3083: Unlocking the Creator Economy: Monetizing Authentic Engagement with Mavely

[00:00:04] Welcome back to Tech Talks Daily. Quick question for you all. Can everyday content creators be the next big influence on our shopping choices? Well, my guest today, Sean O'Brien, CTO and co-founder of Mavely, is going to explore how everyday influences are actually reshaping social commerce. We'll discuss what that shift means for brands, consumers, and the entire creator economy.

[00:00:31] And I also want to learn more about the Mavely platform, how they're using technology to support thousands of creators who connect with their audiences with their favorite brands through shoppable content.

[00:00:44] So I want to learn more about the recent data on Gen Z's trusting influences, the latest tools to streamline content creation, and how Mavely's data-driven approach is actually helping creators and brands optimize their impact.

[00:00:59] I think we've seen a lot of misleading things between influencers and brands over the years. So I'm quite interested in that data-driven approach and the real-world impact that they're having.

[00:01:07] So are we witnessing the rise of a new, much-needed, more authentic form of influence? Well, let's get my guest on and we'll find out more.

[00:01:19] So a massive warm welcome to the show, Sean. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:01:26] Yeah, thanks for having me. Sean O'Brien, I'm the CTO and co-founder of Mavely, which means I lead all product and technology here.

[00:01:35] You know, prior to that, founded and exited two other companies, I'd say the most similar to Mavely being Swift, which was an embedded content and advertising network.

[00:01:45] We notably deployed units like emojis and stickers to drive brand ads and monetization.

[00:01:49] So been in the tech space for my entire career and really just enjoy building great products and bringing them to market.

[00:01:56] Awesome. It's a pleasure to have you join me today.

[00:01:59] And just to set the scene for our conversation, I'm conscious we'll have a few people listening around the world hearing about Mavely and the Mavely platform for the very first time.

[00:02:07] So can you tell me a little bit more about what it is, how you empower everyday creators to maybe better monetize their content?

[00:02:14] And also, what is it that makes it different from all those other influencer marketing platforms in terms of tech, user experience and everything in between?

[00:02:23] Can you introduce everyone listening to Mavely?

[00:02:25] Absolutely. So, you know, as you mentioned, Mavely has built what we call the everyday influencer platform.

[00:02:32] What that means is that we enable really anyone with a social audience to be able to monetize that audience through our technology and services we offer them that allow them to create shoppable, specifically links, but really shoppable content.

[00:02:48] We have partnerships with, you know, we have partnerships with over a thousand different retailers, which means as a creator, you can promote a variety of different brands from, you know, pet food, pet toys, office furniture to beauty supplies.

[00:03:02] And Mavely really sets it up to make it easy for you to find that content, turn it into an actual shoppable asset like a link and then promote it across your social channels to your audience where you earn from the shopping that they do.

[00:03:16] I say what makes Mavely particularly different is, you know, than a lot of the other influencer companies out there is that first and foremost, we're really focused on the creator experience.

[00:03:27] We're very creator first. Our North Star is to maximize the earnings for that creator or influencer as efficiently as possible.

[00:03:35] And we do that by providing them a variety of ways to earn with their audience.

[00:03:41] It's not just, you know, campaigns where a brand will pay to activate, you know, for some sort of piece of content.

[00:03:48] It's the ability really to promote products, earn from all the sales that happen there, as well as participate in these other opportunities like campaigns.

[00:03:56] So it's this full stack of opportunity for the creator, really built around an obsession of ours on that user experience and creating value-driven features for the creator.

[00:04:07] So at the end of the day, they can make as much money as possible with the audience that they have.

[00:04:12] So from the outside, looking at it, is it almost affiliate marketing 2.0 almost or is that doing you a disservice?

[00:04:19] Yeah, I think that's a really good way to describe it.

[00:04:21] It's the evolution of affiliate marketing in a really unique way because these creators have, you know, they have their own niche audience and channel that they can reach out to.

[00:04:30] Not too dissimilar, maybe from original affiliate publishers in a certain sense, but a lot more dynamic in the way that they're able to create that content, engage with their audience, and perhaps most importantly, really authentically engage with them.

