3090: Promova and The Human Touch in AI-Powered Language Learning

[00:00:04] Welcome back to Web Summit 2024 here in Lisbon, which is where I'm spending my time this week. And it's billed as an event where the world's most innovative minds gather to share insights on the future of technology.

[00:00:17] And today I'm thrilled to be sitting down with the dynamic CEO and co-founder of Promova, which is a rising star in the edtech space.

[00:00:29] And my guest journey is nothing short of remarkable from making Forbes 30 under 30 list in 2021 to being shortlisted for the 2024 All Stars Awards by GP Bullhound.

[00:00:43] And under his leadership, Promova has grown from a simple flashcard app to a comprehensive language learning platform with more than 15 million downloads and 1.8 million monthly active users.

[00:00:59] So today I want to find out more about how he's steering the company through the crowded language learning market, how they're competing with giants such as Duolingo and Babbel,

[00:01:10] while most importantly staying true to the company's mission of inclusivity.

[00:01:16] And I always say on this podcast, I'm fascinated by how technology is making a real difference in people's lives, bringing people closer together.

[00:01:24] So I want to learn more about the innovative features like dyslexia mode, which is designed to make language education accessible for neurodivergent learners.

[00:01:34] And also talk about that delicate balance of integrating AI with a human touch to deliver a truly personalized learning experience.

[00:01:44] So after seeing Andrew speaking about teaching for tomorrow's job market today over on a panel here at Web Summit,

[00:01:54] I invited him to join me on the podcast and offer a sneak peek into his vision for the future of education and the role of edtech in adapting to diverse learning needs.

[00:02:06] And that adapting to diverse learning needs is so important.

[00:02:11] So how is Promova redefining language learning?

[00:02:15] And what does the future hold for accessible education?

[00:02:19] And what is the role in technology in bringing that to life?

[00:02:23] Let's find out now.

[00:02:25] So a massive warm welcome to the show.

[00:02:28] Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:02:32] Hi, my name is Andrew and I am a founder from Ukraine.

[00:02:36] And I'm basically I'm in tech last 16 years, even though I just 31.

[00:02:42] I started early in my 15s and I founded Promova five years ago.

[00:02:49] But prior to that, I used to be a part of the cool company called Conceptor with a consumer LED flash for smartphones.

[00:03:00] Back in the days, iPhone 4 doesn't have a cool, nice LED flash for it.

[00:03:06] So we did that.

[00:03:07] And this will be your first yet to date startup startup from Ukraine who sold their products online and offline in Apple stores, both USA and Europe.

[00:03:20] And huge success.

[00:03:21] We also were our startup who raised money more than a million US dollars on Kickstarter.

[00:03:27] So that was my first big startup experience.

[00:03:34] And after that, I left.

[00:03:38] We actually sold this company to a huge, big product company in Ukraine called Ajax.

[00:03:44] And after that, I joined Genesis.

[00:03:47] Genesis and inside of Genesis and Genesis is a co-founding company, huge holding, really famous by their products.

[00:03:55] I founded, co-founded with them Promova, with my co-founders and Genesis.

[00:04:00] We founded Promova 2019 as a language sharing app, simple app, 10 words a day and nothing serious at that moment.

[00:04:10] But our ambition was serious.

[00:04:12] It was just to test the hypothesis.

[00:04:15] So, yeah.

[00:04:17] And myself, actually, I'm a big lover of kite surfing, extreme sport.

[00:04:22] Last year and a half, I visited 30 countries, more than 60 times, 100 plus flight planes.

[00:04:29] It was a crazy life, digital nomads.

[00:04:32] Even though my company grew more than two times over this period.

[00:04:39] And, yeah.

[00:04:41] Fantastic.

[00:04:41] I mean, Promova has grown rapidly.

[00:04:44] It's reached something like 15 million downloads, 1.8 monthly active users.

[00:04:49] And that is probably the even more important figure.

[00:04:52] But what do you attribute that growth to, especially with so much intense competition in language learning marketing, with Duolingo, Babbel, there's other ones out there.

[00:05:02] What's making you so successful?

[00:05:04] So, one of the things when we started thinking about our new company, our new project and what are we going to do next with my co-father, Misha,

[00:05:13] we thought, if we look at the language learning market and it was already crowded.

[00:05:20] Duolingo, Babbel, Bosco and a lot of other competitors.

[00:05:24] And we thought, again, it's a good opportunity to start something new here.

