3073: Future-Proofing Talent With Kelly Science, Engineering, Technology & Telecom

[00:00:03] How can organisations navigate this rapidly evolving landscape of workforce management, especially in the science, engineering, technology and telecom sectors?

[00:00:15] Well today I'm going to be joined by the President of Kelly Science, where together we're going to explore this topic.

[00:00:21] And we're going to talk about the mixed labour strategies that Hugo champions and how combining full-time hires with temporary and project-based workers can enhance organisational agility and competitiveness.

[00:00:35] And hopefully we'll also discuss the recent decline in temp labour usage despite economic growth and explore the reasons behind this unusual trend.

[00:00:44] And Hugo will also share valuable advice for mid-career professionals in tech industries, emphasising the importance of continuous upskilling and maintaining a mindset of curiosity.

[00:00:57] So whether you are in leadership, HR or simply interested in the future of work, this conversation is packed with insights that will help you navigate the complexities of today's workforce.

[00:01:08] But enough from me. Let's get Hugo onto the podcast right now.

[00:01:12] So a massive warm welcome to the show, Hugo.

[00:01:17] Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:01:21] Thanks, Neil. I'm fortunate to head up the Science, Technology, Telecom and Engineering group of businesses at Kelly Services.

[00:01:29] We provide people and projects and outsourcing solutions to a range of clients in North America.

[00:01:34] So for someone who's a card-carrying nerd and loves these disciplines, this is a dream job.

[00:01:40] I'm involved in helping our clients do some of the most interesting technical work in the world, I think.

[00:01:47] And then personally, I live in Chicago with my family.

[00:01:50] I came to the US with two suitcases about 20 years ago and I've been here ever since.

[00:01:55] Oh, what a great story. I love that. A card-carrying nerd turned up in the US with two suitcases.

[00:02:00] And I always like to delve a little bit deeper into my guest's origin story.

[00:02:06] And looking at yours here, I'm curious.

[00:02:08] The big question I've got to ask is how did your background in electronic engineering,

[00:02:13] how did that shape your approach to leading Kelly Science Engineering, Technology and Telecom,

[00:02:18] especially in the context of today's rapidly evolving workforce needs?

[00:02:22] Because it's moving faster than ever now, isn't it?

[00:02:25] It is astonishing. I think there are a few skills that you pick up as you train to be an electronic engineer.

[00:02:32] Perhaps the most important is you learn to smell smoke and shut your circuit off really quickly.

[00:02:38] And you could argue that in business, that's a pretty valuable skill too.

[00:02:43] But I think it does give you a bit of an instinct for the way the technical skills are evolving.

[00:02:50] And it allows you to understand perhaps a bit more fundamentally when you speak to your clients,

[00:02:57] what sort of skills they need, not just today, but will need in the future in this rapidly evolving world.

[00:03:04] And of course, the other thing that you do learn as an engineer is an analytical approach to problem solving.

[00:03:10] You've got to develop the discipline not to stay with the analysis, but to rapidly pivot to action.

[00:03:15] But that's certainly helpful as well.

[00:03:17] And obviously for people listening and hearing about you for the first time,

[00:03:21] Kelly is a staffing agency with technical expertise for recruiting scientists, technology solutions,

[00:03:28] engineering staffing and government solutions.

[00:03:29] But here in the UK, the thing that put you on my radar was that you've made some pretty significant acquisitions recently,

[00:03:36] like Softworld and motion recruitment partners.

[00:03:39] So I've got to ask, how have those acquisitions impacted Kelly's ability to address the talent demands of the science, engineering, tech and telecom sectors?

[00:03:49] Because it's a huge competitive space and there's almost a scramble for talent out there at the moment.

[00:03:54] But I'm curious the impact that this has had.

[00:03:56] It's been very beneficial for us to be able to bring great companies like Softworld and motion that you refer to into the Kelly family for a few reasons.

[00:04:06] The one is simply scale.

[00:04:08] The fact that it creates even broader exposure to the job opportunities and to the interesting projects ongoing in the US,

[00:04:16] allow us to offer candidates an even broader range of possible jobs out there.

[00:04:23] And conversely, when we're looking at it from the client side, it also allows us an even broader talent base to offer to our clients as they're seeking to solve their technical problems.

