3096: AI Costs vs. ROI: Why Outsourcing is the New Competitive Advantage

[00:00:04] Is the outsourcing industry ready to shake off those old stereotypes and redefine its role in today's tech-driven economy?

[00:00:13] Well today I'm joined by Craig Chrysler, CEO of Support Ninja, an all-round great guy.

[00:00:20] And today we're going to discuss the modern evolution of outsourcing as a strategic tool rather than a cost-cutting measure.

[00:00:29] So hopefully we can bust a few myths and misconceptions in our conversation today.

[00:00:34] Because as AI investments surge to nearly $5 billion, and many companies out there that made the mistake of going tech-first problem later are grappling with limited returns.

[00:00:48] So Craig is going to share insights on why businesses are increasingly turning to outsourcing to bolster profitability, scale and access global talent, and so much more.

[00:01:00] I'm all about the human element of technology.

[00:01:03] So we'll also talk about how empathy-informed leadership is reshaping Support Ninja's approach, fostering an environment where both clients and their employees can thrive.

[00:01:14] So big question, can outsourcing be the hidden driver of innovation in an unpredictable economic landscape?

[00:01:23] Well, let's get my guest on today so we can talk about all this and much more.

[00:01:28] So a massive warm welcome to the show.

[00:01:32] Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:01:36] My name is Craig Chrysler.

[00:01:38] I'm CEO of Support Ninja.

[00:01:40] So Support Ninja is, for lack of a better term, a BPO provider.

[00:01:43] So we're an outsourcing firm that primarily focuses on scaling innovative companies.

[00:01:48] And so our core thesis around what we do for clients that's kind of different than traditional outsourcing is that what we try to do is we really try to provide a value-added service and really drive growth for the companies that we work with.

[00:02:02] And so that was the beginning of Support Ninja.

[00:02:04] We started about eight years ago.

[00:02:05] We're currently operating in eight countries worldwide with a little over 3,000 FTE and 240 clients.

[00:02:12] Love it.

[00:02:12] An incredibly cool name as well.

[00:02:14] Is there a story behind that as well?

[00:02:15] Hello.

[00:02:16] It's really funny.

[00:02:17] When we first started doing Support Ninja, it's actually a funny story more than anything else.

[00:02:23] The Ninja moniker, I worked in Japan for a couple of years and the Ninja moniker kind of makes sense.

[00:02:29] It's kind of like that masterless Ronin behind the scenes supporting these great companies and stuff like that.

[00:02:35] But then long story short, cut to about a year in when we were all brainstorming ideas and Support Ninja came up.

[00:02:41] Cut to about a year in, Cody, one of the original founders, and I were chatting and he's like, Ninja came from the name of my cat.

[00:02:48] And I was like, what?

[00:02:49] And so his cat was named Ninja.

[00:02:52] He just happened to look at it while we were talking about names and Support Ninja came up.

[00:02:57] So as much as I would love to say it was this kind of like very exciting, like we got this really great plant.

[00:03:02] It's basically a cat's name.

[00:03:05] Oh, I absolutely love that.

[00:03:06] You had me on that at the edge of my seat there with this profound, inspiring story.

[00:03:11] And it was the cat.

[00:03:13] Fast forward to present day.

[00:03:15] Of course, all anyone's talking about is AI.

[00:03:17] I was telling you before we started this conversation, say I was in Seattle last week, where you had predictably AI dominated conversations there.

[00:03:25] And one of the things we don't talk about that much, or I think we should talk about it more, is AI adoption bills are skyrocketing to something like $5 billion now.

[00:03:35] And many businesses are starting to struggle to see the tangible returns on their investments.

[00:03:40] So what do you think is causing that gap between that AI spending and measurable incomes?

[00:03:46] If we think about this as kind of like the fourth major innovation, right?

[00:03:50] Like cloud computing was one and mobile computing was another.

[00:03:53] And it's interesting if you think about those adoptions back then and compare it to what's happening in AI now, that hype cycle of a tool potentially being very transformative to these clients creates this atmosphere of people jumping, right?

[00:04:11] Instead of doing what you would normally do with an enterprise solution, right?

[00:04:16] A one that could actually be very transformative for a company.

[00:04:19] And I think what the major problem is in terms of why it's skyrocketing and we're not seeing the returns is kind of a core fundamental thesis that we have at Support Ninja too of saying, you don't just throw a tool at a problem.