[00:04:43] The other thing that makes Mavely really unique is the focus on a specific persona, the everyday influencer, which is both vast but also a powerful cohort of the creator economy in the sense that these are, you know, real people that talk about relatable topics.

[00:04:59] You know, it's, you know, not necessarily always just, you know, high-end, you know, fashion or whatever it may be.

[00:05:06] It's people talking about, hey, it's back to school time.

[00:05:08] Here's the best place to get deals for a backpack if you are a family of five.

[00:05:12] Or if you're a pet lover, here's the cat food or the pet food that really makes your pet healthy and happy.

[00:05:19] It's these kind of topics of things that we're all, that are very relatable and, you know, just true to our experience as people on the planet that make that cohort so powerful that Mavely interacts with.

[00:05:32] And one of the reasons I was excited to get you on the podcast today is that when I recently read that data shows that Gen Z consumers in particular trust influencer recommendations,

[00:05:43] but they need multiple touch points before making that final purchase.

[00:05:47] So how do you at Mavely help creators maximize their impact and conversion rates?

[00:05:54] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:05:55] It's really fascinating.

[00:05:56] I think at the beginning of the, you know, the internet search was sort of the portal to the entire internet, right?

[00:06:02] You go to Google or Bing or whatever and, you know, try to go on a discovery journey for whatever you were looking for.

[00:06:08] I think Gen Z particularly, but, you know, generally as a society, social is starting to become that entry point for the internet.

[00:06:15] And so naturally where, you know, it's bringing people is to these influencers pages and posts all across social.

[00:06:22] And so because of that, there's an inherent trust in finding those sites, right?

[00:06:26] You know, similar to what we might, you know, you know, millennials might have found with different pages on the internet, blogs or whatever it may be.

[00:06:33] However, you need multiple touch points as a creator with your audience to really get them to motivate and activate.

[00:06:40] And so where Mavely helps with that is kind of on two sides of it.

[00:06:45] One is, you know, we provide lots of feeds and recommendations to creators as to what they can promote to their audience so that they can talk about this stuff over and over and over again and generate those multiple touch points with their audience.

[00:06:58] And then once they get somebody to click or engage with that content or to engage with their Mavely links, we've really focused on optimizing the conversion of those links, making sure that whether you're on mobile desktop, whatever environment you're in, it's routing you correctly.

[00:07:14] Whether you're clicking it on Facebook, TikTok, in Substack, whatever it may be, we're routing it in the best possible path so that that shopper also has a very good experience, which ultimately leads to more conversion and ultimately leads to more monetization for the creator themselves.

[00:07:32] And so that's how that maximized impact really happens is through a combination of personalization and then really powerful and strong technology.

[00:07:40] Another thing I was reading about is new integrations with LinkedIn and Button are designed to streamline that entire content, that creator experience.

[00:07:50] Can you tell me a bit more about how these features simplify the process for influencers and enhance their ability to drive sales?

[00:07:57] How does that work?

[00:07:58] Yeah, I love those two examples, both LinkedIn and Button, because they speak to both sides of the North Star for us here at Mavely.

[00:08:08] We look to maximize the earnings for the creator as efficiently as possible.

[00:08:11] In terms of maximizing the earnings, Button really enables a great conversion of the link.

[00:08:18] So what our partnership with Button does is that Button helps make sure that when you click on a link in certain apps, be it Facebook, TikTok, that link is taking the shopper to the best destination, primarily to the retailer or to the brand's app.

[00:08:34] Shoppers convert.

[00:08:36] I think it's 130% higher on average within an actual mobile app versus mobile web or desktop web.

[00:08:43] And so making sure that journey for the shopper works really well and effective is an important part of our tech stack and our journey.

[00:08:50] Button is best in class in doing that.

[00:08:52] And so our partnership there really helps make sure that our brands and retailers can bring shoppers on the right journey that ultimately help maximize the earnings for the creator.

[00:09:03] When it comes to the efficiency side of our North Star, that's where Link DM comes in.

[00:09:07] They give creators the ability to create an auto-response to their Instagram posts with a comment that ultimately then sends a link to the shopper in their DMs.