[00:04:35] So scale is significant.

[00:04:38] But I think perhaps more importantly, it also brought us some really new capabilities.

[00:04:43] Every one of these companies were deeply specialized in certain areas.

[00:04:48] It could be finding secure talent to work on some sophisticated government technical projects or projects for the defense industry.

[00:04:56] Or it could just be deep expertise in certain elements of InfoSec work for financial services.

[00:05:05] But every one of these companies brought some of these deep technical capabilities to us that we didn't have before.

[00:05:11] And that's been exciting.

[00:05:13] But I think most importantly, ultimately, it brought us great people.

[00:05:17] There are just such talented individuals working in Softworld and in motion.

[00:05:21] And when you add these to the great team we already had in Kelly, it means we just have a formidable team of people bringing very different perspectives sometimes.

[00:05:31] But that ultimately stimulates innovation and diversity of thinking and makes us more effective in the market.

[00:05:38] And one of the things I wanted to try and demystify and zoom in on a little bit today is the concept of mixed labor strategies

[00:05:47] and how combining full-time hires with temporary and project-based workers can enhance an organization's agility and competitiveness.

[00:05:57] Can you expand on that, what you're seeing and what excites you and anything that you're seeing out there at the moment?

[00:06:03] Yeah, mixed labor as an approach to optimizing your business performance has long been something that's been in use both in Europe and in the US and in Asia.

[00:06:14] But the way we see it very often utilized by our clients is they look at areas where they're going to need specialized skills for a finite period of time to do a piece of research, to complete a specific project.

[00:06:27] And for those sorts of activities, they turn to an organization like ourselves, where we can find those specialized individuals that have exactly the right skill and provide them to the client for whatever that temporary period is.

[00:06:43] Now, in some cases, they then elect to bring them on permanently into their workforce.

[00:06:48] And that's a win-win for everybody concerned.

[00:06:51] But in other cases, when the project is complete, then we do our best to find the next project for those folks.

[00:06:58] And we've had many people that we've worked with for many years, in some cases, an entire career moving from one interesting project to another because they like to stay working on the absolute cutting edge and they like the variety.

[00:07:11] But that mix of temporary individuals bringing specialized skills for a period of time and then a larger permanent workforce that creates the continuity that you want ultimately can provide an optimal outcome for companies, especially in the technical field.

[00:07:28] The other benefit to a mixed labor strategy that our clients speak about frequently is simply the ability to respond to fluctuations in demand.

[00:07:38] If things are moving ever faster and fluctuations in demand happen, it seems lately on a dime.

[00:07:46] And so for a company that has a part of its workforce on a temporary basis, it simply allows them to scale up very quickly if they've built that muscle, as it were, with some very reliable partners that they work with and the ability to incorporate the temporary workers into their organization.

[00:08:04] But it also allows them to scale down if there's a negative trend in demand.

[00:08:09] And that flexibility ultimately protects their bottom line.

[00:08:13] So you get over economic cycles a more profitable outcome if a company makes thoughtful use of mixed labor.

[00:08:20] And one of the reasons I wanted to shine a light on this today is I've recently read that the labor mix in the US has shifted dramatically away from temporary labor in a surprising way.

[00:08:31] So what were the key factors that led to the decline in temp employment despite overall job growth from 2022 to 2024?

[00:08:40] What have you seen here and why do you think this is so significant?

[00:08:44] It really is interesting and unusual if you look at the history of temp labor in the US.

[00:08:50] Typically, if you're in a period where there is solid GDP growth around 3% or so, like we've seen for the past 18 months,

[00:08:58] and also a fairly tight labor market with unemployment, you know, 4% or less, which is also what we've seen.

[00:09:05] That creates an environment where companies turn to staffing agencies and they add temporary labor.

[00:09:12] They're adding the labor because their business is growing, the economy is growing, and they've got projects that they want to complete.

[00:09:19] And so they bring in folks to do that to support the growth.

[00:09:22] And because there's a relatively tight labor market, it's also somewhat difficult for them to find people on their own.

[00:09:28] And that's where a staffing organization like Kelly that has hundreds of recruiters specialized in different areas can be very helpful.

