3071: Privacy, Security, and Scale: How Push Protocol is Shaping Web3 Communication

[00:00:04] How do we communicate securely and efficiently in the decentralized world of Web3?

[00:00:11] Well today I want to find out more about blockchain communication with my good friend Harsh from the Push Protocol we last spoke two years ago.

[00:00:21] And since we last spoke, Push Protocol has continued to revolutionize how users interact within the decentralized space,

[00:00:28] from securing messaging to video notifications and Pushnodes, a proof-of-stake network that aims to become the blockchain of communication.

[00:00:38] So today we're going to discuss that Push V3 launch, its cross-chain support, wallet-free share,

[00:00:45] and the exciting potential of omni-chain features, which is a must in 2024, of course.

[00:00:52] Not going to get very far without it. So what does the future hold for Web3 communication?

[00:00:57] How will privacy and decentralized shape it? And why is it so important now more than ever?

[00:01:05] Well, let's find out. And we can do that by taking your ears all the way to Dubai, where my guest is waiting to join us today.

[00:01:13] So a massive warm welcome to the show. We last spoke, what, two years ago?

[00:01:19] But can you just remind the listeners with a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:01:23] First of all, really happy to be back again over here, Neil. And yeah, very excited about it.

[00:01:29] Even the last time we spoke, it was one of the best podcasts I did.

[00:01:33] So yeah, for all the listeners, hey there, I'm Harish. I'm the founder and project lead of Push Protocol.

[00:01:42] What is Push Protocol? Well, it's a native Web3 notification and messaging protocol.

[00:01:48] In essence, that means that whenever protocols like ShapeShift or Cowswap or OneNZ or Decentraland

[00:01:56] or Unstoppable or ENS wants to send something to your wallet communication-wise,

[00:02:01] Push Protocol is what enables it.

[00:02:03] Very happy to be here. And yeah, let's get started.

[00:02:07] Well, the world has changed so much in the short two years since we last spoke.

[00:02:12] And Push Protocol though is always known as the communication protocol of Web3.

[00:02:18] But the uninitiated, maybe they missed our first conversation.

[00:02:21] Can you just introduce them to how Push Protocol is helping to transform communication within that Web3 ecosystem?

[00:02:29] And what makes it essential for protocols, decentralized apps and crypto wallets, etc.?

[00:02:35] Because I know there's a lot of people listening to be sat on the sidelines saying, yeah.

[00:02:38] Why? Why Push?

[00:02:41] Yeah, it can be a bit intimidating if you're not that techie, right?

[00:02:44] Sure. So the simplest way to understand this and why it is important and why we get to this point,

[00:02:52] like the simplest way to understand it is, right, for anything that you do in Web3, right?

[00:02:58] Whether you are taking part in proposals, whether you are taking a DeFi loan,

[00:03:03] whether you are doing an ENS domain or whether you are engaging with any Web3 related service, right?

[00:03:10] The only way that you do it is through your Web3 wallet,

[00:03:14] which is a random cryptographic wallet or pseudo anonymous account.

[00:03:18] And that what happens is this Web3 wallet interacts with the protocol, which is a smart contract.

[00:03:25] So in that or by that extension, what you understand is that your Web3 wallet is a username, right?

[00:03:31] And that is what is interacting with the protocol.

[00:03:34] And the protocol only knows that this username is doing something around us,

[00:03:40] whether you are buying an ENS domain name, right? Let's say that.

[00:03:44] So ENS protocol only understand that this 0xABC wallet has bought an ENS team.

[00:03:51] But when it comes to reengaging those wallets, there is, or before push, there was no solution that existed, right?

[00:04:00] So this protocol only knows your Web3 username.

[00:04:04] And there needs to be a way by which they can say, hey, your ENS domain is about to expire.

[00:04:10] Or hey, your DeFi loan that you have taken, the market is very volatile and your DeFi loan might be liquidated.

[00:04:17] So all of those things that you see in Web3, which basically email takes over, over here, there's no concept of email.

[00:04:25] The only thing that you interact with is from your wallet address to protocol.

[00:04:29] And that is where notification becomes such an interesting thing to have for Web3.

[00:04:35] And that is what push realized and push invented, which basically said that, hey, our protocol only knows this wallet address.

[00:04:43] And therefore, by extension, if the protocol wants to send engaging and targeted alerts or communication,

[00:04:51] they have to have a way by which they can send those things out to this wallet address.