[00:09:19] This basically allows our creators to get those shoppable links into the hands of their followers incredibly efficiently and at scale, and particularly on a platform like Instagram, where it can be a little bit harder to share those links.

[00:09:31] And so I'm really excited about these two integrations and a lot of the integrations that continue to come into Mavely is that it's really focused on making that creator experience as really as nice and easy as possible to make a bunch of money.

[00:09:46] And as a platform that connects brands with these grassroots influences, I'm curious, what trends are you seeing in this social commerce space?

[00:09:55] And how are brands adapting their strategies to make the most of these authentic grassroots connections?

[00:10:01] What are you seeing here?

[00:10:03] Yeah, I think one of the core trends that's most fascinating to me is the true democratization of the creator economy.

[00:10:10] Really anyone now can build a niche and an audience and drive value within that space.

[00:10:17] A saying that we have here internally at Mavely is that creators really represent the small to medium-sized businesses of the social economy and the social commerce space.

[00:10:27] They really are social entrepreneurs.

[00:10:29] I think that's a really cool thing that's happening and that we're seeing unfold before our eyes, right?

[00:10:34] Where if you were an entrepreneur previously, you might open up a bakery shop on your corner or a certain type of store.

[00:10:41] You can now do this digitally, socially, and do it at scale.

[00:10:45] And that true democratization of that creator economy is incredibly powerful, not just for the creators, but also for the opportunity that it gives to brands.

[00:10:54] And so brands really need to now focus on the breadth of types of creators that are out there and understand the different ways to enable those creators across different personas and across different niches is different.

[00:11:10] But a marketplace like Mavely really helps enable them to do that at scale.

[00:11:13] And so it allows brands to focus on the full funnel impact that creators really can provide them, especially as this creator economy continues to grow and expand in the way, particularly in the way that the influencers and creators interact within it.

[00:11:30] And before you came on the podcast today, I was reading about some recent upgrades to the Mavely's My Shop tool.

[00:11:36] So how do those upgrades help creators better optimize their storefronts and ultimately better engage with their followers on platforms in everything from, I would imagine, TikTok to Instagram, right?

[00:11:48] Yep, yep, absolutely.

[00:11:50] So Mavely's My Shop was a tool that was built to help creators bring all of their content, all their posts into one shoppable storefront.

[00:11:58] Um, you can create a post that has multiple links within it, your own image description, um, post it once into your My Shop.

[00:12:06] And then as your My Shop link exists across TikTok, Instagram, you know, any social platform that you've got, shoppers can come and engage really seamlessly with a place that you've just posted content to once.

[00:12:18] And so the upgrade to My Shop, you know, really enabled a couple of things.

[00:12:22] One, uh, at, you know, because of our obsession with user experience and particularly the mobile user experience, we wanted to bring the full suite of My Shop tools into our, into our mobile app.

[00:12:32] And so, um, a lot of our creators are on the go, just constantly moving.

[00:12:36] They need those tools available, um, on their phone as, you know, as they're embarking on their, their active lifestyle.

[00:12:42] And so, uh, a lot of the upgrades to My Shop enabled that, uh, but as well took the, the user experience generally to another level to make it even more efficient to create lots of posts, share them across different pages.

[00:12:54] Uh, however you're interacting with your audience, My Shop, uh, you know, hopefully is now built to enable that at scale and, and really efficiently allow you, uh, to, to get all that content out across a lot of different social channels all at once.

[00:13:08] And I think from both the brands and the creators point of view, there has been this increasing focus on data driver analytics to make sure that both of them are a good fit for each other.

[00:13:20] But ultimately they're, um, serving their audience rather than just selling to them something that they don't actually want.

[00:13:27] So how do you use data to help brands and creators make those more informed decisions about those social commerce strategies?

[00:13:34] Because it's great if you get it right, but there's nothing worse than getting it wrong, isn't it?

[00:13:39] Yeah.

[00:13:40] Um, yeah, I think it's, this is one of the things that's most fascinating about this space and the opportunity that we sit, uh, within it, which is.