[00:09:38] But despite those favorable macroeconomic indicators, GDP growth and low unemployment,

[00:09:45] we've seen a significant decline in temp labor penetration over the last 18 months.

[00:09:52] And temp labor penetration is simply the percentage of temporary workers divided by the total number of workers out there.

[00:09:59] This is, in good economic times, typically been around 2% or so, but it's dropped over the last 18 months to around 1.7% today.

[00:10:10] Now, that may not sound like a big deal, 2% down to 1.7%, but if that 2% represents a whole industry,

[00:10:18] which is the staffing industry today, and it drops to 1.7%, about 15% of that industry is evaporated.

[00:10:24] That's very unusual for a time of economic growth.

[00:10:30] So the question is why?

[00:10:31] And after quite extensive research inside Kelly, we concluded that what's driven this is a fear of near-term downturn.

[00:10:43] So over the last year, if you think back and even more recently,

[00:10:48] there's been constant predictions of a recession just around the corner.

[00:10:53] We were all expecting the recession to hit next month.

[00:10:56] And a lot of the economic forecasters were talking about the imminent recession.

[00:11:01] So we think what's happened is companies have decided to postpone the short-term projects

[00:11:08] and the short-term activities that typically lead them to use temporary labor.

[00:11:14] So it's a response to near-term anxiety because of a negative near-term outlook.

[00:11:20] But paradoxically, the companies have hired permanent people quite heartily over that same period.

[00:11:27] Every month, the jobs figures would come out and there'd be another several hundred thousand jobs created.

[00:11:33] And we think an investment in permanent hiring like companies have been doing

[00:11:38] signaled and is in response to a belief that the medium-term outlook is quite positive.

[00:11:43] And again, that makes sense.

[00:11:45] In the medium term, we'll, at least in the US, get some level of electoral certainty one way or the other.

[00:11:51] And there's also increasingly the belief that there will be interest rate declines in the medium term.

[00:11:57] So you had this peculiar situation where there was anxiety about the near term.

[00:12:03] And that inhibited the use of temp labor on shorter-term projects.

[00:12:08] But there was a positive outlook on the medium term.

[00:12:12] And therefore, companies still hired to beef up their capacity in anticipation of a good medium-term growth rate.

[00:12:21] That's analogous to the so-called inverted yield curve that you find in financial services,

[00:12:27] where sometimes near-term risk is viewed as higher than longer-term risk.

[00:12:34] It's an unusual thing.

[00:12:36] And it typically reverts to a more normalized situation where you think the near term is more predictable and therefore less risky.

[00:12:43] And the longer term is a little more uncertain and therefore riskier.

[00:12:47] And so we think also in our world, ultimately, we will see a reversion to a normalized situation where you'll see temp labor penetration rates bounce back.

[00:12:59] But at least for now, we're still living in a world where there's an unnaturally low level of temp labor use.

[00:13:07] And the labor mix in that mixed labor strategy we talked about is skewed more towards permanent labor and away from temp labor in a strange way.

[00:13:17] For an economy that's growing and for a fairly tight labor market.

[00:13:22] And obviously, with AI increasingly becoming a part of every workforce strategy,

[00:13:28] how do you see organizations embracing AI to ultimately future-proof themselves?

[00:13:33] And also, what kind of role do you see Kelly playing in this transformation too?

[00:13:38] Well, it's been interesting to us and Kelly to see the rapid evolution in job descriptions.

[00:13:43] We're being asked to find people like prompt engineer or even AI bias analyst, which are jobs I'm pretty sure did not exist two years ago.

[00:13:53] Our clients seem to be taking very different approaches.

[00:13:56] Some of them that have businesses that are highly analytical, that because of the transactional nature of the business,

[00:14:03] this generates a huge volume of data, have gone all in on deploying AI at the heart of their business to try and find more efficient ways of doing things.

[00:14:15] And I would class Kelly in this role have looked for ways to use AI in small point applications to make people's daily lives more efficient.

[00:14:26] And this can be something as simple as writing an email, first draft, of course, because ultimately you always need to take a look at it as a human.

[00:14:35] But also things that for us has been helpful, things like reformatting resumes, taking a first stab at a job description,

[00:14:43] writing a job description to appeal to a particular demographic.