[00:04:32] You have to do all of the pre-work to get it to a place where the tool makes sense.

[00:04:37] And then you implement it.

[00:04:39] And so I think what's interesting, a costly tool, like specifically if you're dealing with large language models or even compact language models in an AI sense, those are pricey.

[00:04:47] They're not cheap.

[00:04:48] And if you're going to implement a tool like that, if you haven't done the pre-work to make the tool effective, the returns are going to not manifest anywhere as quickly as you thought they were.

[00:05:00] And so it's funny with our clients.

[00:05:03] We do a lot of work right now with kind of this, we call it pre-AI prep, where we look at their tools.

[00:05:08] We look at the way in which they're thinking about using AI.

[00:05:11] What's the strategic goal of using AI?

[00:05:15] And then run through a process of making sure we understand how and what ways will we integrate and how and what ways will this look.

[00:05:21] And it's a struggle.

[00:05:22] I mean, I'll be honest in saying I know quite a few CEOs because I'm a startup guy myself and they'll throw this AI tool at a problem.

[00:05:28] They're like, oh, it didn't work the way I wanted it to.

[00:05:30] And I said, well, because you didn't do the pre-work.

[00:05:33] You didn't think about it.

[00:05:34] You didn't do the process.

[00:05:35] And so I think that's a lot of it.

[00:05:38] I think a lot of it's coming from the fact that it's, I joke, it's like it's the sprinkles on the donut right now with AI, right?

[00:05:46] It's a great donut, but also you throw the sprinkles on it.

[00:05:48] Did it really add enough?

[00:05:50] Probably not.

[00:05:51] You have to look at why you want to use this tool before you actually implement it.

[00:05:58] Yeah, it can be frustrating.

[00:06:00] It should always come out from the problem first, then the technology.

[00:06:03] We do seem to get that mixed up a lot.

[00:06:06] And as I said, I've been to so many different tech conferences.

[00:06:09] Everyone's talking about AI and every single company out there in the tech front are saying this won't impact jobs.

[00:06:15] It's a co-pilot.

[00:06:16] It augments human intelligence.

[00:06:18] Then a few months later, they make deep cuts to fund AI projects and almost end up rethinking their talent strategies as a result too.

[00:06:26] So I'm curious, though, how are you seeing companies adapt to that new reality, especially in terms of that very fine balance between innovation and financial sustainability?

[00:07:04] Absolutely.

[00:07:05] One of the things that I'm seeing is where if it's a measured investment, meaning that you're understanding specifically because AI is a gamut of tools.

[00:07:13] It's not just what you see in LLMs.

[00:07:16] There's a whole range of suite of AI tools.

[00:07:19] And the ones that are really kind of approaching it from how are we going to make this work for us and then executing on it, they're doing it as a measured investment that allows them to kind of implement over time versus it being like we're going to drop $2 million on this thing and hope that it gets us $2 million plus in return.

[00:07:40] And I've seen those folks do really well.

[00:08:10] Younger, innovative company.

[00:08:12] And you're just like, I'm just going to throw a bunch of AI at this.

[00:08:14] Be mindful.

[00:08:15] Those costs will increase over time.

[00:08:17] And you want to make sure that you're kind of calculating that math as you're integrating these tools to make sure that you understand clearly what the financial impact is.

[00:08:27] Because it's like I mentioned before, the hype cycle is so high right now.

[00:08:31] It's almost like we'll just throw a bunch of money at it and cross our fingers, which is not a good approach.

[00:08:37] Yeah, it really is.

[00:08:38] And before you came on the podcast, I was doing a little research on you.

[00:08:41] And I know you previously mentioned that it feels like we're in this era of almost growth at all costs.

[00:08:47] And that has shifted towards a focus on profitability now.

[00:08:50] But how does that shift impact the strategies that companies are using to grow?

[00:08:55] And what role does outsourcing play in this emerging landscape?

[00:09:01] Well, it's interesting to us because we started Support Ninja on the concept of how our first year's tagline was we scale startups.

[00:09:11] Right.

[00:09:11] And so we were all startup guys and we had used outsourcing.

[00:09:15] We didn't like how it operated primarily because it wasn't flexible enough and it didn't have all of the things that we needed for it to do.

[00:09:22] That for growing, scaling companies effective.

