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So we can see those from the from the bottom.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: They are they use their cryptocurrency by learning by themselves.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And the country doesn't provide the sources of education to for them to learn.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And then there are a lot of OTC.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And also there are a lot of transactions happening in their daily life.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: All you need to do is to provide a tool for them to help them to facilitate those transactions.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what we are pushing very hard in those countries.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And and I think the reason why those countries need it, especially for developing country has been seen as a fertile ground because there's a very this is a necessity for them.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So when we push out this technology, we at first, we don't do any advertisements.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And after we implement the machine and then the transaction naturally happens without like promoting, promoting for ads or anything like that.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: They because they because they use crypto in their daily life.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they they want to have something that is formal for them to print received and also to have a good accounting system in behind to support the other transactions to report their transactions as well.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think, yes, this is a very, very two different approach.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And in terms of the challenges that they face, that might be the regulatory challenges, because there might be countries that they would like to push for their city, CBDC,

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: or they would place any policy that would limit the usage of crypto and also increase the cost for the company who adopt cryptocurrency as a payment.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So they need to do more reporting.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: They need to spend more to assign a compliance officer in their in their in their company,

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_00]: or they need to report.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_00]: They need to spend time to report to to the countries whereby what what what the transactions are.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So there are some costs from the compliance side for those who are currently using crypto.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And once the regulatory or laws change and then they need to spend more to comply.

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And since I started this podcast, what, 2015, I've been talking about increasing adoption in this space and 3000 interviews later, we're still talking about adoption.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm curious, what role do you see yourselves playing in driving this global adoption of crypto payments, particularly in regions where traditional banking infrastructure is limited?

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think in certain parts of the world, people have been listening and they have traditional banking.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But there is so many places in the world, more than probably have actual banking infrastructure that are struggling in this this area.

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_01]: There is a great number of unbanked people in the world that crypto addresses.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_01]: But how do you see yourselves driving that adoption?

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So Fundia has been since 2018, Fundia has been positioned itself as a driver of innovations.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So we want to launch products that people can use in their daily life.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_00]: In terms of events would be something that people don't familiar with, especially, for example, like blockchain technology, like AI.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And for the common people like us or the most of the mainstream consumer, they don't know about those technology.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So we want to make it easier for people to adopt.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So we developed a product like CoWalletCard.

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: We call it PSCard.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: This card is collaborative with Infineon Technology, which is a German chipset company manufacturer.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And it comes to us to want us to develop something on their chain, secure blockchain security solutions.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So we use that solution to develop the CoWalletCard.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And we want to make it as affordable as possible.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Because nowadays, if you see the hardware wallet card, it usually costs about $100 or at least $30 and above.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So we want to actually decrease or to make it affordable for most of the users.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And this type of cost is very, very easy to use.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So for a first time users, they would just tap on their phone and then they can see the balance in the car.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they can just tap on the device, the point of sale device, and then they can pay or they can pop up.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's very, it's like no brainer.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And we don't specifically implement any type of like technology threshold for them because this is a car designed for a first time user.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And we don't want to make it very difficult to use.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you buy a ledger and or if you buy a hardware wallet card, the first thing you need to do is there's no setup if you get the PS card.

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Because our merchants ask us that please do not place any setup in this card because in the actually in the real world environment,

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: people don't spend time setting up those things and then they forget everything after they set up.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So in order to make it more adoption, then you have to make it very simple.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But for most of the people, advanced crypto user, they will see that this will have a security issue if you don't set up.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's more about how you would like to position your product and what are the target audience of this product.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: If our target audience is the most advanced crypto user, then we will make it very, very, very...

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You can actually set up some threshold for people to access their own assets.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And because those people are very smart.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But for those who...

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I think most of us, we won't actually remember our PIN code, for example.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And the PIN code has to be very, very easy for numbers.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And even that, when we implement PIN code onto our card and people still forget and then they cannot access their own wallet.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So we make it really, really easy.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So people won't need to have any technology background and then they can just use it from their own experience.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And then if they lose it, they lose the assets.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: We tell our users that if you lose the card, you lose the key.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: If you lose your key, and of course, you lose the assets to this wallet as well.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just like that.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And it works pretty well.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And there are some needs that they want to save higher value of assets.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we recommend that you can get Ledger, you can get Trezor.

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you have a lot of the crypto assets in the wallet, this is the wallet for the first-time users.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So we decide products in a way to see how would the first-time user would look like and how would they act so that the adoption will come because of that.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And extending on that adoption problem that we're talking about here, how do you see partnerships and governments and established companies accelerating mainstream adoption of crypto payments?

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_01]: How do you see this coming together too?