[00:14:46] All those sorts of fundamentally language manipulation tasks, the AI tools out there, specifically the large language models seem to be particularly good at.

[00:14:57] And so I'd say our clients have segmented into the two groups, the one group that finds AI at the heart of its business.

[00:15:06] And somewhere in financial services, you might find an example of that or two.

[00:15:10] But then the other group, which I think is larger, where they're finding ways to, in simple but useful applications,

[00:15:18] use AI to make their people more productive and help their employees ultimately focus on more interesting parts of the job

[00:15:25] and leave the somewhat more mundane pieces to AI.

[00:15:29] I've recently read that the average retirement age is expected to reach 67 by 2030.

[00:15:34] But that starkly contrasts with reality, where the average age for a tech worker, for example, now, is between 29 and 38 years old.

[00:15:44] It's rife with ages in the tech industry.

[00:15:46] And mid-career professionals across science, engineering, technology and telecom industry often face unique challenges as a result.

[00:15:54] So what strategies do you recommend for helping these people stay competitive and continue to achieve success in these fields?

[00:16:02] I think increasingly what we're seeing is that the technology side of things, and this is specifically true in IT, evolves and continues to evolve so fast

[00:16:13] that people become accustomed to fairly frequently re-skilling themselves.

[00:16:19] And as a mid-career professional, my advice would be, or for a mid-career professional, my advice would be,

[00:16:26] don't stop doing that.

[00:16:28] Assume that for the rest of your career, you're going to have to learn new platforms, new programming languages, new development environments,

[00:16:39] new coding libraries, and the like forever.

[00:16:43] The mindset that gets you there is to really stay curious, keep investigating, keep experimenting.

[00:16:50] There's so much available content.

[00:16:53] There's so much free content.

[00:16:55] There's so much free training out there that by devoting just an hour or two a week to looking around at what seems to be the most interesting trends

[00:17:03] and in an intellectually curious way, just tinkering with new things and availing yourself of all the free content and opportunities out there,

[00:17:12] it's actually comparatively easy to stay current, more so than it's been in the past where you had to enroll in a formal course or go and sit in a classroom or order a bunch of books and study them.

[00:17:26] So that would be my main piece of advice.

[00:17:28] Just stay curious and stay current.

[00:17:30] And if you do that, there's really no reason why you ever have to retire except by choice.

[00:17:36] That's fantastic advice.

[00:17:38] And as an advisor to several technology startups too, I'm curious, how do you see the role of disruptive innovation influencing the future of workforce solutions?

[00:17:49] Any advice that you'd give to organizations maybe looking to stay ahead of some of the big industry trends that we're seeing now?

[00:17:56] The advice that I'd give to some of the startups that I speak to is find a real problem to solve and then go and solve it in a way that makes people's life easier.

[00:18:11] But don't dream up the solution without continually seeking feedback from the folks that you expect to ultimately use it.

[00:18:19] It's really easy to sit in an office or wherever you're starting your business, in a basement or in a garage with a few colleagues and get very excited about a potential solution to a problem that you believe exists

[00:18:33] and go quite far down the path, even to the point of raising money and spending money and be somewhat disconnected from the folks who you ultimately expect to be your customers.

[00:18:45] So my advice is always stay really close to the people that you ultimately expect to be using this.

[00:18:52] The quicker you can get a simple prototype in front of them that they can play with, even if you have to do it for free, but give something out there to people who are going to be using it that they can use day to day.

[00:19:04] They'll give you some feedback really quickly that might pivot your thinking in very different and potentially much more productive directions.

[00:19:13] Well, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with me and share your insights today.

[00:19:18] But before I let you go, I want to ask you to share one final gift with everyone listening.

[00:19:23] I always ask my guests to leave either a book that means something to them we can add to our Amazon wishlist for listeners to check or a song to add to our Spotify playlist.

[00:19:32] I don't mind what you leave, but what would you like to leave and why?

[00:19:36] Well, I'd be delighted to leave a book, but I can't possibly leave just one.

[00:19:40] Okay.

[00:19:41] I'll have to give you a few.

[00:19:43] I really enjoyed reading The Martian a few years ago by Andy Weir.

[00:19:50] It was such an unabashed celebration of scientific thinking and practical engineering.