[00:09:25] And so how we're seeing it work out well and I think is actually the future of outsourcing in many ways is if you're a young, innovative company or you're just a company.

[00:09:37] I just had a dinner with a client last night and we were talking about this, how they were when we first worked with them, they were a young, really early stage startup.

[00:09:46] And now they're much, much bigger and very successful.

[00:09:49] But they leveraged the outsourcer, specifically us, to do multiple components of that work that wasn't core to their product or service.

[00:09:58] So they kind of kept the things that would really innovate their customers' work, meaning the client, the product and service close to them.

[00:10:05] And then outsource as much as they could of the other things that weren't really crucial to their service.

[00:10:11] And so, for example, we do AR with them, but we also do their CX work and we do some renewal management for them.

[00:10:18] And we do all these things that, sure, in their business, it's crucial, but it's not core to their product and service.

[00:10:25] And so I think if you think about growth at all costs versus trying to get to profitability, that approach of saying, if this isn't core to my business and it's not going to drive kind of client satisfaction and client growth of revenue,

[00:10:38] why don't I take some of that and send it to an outsourcer so they can do it?

[00:10:42] Because they have the expertise and they know how to do it.

[00:10:44] And I think that that's what's a really effective use of outsourcing in general, of just saying, hey, I can get to a cost-effective, leverage the global talent pool,

[00:10:55] which oftentimes is, from a labor arbitrage perspective, cheaper, but as good as doing it in-house.

[00:11:02] And so that approach really creates this opportunity for cost-effectiveness and drives profitability.

[00:11:09] And I think traditionally, outsourcing has sometimes been almost stereotyped as a break-the-glass solution to cut costs in tough times.

[00:11:18] And on this podcast, I always love to try and bust a few myths, and I'm sure you've come across more than a few of them in your time.

[00:11:24] So what would you say are some of the biggest misconceptions out there about outsourcing,

[00:11:29] and how can businesses leverage it maybe more strategically for that longer-term success?

[00:11:35] Well, I think it's interesting because traditional outsourcing, we don't call ourselves a traditional outsourcer,

[00:11:40] but traditional outsourcing was one of kind of throw this process across the pond, for lack of a better term.

[00:11:45] We're going to find some low-cost geo, and we're just going to do this very specific approach of saying,

[00:11:55] okay, we just can do this really cheap on a unit basis.

[00:11:59] And this one process, whatever it is, whether there's taking phone calls or whatever,

[00:12:03] then that kind of general concept of a thousand people in a crowded call center doing X, Y, and Z of this process.

[00:12:11] And that is not truly what outsourcing is.

[00:12:15] True outsourcing, the way in which we think about outsourcing, and those of us who are in our space that operate like we do at Support Ninja,

[00:12:23] really think of outsourcing as a way in which we're a strategic partner with our clients.

[00:12:28] And so meaning that we look at how they're growing and what they're doing,

[00:12:33] and we evolve with them over time to make sure we're offering solutions to them from a global talent perspective

[00:12:38] that allows them to leverage the global talent pool in an effective way.

[00:12:42] And that's much better than thinking about, I'm just going to throw this process somewhere,

[00:12:47] likely in a foreign country outside the U.S., and then know that I'm just going to get it for a cheap unit cost.

[00:12:55] And by thinking about sourcing as a strategic partner, it raises quality.

[00:12:59] Cost is always a benefit.

[00:13:01] That's just table stakes in what we do.

[00:13:03] But the quality increases because now you have this partner that's working with you and growing with you

[00:13:07] and being that solution.

[00:13:09] And I always point to one of our early clients was Gates Foundation.

[00:13:14] And we've had a team with them that's been working with them for seven years.

[00:13:18] And out of that team, that same team has been with them for seven years.

[00:13:22] We actually only lost one agent in the whole process, but they ended up hiring that agent back on the U.S. side.

[00:13:27] And that team does not do anything like what they did with them seven years ago.

[00:13:32] What they do now is completely different.

[00:13:35] And that's the kind of partnership you want with an outsourcer, somebody that's going to evolve and look at you and be like, how can we help you strategically?

[00:13:43] And so when you think about a long-term success and kind of relationship, your outsourcing partner shouldn't be just your process doer.

[00:13:50] They should be your strategic partner.

[00:13:52] I love that.

[00:13:53] And in the current economic environment, there's what, 4,000 or 5,000 miles between us.