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So for the established payment company, we have several in talks.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Usually they have their legacy system or current system that they need to connect with.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So how do we, for example, how do we design the mechanism for the crypto payments transaction that we can reflect it on their system?

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is something that they are looking into.

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And for the established company, they have their own system.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they are already compliant with the current regulations.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And you have to customize a little bit to follow the rules of reporting.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think for cryptocurrency adoption, when the regulation comes, and then usually for the past three to four years, the regulator actually using the very traditional way to think about crypto.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they thought about how you should comply.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But after realizing crypto is a decentralized technology, and they might find that some regulation doesn't really apply to cryptocurrency and it's not practical at all.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So when you work with an established company, and then you might need to help them for the reporting process, you need to help them to report to their regulator and then to design some APIs so that they can continue complying with the current regulations.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So with that, I believe they have the web tool company, they have many, many users, but we will start it as a very small batch of the user and then to see how it goes.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And then after that, you can expand it as a more user base so that the adoption comes in this way.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Because crypto is still new to most of the users and there is a learning path for them, for the staff as well.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: When they check out, they need to press another option of business crypto.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you have to put in additional option.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And another adoption path would be for most of the credit card companies doing is that they will convert.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_00]: You can convert your crypto inside the cost and into fiat.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, you are spending fiat with the credit card.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So these are two types of adoption.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: One is that people spending crypto directly from their own wallet.

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: The other is that people might have a crypto credit card and then they spend fiat.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's just like the same checkout process as it used to be.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But we are on the first part, the most difficult part, because a lot of users, for example, you will also have your own MetaMask wallet.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You want to spend directly from your MetaMask wallet.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And we are doing these type of things.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the world of fintech is a tightly regulated industry.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And in your experience, what are the most effective strategies for overcoming those regulatory and logistical hurdles

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_01]: that are often associated with deploying crypto payment solutions in such diverse markets?

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Because it can be quite complicated.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is very complicated.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So for us, we work with a licensed partner that they have already have mechanism or they have the plan to push their cryptocurrency.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Usually they have studied a lot before they adopt crypto.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they come to us to ask how we can work together, maybe through APIs.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think at this moment, this is the most effective strategies for us to overcome the regulatory or logistic hurdles.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Because if we work directly with the license party and we become a technology provider and they handle the compliance and logistic themselves.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So by using our know-how, they will be able to push their crypto strategy or crypto payment initiative into their client base.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is the strategy we are taking right now.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Love that.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And with the rapid advancement in AI right now, I'm curious, how do you envision the future of crypto payments evolving, particularly in the context of customer experience and security?

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You must be seeing so many big changes.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious how you see all this unfolding in the years ahead.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So for crypto payment, we are still in a very early stage.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I keep talking about this for over seven years.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: We are still in the very early stage because we're still using fiat every day.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And then there will be a period of time.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It's very painful to kind of like convert crypto to fiat and fiat to crypto.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is the most tedious part.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_00]: That's how can we manage the liquidity.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_00]: We help our partner to manage their liquidity to have the supply, the sufficient supply to their customer and also sufficient supplies to complete the transactions.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So AI would help to fetch the most appropriate rates in the future and also to help us to make decisions of when should we settle this in what price.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So with the generative AI, with all the transactions records that has been in and we will be able to have the AI model that would help our operator to manage their liquidity very well.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And also for the client side, if they started to use their own wallet to pay and if they go through our payment system, we will be able to provide.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, for example, if they have anything stuck in there and then they can get support.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: For example, the AI bots or AI support telling them, OK, what's going on with my payment?

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it stuck somewhere in the blockchain or is it something else?

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So usually when we have this type of situation, there's no message and the consumer don't know what to do.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And so does the merchant.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Merchant doesn't know what to do.

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we got called, we got message from our customer.

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why at the beginning, I'm also supporting all type of issues that our user has been reported.

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think for AI will play a very important role to make the transactions very smooth by telling our customer what's going on on the blockchain.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Because when you transact on the network that you are not familiar with, you need that kind of a system to guide you through the process.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And when I started this podcast back in 2015, I think it was almost compulsory to ask any crypto project, when's your website launching?

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_01]: When's your roadmap?

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: What partnerships have you got coming?

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_01]: We've evolved so far since those days.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But I appreciate you've got people listening from your community that might be hanging on your every word.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But are there any teasers or insights you can share around some upcoming projects or initiatives that just aim to further the integration of crypto payments into everyday life?

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We have, we internally have an initiative related to data processing.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So since we are talking about AI and I have said about all about AI is data science.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So from the day that you collect those data, that you have all the data to process and then to use the data to make predictions or you make decision out of the data that you have.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And we see a trend that more and more business, no matter it's big business or small business.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe the big business is already doing that.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_00]: They are training their own language, big language model.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And for the small business, they may also need that because they have their own data to process.