[00:04:56] And that is where push protocol came in.

[00:04:59] So that is the why part of it and why it's important for any protocol to do it.

[00:05:05] Well, in essence, this just ties back to Web2.

[00:05:08] Like what is the first thing that you do when you get up in the morning?

[00:05:11] Like I get up, I have a look at my phone and I'll see all these notifications from all the Web2 apps that I use.

[00:05:17] And that drives my day.

[00:05:19] In fact, this meeting with this podcast was a calendar, Google calendar sending me a notification, right?

[00:05:25] And that is why push protocol is important for any developer to indicate in their protocol.

[00:05:30] And in two years, we have exactly done that.

[00:05:34] Now we have sent over 110 billion notifications, right?

[00:05:37] And from all the very cool protocols, like protocols like CoinDesk or protocols like ENS or Unstoppable.

[00:05:45] Yeah, you guys have been incredibly busy since we last spoke.

[00:05:50] And when I originally booked you in, I was reading about the upcoming launch of push nodes and the proof of stake network

[00:05:56] and how you're moving closer to becoming an almost blockchain of communication.

[00:06:01] But what will this new network bring to the table?

[00:06:05] And how will it enhance the existing communication infrastructure in Web3?

[00:06:10] What is it that excites you about that?

[00:06:12] Oh, this is something that we've worked for like the past four years.

[00:06:16] Like when we started, we were like, OK, notifications are needed.

[00:06:20] This is how we do notification.

[00:06:22] It needs to be immutable because you don't need anyone to change that out.

[00:06:27] You don't need a centralized first party.

[00:06:29] So we started with day zero that you sign a notification or a protocol signs a notification and then sends it out to the wallet.

[00:06:36] But then there was some other questions that we had.

[00:06:41] Like right now, what happens is that even though the content is immutable, it's not following the exact Web3 post, which is the content should also be decentralized,

[00:06:52] which basically means like, let's say our set of nodes go down.

[00:06:56] The network is still stays.

[00:06:58] That's how Bitcoin and Ethereum were made.

[00:07:00] So for the past four years, this was what we wanted to have.

[00:07:04] Now, the problem was that we were creating a consumer app and usually Web3 is for financial apps because you have the sequence of transaction and they are usually very slow.

[00:07:16] Right.

[00:07:17] So the problem was that how do we decentralize a real time communication protocol because you cannot say that, OK, 100 notification per second is the limit that you can have.

[00:07:29] That doesn't really work when it comes to notification, which are in billions, if not billions.

[00:07:34] So that is how we started working on our own network and making sure that this is a very scalable architecture.

[00:07:42] It took us a lot of time to crack it because of course, scalability, speed and security.

[00:07:49] You have you know that, Rylaman, like everyone knows it, but took us a lot of time.

[00:07:53] But we were able to crack that out for the communication sense.

[00:07:56] Then the second problem was that we wanted to create a consumer app, which basically meant that we didn't want this protocol to be just on Ethereum.

[00:08:04] Like we started from Ethereum and we love Ethereum and Ethereum push notification service was what we were known for three years back.

[00:08:12] But then we realized that this is a Web3 communication stack.

[00:08:16] So we wanted EVMs as well as non-EVMs to come into the picture.

[00:08:20] And of course, that basically meant that the network that we are creating, it should be able to validate EVM as well as non-EVM transaction payloads.

[00:08:31] So that was the other cool thing that we started building on push nodes.

[00:08:36] And yeah, I'm very happy to say that, you know, all of those things are done.

[00:08:40] We are just going through some of the polishing phase.

[00:08:43] We also unlocked some very unique insights which we'll share with the community as the time goes on.

[00:08:49] But yeah, all that work was to create a decentralized communication blockchain.

[00:08:56] And we are very, very near to releasing that alpha version out to the public.

[00:09:01] In fact, it's not even alpha now.

[00:09:03] It's beta version out to the public.

[00:09:06] And something else I've got to bring up here is push V3.

[00:09:10] That also introduces several exciting features, including wallet share and the fee pool.

[00:09:16] But can you walk me through some of those new features, what they are and their significance to the users and developers that might be listening and indeed your entire community in the Web3 space?

[00:09:29] No, for sure.

[00:09:30] I mean, push protocol V3 kind of ties to push nodes and kind of ties to non-EVM and EVM logic as well.