[00:13:59] And we're both seeing the same things with slowing growth rates, lack of VC funding, sustained interest rates.

[00:14:05] With all this in mind, how are you seeing companies using outsourcing to maybe de-risk their hiring strategies?

[00:14:12] And what kind of advantages does outsourcing offer in this currently uncertain climate, for want of a better word?

[00:14:19] Right.

[00:14:20] Well, when you think about, and I'm old enough, I've seen a couple of different down cycles of the economy.

[00:14:26] And how do you get through in those?

[00:14:29] And I remember I was talking to a young entrepreneur about this because it was the first time he was dealing with it.

[00:14:33] And I said, you optimize your costs and you start to look at ways that were made profitable through the downtimes and drive growth.

[00:14:39] And this kind of approach of thinking about outsourcing from a hiring perspective, A, you can leverage a global talent pool, which oftentimes has a cost effectiveness to it and a quality that is on par with what's regional.

[00:14:52] But further, in terms of thinking about as you move to go get funding, once everything starts to, for lack of a better term, loosen up and the interest rates improve and the PEs start investing more and those kinds of things.

[00:15:04] When that stuff starts to happen, you're showing a profitability and a cost effectiveness that they, through a rough time, that isn't just burning capital as you're trying to weather through.

[00:15:16] And I think that outsourcing in many ways, especially what we do, kind of creates this opportunity and it's a strategic play that shows a sophistication that kind of in that growth at all costs environment that we were talking about before.

[00:15:31] For VCs, when they look at this now, especially with the AI investments that are happening, that probably won't bring as much fruit as everyone thought.

[00:15:38] When you see that happening, to me, it gets the VCs excited because they're like, wow, this is a profitable company.

[00:15:48] They figured it out.

[00:15:49] They figured out a way to control their costs.

[00:15:50] They're not just putting in and spending money crazily.

[00:15:54] And basically, their runway is much longer because they figure out a way to be cost effective.

[00:15:59] And that's where I really think it's in this environment and kind of weathering through a down cycle.

[00:16:05] This is where you can leverage.

[00:16:06] And honestly, outsourcing is through all cycles, whether it's a down or not.

[00:16:12] I think you can really leverage outsourcing effectively and it's a cost effective strategy to drive profitability.

[00:16:18] And I'm curious, does outsourcing help companies scale in ways that they might not automatically be possible through traditional hiring methods,

[00:16:27] especially when it comes to specialized skills like AI and tech development where you can just get those skills as and when you need them?

[00:16:34] Does it allow them to scale quicker?

[00:16:36] Anything you're saying there?

[00:16:38] Absolutely.

[00:16:39] And we can with our own clients.

[00:16:40] So we have two models that support Ninja.

[00:16:42] We have management as a service and talent as a service.

[00:16:45] And so management as a service to think about it is kind of what you would consider kind of your formal outsourcing.

[00:16:52] So we build a team, we have a manager, we have workforce management, QA and all of that stuff.

[00:16:57] But then we also have this whole wing of the business called talent as a service.

[00:17:01] And talent as a service is essentially where clients come to us and say, you know what, I need engineers or I need folks that can do process optimization or whatnot.

[00:17:10] And what we do is we can actually go find that talent for them globally and then they manage them directly.

[00:17:16] But we make sure the agents are happy, healthy and got benefits and all the other stuff so that they're not having to do that kind of HR work.

[00:17:22] But we're doing all that for the client, but allows them to do it.

[00:17:25] So we've seen we have a couple of AI companies, specifically AI companies that we work with where we do maybe some of their CX work on the management as a service side.

[00:17:35] But then we have teams of engineers that we found globally that are, you know, from a cost effective standpoint, as good as the U.S., but more cost effective than hiring a back end engineer or network engineer or cloud engineer regionally.

[00:17:49] And it's really effective for them because now they're not trying to compete in this very aggressive competitive landscape in the U.S. of trying to find these specialized skills.

[00:18:01] We're saying, well, don't just look here, let's look globally.

[00:18:04] And we're finding them for them and they're fantastic and at a fraction of the cost.

[00:18:10] And those kinds of really scales well.

[00:18:13] And I guess when we look at the speed of technological change right now, IT taking 18 months to deliver a tech project, it's just no longer going to cut it.

[00:18:22] It's out of date by the time it's in run.

