3081: From Supercomputers to Reality Emulators: Tech Insights from the University of Bristol

[00:00:03] What role does technology play in shaping the future of research and education, especially in environments that you wouldn't traditionally consider tech-centric?

[00:00:15] Well, today we're going to explore this question at VMware Explore in Barcelona, where industry leaders are redefining what's possible through digital transformation.

[00:00:26] And as part of that, I'm thrilled to be welcoming Keith Woolley onto the podcast. He is the Chief Digital Information Officer at the University of Bristol, and he's going to share his insights from one of the world's top universities.

[00:00:41] And Keith is not only responsible for ensuring that the University of Bristol's digital strategy aligns with its ambitious research goals, but he's also championing innovative approaches.

[00:00:52] approaches that bring together physical and digital campus experiences.

[00:00:58] So whether that be from pioneering high-performance computing to deploying boundaryless education tools,

[00:01:06] Keith's work highlights how cloud and digital services are transforming education.

[00:01:11] So, big question. How is technology supporting Bristol's vision for research and academic success?

[00:01:18] And what challenges lie ahead in balancing flexibility, cost, compliance, and so much more?

[00:01:26] Well, it's time to explore all these ideas and more and even a few surprises along the way as I beam your ears all the way to the show floor here in Barcelona to welcome Keith to the show.

[00:01:37] So, a massive warm welcome to the show. Can I tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:01:44] Thank you very much, Dale. So, my name is Keith Woolley. I am the Chief Digital Information Officer at the University of Bristol.

[00:01:51] The university is one of the top 100 universities in the world.

[00:01:54] We focus very heavily on our research endeavour where we have 94% of our research technologies are being world class.

[00:02:04] And my responsibility is to ensure as part of the overall university leadership team that we're setting the strategy correct for how we want to operate our research and educational endeavour.

[00:02:14] And then I am providing the right digital tools to enable that strategy to actually operate.

[00:02:20] Well, thank you for joining me today. And on this podcast every day, I try and get people thinking differently about the impact that tech has on industries that you don't automatically associate with tech.

[00:02:31] So, can you set the scene and tell everyone listening around the world about the tech running behind the scenes of University of Bristol?

[00:02:38] Because I don't think they automatically associate it as a tech company.

[00:02:42] That's a really interesting point, Neil, because when I first came into the university, I was quite surprised about the amount of variation of technology that we have.

[00:02:52] So, of course, as an organisation, and to put that into context, we're about 35,000 students, about 8,000 employees, and we operate around 300 buildings across the city campus.

[00:03:04] So, it's a complex environment that we operate in. So, you'd think, okay, what type of tech tools do we have? So, we have the normal tools that you'd expect.

[00:03:13] So, we have a lot of virtualisation tools in the background, high-quality networks to make sure we can do the normal standard connectivity, everything you would expect to see in a normal enterprise.

[00:03:24] But then we step into the research world. And when we step into the research world, that's where it gets really cool.

[00:03:29] So, this is where we have some of our own high-performance computing and our own AI computing capability running some of the leading, bleeding-edge technologies that you'd ever expect.

[00:03:41] We move around petabytes of data on a daily basis. We have petabytes of storage that we need to be able to access.

[00:03:48] So, there's a massive piece of tech sitting behind it. And the way we look at our university, it's a digital campus.

[00:03:57] And it's the physical and the digital coming together that really gives the student experience that we need.

[00:04:03] And that goes right across all of our research in all of our different disciplines, right from ensuring that we can teach the STEM subjects and the data subjects and the AI subjects that we're starting to see,

[00:04:15] which we've been doing for many, many years, but we're starting to see really come to the fore,

[00:04:20] all the way through to running your ERP solutions and your HR solutions that everybody else does.

[00:04:25] Wow. And I've got to ask, can you tell me a little bit more about your journey with VMware at the University of Bristol

[00:04:30] and why it plays such a critical role in the value that it brings to your students and the university at large?

[00:04:36] Because I feel there's got to be a story there somewhere too.

[00:04:39] Well, I've been a VMware customer for, well, for as long as I can remember.

[00:04:43] And one of the things that VMware does, it gives you flexibility.

[00:04:49] So we were able, and as an organization, especially as a research intensive organization, what we need to be able to do is to tap into all types of different platforms.

[00:04:59] So we work with our hyperscalers like everybody else does, but we also have to make sure that we can do very, very good cost control.

[00:05:06] And we have to manage a lot of complexity, whilst also making sure that we are staying compliant, which is another story for another day on the complexities of compliance in an organization of our nature.