[00:05:30] Because me, myself, I have my own problem when I was a kid, learning languages, struggle with languages.

[00:05:37] Because I wanted, like, somehow address it in my work should be related to that.

[00:05:44] Also, market itself.

[00:05:47] Duolingo about to go to IPO.

[00:05:50] And everybody was bothering about that.

[00:05:53] So, like, everybody growing.

[00:05:55] And we saw that some of our competitors were just born less than a year ago.

[00:05:59] So, we thought that Windows is still there.

[00:06:02] It's still here.

[00:06:03] You can still launch.

[00:06:04] And me, myself, I saw language learning as a huge platform because you can fulfill your ambitions.

[00:06:13] You can do so many things online.

[00:06:16] You can reimagine the way how you educate online.

[00:06:20] You can go offline and combine offline and online and communities and, like, games and everything.

[00:06:29] So, this amount of ideas you can do and execute under this little app was like, wow, I want to do that.

[00:06:40] And so, how we started.

[00:06:43] And answering your question about rapid growth, basically what we thought, you can't replicate what others did the same way.

[00:06:53] You can't do the same way.

[00:06:54] So, we thought, okay, let's go rebel.

[00:06:57] Let's go opposite.

[00:06:58] If everybody goes this way, we're going to go other way.

[00:07:02] And down to our marketing strategy, how we launched MVP.

[00:07:07] And we launched MVP, like, just in two weeks.

[00:07:09] So, from the idea up to the point where apps were available on the App Store, last, like, two weeks or three weeks.

[00:07:19] Android version first, then two weeks more iOS version.

[00:07:23] And we started, like, paid marketing.

[00:07:26] We started thinking how we can optimize what others do, but in our own way.

[00:07:33] And with that mentality, through all of those six years, product-wise, brand-wise, our geo-expansion strategy, marketing strategy-wise, even team-wise.

[00:07:47] I mean, we have more than 65-68% of all of people who work in Promoa is female.

[00:07:56] And it's not that common to companies, at least in Ukraine.

[00:08:01] We have, like, not that diverse teams.

[00:08:03] And both managers, IC, individual contributors to the company, not just tutors, who usually are female, but engineers, marketing team, ops, legal, everything.

[00:08:16] So, even, I mean, in every detail of our team, in every DNA, we're doing more things differently.

[00:08:25] And you've also recently moved from Ukraine to San Francisco to expand your network and ultimately grow Promoa.

[00:08:32] So, how has that transition influenced your approach to scaling the company and ultimately navigating that edtech landscape?

[00:08:39] Any big changes you've seen now as well?

[00:08:41] Oh, I mean, recently.

[00:08:44] It's been more than three years now.

[00:08:46] Yeah.

[00:08:46] So, yeah.

[00:08:48] When I moved to California, I moved to LA first, to Los Angeles.

[00:08:55] And I saw it as a huge opportunity to learn from companies that was built in California, in LA.

[00:09:06] And understood them, how they built the companies.

[00:09:09] And the thing is, it was, like, this idea that in our region, in Ukraine, we know how to run performance-based companies first.

[00:09:21] And Western companies, like, in the U.S., they, like, brand company first.

[00:09:26] Brand first.

[00:09:26] And for us, how to build brand, it was, like, magic.

[00:09:30] We couldn't understand how you can do magic, how you can measure it, and how you can execute it, and vice versa.

[00:09:38] It was, like, this idea that American companies couldn't understand how we do, how we do and execute paid marketing.

[00:09:45] So, I came to every, like, conference, meetup, startup sessions, and everything.

[00:09:51] And I said, like, guys, I'm from Ukraine.

[00:09:54] I know how to run, like, paid marketing company, but I do not, I don't know anything about brand.

[00:10:01] Can you go and talk to about brand?

[00:10:05] Can you teach me how to do brand?

[00:10:08] What is brand?

[00:10:09] What is that?

[00:10:10] And so, they did.

[00:10:12] They just started to help me to understand what it is, how does it work, how to do that.

[00:10:20] And that heavily impacted and influenced the way how we operate today.

[00:10:27] And the language learning space, as we said at the very beginning of our conversation, is incredibly crowded.

[00:10:32] Yeah, Promova has managed to become profitable within just two years.

[00:10:36] So, can you share some of the strategies and tactics that have helped achieve that positive unit economy,

[00:10:43] especially in terms of performance marketing and brand building?