[00:18:24] Absolutely.

[00:18:25] In the speed at which the evolution is, it's I was just talking to a VP of tech at one of our companies recently.

[00:18:32] And he was saying how literally like they'll finish something and then they have to iterate on it the next day because it's just everything's moving at lightning speed.

[00:18:43] And when I was looking at your personal journey before you came on the podcast today, your personal journey has led you to embrace, let's say, empathy informed leadership style, which is so refreshing.

[00:18:53] So how does that approach influence your views on outsourcing and indeed your role of CEO at Support Ninja?

[00:19:00] Because I feel there's almost a story there as well.

[00:19:03] Well, it's interesting because not to do get too into the weeds, but I've been in startups and working in businesses for my whole career and 12 companies and four exits and very interesting career.

[00:19:16] But a big pivotal turning point for me was I am in recovery.

[00:19:20] I've been sober for over a decade now.

[00:19:23] And when I was going through that and actually transforming how I looked at the world, I realized one of the huge things I love about business is people.

[00:19:33] It's the thing that just excites me.

[00:19:36] It gets me up every single day, whether it be a customer, whether it be a client, whether it be the team that I work for.

[00:19:41] And I joke all the time.

[00:19:43] I tell people, they just don't believe me when I say I work for the people that work at Support Ninja.

[00:19:48] I don't work for my board.

[00:19:50] I work for the people that work for me and because I wouldn't have a job unless they did their job.

[00:19:56] And in that approach and kind of what I went through in recovery really kind of created an atmosphere where I really believe my main job is to be the grease, not the glue and everything that we do and and inspire people to drive them to do better work.

[00:20:09] And that starts with having empathy and understanding that not every day is going to be a great day for every single person.

[00:20:16] And knowing that in my recovery, as well as being a business person and working in a people business that's important in gen outsourcing, outsourcing is not a pretty job at times.

[00:20:27] They're often the ones that you talk to when you're having a problem.

[00:20:35] And making sure folks are inspired to do the work that they do for our clients and making sure that they feel that they're being part of something bigger.

[00:20:44] It makes not only me, I think it makes me a better leader to make sure that I'm ready, that I'm helping them.

[00:20:50] But further, it makes us a better company and makes us a better outsourcer because we care so much about what our agents are doing every single day.

[00:20:58] Well, kudos to you, my friend, for coming through your recovery and making such a difference with and for people as well as business.

[00:21:06] And as we look into life in 2025, literally weeks away now, are there any trends that you see shaping the future of outsourcing,

[00:21:15] particularly as companies continue to balance that cost of AI adoption with the need to remain competitive in a fast evolving market?

[00:21:23] Anything you're seeing out there?

[00:21:25] What I'm seeing is actually the race to the bottom that is traditional outsourcing, which is, I joke that if you think about outsourcing traditionally,

[00:21:33] if you want to know where the lowest cost labor market is, just look at where a big outsourcer is opening their next site.

[00:21:41] Because they're racing to the bottom in terms of wage rates, in terms of what they're going to charge their customers and stuff like that.

[00:21:47] And I think that race to the bottom is with AI and the way in which we can tech enable people and the way in which we can support the work that they do every single day with technology.

[00:21:57] You're going to see a trend of companies like us and others that are saying it's not just about racing to the bottom.

[00:22:05] In fact, what's more important is the CX quality, like what you're doing for your customers and using tech to enable the work that you're doing with your customers.

[00:22:14] That's where you're going to see a lot more of that happening.

[00:22:17] And actually, I think the future of outsourcing in general is one of the folks and you can see it in the market valuations currently and outsourcing on the stock market.

[00:22:26] Because the idea of thousands and thousands of people doing this one process with monotony and we're at a very low cost across the ocean, that's going to start to go away.

[00:22:37] And what's going to rise is the idea that you can have 20 people doing incredible work, tech enabled, and you don't need a thousand people to do it.

[00:22:45] And I think that's the future.

[00:22:47] And gratefully, I'm grateful kind of we've been saying that for a long time and now it feels like it's coming to fact.

[00:22:53] Well, thank you so much for sharing your story, your journey and insights with everybody listening today.

[00:22:59] And I want to say as a small thank you for something we can do for you in return, because some of the biggest names in business, VC, funding and tech have either been guests or maybe just listened to this podcast.