[00:05:18] It's a very complicated environment to be with.

[00:05:20] So having the ability to make sure that I'm managing our costs well, and to put that into context, we can't pass cost increase into our customer base.

[00:05:32] It's a fixed cost.

[00:05:34] And we're very, as an organization, we want to make sure that we are making sure we're getting value for money for our students.

[00:05:40] We're investing their student fees well, and we're putting technology platforms in place that will give a really good return on investment.

[00:05:48] So the VMware strategy that we put in has been six years old since I've been at the university.

[00:05:56] And we put it there to make sure that we were able to control our costs, but give flexibility to our academic community.

[00:06:04] One of the things I wanted to be able to do is to take out the actual restriction of our IT department and our IT organization from our academics.

[00:06:15] So rather than raising a ticket and asking for a service or a server to be set up, I wanted to be able to turn around to them and say, well, it's like a cloud-based service.

[00:06:24] It's self-service and you have control.

[00:06:27] VMware allowed us to do that.

[00:06:28] So we were able to set our strategy up and our digital strategy had the whole philosophy of boundaryless educational research, where we were looking to actually remove the boundaries of how you would consume your research or education.

[00:06:43] If you were to come to the university of Bristol, allowing you to be able to access that from anywhere subject to having a device and an internet connection.

[00:06:52] And with the platform that VMware was offering at the time and with their future roadmap to what's now become virtual cloud foundation server, we were able to build ourselves a robust strategy that would grow with us.

[00:07:06] And with allow me to start putting resources into pools that we could then actually redistribute as and when required for our research communities.

[00:07:14] So it gave us significant flexibility.

[00:07:17] We now run multiple instances of the VMware platform.

[00:07:23] We don't run it as instances because we've set up silos.

[00:07:28] We've actually run an instance because we've built research tools on it as well.

[00:07:32] So we've been in a very fortunate position that as an organization, we have one of the first reality emulators in the world, which allows us to do digital twinning.

[00:07:42] It allows us to then start doing sensory technologies as well.

[00:07:45] And that sits on the basis of the VCF platform because it is a platform of capability and it's agnostic to the workloads that we use.

[00:07:55] So it gives us significant flexibility in what we're trying to achieve.

[00:07:59] And so what we're able to do on the different platforms that we have right now is we can run, as I say, a steady state organization like any corporation would.

[00:08:08] But we can then also run flexible tools where I need to one day put a significant amount of GPU capability and CPU capability to a particular task and then recycle that back in.

[00:08:20] And that is the key thing for what we're trying to do with research.

[00:08:24] And one of the things that surprised me here at the event is the focus on public cloud to on-prem private cloud.

[00:08:31] It's something I didn't really see coming.

[00:08:33] So I was a little behind the curve on this.

[00:08:35] What do you think is driving this change?

[00:08:37] Is it AI?

[00:08:39] Is it data sovereignty?

[00:08:40] Or is it something else?

[00:08:41] I think personally, I think it's a maturity that's happening in the sector.

[00:08:47] And again, I think it's one of those where we're seeing technology change again.

[00:08:51] We often, as you know, we go through these life sites.

[00:08:54] We look at the cloud as somebody else's mainframe back in the day.

[00:08:57] So we're seeing technology maturing.

[00:09:00] And I think what's happening now is that we're realizing that one size doesn't fit all and that we need to have the right workloads in the right environments.

[00:09:09] And I think the hyperscalers have done a fantastic job.

[00:09:12] I really do.

[00:09:13] They've revolutionized the way in which we can operate.

[00:09:16] They've empowered many organizations to rapidly deploy into capability.

[00:09:24] So it's been a fantastic journey to go on.

[00:09:27] But when we think how the cloud originated and the fact that it was there for prototyping rather than actually running steady state organizations, there's now, I think, a time where we're going to have to start thinking of resetting some of that expectation.

[00:09:40] Because, yes, cost is starting to drive.

[00:09:45] Demand is driving that cost because people are wanting more and more of those types of services.

[00:09:49] But also, we are seeing that some workloads are more suited and should be more suited to being run on-prem in a data center.

[00:09:59] But, and this is the difference of what we're seeing now with what Broadcom and VMware are doing, but as though it's in a cloud.

[00:10:08] And that makes a very big difference to the way in which, as an IT department, as a senior leader of an organization, we get one pane of glass now.

[00:10:18] And we can see all of our resources in one place.