[00:09:37] So there are a couple of features that we are really excited about in push protocol V3.

[00:09:42] Like the first feature was like right now when you are creating this notification channel, like a channel is when a protocol comes and activates themselves on our protocol.

[00:09:53] So kind of like how you have apps on iOS, right?

[00:09:58] Think about those apps as protocols or channels on push.

[00:10:02] The idea behind it is that when you install the app, you tap allow notification before they can send the notification.

[00:10:09] And that's how you prevent all those scam and spam on iOS and Android.

[00:10:14] And we wanted to do the same thing.

[00:10:16] So what we did was we said, okay, if you want to send notification to your users, you have to first come and you have to activate your smartphone app protocol.

[00:10:27] And then we said that you have to come on Ethereum to activate even if you are a other EVM or other non-EVM blockchain.

[00:10:36] And that had some friction, right?

[00:10:38] Of course, you know, if you are, let's say Solana user or Solana developer or even AppGOS developer, it's really cumbersome to come and learn about Ethereum.

[00:10:49] And then, you know, from there start connecting your notification so that you can activate yourself on AppGOS blockchain.

[00:10:56] So a major part of push protocol V3 was to break that dependency of Ethereum as a base chain.

[00:11:03] And that is what we did. So now what we have is this cross chain request, which basically means that even if you are on a non-EVM standard or on an EVM blockchain, you can go ahead and you can activate your channel.

[00:11:19] And under the push protocol takes care of abstracting everything, communicating with Ethereum, making sure your channel is active.

[00:11:28] But you as a developer, you don't have to do all those steps.

[00:11:32] So it kind of breaks away from Ethereum as a base chain.

[00:11:35] You can choose any chain as a base chain.

[00:11:39] For example, you can choose Startware or you can choose Solana or you can choose almost any, which again ties into this version of a Web3 communication protocol, not just like EVM specific protocol.

[00:11:52] So that was one thing. Then the other thing ties to this cold start problem that we had, where in when we started, we realized that, OK, notifications are needed.

[00:12:03] But how do you solve this out? Like notifications are only needed when services are sending notifications and they only send notifications when users are there. Right.

[00:12:14] So that was one part of the problem that we solved from 2021 to 2023, how to get everyone involved and how to get everyone excited and how to create an ecosystem.

[00:12:25] But then there's again another cold start problem, which is how do you get wallets to adopt it? Because the vision of push is this invisible layer.

[00:12:35] And we made some strikes like Unstoppable Wallet now has pushed natively adopted. MetaMask Snap now has pushed natively adopted.

[00:12:44] In fact, there's a notification section on MetaMask now. If you go over there, you can see notification from MetaMask as well as push.

[00:12:52] But how do you get it even further, especially for the wallets who are not Web3 native or who are not very adventurous or not very excited about communication? Right.

[00:13:04] And that is where the wallet fee share comes into the picture. So what we understood was that in our ecosystem, we have four actors.

[00:13:12] One is the user. The other is the services. The third one was the push notes, people running the notes.

[00:13:18] And the fourth one are the wallets who want to adopt it. And the best way to get those adoption going is to introduce an incentive for those wallets.

[00:13:27] So what we did in push protocol V3, we said that, hey, if you adopt notification or chat on your wallet, what you can do is through governance, you can take a part of the fee.

[00:13:39] And that governance and that part of the fee, that will be on chain. So you're tying the entire ecosystem together as well as incentivizing these wallets that if they adopt push and the faster they adopt push, the faster they are able to earn for a service in which they are a critical part.

[00:13:57] And that, in essence, these two features form the core of push protocol V3.

[00:14:03] And I think omni-chain support is also another key feature of push V3.

[00:14:08] So how do you see that enhancing cross-chain communication and what benefits do you associate this will bring to, or do you anticipate this will bring to the broader Web3 ecosystem?

[00:14:23] I mean, I think in 2024, unless you are omni-chain, you don't have a lot of user base now.

[00:14:32] Like we are going into this set of hundreds of capable L1s and thousands of capable L2s.

[00:14:38] And then that will spark to tens of thousands of really awesome L3s.

[00:14:42] But because of that, you have to have this omni-chain support, which basically means that, again, your chain can be any chain.

[00:14:51] It doesn't have to be Ethereum from where you start.