[00:10:46] Because I suspect there'll be a lot of startup founders that would love to be profitable within two years.

[00:10:50] Yeah.

[00:10:52] So, there's three things I want to highlight.

[00:10:56] First one, we achieved and we earned our first million in nine months.

[00:11:02] So, basically, the route from zero to a million took us just nine months, which is like golden start and standard in SaaS companies.

[00:11:14] And we did it from Kiev, Ukraine.

[00:11:17] Like, wow.

[00:11:18] Yeah.

[00:11:18] So, the Hagen thing, you should understand where we came from.

[00:11:24] In Ukraine, you have so little access to venture capital.

[00:11:28] So, the room for a mistake, it's so tight, so little, sometimes you couldn't risk.

[00:11:35] So, if you couldn't risk, what you should do?

[00:11:38] You should plan, you should strategize, you should analyze, you should count everything.

[00:11:43] So, data-driven for us wasn't buzzword.

[00:11:46] It was like only way to survive.

[00:11:50] So, we measured everything.

[00:11:52] How we run the ad, the cost, the conversion rates, the impressions, how they convert to our platform,

[00:12:02] like through onboarding, how they use the product.

[00:12:05] And we analyzed it on so many different levels, like on ad level, on creative level, country, audience, age,

[00:12:15] on so many different levels.

[00:12:17] And we analyzed this data.

[00:12:18] And it helped us to understand where we have the biggest ROI on what we invested.

[00:12:25] And we started to focus on those areas.

[00:12:30] And we invest more in that ideas, in that hypothesis.

[00:12:35] We run thousands, hundreds of A-B-Dests.

[00:12:40] And so, this scrutiny around how we approach and how we spend US dollars on the product development heavily influenced.

[00:12:52] Also, we are lucky in Ukraine with the salary situation.

[00:12:57] It's way cheaper to hire people in Ukraine compared to West Europe or, of course, USA.

[00:13:06] And even though we're saying it's cheaper in Ukraine, it's competitive.

[00:13:11] It's competitive salary rates.

[00:13:14] And people in tech earn, on average, way more money than everyone else in Ukraine.

[00:13:20] So, cost cut, not cost cut, sorry.

[00:13:24] Cost optimization salaries, super efficiency on marketing spend.

[00:13:31] And this strategic thinking of next steps, I would say, was three crucial things that helped us to build this momentum in the first years.

[00:13:44] And one of the standout features of Promova from the outside, looking in for me, of course, is the focus on inclusivity, such as introducing dyslexia mode.

[00:13:54] So, kudos to you for doing that.

[00:13:56] But what inspired you to prioritize accessibility?

[00:13:59] And how has that commitment shaped your product development roadmap?

[00:14:02] Yeah, I would say, first, the idea about these initiatives goes to our PR lead and global communications, Alena Kozup.

[00:14:15] And she met with Martin Pissly, who is our advisor and basically a co-partner in that mode.

[00:14:24] So, basically, it was their idea and their initiative that I supported.

[00:14:29] But it goes down to our values.

[00:14:32] Because I always thought that to be accessible as a platform, it's not enough to have free lessons on your platform, free content.

[00:14:45] It's way more than just free content.

[00:14:48] My brother, it wasn't diagnostic because in Ukraine, the situation with healthcare, I mean, progressively healthcare, it's a bit different.

[00:14:58] But my brother probably had dyslexia.

[00:15:01] And I saw how he was struggling when he was a kid learning new things.

[00:15:08] It was, like, not great.

[00:15:11] And when Alena told me about this idea, in my head it was just, like, clashed together that, of course, we should do that.

[00:15:19] Because it is about accessibility.

[00:15:22] It's not about the free.

[00:15:26] If you want to build a product that everybody can use, it's not about the price.

[00:15:32] It's about accessibility.

[00:15:33] And for us, dyslexia and this addressing neurodiversity challenges is the first step.

[00:15:41] And this year, we launched it two years ago.

[00:15:43] This year, we updated and launched an even more efficient version of our software to app.

[00:15:50] We also added white noise.

[00:15:53] You can switch it in white noise.

[00:15:55] So, it's going to help you concentrate and focus on learning.

[00:15:58] So, we, and eventually, we're going to add more and more and more stuff that helps address those challenges.

[00:16:10] And AI has become a key component in many edtech products.

[00:16:15] But finding that right balance between AI and the human touch can be incredibly challenging, too.