[00:13:48] You know, I may believe we get to see a really full funnel of, uh, of, of data across the entire creator to shopper journey.

[00:13:56] Um, and what I mean by that is kind of have two versions of the awareness intent conversion, uh, funnel happening within Mavely.

[00:14:04] So on the influencer side, uh, we're able, uh, to, to see kind of intent, uh, in the sense that when they're creating links and content around certain brands and around, uh, certain kind of products, they typically do it a couple of days before they promote it.

[00:14:16] So I kind of like to joke, we know the trends before the trends are trendy, uh, because we see what people are starting to create early on.

[00:14:23] Uh, we didn't see them actually share it into social.

[00:14:25] So it moves from intent to actually driving kind of, uh, uh, you know, awareness for the, uh, uh, you know, for those actual brands and products.

[00:14:32] Um, and then ultimately leading to clicks from shoppers, right?

[00:14:35] So that's kind of like funnel number one.

[00:14:37] Then we take funnel number two, which is the shopper who's now clicking on this content and on these links.

[00:14:42] They're landing on a brand's page.

[00:14:45] They're deciding whether or not they actually want to buy stuff and then they're ultimately converting.

[00:14:48] And so we get to see the whole journey across that entire spectrum, which is super powerful.

[00:14:54] You can, you can imagine, uh, uh, the vast amount of data we have at the top of the funnel and how it comes all the way through.

[00:15:00] And with all of that, we're able to kind of bring it back to both creators and brands to help really, uh, you know, make more efficient and, and, and, and drive more value for each of them in two different ways.

[00:15:12] On the creator side, uh, we've built a lot of recommendation engines, quite simply what to promote, when to promote and where to promote based on what we know about you as a creator, what our entire network is seeing across the spectrum.

[00:15:26] But as well as based on the types of brands or the types of, uh, you know, specific products that you do best with as a creator or that your audience is most interested in based on what we've seen from them as well too.

[00:15:37] So this is something that we'll continue to refine over time and over time.

[00:15:41] Uh, but all the way drives back to, if we can help creators understand the best content to promote and to share, um, as fast as possible, then they're going to be able to get to that earning step really quickly and can continue to maximize their earnings opportunity, uh, uniquely through the systems that maybe provide.

[00:16:00] Similarly on the, the, the, the brand and, uh, the retailer side, um, we can really help them understand across this vast creator economy.

[00:16:07] What are the types of creators that they need to be working with to maximize their own return on ad spend?

[00:16:13] Right.

[00:16:14] Um, you know, they, we can understand over time as we see more and more of these, these, uh, these conversion funnels go up like, Hey, we're brands based on the products that you're promoting, the price point that you're at.

[00:16:23] We really recommend targeting these types of creators, these types of platforms.

[00:16:27] And, you know, that's kind of a, maybe the high level way that we see data really helping both today, but as well as the future of how Mavely plays within this space.

[00:16:37] So on behalf of every business leader or brand that could be listening to this podcast anywhere in the world right now, maybe you've just set off a few light bulb moments.

[00:16:46] What advice would you give to those brands looking to maximize their ROI with influencer marketing?

[00:16:52] Cause I know that is a hot topic right now.

[00:16:54] And, and also are there any specific strategies or even technologies that they should be prioritizing from everything that you're seeing?

[00:17:01] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:17:02] I think what we see, or I know what we see from the best brands is they really are taking a full funnel approach to creator and influencer.

[00:17:09] And what I mean by that are, you know, early on influencer was kind of looked at, Hey, this is a brand awareness play or a content play.

[00:17:16] And those are definitely parts of the value exchange within the space, but you don't need to stop there.

[00:17:23] It really, from a brand's perspective, you should look at it at that awareness and at that content level, but all the way down to conversion and performance.

[00:17:30] The technology is there.

[00:17:32] It's in a place where no matter what kind of brand you are, that you can activate within the influencer marketing space and make sure that you are not just driving that awareness and creating content, but also getting actionable performance from it.

[00:17:46] And, you know, one of the things that we see that the best organization is doing is they brought all of those different marketing units and budgets together with an influencer, right?