[00:14:54] You can start from Solana.

[00:14:55] You can start from Base.

[00:14:57] You can start from Polygon, BNB, Aptors, Startware, whatever.

[00:15:01] So that's one part of the chain experience or the chain agnostic experience.

[00:15:06] And then the other part is that you can also connect whatever chains you want where your protocol is deployed.

[00:15:13] So in case you start from, let's say, an Ethereum chain, but your protocol is also on Base, you can add that chain as part of notification subset or notification protocol standard.

[00:15:26] That is essentially what the omni-chain means.

[00:15:28] It simply means that if you have a protocol that is live across different chains, you are able to add all those chains and you are able to service all those users right from push protocol.

[00:15:42] And I was also saying, I mean, these stats could even be out of date now.

[00:15:45] This is when I originally booked you in.

[00:15:47] I think you got more than 237,000 subscribers, more than 700 integrations.

[00:15:53] So you're already widely adopted out there.

[00:15:56] But how have you managed to achieve such extensive integration across the Web3 space and adoption?

[00:16:03] What are the key factors behind this space, this success?

[00:16:07] Because I speak with a lot of people in this space, and that adoption word, that is the hardest thing right now.

[00:16:12] So any tips on how you've managed to achieve that?

[00:16:16] I think it's just having awesome protocols adopting you.

[00:16:21] It is not on us as much as it's on them adopting.

[00:16:25] But the biggest tip is, I think, identifying a product market fit.

[00:16:31] Like with notifications, I think we were on the right spot with the right time.

[00:16:35] And everyone was very, very awesome to us.

[00:16:38] So what happened was like DeFi revolution was coming in and governance was coming in and decentralized or consumer apps were getting created.

[00:16:47] And all of those things, they tied to the engagement of the user.

[00:16:53] Because blockchain in 2020, it was transforming from not just sending money from me to you.

[00:16:58] It was transforming to applications, taking in and being this part of the next internet wave.

[00:17:05] And because of that, I think this was one thing that worked for us, that we didn't have to go and sell it to people that, hey, you need to have notifications.

[00:17:15] Like whenever we went and we said that, hey, we figured out how you can do notifications to wallet.

[00:17:21] The resounding answer was yes.

[00:17:23] Very cool.

[00:17:24] How can we integrate?

[00:17:25] So that was probably one thing that really worked for us, which was identifying that gap, which was needed in this space.

[00:17:33] And then, of course, with the evolution of P5, everyone wanted to make sure that their loan is not getting liquidated.

[00:17:40] So that kind of transformed the way further and further.

[00:17:43] And that is basically how we got the integration server and how we got the subscribers.

[00:17:49] Like I think now it's 245,000 subscribers.

[00:17:52] So we are kind of raging on and we are kind of getting adopted more and more.

[00:17:59] But yeah, at the very time, I'm very excited because all of this we did with a very limited AVM ecosystem support.

[00:18:07] Like we are live on Ethereum, BNB Chain, Polygon and a few others.

[00:18:12] But with Push Protocol, V3 just opens up to the entire directory.

[00:18:16] So we are really excited about how this revolution or this change will impact other blockchains as well.

[00:18:24] And you mentioned Polygon there.

[00:18:26] And of course, the integration of Push Protocol is also on platforms far and wide from Uniswap to Masque.

[00:18:33] And I'm curious, what challenge did you face during those integrations for anyone listening that's inside this space?

[00:18:40] Any big challenges you had to overcome?

[00:18:42] And how did you ensure that seamless communication across so many different platforms?

[00:18:48] Sure.

[00:18:48] So I think with Uniswap, like Uniswap was among the worst of our partners who were interested in trying the notifications out and see how it goes.

[00:18:59] I think just being very humble and just asking them that, hey, this is what we have built.

[00:19:05] Like this meme that you have, right?

[00:19:07] Hey, I built this and the other person is like, oh, you built this.

[00:19:10] So I think just being very humble and just asking them whether they would be interested and being patient.

[00:19:17] Because at that point of time, they were probably launching V2, if I remember it right.

[00:19:23] So just being very patient and asking them very nicely and able to express yourself like what thing you are unlocking.

[00:19:31] Those were the biggest points that drove us to that adoption.

[00:19:35] For MetaMask, the biggest thing, and this is something I tell to all the burning founders.

[00:19:42] Like I always have three advice for people.