[00:19:56] And I love the fact that after it was published, all the nerds out there, of course, immediately identified some of the errors in the science.

[00:20:05] And Andy gleefully, I think, and happily acknowledged these, but it's just the engagement around this.

[00:20:13] I think he describes the rocket being tipped over by a windstorm.

[00:20:16] And people quickly pointed out that the atmospheric pressure on Mars is not sufficient for the winds that he described to actually tip over a rocket.

[00:20:24] Another book that I enjoyed for different reasons is The Alchemist by Paolo Cullo.

[00:20:30] It was just such an inspiring description of how you can follow your dreams, even if they seem impossible or irrational, and discover a lot about yourself along the way.

[00:20:42] And then finally, I'll mention a book that for me was very meaningful when I read it is Men at Arms, which is the first in the Sword of Honor trilogy by Yvonne Wall about an individual's experience in the Second World War.

[00:20:56] It just always reminds me, as I occasionally dip back into them, that the peace and prosperity that we take for granted is not really the norm, and that it was earned in battle, and that we should appreciate it as such.

[00:21:11] And it's still preserved today by people who serve and create the wonderful environment that we can live in and enjoy every day.

[00:21:20] Oh, some great choices there.

[00:21:22] I think somebody recently recommended Andy Weir's one of his other books.

[00:21:27] I think it was Project Hail Mary.

[00:21:28] I've not read that yet, but that comes strongly recommended as well.

[00:21:32] But all three of those books, I will get added to the wish list so people can find them nice and easy.

[00:21:37] But what about yourself?

[00:21:38] Anyone listening wanting to find out more about you, your team, or dig a little bit deeper on any of the topics we explored today, including the white paper we referenced?

[00:21:49] Where would you like to point everyone?

[00:21:51] Perhaps the easiest place to find me is on LinkedIn.

[00:21:54] There's not that many people with my name, Hugo Molan, M-A-L-A-N, on there.

[00:22:00] And then if folks wanted to find the white paper, it's available on the Kelly SET website.

[00:22:06] SET is the name of the operating division within Kelly for which I'm responsible.

[00:22:10] It's science, engineering, technology, and telecom.

[00:22:12] But if you go to kellyservices.com and navigate from there, all the rest is easy to find.

[00:22:18] Well, so many big takeaways from our conversation today.

[00:22:22] From creating adaptable and resilient workforces and embracing AI to future-proof organizations,

[00:22:28] to talking about the challenges mid-career professionals face in the industry and sharing insights on better positioning them for success.

[00:22:36] And there's a whole heap of other incredible insights in there, too.

[00:22:40] I urge people to reach out to you and your team if they want to find out more information and equally check out that white paper.

[00:22:46] But more than anything, just thank you for sitting down with me, sharing those insights.

[00:22:50] Thanks again.

[00:22:51] My pleasure, Neil.

[00:22:52] Thank you for the invitation.

[00:22:53] So as we wrap up today's discussion, I think it's clear the future of work in science, engineering, technology, and telecom sectors will all be defined by adaptability, continuous learning, strategic use of AI.

[00:23:07] And Hugo highlighted how mixed labor strategies can also provide the flexibility needed to stay competitive in a dynamic market.

[00:23:16] And also why it's crucial for mid-career professionals to remain curious and proactive in their upskilling efforts.

[00:23:22] It was also great to hear about some of Kelly's recent acquisitions and the role of AI in transforming workforce management.

[00:23:29] I think it underscores the importance of innovation in maintaining a leading position throughout the industry.

[00:23:35] But reflecting on today's conversation, consider how your organization can leverage the strategies we discussed today to build a more resilient and adaptable workforce in your organization.

[00:23:48] Whether that's through embracing AI to enhance productivity or adopting a more flexible labor model.

[00:23:54] The opportunities are there for those willing to innovate.

[00:23:58] But that's it for today.

[00:23:59] So until our next episode, think about this.

[00:24:01] How will you position your workforce to not only meet the demands of today, but also thrive in the opportunities of tomorrow?

[00:24:09] I'm going to let you marinate on that thought for a while, but I will be back bright and early tomorrow with another guest.

[00:24:15] Hopefully you'll join me again now.

[00:24:17] Speak to you all tomorrow.

[00:24:23] Bye.