[00:23:10] Or maybe there's a friend of a friend that will listen.

[00:23:12] So is there a person that you'd love to have a private breakfast or lunch with?

[00:23:17] Who would it be and why?

[00:23:18] He or she might just get to hear this, but let's see what we can manifest together.

[00:23:22] Who are you going to choose?

[00:23:24] It's interesting.

[00:23:25] I honestly would love to have a lunch with Mark Cuban, and it's for an interesting reason.

[00:23:32] Not because I'm a sports fan.

[00:23:34] I don't particularly follow sports.

[00:23:36] I didn't even know who was in the World Series that's happening right now until someone asked me to choose for the team who was going to win.

[00:23:43] But more because I really appreciate and kind of understand and would love to dive in with it on how he kind of thinks about companies and thinks about innovation and the way in which he approaches investment.

[00:23:56] Because I think it's unique and it's smart and it's non-startup.

[00:24:02] Most of my career has been very startup-y and although he was a startup guy, he's not anymore.

[00:24:07] And so the way in which he looks at investments is a different – it would challenge me.

[00:24:11] And so that's kind of where I would love to have lunch with him and have him challenge me a little bit.

[00:24:16] What a great choice.

[00:24:17] Well, we'll send that out into the universe if there is anybody listening that knows, Mark.

[00:24:22] Or maybe the big man himself is listening.

[00:24:25] Let's see what we can make happen there.

[00:24:26] But you must let me know if you do receive any communication.

[00:24:30] But for everyone listening just wanting to find out more information about Support Ninja, maybe connect with you or your team or dig a little bit deep on anything we talked about today.

[00:24:39] Well, would you like to point everyone listening?

[00:24:41] Absolutely.

[00:24:42] So you can find us, Support Ninja, at supportninja.com.

[00:24:45] And you can also find me on LinkedIn at Craig Chrysler.

[00:24:48] You can also find me on Instagram at Chrysler Craig.

[00:24:51] And I always put it out there.

[00:24:53] You can actually email me directly.

[00:24:55] Anyone in the company as well as anyone in the world can email me directly.

[00:24:58] It's a very easy email.

[00:24:59] Craig, C-R-A-I-G, at supportninja.com.

[00:25:03] Fantastic.

[00:25:04] Well, we covered so much there from addressing some of those myths and misconceptions around outsourcing, often stereotyped as that break-the-glass solution to reduce costs,

[00:25:14] but also about using it more of a strategic tool to help companies achieve sustained growth and scale.

[00:25:20] Not only that, you shared your incredible story and somehow managed not to upset either L.A. Dodgers fans or New York Yankees fans.

[00:25:28] Thanks for joining me today.

[00:25:30] Thank you, Neil.

[00:25:31] It's been great.

[00:25:31] Thank you so much.

[00:25:32] I think my conversation with Craig highlights the shifting landscape of outsourcing from a reactive measure to a proactive growth strategy.

[00:25:42] And that is something I find exciting.

[00:25:44] And as Support Ninja exemplifies, the modern outsourcing model prioritizes meaningful partnerships and employee well-being, proving that he's more than just a budget solution.

[00:25:59] So where do you see outsourcing fitting into your own growth strategy?

[00:26:03] And how might that drive value beyond the bottom line?

[00:26:07] Big question, this one.

[00:26:09] Let me know your thoughts.

[00:26:10] Let's keep the dialogue going.

[00:26:12] Email me now.

[00:26:13] Techblogwriteroutlook.com.

[00:26:15] LinkedIn.

[00:26:15] Instagram.

[00:26:16] X.

[00:26:17] Just at Neil C. Hughes.

[00:26:18] Nice and easy to get a hold of.

[00:26:20] So let me know your thoughts.

[00:26:21] So a big thank you to Craig.

[00:26:23] All around great guy.

[00:26:24] Someone I intend meeting face to face in the near future.

[00:26:27] And of course, each and every one of you for listening.

[00:26:30] If you see me out there or know that I'm coming to a tech event near you, let me know.

[00:26:34] Let's grab a hot coffee or a cold beer.

[00:26:36] My treat.

[00:26:38] So thanks for listening today.

[00:26:40] And I will speak with you all bright and early tomorrow.

[00:26:44] Bye for now.

[00:26:44] Well, bye.

[00:26:51] Bye.

[00:26:51] Bye.