[00:19:45] So those three advice are like always start from a hackathon.

[00:19:49] We started from ETH Global.

[00:19:50] Then be shameless in asking questions.

[00:19:54] We basically do that as well.

[00:19:56] And then be open to what you're building in the community.

[00:20:00] So all of these three advice, they basically tied to how we got to MetaMask or how MetaMask knew about us.

[00:20:07] Which basically was that we were building this thing in ETH Global Hackathon 2020.

[00:20:12] We kind of put a proof of concept out as a tweet.

[00:20:16] And then luckily, we got engagement from a lot of full Web3 mentors and founders like Kevin O'Waki or Dan Finlay.

[00:20:25] Or Dan Finlay is, by the way, the co-founder of MetaMask.

[00:20:29] And then a lot of other Web3 mentors and Web3 OGs.

[00:20:34] So what it did was we basically did.

[00:20:37] And Dan Finlay was like, what you're building, that will not work in the volatile infrastructure.

[00:20:42] You have to figure something else out.

[00:20:45] But that was the start of the conversation.

[00:20:47] And probably that conversation led to MetaMask team knowing about push.

[00:20:53] And then for the longer way, when they launched Snap, we were like, let's work together.

[00:20:58] Let's create a Snap.

[00:20:59] Let's simplify the entire Web3 UX.

[00:21:01] So I think it all starts from being very open to the community and be shameless in asking for help.

[00:21:08] Because we were very shameless.

[00:21:10] And we DMed Dan Finlay that, hey, while this is very cool that you replied, can you tell us what are the things that you feel is wrong in what we were building in BZero?

[00:21:20] So yeah, those three advices, what I usually tell the founders.

[00:21:25] But personally, those three advices, what has helped us in getting through all these contacts.

[00:21:31] Even Uniswap, like we got connected because we asked for help from some of the Web3 OGs who we got connected to.

[00:21:38] And we were like, we think Uniswap will be very cool to have it on.

[00:21:42] And then being very shameless and asking what can we do to integrate.

[00:21:47] So yeah.

[00:21:48] Love it.

[00:21:49] And as the Web3 landscape continues to evolve, again, I'm curious, how do you see the push protocols role in shaping the future of decentralized communication?

[00:22:00] And I would imagine as well with the rising, let's say, authoritarian government measures and big tech and awareness that big tech is monitoring everything that we say and do.

[00:22:12] I would imagine there's an increased appetite for decentralized communication as well.

[00:22:16] So where do you see your role in that?

[00:22:18] And also, what are your long-term goals for the platform as a whole?

[00:22:23] For sure.

[00:22:23] I think one of the things that we very quickly realized was for a consumer app or a Web2 app to be successful, they do three or four things in a broader nutshell.

[00:22:38] Like you take YouTube.

[00:22:39] Let's take the example of YouTube, for example.

[00:22:42] So the first thing that they do is they make the sign-in experience very smooth for the user,

[00:22:48] which we are trying to do with account abstraction and a lot of other things.

[00:22:53] Then the next thing that they do is they only make the user sign-in when the user wants to do something which is of importance for them.

[00:23:04] Like when you upload the video only, then you are prompted to sign-in or when you want to have a personalized history.

[00:23:10] This is something that Web2 also needs to do that you don't tell the user that you connect to an application via your wallet first.

[00:23:18] You show them like what would they get once they do it.

[00:23:23] And now people are doing that.

[00:23:24] Like Uniswap is doing it.

[00:23:26] Aave is doing it.

[00:23:27] Push is doing it.

[00:23:27] A lot of other companies are doing it.

[00:23:29] Then the third thing that these people do, they basically re-engage their users.

[00:23:35] So whatever you do in YouTube, after the file, YouTube will send you a notification out saying that, hey, you might want to check this out.

[00:23:44] Or, hey, we have compiled this list of very cool videos for you.

[00:23:50] That re-engagement ties to Push Protocol.

[00:23:52] And that is where we said that we want to be this communication sector because that is the only way you make sure that the attention of your user is not lost.

[00:24:03] And then, of course, after that comes chatting and video calling and so on, which also Push started to cover.

[00:24:10] So, yeah, in my experience, a successful app needs to follow these four things.

[00:24:16] And that for these four things, you need to transform into Web3 version as well.

[00:24:21] So when you transform it out, like Push Protocol really fits into the communication there.