[00:17:55] It's not like you've got a, you know, an influencer team just focused on awareness and then a different one focused on affiliate.

[00:18:01] Like if you bring those all together, it's really powerful to see how it all comes together.

[00:18:06] So that would be the biggest advice I would give to brands is, is really internally think about influencer as one full funnel stack and work with the folks who help optimize for your brand across that entire funnel and across that entire stack.

[00:18:19] When it comes to technologies, the biggest thing that I will always tell brands is you've got to have mobile app attribution and ideally set up so that, you know, because so much of this influencer activity happens on mobile devices.

[00:18:33] And so you want to make sure that a, your shoppers are hopefully downloading your, your, your mobile shopping app, but B when, when the influencers are out there promoting your brands and products that they can send the shoppers into an actual mobile app.

[00:18:46] There's, there's a ton of statistics out there on how much better conversion is within a mobile app for a brand and for a commerce experience rather than the mobile web.

[00:18:56] And so we really recommend to brands thinking about it from that way, because what will happen is if you're a brand that has a mobile app attribution system set up and we can deep link into it, uh, influencers are going to see higher conversion rates.

[00:19:08] They're going to earn more money and then they're going to be more likely to promote your brand.

[00:19:11] It's this fortuitous loop of, uh, uh, when it rains, it pours, um, for, for, for a lot of this mobile attribution.

[00:19:17] So I cannot highlight that enough for brands out there and make sure you have that set up really effectively because you'll be able to, um, scale your influencer efforts, um, a lot faster and a lot higher quality.

[00:19:31] And one other thing that the study by Mavely highlighted was generational differences in how consumers interact with influencer recommendations.

[00:19:39] So as we prepare for life in 2025 weeks away now, how do you see these trends evolving and what role do you see yourselves at Mavely playing in shaping this future of social commerce?

[00:19:52] What have you seen here?

[00:19:53] Yeah, I think this, this comes back to that SMB analogy is, is as the creator economy expands, these creators, uh, represent a tons of different personas and niches, uh, within that economy, within that spectrum.

[00:20:06] And I, uh, I think what's really powerful and, and, and, and, and unique about the space is that, um, any creator can come in with a voice and find their sort of niche and find their, their, their audience.

[00:20:18] Um, you know, talking to them in different styles, right?

[00:20:20] We see things like the rise of faceless creators where it, you know, you might not literally see the creator, but they're, uh, you know, providing a value in the sense that maybe they're finding a certain unique, uh, unique deals that are out there, or, uh, they find really cool, fashionable, trendy stuff at, at, at, at, uh, different, um,

[00:20:36] at different outlets where it might be more, uh, uh, approachable from a price perspective.

[00:20:41] So really what we're seeing is kind of an evolution of the persona of the creator, uh, which speaks to the fact that different, uh, generations are going to want to interact with different types of influencers and different types of creators out there.

[00:20:53] Right. Um, even the platforms in which they're engaging with them on are proliferating at a very interesting rate, right?

[00:20:59] You know, I think it's every almost month now, at this point, we're talking about new platforms that we're seeing our creators monetize their audience on and, and, and ultimately hope helping them, uh, be able to do that.

[00:21:09] And so where I see Mavely playing within that future is continuing to build the tools and to build the technology that works for this vast persona of the everyday influencer, making sure that wherever your audience is, you're fit with the proper technology to, to monetize it as, as effectively and efficiently as possible.

[00:21:30] And I also think there's a real pressure on all of us to be in a state of continuous learning.

[00:21:35] Now it could be quite overwhelming and daunting for many people.

[00:21:39] And as someone who knows the trends before they become trendy, I kind of ask where or how do you self-educate?

[00:21:46] What's your secret sauce here?

[00:21:48] Yeah, I love this question.

[00:21:49] I think it's so important for, you know, just us as people to constantly be, be, be flexing both the mental muscle and physical muscles just for our own wellbeing.

[00:21:58] On the continuous learning side, the thing that really drives me, I, uh, I, I love chess.

[00:22:04] I've really, uh, um, dedicated myself into the game here in the recent years.