[00:16:21] So, how do you strike that balance to ensure it's personalized and effective learning experience for users without losing that human touch?

[00:16:28] Great question.

[00:16:29] And, you know, it's a really hot topic right now.

[00:16:32] So, everybody's all kidding.

[00:16:34] So, again, down to our values, I would say, and I believe that in this center is a human.

[00:16:42] And AI would, I bet, that AI is going to be a help for us as a tool, not a replacement.

[00:16:48] And I bet on that strategy.

[00:16:51] And when I come from that thinking, I think, what if it's going to help us?

[00:16:57] What if we're going to build a tool that helped humans?

[00:17:01] What if, what if?

[00:17:02] And what are we doing?

[00:17:04] We are building tools.

[00:17:05] We leverage AI capabilities.

[00:17:07] But that help our tutors, that help our methodologies, that help our professionals in our team to build a better solution to our students, to our users.

[00:17:20] For instance, we just recently launched the special roleplay speaking tool that helps prepare you to situations you wouldn't think you're going to be in the future.

[00:17:35] But probably they might help you to prepare.

[00:17:38] For example, we have chat where you can talk to AI.

[00:17:43] And AI is a character of a police officer that stops you on the road and asks you questions.

[00:17:52] And so, people usually, because they don't know what to expect, they have this fear.

[00:17:58] They feel the fear.

[00:18:00] And we believe that with our lesson, people can prepare better to this foreign talk in foreign countries.

[00:18:09] For example, also you can argue with your neighbor or parking space or in our situations.

[00:18:19] Or just order a coffee or talk to an airport.

[00:18:23] So, I would say normal situations as well, like some tricky ideas that we gather our backs.

[00:18:31] But you might think it's crazy.

[00:18:34] But myself, I've been in those situations.

[00:18:36] Most of our lessons, it actually was real-life situations from our team that they faced.

[00:18:43] And users, they told us about those stories.

[00:18:45] So, we released, and without AI as of today, those tricky different scenarios wasn't possible.

[00:18:54] Yeah.

[00:18:55] And this is one part.

[00:18:57] Also, the other part, we have live tutors, live sessions with tutors.

[00:19:02] One of our group lessons.

[00:19:03] And we're about to develop software that helps assess the homework from students.

[00:19:12] And it's going to ease the work of tutors.

[00:19:15] And tutors can focus on creativity.

[00:19:19] How to create a nice, cool, super cool lesson to attract a student to a lesson and keep his attention.

[00:19:28] Instead of spending his hours and life on assessing or preparing the home task and home job.

[00:19:35] So, this is great.

[00:19:37] Yeah.

[00:19:38] And I think competing with well-established apps does require constant innovation.

[00:19:43] So, how have you from over evolved from your origins as this flashcard app to becoming a comprehensive language learning platform?

[00:19:51] What would you say are the biggest changes you've made along the way?

[00:19:55] Yeah, you're right.

[00:19:58] So, when we spoke about that we were like paid marketing first company.

[00:20:03] And with that you calculate your ROI.

[00:20:07] You know that you spend like dollar on the marketing, on the ad.

[00:20:12] And you attract user.

[00:20:14] And you earn like more than a dollar from that user.

[00:20:17] And like this is the business, right?

[00:20:19] But I don't want to, never wanted to create that type of the company.

[00:20:23] I always dreamt of the big vision about what we can do.

[00:20:28] And with paid marketing, you can earn quick results, right?

[00:20:34] Invest, earn, that's it.

[00:20:36] But not really quickly.

[00:20:38] Like, listen, how we pay back period could be like months.

[00:20:42] Months.

[00:20:44] But with product development, you have to invest sometimes years to fill this investment.

[00:20:50] And for us, it was just down to our values.

[00:20:55] What do we believe in?

[00:20:56] We believe in bright future where we can shift and change how people learn and educate.

[00:21:04] And, okay, let's reinvest those money that we earn into brighter future.

[00:21:11] Let's do that.

[00:21:11] Of course, we're not going to earn money right now, right away.

[00:21:16] Or within a year from those initiatives.

[00:21:18] It's just down to our values.

[00:21:20] And it was just a leap of faith, let's say, in that field.

[00:21:26] So we started this almost two years ago, this path to product-led growth.

[00:21:36] And two years ago, we started with brand development as well.

[00:21:39] Brand basically invests a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of money before you're going to earn at least one recognition or something, right?

[00:21:47] And again, we should do that.