[00:24:26] So that is what we are excited about in 2024.

[00:24:30] Now, what's coming next in 2025?

[00:24:35] So during the course of building Push Protocol and during the course of making sure that everything is scalable, everything is Web3 optimized,

[00:24:44] and everything is really, really for all the Web3 users, we have uncovered some very, very unique insights.

[00:24:51] And, of course, we haven't covered it right now.

[00:24:54] We have uncovered it like a year back.

[00:24:56] So we are building something extremely cool for the entire Web3, apart from what Push Protocol is going to be.

[00:25:04] But, of course, that I'll talk about in 2025, another reason for us to meet.

[00:25:10] So, yeah.

[00:25:11] I love it.

[00:25:12] You've left me with a good teaser there.

[00:25:14] We're not going to leave it two years till we speak again.

[00:25:16] We need to get you back on next year.

[00:25:18] I appreciate you can't share too much.

[00:25:21] It must be frustrating because I think you want to share this stuff.

[00:25:24] Your community want to hear it, but you can't share it right now.

[00:25:27] And maybe something you can share, though, before you go is Web3 is often associated with, as I said a few moments ago, decentralization, user control.

[00:25:36] So how do you at Push Protocol ensure that security, that privacy of your communication services, particularly in environments where user data and interactions are?

[00:25:48] They're becoming a paramount concern now, aren't they?

[00:25:53] They are.

[00:25:54] They are.

[00:25:55] So, I mean, this is something that we realized from the very get-go that we are building is a decentralized tech.

[00:26:03] So it needs to be decentralized.

[00:26:05] We can not just say, okay, it's centralized in a way and then move towards it.

[00:26:10] So whatever we built, like this immutability concept and the decentralization concept or even the privacy concept, privacy for push notifications as well as chat is directly inbuilt.

[00:26:23] Like it follows Web3 ethos.

[00:26:25] There's no one who can really see what you are sending unless you want to see or unless you want to give them the option to see.

[00:26:35] For example, when you're sending a loan liquidation alert or near loan liquidation alert to a wallet, you don't care because that wallet is out in the open.

[00:26:44] So you send a plain text notification.

[00:26:46] But when you are sending OTP or when you are chatting wallet to wallet, everything is end-to-end encrypted.

[00:26:52] And that is something that we realized why it's important.

[00:26:56] Because A, we feel that in the future, especially with AI coming in now, users are going to be more aligned to keeping their privacy.

[00:27:08] Because before that, it was algorithms on any app that you're using.

[00:27:13] With AI, this is going to be very hyper way of understanding a personality and then basically activating or analyzing you as a person and manipulating you in whatever the narrative wants to be.

[00:27:29] And that is why, and that is what we feel that because of that, Web3 will, especially the communication aspect, will take a leap forward.

[00:27:39] Wherein people want to be very private.

[00:27:42] People don't want other companies to basically capture their data.

[00:27:47] And it makes sense as well, right?

[00:27:50] A company will survive or not survive.

[00:27:52] That's up to how they operate.

[00:27:54] There can be a forced major event as well.

[00:27:56] But the decentralization tech will survive.

[00:27:59] So, in a way, we see that this is the future.

[00:28:03] Right now, it's a bit slow because we are still figuring out P2PM how to do it.

[00:28:08] I can do Web2, but it will get there.

[00:28:11] And when it gets there, I think the only way forward is privacy.

[00:28:16] The only way forward is decentralization.

[00:28:19] And the only way forward is immutability.

[00:28:21] Wherein the services are just helping the user to read something.

[00:28:26] Not getting into how they want to change that narrative or how they can benefit from that narrative.

[00:28:34] That should also be monetized, right?

[00:28:36] If you want to run an ad out of me, you need to pay me to do that.

[00:28:41] So, all of those things, we kind of started realizing when we started building this out.

[00:28:47] And now, we are finding out very recently with the Telegram founder and with the way Telegram operates.

[00:28:54] Now, people are realizing that Telegram is not really end-to-end encrypted.

[00:29:00] There's a key control by Telegram.

[00:29:02] And of course, there's this thing that people say that I don't have anything to hide.

[00:29:08] So, everything is open.

[00:29:10] That is good when someone you trust is aing one, your conversation.

[00:29:18] But that is not good with a lot of AI agents out in the open.