[00:10:22] But for our actual staff, for our customers, they are able to just operate as though they're in the cloud.

[00:10:28] So it's a simple set of situations for them.

[00:10:31] They don't have to worry about going into the IT department to stand up a box.

[00:10:35] And those are the type of things that I think we're starting to see.

[00:10:38] Is AI driving it?

[00:10:40] There's many factors, I think, driving it.

[00:10:42] When I speak to UK government, especially, they are very concerned around data sovereignty.

[00:10:49] Absolutely.

[00:10:51] They want to know where things are compliant and protected and secure.

[00:10:56] They want to understand what the security is around certain things.

[00:11:00] And the hyperscalers will turn around and they are doing this.

[00:11:05] They are very clear that they are investing billions of dollars in cybersecurity to make sure that their platforms are secure.

[00:11:12] But there's also a lot of complexity in their platforms because they're multi-tenanted.

[00:11:16] And we're in a position where we too are investing significantly in cybersecurity to make sure that the way in which we operate our university is world leading.

[00:11:26] But we have limited ingress and egress points compared to a hyperscaler.

[00:11:30] So it's one of those where you're able to balance that up.

[00:11:35] And so I think there's multiple things driving it.

[00:11:37] I think the whole world of cybersecurity is going to change dramatically in the next three to five years.

[00:11:44] It's going to be more about giving than taking.

[00:11:47] Mm-hmm.

[00:11:47] Because as people start building large language models that are particular to their business and particular to the way in which they're going to have potential capital gain in the marketplace from the learnings they're going to get from those.

[00:12:02] And if you were to contaminate that large language model, then all of a sudden you're in a position where you're having a different type of cyber attack.

[00:12:10] And so we're already as an organization working with our academic community and our students looking at how we can start modeling those type of things.

[00:12:19] And I think what will happen as we go forward and as universities go forward, we're going to need to build platforms that will allow companies to be able to come in with our research and to be able to design and develop their large language models in secure environments.

[00:12:34] And then I think they'll want to be able to put them back into a potentially safe data center environment where they know where it is.

[00:12:41] So it's going to be an interesting one to watch.

[00:12:45] It's a personal opinion, not particularly a university opinion, but I'm seeing that if you're going to build something that is going to give you competitive advantage, you will want to know where it is.

[00:12:58] And I think having it in a hyperscaler may be a challenge that people may not want to take with that level of data.

[00:13:05] And you mentioned the UK government there, and it's what, nearly a year has passed since the government revealed a 225 million investment to create the UK's fastest supercomputer at the University of Bristol.

[00:13:18] So can you tell the listeners a little bit more about that and also where you are now 12 months later?

[00:13:23] Well, I'm very proud on this one.

[00:13:25] So 12 months ago, it was one of those where people didn't think it was possible.

[00:13:32] I'm pleased to be able to tell your listeners today, we now have one of the world's fastest supercomputers.

[00:13:37] It's up, it's running, it's doing what it's meant to do.

[00:13:40] The first phase of that, it's a two-phased implementation that we've done.

[00:13:43] The first phase of that implementation was live in the summer.

[00:13:46] We have completely changed the way in which you would go about deploying a high-performance computer, supercomputer of this nature.

[00:13:52] We did it in a, we did the whole project in less than six months, from concept to actual supply chain to actual build.

[00:14:01] This supercomputer, just for your listeners, is to put some context around it.

[00:14:05] This thing's going to be sitting with over 5,500 GH200 Grasshopper supercomputer GPU chips in it.

[00:14:13] It is the fastest in the UK.

[00:14:16] It's one of the fastest in Europe.

[00:14:17] It's sitting in the top 100 in the world right now, and it's the second most greenest supercomputer ever to be made.

[00:14:23] The first was made to be green, so this was fantastic.

[00:14:27] The power consumption on it is unbelievable considering the output that it's got.

[00:14:32] And it can process large language models, some of the largest language models in less than seven days.

[00:14:38] So it is a game-changer in supercomputing.

[00:14:41] Now, obviously, when the UK government announced this back in November in 2023,

[00:14:48] and that was announced at the AI Security Summit in the UK,

[00:14:52] with the intention that we start to really look at AI safety and trustworthiness of AI going forward.

[00:14:58] And so we are making sure that our research endeavors are focusing into those areas.

[00:15:04] We are working with a lot of our wider global academic communities to make sure that we can start putting workloads on that have a meaningful difference.

[00:15:14] But yeah, we've got the main supercomputers up and running.