[00:21:51] It's like our decision.

[00:21:53] And we're going to keep our heads down, focus on what we are doing, remember why we are here, what we want to change.

[00:22:04] And eventually, when you do a great product and you earn good feedbacks from your customers, it's going to pay back.

[00:22:16] So what we did.

[00:22:17] And we are at the point where we have more than almost half a million user reviews on Apple Store and Google Play and Trustpilot.

[00:22:25] And they're great reviews.

[00:22:26] And we have tons of cool reviews from our customers.

[00:22:30] They love us.

[00:22:31] They love what we are doing, how we treat them, how we provide services to them.

[00:22:36] Yeah.

[00:22:37] So we are happy.

[00:22:38] We should be too.

[00:22:39] And of course, we're talking at Web Summit in Lisbon right now.

[00:22:43] And you've been speaking on the Teaching for Tomorrow's Jobs Today panel, which is ultimately about adapting educational content for neurodivergent minds.

[00:22:53] Again, great work there.

[00:22:54] But why do you believe that focus is so critical for the future of education?

[00:22:58] And how are you from over incorporating some of these principles in your platform?

[00:23:03] We've talked about accessibility and dyslexia.

[00:23:06] But anything else you can share around that?

[00:23:07] Yeah.

[00:23:08] So great example.

[00:23:09] And everybody who worked before with ChatGPT and OpenAI or like Anthropic or Cloud or others.

[00:23:17] So what AI enabled us today, basically, all of those studies, books, materials that we have today, they like normal, right?

[00:23:28] Yeah.

[00:23:28] But people with neurodiverse challenges, they require specific treatment, specific phrasing, personalized way how the content structure, the phones should be adjusted.

[00:23:42] The colors should be adjusted.

[00:23:44] The information should be adjusted.

[00:23:46] And AI could learn from your behavior, from your needs, from you as a person, what is your requirements and rephrase the whole text, rephrase the whole article, build and create new font specifically to you, for you.

[00:24:04] And help with the color coding, help with so many things on super large scale.

[00:24:11] Before, it used to be like doctor or like somebody expert one-on-one to people with dyslexia.

[00:24:20] Now we can use AI and leverage it like on so, I mean, insane scale.

[00:24:27] It's, of course, I picture there is a vision.

[00:24:30] It's yet to be built.

[00:24:31] Some of the steps we've already made at Promova as well.

[00:24:36] Some of the steps should be built, should be executed in the future.

[00:24:42] But as a vision, yeah, it's the simplest point.

[00:24:47] We can just hyper-personalize learning materials to neurodiverse people.

[00:24:53] And actually, it's not just their, not just their, it's everybody because everybody is so unique.

[00:24:59] This is their own experience, their own background, their own stories, traumas and everything.

[00:25:06] So you can learn from their, you know, past.

[00:25:10] And in examples where you teach, you can use their past as an example of new knowledge.

[00:25:20] And it's going to stick them way better than some other example.

[00:25:25] Yeah.

[00:25:25] And something else I wanted to highlight that I learned today is Promova's initiative to provide free premium access to all Ukrainians.

[00:25:34] Again, huge commitment.

[00:25:35] So what impact have you seen from that partnership with the Ukrainian government?

[00:25:39] And how does that align with your broader vision for making language education ultimately accessible to all?

[00:25:46] Yeah.

[00:25:47] So this initiative started with a proposal from President Zelensky, President of Ukraine,

[00:25:53] a program called Future Perfect.

[00:25:56] And we are a part of that program.

[00:25:59] We provide our premium services for all Ukrainians for the next three years.

[00:26:07] since last year.

[00:26:09] And again, data-driven approach even here.

[00:26:13] So our ministry of, MinCIFRA they call, Ministry of Technology, Technological New Solutions,

[00:26:20] what they ask us to provide an access to like some of the anonymized reports,

[00:26:26] how the people learn and how they,

[00:26:31] how they level of languages,

[00:26:33] understand English before the program and after.

[00:26:36] And we've seen this improvement over time.

[00:26:39] So right now,

[00:26:40] hundreds of thousands of people joined through the program

[00:26:42] and went to our program at Promova.

[00:26:45] And it's not just us at Promova,

[00:26:48] at this program, Future Perfect.

[00:26:50] It's all,

[00:26:50] some of our competitors as well from Ukraine,

[00:26:53] some of our great partners,

[00:26:55] some of our other small and bigger and smaller apps and businesses

[00:27:00] got to a program.