[00:22:08] And I think it's such an interesting, um, intersection of kind of intellectual challenge and that it's a game that's been around for a long time.

[00:22:15] Uh, we're constantly learning about the game itself, um, particularly in the last couple of years with, uh, you know, different, uh, engines that allow us to understand the game and more much more nuanced level.

[00:22:26] We're, uh, questioning things that we always thought about it, um, about the game from a meta level.

[00:22:31] And then at the individual level, you can really dedicate yourself to learning about chess at whatever speed and cadence you want to write.

[00:22:38] There's tons of ways to learn about openings and different tactics and, and in different ways to operate within the game.

[00:22:43] And then you get to practically apply that, uh, within a very competitive, uh, sphere or, you know, in my case online.

[00:22:49] And for me, it's this intellectual challenge that's vastly different from what I do at work on a daily basis.

[00:22:56] And so being able to do that and still flex that kind of, um, and, and work on that, uh, that intellectual muscle is, is really powerful and honestly really cathartic in a certain sense.

[00:23:06] Um, and so I love it.

[00:23:07] Uh, it's, uh, it's been, you know, a really great place to pour a lot of that energy and then re-energize myself for when I want to jump back into the technology side of the greater economy and push us forward there.

[00:23:18] Well, absolutely love chatting with you today.

[00:23:21] So many big takeaways for me, but for anyone listening, just wanting to find you or your team online, find out more about anything we talked about, including that report that we've referenced a little today.

[00:23:31] Where would you like to point everyone?

[00:23:33] Absolutely.

[00:23:34] Uh, first and foremost, you can find out more about Mavely at joinmavely.com at our website or engage with us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube at, we're at Mavely app or, uh, on TikTok of, uh, at Mavely.com.

[00:23:47] So a lot of really great content out there from, from myself and from my team and, uh, particular reports that we share on the greater economy, which is evolving every day.

[00:23:56] Well, we are approaching the period where our inbox gets under siege by Black Friday emails and Cyber Monday emails, which ultimately means it is the biggest time of year for a lot of the stuff that we're talking about here.

[00:24:08] And a few more stats from the report there.

[00:24:11] I think almost 25% of consumers have used a gift guide online to make holiday shopping decision.

[00:24:16] But that, that number rises to nearly a half or 47% of Gen Z consumers.

[00:24:22] So many more big insights like that in the report.

[00:24:25] So I'll include a link for everyone listening so people can check that, learn a little bit more about that.

[00:24:30] But more than anything, just thank you for starting this conversation and shining a light on this today.

[00:24:35] Thanks again.

[00:24:36] Well, thanks for having me.

[00:24:37] This is, this is great, really just fascinating space and always excited to talk about it.

[00:24:41] I think my chat with Sean today highlighted how Mavely is almost redefining social commerce by empowering real people to share their recommendations authentically.

[00:24:52] And as we've discussed the blend of technology and human connection, that is what is opening new paths for brands and creators alike.

[00:25:00] But I'm curious, how do you see everyday influences shaping the future of shopping and digital engagement?

[00:25:07] I was quite cynical about it in the past, but my wife orders so much from Instagram home accounts and influences that I know it works.

[00:25:16] But I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

[00:25:19] Email me now, techblogwriteroutlook.com, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, just at Neil C. Hughes.

[00:25:24] Let me know your thoughts.

[00:25:26] And as we approach the holiday season, I'm going to be having a clear out of all my tech swag and things that I've been sent and books and things.

[00:25:34] I'm going to give you a little task.

[00:25:35] Let me know the last time that you was influenced by an influencer into buying something, whether that just be a promo code or somebody promoting something that you like.

[00:25:45] I want to hear about it.

[00:25:46] And I know there is over 150,000 of you listen a month, but you don't always message me.

[00:25:52] Maybe this could be your moment.

[00:25:54] I'll send you a tech book or something, but let me know your thoughts and we'll get something out to you.

[00:25:58] How's that sound?

[00:25:59] Deal?

[00:26:00] Awesome.

[00:26:01] Okay, well, that's it for today.

[00:26:02] So thank you for listening as always.

[00:26:04] And until next time, don't be a stranger.