[00:15:18] And this is, again, thanks to a lot of partners around the world.

[00:15:23] We've got great relationships with HPE, got fantastic relationships with Cray and so on and so forth.

[00:15:29] And they have done a fantastic job in helping us make sure that supply chain has been able to supply us with NVIDIA and our other partners.

[00:15:38] Fantastic.

[00:15:39] And here at the event, there is so much talk around AI, predictably.

[00:15:43] And I saw you mention yesterday that you were beginning to explore some pretty big questions,

[00:15:48] such as what is the relevance of university in the year 2045?

[00:15:52] Can you tell me about listening a little bit all about that?

[00:15:55] Incredibly forward thinking.

[00:15:56] Yeah, Neil, and it's one of those where you've got to be an antagonist from time to time, haven't you?

[00:16:03] You've got to walk into your business and go, this new technology is coming along.

[00:16:07] And realistically, it's coming along, giving people answers.

[00:16:11] Well, what are we all about?

[00:16:12] We're all about making sure people can either find answers, understand, get through that type of concept.

[00:16:19] So as an organization, as a forward thinking organization, we didn't want to look at what 2030 was going to offer.

[00:16:27] Although we do have a strategy to 2030, of course we do.

[00:16:30] We wanted to start really going, well, if we go beyond what normal supply chain is right now,

[00:16:35] what could a 2045 university look like?

[00:16:38] And we've been challenging where we think AI is going to sit, where we think singularity may even sit.

[00:16:45] Because singularity is definitely happening if you see even what Elon Musk is doing today

[00:16:50] and the way in which they're actually trying to, and successfully doing implantation to actually help people with disability.

[00:16:57] You know, there's an awful lot going on in that space.

[00:17:00] We've come to the conclusion that at the end of the day, we've got to make sure that AI is assisting in the creation of knowledge,

[00:17:09] not the only thing creating knowledge.

[00:17:11] And so we're looking at the relevance of the universities and we're looking at how we can think about our curriculum

[00:17:18] and how we actually educate the next workforce using AI, embracing AI,

[00:17:25] so that they can actually see the difference in what they're getting from an answer in an AI

[00:17:30] to the question that they need to put in the workload so we're able to understand the subject correctly.

[00:17:36] And I liken it to, back in the day, and for your listeners, I'm quite old these days,

[00:17:42] back in the day we weren't allowed to use calculators at school.

[00:17:45] And people thought that that was a piece of computing technology that was going to actually make us

[00:17:51] where we couldn't actually do mathematics any longer.

[00:17:54] There's an argument to say, well, some people don't.

[00:17:57] But there is one of those where we sit there and we go, the maths just got harder.

[00:18:00] And you needed the assistance.

[00:18:02] And I think we're going to be having to address some very, very difficult social and economic challenges going forward.

[00:18:10] Even if we just look at the global challenges we have with global warming and climate change,

[00:18:15] we're going to need to have information at our fingertips.

[00:18:20] And AI does that.

[00:18:22] It brings together vast amounts of disparate information, unstructured data,

[00:18:29] and it gives it a level of meaning.

[00:18:31] No, it's what you then do with that level of meaning that's going to make the difference.

[00:18:35] And I think that's where universities are going to really start to benefit going forward

[00:18:38] and start to really benefit our societies.

[00:18:41] And one thing I've got to raise as well, I think there are many issues appearing at the moment

[00:18:45] of students using Gen AI.

[00:18:47] And one of the biggest problems also, especially for you guys,

[00:18:50] is that many of the detectors and humanizers are quite poor too.

[00:18:54] How are you tackling an issue like this?

[00:18:56] Because I've heard stories of people being accused of using it when they haven't.

[00:19:00] And there's no reliable way of judging, it seems.

[00:19:04] Again, it's a great question.

[00:19:05] Yeah.

[00:19:05] And it's one that we're actually dealing with with our student community.

[00:19:10] And we've asked them exactly that.

[00:19:11] How do you feel about AI and what you're doing?

[00:19:13] And one of the things that we've come out with is that we want to make sure that we're defining

[00:19:18] how AI is being used rather than it defining how it's being used.

[00:19:23] Yeah.

[00:19:23] And so we've actually policyed and put out a lot of guidance for our students already

[00:19:28] on what's a good way to use AI when it's not.

[00:19:32] And we're advising our staff on how we can train those into how to use AI tools as well.

[00:19:39] But the point that we've really come back to is that AI cannot replace the hard work

[00:19:45] of getting to grips with the thresholds of concepts when doing a discipline.