[00:29:23] And people who are going to turn this data, that open data that you have, into manipulating you or scamming you or even getting your identity.

[00:29:35] So, the only forward is Web3 messaging or, at the very least, end-to-end messaging.

[00:29:41] So that everything is secure and everything is AI-proof in a way.

[00:29:47] And I think that is such a timely message and a perfect moment to end on.

[00:29:51] But before I do let you go, I'm going to have a bit of fun with you now, as we always do at the end of a podcast.

[00:29:56] I want to provide your community with a few extra little tips or things about you they may or may not know.

[00:30:04] And we have a Spotify playlist where I ask my guests to leave a song that means something to them.

[00:30:10] Guilty Pleasures Are Allowed.

[00:30:12] Or an Amazon wish list where we add books from the guests for listeners to check out.

[00:30:18] So, to begin with, is there a book or a song you'd like to leave everyone listening and why?

[00:30:23] Sure.

[00:30:24] I'm going to stick to English songs over here because I think my native songs will not cut it.

[00:30:31] And I'm very embarrassed to my native song listening, like what I listen.

[00:30:35] So, Thunder is something that I really listen to.

[00:30:40] It's very nostalgic for me just because when we were launching, we kind of put up a website with EBN as in a SoundCloud plugin, which played Thunder.

[00:30:51] And we kind of put a beat in sync with how the website was playing.

[00:30:56] So, that is something that I now listen to, like whenever I want to feel motivated.

[00:31:01] So, Thunder by, I think it's by Dragons, something Dragons.

[00:31:07] That's something that's very cool that you guys should really look into.

[00:31:12] The second thing, like the book that I'd read.

[00:31:14] So, this is High Growth Notebook by Elad Gill.

[00:31:20] One of our Silicon Valley VCs was really awesome, like True Ventures.

[00:31:26] They recommended us at the very start.

[00:31:29] It's essentially a book for all entrepreneurs that really want to build something out.

[00:31:35] Because when you start, there's so many questions about how you build a team, whether you micromanage, whether you don't.

[00:31:42] How do you acquire someone?

[00:31:44] How do you delegate things?

[00:31:46] All of these things are essentially in this book.

[00:31:49] So, definitely, definitely read that.

[00:31:52] That's something that I would really recommend.

[00:31:54] And for a leisure book, I haven't got it in a lot of leisure books.

[00:32:02] But, yeah, Zero to One and Radical Candle is one of my favorite, or a couple of my favorite books that I'm going through right now.

[00:32:14] Beautiful.

[00:32:15] Well, I'll get those added to the Spotify playlist and the Amazon Wiestlist.

[00:32:19] And I'm conscious to join our conversation today.

[00:32:21] We've been incredibly forward-focusing, looking at what's coming in the future and where we're heading.

[00:32:26] But I'd love to take you back to the beginning of your career now, because none of us are able to achieve any success with a little help along the way.

[00:32:33] And very often we encounter people on our journey who maybe see something in us, invest a little time, and just someone that helps lift us up.

[00:32:42] So, I'm curious.

[00:32:43] Is there a particular person that you're grateful towards that maybe helped you get you where you are today that we can give a little shout-out and a little thank you to today?

[00:32:51] I think there are hundreds, not this one.

[00:32:56] We started our journey by writing this small email to Ethereum Foundation, wherein we said that this is something that we feel is very needed and very free.

[00:33:08] And they basically said that that's very cool, but we don't give grants to ideas.

[00:33:13] So, why don't you build it out during ETH Global?

[00:33:18] And that was kind of like a setback to me at that point.

[00:33:25] But what made us go to ETH Global and what made us to continue building on the product was those very personalized lines that Ethereum Foundation wrote, which basically meant that they've gone through the tech.

[00:33:38] And then they were suggesting, like, these are the past works that you can learn from.

[00:33:44] And this is something that you can build on.

[00:33:46] And these are some people that you can interact with.

[00:33:50] That was probably the only tidbit that helped us going forward.

[00:33:54] Because otherwise, it's like, why would I build it without any money?

[00:33:58] I'm not earning anything.

[00:34:00] And, you know, all those things come into your mind.

[00:34:03] So, that is probably a shout-out to Ethereum Foundation.

[00:34:06] Like, from then to now, every time we need help, they have helped us.

[00:34:12] Even after we built this ETH Global thing out, and when we went back and they were like, okay, very cool, what can we do to help?