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: They need to rely on their own data to tell them, okay, what to do in the future, how to make the decision.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So we see this type of demand in the market and we forecast like for two to three years from now, there will be a demand of data processing.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So nowadays, data has been, there are a lot of data, but this is not the data that you want.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you spend extra CPUs to compute the loss or trend the loss language model.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And also, second of all, the data is not in good quality.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you throw a bad quality of data to train the model and then the answer that you get will be also a not in good quality.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It's garbage, it's like garbage in, garbage out.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we want to solve these issues that we can leverage blockchain technology to deliver.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_00]: For example, there are a lot of initiatives like play to earn on the blockchain projects and people get rewarded by playing a game.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And why don't you like tech tour and you can tech your data, you can annotate the data, you can make the data better.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you get reward for that.

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Not only the reward, but also after you produce those work and then those work become your IP.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you sell those IP to all types of business that would need those data.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So that would actually become a continuous reward for you because you spend time on tagging.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And then by using the blockchain technology and then your work can be reselled to others.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So we are building a data marketplace for people to upload their data, who want their data to be trained, or they want to contribute the data.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they contribute their own data.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And also there is a data annotator.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_00]: They can annotate the data, they can process the data.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And also there will be a data buyer.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they can actually buy those data to train their model.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So by the specific data, I would say.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So by doing that, that could complement our current business that we are processing a lot of transactions data.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And how we can collect those data, reuse those data to provide it to those companies who needed to build a large language model from it.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is our new initiative.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And the platform will be launched in November.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're very looking forward to this happen.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we are hoping that that can also complement the payment product we have right now.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Love that.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And on a personal level, there is this real pressure on all of us to be in a state of continuous learning.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And as someone working in an industry that is full of continuous change, technological change, very complex change as well.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I've got to ask, where or how do you self-educate?

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_01]: How do you keep up to speed with all the big changes?

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a very good question.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I think all my life, I've been going through all the technology changes.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Before that, I was in the browser industry.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And we also have a lot of changes, technology improvement in terms of the internet technology.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think one of the tools or the things that I would be using for self-educate is to some online class.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: They are free.

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_00]: They're just online.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think MIT has a really, really good resource.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I really love to attend their classes to self-educate, no matter the concept, including the most recent, the AI and data science.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I have been in this class for a few weeks right now.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll be getting the certificates on this one.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think all you need to do is that you can allocate a small amount of time every day for this.

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you continuously learn what is going on in this industry.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the academic provide a really good tools.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_00]: They actually put all the knowledge in an organized way so that you can learn it.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you can digest it and you can use it for your job.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So I highly recommend the MIT online class.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: They have both free ones and paid ones.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody should check it out.

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely love that.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And for anyone listening wanting to join your community, find more information about everything that you're doing there.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Where would you like to point everyone listening?

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_00]: We have the Twitter, which is x.com.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_00]: We constantly update our status.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Where are we?

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And our handle is PoonDX Lab.

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And for the AI initiative, we have PoonD AIFX.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you search PoonD AIFX, you can see all things about our AI initiative.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So we have these two handles to educate both payment and AI data processing part so that people can join and to discuss.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And we also have the Telegram group.

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_00]: The name is all the same.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you search PoonDX, you can look for us.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you search PoonD AIFX, and you can see all things related to AI there.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely love that.

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And for everybody listening, I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have today because we've covered so much in a short amount of time from crypto payment adoption and education,

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_01]: AI for crypto payment in physical retail outlets,

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and also how developing countries are adapting to crypto payments, arguably leading the way, I would say, too.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But more than anything, just thank you for shining a light on this and sharing your insights and everything that you're seeing out there.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks again.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me, Nels.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_00]: It's my pleasure.

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's all we have time for on today's episode.

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And what an insightful conversation it's been from discussing the practical applications of AI in crypto payments to exploring how developing countries are navigating this new financial frontier.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And a big thank you to my guests for sharing their valuable perspectives on the challenges business face in crypto adoption.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But how are these emerging technologies are shaping the payments of tomorrow?

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So what's next for crypto in your view?

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Are you excited about its growing role in retail?

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Or do you think there's still many more hurdles to overcome?

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So feel free to share them with me.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Tech blog writer outlook dot com.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_01]: LinkedIn.

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Remember to connect with me there.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Just that Neil C. Hughes.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Love to hear from you.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But until next time, keep exploring this ever evolving world of technology.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And join me again tomorrow with another guest.

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll speak with you all then.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Bye for now.