[00:27:01] So it's,

[00:27:02] it's a collaborative effort of all Ukrainians who can,

[00:27:06] who can help.

[00:27:08] And,

[00:27:09] you know,

[00:27:10] I,

[00:27:10] I met so many people who said that they started to learn languages,

[00:27:18] especially English,

[00:27:19] only because they saw this program.

[00:27:22] My,

[00:27:22] my own mom came to me after that and told,

[00:27:25] and showed me like,

[00:27:26] Andrew,

[00:27:27] are you proud of me?

[00:27:28] Because I like,

[00:27:29] you can see,

[00:27:30] I learned like the English through Promova.

[00:27:32] And like,

[00:27:33] and,

[00:27:33] and,

[00:27:33] and she,

[00:27:34] she showed me how,

[00:27:35] how she did this.

[00:27:37] And it was just because this launch and this huge news in,

[00:27:41] in Ukraine.

[00:27:42] So,

[00:27:42] of course.

[00:27:44] It's a beautiful moment to end on,

[00:27:46] but for anyone listening,

[00:27:47] just want to find out more information about you.

[00:27:49] Ask you or your team a question.

[00:27:51] We'll just explore Promova and find out more about that.

[00:27:54] Where would you like to point everyone listening?

[00:27:55] Oh,

[00:27:56] my Instagram,

[00:27:57] Andrew,

[00:27:58] Andrew.Skripnik,

[00:27:59] as far as I remember,

[00:28:01] LinkedIn,

[00:28:02] Facebook,

[00:28:04] our support team,

[00:28:05] support at Promova.com.

[00:28:07] You can send questions about our product here and team would like to answer them.

[00:28:13] And yeah,

[00:28:14] you can find me online.

[00:28:15] Well,

[00:28:16] I will add links to everything so people can find you nice and easy and come out.

[00:28:19] With you.

[00:28:20] You've already done a panel today.

[00:28:22] I believe you've got a DJ set coming up as well,

[00:28:24] but yeah,

[00:28:24] thank you for taking time to sit down with me.

[00:28:26] Thank you.

[00:28:27] Thank you very much.

[00:28:28] I think after talking with Andrew today,

[00:28:30] it's given me an inspiring look into the future of edtech and how Promova is setting new standards in learning language.

[00:28:38] Whether that be leveraging AI to creating a positive unit economy to building features like dyslexia mode,

[00:28:47] a mode that caters to the wide range of learners.

[00:28:51] But at the heart of all this is not the technology.

[00:28:54] It's Andrew's vision,

[00:28:56] which is clear,

[00:28:57] make education accessible,

[00:29:00] inclusive,

[00:29:01] and effective for everyone.

[00:29:03] And as the company continues to grow and innovate,

[00:29:07] for me,

[00:29:07] it's a compelling example of how a tech startup can not only compete in a crowded market,

[00:29:13] but also make a meaningful impact.

[00:29:15] So,

[00:29:16] the big question is,

[00:29:17] can edtech platforms like Promova pave the way for a more inclusive future in education?

[00:29:25] I'd love to hear your thoughts on this evolving space.

[00:29:28] Do you believe the balance between AI and the human touch is key to effective learning?

[00:29:34] Share with me your perspectives by emailing me,

[00:29:39] techblogwriteroutlook.com,

[00:29:40] LinkedIn,

[00:29:41] X,

[00:29:41] Instagram,

[00:29:42] just at Neil C. Hughes.

[00:29:43] Lots for you to look at there.

[00:29:45] But the real star of the show today is Andrew.

[00:29:48] Not only was he on a panel here at Web Summit on the show floor,

[00:29:53] or live in front of hundreds of people,

[00:29:55] then he went from that to a podcast with myself,

[00:29:58] and then he walked off into the sunset to perform a DJ set.

[00:30:01] He is officially one of the coolest guests I've ever spoken with.

[00:30:05] Incredible guy.

[00:30:06] Really nice guy.

[00:30:07] And someone I will be staying in touch with.

[00:30:09] And hopefully get to work with again in the future.

[00:30:12] But that's it for today.

[00:30:13] So I'll be back again tomorrow with another guest.

[00:30:15] But thank you for listening today.

[00:30:17] And hopefully,

[00:30:18] I will speak with you all again bright and early tomorrow.

[00:30:22] Bye for now.

[00:30:23] Bye.