[00:34:19] Then we said that we want to do this instead of asking for a grant.

[00:34:23] And then they connected us to this ETH Global founder, Karthik Talwar.

[00:34:30] And they were like, let me request Karthik Talwar.

[00:34:34] And then they connected us to Kevin O'Waqi as well because Gitcoin round 7 was coming.

[00:34:38] And EPNS is the top three apps over there.

[00:34:41] But yeah, they kind of started connecting us to these people.

[00:34:46] The reason they connected us to Karthik was because we said that we want to raise.

[00:34:51] So, they were like, okay, let's work on your pitch.

[00:34:54] And the funny thing is, I came on this call with Karthik.

[00:34:58] And at that point, I didn't know how to create a deck.

[00:35:01] I didn't know how to pitch, right?

[00:35:03] So, I ended up giving him two hours long pitch.

[00:35:08] And he listened patiently.

[00:35:10] And then he put down all the feedback.

[00:35:12] And he was like, let's try it again the next week.

[00:35:15] And I basically listened to his feedback.

[00:35:18] And I cut down everything that he said that, you know, it's not needed.

[00:35:23] But basically, I added additional stuff.

[00:35:26] So, it was again two hours the next week.

[00:35:28] But he was listening to it patiently again.

[00:35:32] And this happened for a couple of times before it got in short into this 10 to 15 minute format.

[00:35:38] So, I would say a huge shout out to Karthik and ETH Global and Ethereum Foundation.

[00:35:45] Because they are the reasons why we are here.

[00:35:48] And of course, after that, there are 100 other people that have helped us in one way or the other.

[00:35:54] Absolutely love that.

[00:35:55] What a great story.

[00:35:57] And so important to share that and get it out there.

[00:35:59] But anyone listening, whether they're a new member of your community, just want to find out a bit more.

[00:36:05] Or maybe they even want to join your community.

[00:36:07] Where's the best starting point for all things Push Protocol?

[00:36:10] Where would you like to point them?

[00:36:12] Sure.

[00:36:13] Like, the best way is go to push.org, P-U-S-H dot O-R-G.

[00:36:17] Scroll all the way down.

[00:36:18] You'll see Twitter, Discord, whatever you want to do.

[00:36:22] Go join from there.

[00:36:23] If you want to find us directly on Twitter, it's pushprotocol, P-U-S-H protocol.

[00:36:30] And yeah, in case you want to follow me, it's my first name and last name.

[00:36:34] I'm sure I said.

[00:36:36] But yeah, just follow Push and you'll probably see me tweeting and then you can follow.

[00:36:41] So yeah.

[00:36:42] Awesome.

[00:36:43] Crypto Twitter is the place to be.

[00:36:45] Well, I love chatting with you again today.

[00:36:47] As you say, it's been two years.

[00:36:48] We've been on quite a journey from Pushnodes to Proof of State Network and making Push come closer to becoming that blockchain of communication.

[00:36:57] And it sounds like you've got a few more things to share next year.

[00:37:01] So on that, there was an open invitation to join me again next year.

[00:37:04] But more than anything, just thanks for joining me again today, Harsh.

[00:37:08] Thanks, Neil.

[00:37:09] Always a pleasure to join in and always a pleasure to share all the things Push and my personal journey with you.

[00:37:16] So as we wrap up today's conversation, I think Harsh has given us a clear view of how Push Protocol is redefining communication in Web3.

[00:37:25] From sending over 110 billion notifications to sharing the launch of Push V3, its innovative features and the protocol's vision for a decentralized, scalable communication and how it's truly transforming this space.

[00:37:43] And I think with privacy and end-to-end encryption at its core, what lessons can businesses and developers take from this to build better engagement in Web3?

[00:37:53] And what are those key challenges that lie ahead?

[00:37:57] What's holding you back?

[00:37:58] How are you going to tackle them?

[00:38:00] Harsh has shown us the future of communication in Web3.

[00:38:03] It's not just decentralized, but deeply user-focused.

[00:38:07] So what steps will you be taking to adapt in this space?

[00:38:12] As always, email me now, techblogwriteroutlook.com, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, just at Neil C. Hughes.

[00:38:18] Love to hear your thoughts on this one.

[00:38:20] But I've taken up far too much of your time today, so thanks for listening as always, and I will speak with you all bright and early tomorrow.