[00:19:51] And one thing's very, very clear with our students.

[00:19:54] Our students come to learn.

[00:19:55] They don't come to cheat.

[00:19:57] And I think that once you start building trust and understanding of why people are investing

[00:20:04] their time, their effort into their education and making sure that they're coming out with

[00:20:08] something, they are using AI as an assistance tool.

[00:20:12] And I changed the sentence in our organization because we are really asking ourselves some questions

[00:20:19] around where do we want to use AI, both from a cost-saving point of view, but also from

[00:20:24] an educational saving point of view.

[00:20:27] And we're really challenging.

[00:20:28] So where do we put it?

[00:20:30] How do we use it?

[00:20:31] What value do we want from it?

[00:20:33] But one thing's clear for us.

[00:20:35] We've got to find a way in which we can embed AI into our education and research and learning.

[00:20:40] Because if we don't do it in other universities, do our students will be disadvantaged in the

[00:20:45] wider workplace.

[00:20:46] So we're making sure that we're on the forefront with our students.

[00:20:50] We're asking them what's important to them.

[00:20:52] What was interesting is some of the comments we've had back from our student groups about

[00:20:56] bias.

[00:20:57] And they are saying that they would like AI to be part of some of the marking capability

[00:21:04] of which I was quite surprised about.

[00:21:06] And I was surprised because at first I thought that they would feel that that was an unfair

[00:21:12] technology.

[00:21:13] And the question I'm asking everybody at the moment is how much failure you prepare to have

[00:21:18] from where you prepare to have it.

[00:21:20] Because one thing that is going to happen as AI is still embryonic, it's still in its

[00:21:26] learning capability and it's vastly getting better day by day.

[00:21:30] But we're going to be in a position where it's going to make some decisions.

[00:21:34] And then we need to choose whether we want to check that decision or we want to allow

[00:21:39] it to happen.

[00:21:40] And if we do allow it to happen and it gets it wrong, how are we going to work with that?

[00:21:45] Yeah.

[00:21:45] And so at the moment we're looking at areas where we think AI could vastly assist.

[00:21:50] So things like potentially, we haven't made the decision on any of this yet, but potentially

[00:21:58] would it be really useful for us to think about it in our admissions process?

[00:22:02] Because then A, you could apply in your native language.

[00:22:06] So you're not disadvantaged by having to apply in one language.

[00:22:11] It would actually potentially, depending on how the learning model was built, potentially

[00:22:17] take out bias on reading that application.

[00:22:21] It would then automatically then keep the candidates informed on the progress that they're going

[00:22:26] through in their own native language.

[00:22:29] So there's ways in which we're thinking that this could open up an awful lot of equity and

[00:22:36] being sure that everybody has a fair right to access to the university, but the equality

[00:22:40] and equity stakes potentially work on the bias side of things.

[00:22:45] Because at the moment, AI can be proved to be biased if it's trained in the wrong way.

[00:22:50] Yeah.

[00:22:51] That's the banking sector.

[00:22:53] And we've got things around those areas that we're looking at, but it's one of those things

[00:22:58] that we're doing it with our student population.

[00:23:01] And I think it's something that we're learning together and we'll make sure that we keep

[00:23:06] progressing that together.

[00:23:07] And you probably are locked down and can't share too much with everybody today, but is

[00:23:12] there anything else you can share around what's next for the University of Bristol from

[00:23:15] a tech standpoint?

[00:23:17] I work in one of the best places in the world to work where what we run on a daily basis,

[00:23:24] people think is leading edge.

[00:23:26] And I work with people that are doing bleeding edge and building this stuff for the future

[00:23:30] generation.

[00:23:31] So I get to see some of the tech that is just literally in prototype stage that's changing

[00:23:36] the world in which we operate it.

[00:23:38] The tech that I'm seeing at the day that really stands out for me isn't necessarily what

[00:23:42] people would class as normal tech.

[00:23:44] The biotech we're doing is amazing.

[00:23:48] We won, or one of our esteemed colleagues won an award for being able to create a DNA elastoplast

[00:23:59] for babies that means that any child born with a heart defect didn't need to go into open

[00:24:05] heart surgery or we could fix that.

[00:24:07] Now that's tech.

[00:24:08] Yeah.

[00:24:09] And that's tech for good.

[00:24:10] That's tech that's doing a major difference.

[00:24:12] Now, the way in which that tech was devised and modeled, yes, it's sat in high performance

[00:24:17] computing and all kinds of things to allow that to happen.

[00:24:20] But when I see the tech coming out today, the tech that really excites me, it's when

[00:24:25] you start seeing the difference that normal standard technology can do and then how it

[00:24:30] actually changes the way in which we operate from many, many different diversities that

[00:24:34] we do at the university.

[00:24:36] Um, we're designing and working with our telecommunications partners.

[00:24:40] You know, we're working on 6g at the moment.

[00:24:43] Uh, the reality emulators I mentioned before is, uh, we're now looking to see how we can

[00:24:48] extend the sensory perception into smell and touch and all those types of things.

[00:24:52] So the world around us is changing dramatically.

[00:24:56] And, um, there's so many things that we are leading on that, um, these are the things that

[00:25:02] will then come back round to become natural product inside our actual organizations.

[00:25:07] And this is going to change the way in which we operate.

[00:25:10] Fantastic.

[00:25:10] I think that's a powerful moment to end on.

[00:25:12] But before I do let you go, when you return home after many, many conversations here,

[00:25:18] what's going to be your key takeaway?

[00:25:20] What are you going to be reflecting on, on that, uh, plane ride home?

[00:25:24] That I think we're just about to go through another maturity curve and, uh, listening to

[00:25:30] a lot of colleagues around, not just the VMware, uh, audience and the Broadcom audience, but

[00:25:36] the, the customers that are brought here and the challenges that they are facing and, and

[00:25:40] talking with the hyperscalers again and so on.

[00:25:43] I can see that there's a, uh, and then the next click, if you like in the actual maturity

[00:25:47] curve of how technology is going to go forward.

[00:25:50] So my takeaway going forward, uh, leaving the conference is going to be very much around.

[00:25:54] We are going to have the tools, the right tools to make choice.

[00:25:59] And whether we want to go into a hyperscaler, whether we want to run something internally

[00:26:03] in our data centers, whether we need to flex between the two, we will have the capability

[00:26:08] to do so.

[00:26:09] And I think that we're going to be in a better position, certainly in the next 12 months

[00:26:14] for the choice points we're going to have to run our enterprises.

[00:26:18] Well, it sounds like we're going to have to get you back on next year for an update there,

[00:26:22] but I know about how busy you've been here throughout the conference.

[00:26:25] So just a big thank you for stopping by today.

[00:26:27] Neil, it's been a pleasure.

[00:26:28] Thank you very much.

[00:26:29] Well, I think Keith's insights, I think Keith's insights today underscore how technology is not

[00:26:37] just enhancing operations at the university of Bristol, but is central to his educational mission

[00:26:45] from digital twinning to world-leading research.

[00:26:48] As we look to the future, I think it's clear that universities like the one at Bristol are

[00:26:55] at the cutting edge, not only adapting to new tech, but also pushing its boundaries to improve

[00:27:02] everything from accessibility, streamlining complex processes, staying ahead in cybersecurity

[00:27:08] and so much more.

[00:27:10] But you've heard from the University of Bristol.

[00:27:13] So today you've learned more about what's happening inside the University of Bristol.

[00:27:17] And for everyone listening, how do you see technology playing a role in shaping education and research

[00:27:24] spaces in your region?

[00:27:26] How's that going to look over the next few years?

[00:27:29] And how are you preparing for it?

[00:27:31] As always, email me techblogwriteratlook.com, X, Instagram, LinkedIn, just app neilchews.

[00:27:38] So a big thank you to Keith for joining me here at VMware Explore.

[00:27:41] We'll start in this conversation.

[00:27:43] And thanks to each and every one of you for tuning into yet another hopefully enlightening

[00:27:49] conversation for you, especially around the future of technology in education.

[00:27:54] So many big talking points.

[00:27:56] I'll be waiting for your messages.

[00:27:57] And also consider this an invitation to join me again tomorrow.

[00:28:01] We'll have a completely different guest where once again we'll explore how technology

[00:28:05] is impacting everything from our lives, our work, our learning and the entire world.

[00:28:12] And on that note, it's time for me to get on the plane back to the UK.

[00:28:16] So a big thank you to everyone at VMware Explore for looking after me over the last few days.

[00:28:21] And a big thank you to Keith for talking to me today.

[00:28:24] But tomorrow's episode will be coming from my home.

[00:28:26] So hopefully I'll speak with you all then.

[00:28:28] But bye for now.

[00:28:29] Thank you.

[00:28:36] Thank you.