3115: How Mendix is Scaling Innovation with AI-Enhanced Low-Code Development

[00:00:04] What if the future of coding didn't require coding at all?

[00:00:08] And as businesses race to keep up with the demands of digital transformation,

[00:00:13] low-code development has emerged as a game-changer in recent years because it is enabling a broader range of talent to tackle complex projects and drive innovation.

[00:00:24] But how does low-code fit into larger digital transformation journeys?

[00:00:29] And let's introduce AI into that. How is AI amplifying its potential?

[00:00:35] Well, my guest today is going to be sharing how low-code is not only redefining software development,

[00:00:40] but also increasing collaboration between IT and business teams so collectively they can better address governance challenges,

[00:00:50] create sustainable foundation for enterprise growth and fast-track innovation.

[00:00:55] So my guest is going to talk us through how Mendix is leveraging AI to enhance productivity, power applications and simplify development for even the most complex systems.

[00:01:07] I also want to learn a little bit more about the principles of governance, security and upskilling of staff in an organization.

[00:01:16] All these things are essential for successful low-code adoption.

[00:01:21] So, big question. Can low-code be key to unlocking your organization's next big breakthrough driving innovation?

[00:01:29] So it's time for me to introduce you to today's guest as we talk about how this innovative approach is shaping the future of business transformation.

[00:01:39] So, a massive warm welcome to the show, Hans. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:01:47] Yeah, thank you, Neil. A great pleasure being with you on the show.

[00:01:50] And my name is Hans de Visser. I'm the Chief Product Officer at Mendix, one of the leading low-code vendors.

[00:01:57] And I've been with Mendix for the last 10 years.

[00:02:01] Well, it's a pleasure to have you join me on the podcast today.

[00:02:04] Every day I try and demystify an area in enterprise technology.

[00:02:09] Talk about a language that everyone can understand.

[00:02:11] So stakeholders throughout the business can understand too.

[00:02:14] And one of the reasons I was excited to speak with you today is about the low-code barometer

[00:02:19] and how that highlights an almost shift in low-code adoption as a strategic enterprise tool.

[00:02:25] So, how do you see low-code reshaping digital transformation efforts at the organizational level?

[00:02:32] I think low-code as a technology or as a concept is having a massive influence on digital transformation for two reasons.

[00:02:41] First of all, low-code enables organizations to basically mobilize more talent to actively participate in digital transformation initiatives,

[00:02:52] which is quite often powered by software.

[00:02:55] I would say almost always powered by software.

[00:02:58] And the second aspect is that low-code as a type of platform has progressed so much in the last years

[00:03:06] that it has kind of gone beyond the typical departmental level applications and can literally address enterprise-wide needs for digital initiatives

[00:03:17] that are spanning multiple systems, fairly complex projects as well,

[00:03:22] leveraging all sorts of technologies that are brought together in a very elegant way in a low-code platform.

[00:03:29] And that's basically fueling the adoption of low-code across the enterprise.

[00:03:34] And before you came on the podcast today, I was looking through the low-code barometer report,

[00:03:41] and one of the big stats that stood out to me was 73% of respondents identified low-code as the only viable coding option for the future.

[00:03:52] So, what is it that you think makes low-code uniquely suited to address the complexities of the modern enterprise challenges

[00:04:00] that we see out there, especially in this age of AI that we find ourselves?

[00:04:03] Yeah, that's amazing, right? So, the proliferation of low-code and also the ever-accelerating adoption.

[00:04:10] I think it comes down to two principles that we apply in our platform, and so does, I would say, other vendors in this space.

[00:04:19] And that's abstraction and automation.

[00:04:22] Low-code basically abstracts pretty complex technology for using by less technical people.

[00:04:30] So, people that are not necessarily coming with a coding background like Java or .NET.

[00:04:36] So, it opens up the possibility to develop applications by a wider audience.

[00:04:43] And the other principle is automation, which means that every opportunity that we see to automate steps in the software development lifecycle,

[00:04:52] we take on and actually make it happen.

[00:04:54] So, there is a lot of productivity that we bring out of the box, but also the idea that multiple stakeholders can effectively contribute to software projects that are addressing the digital needs.

[00:05:06] And because of that, you see the concept of, for example, fusion teams popping up like inter-multidisciplinary teams with people from the corporate IT side and people from the business.

[00:05:18] And people that are basically in the middle like business analysts that usually would only do the information analysis, for example, but now all of a sudden can actively participate and sometimes even help develop those applications.

[00:05:32] And that basically fuels the adoption of low-code in a, I would say, pretty broad setting.

[00:05:39] So, not just in IT, but also in business domains where people are getting more and more IT savvy, particularly with a new generation workforce that is entering enterprises and organizations that are digital natives, if you like,

[00:05:53] and are really keen to change things for the better with tools that are provided by corporate IT under governance.

[00:06:01] And that's basically something that we see happening across the board in multiple sectors and also globally with our clients that we are serving.

[00:06:11] And your research also, I think, underscores the importance of combining AI with low-code to ultimately drive innovation faster, which is a huge topic right now.

[00:06:22] So, how are you at Mendix enabling organizations to leverage this almost perfect combination effectively?

[00:06:30] Yeah, again, they're a great question.

[00:06:32] So, when it comes to AI, actually, sometimes we got the question like, would AI make low-code obsolete?

[00:06:39] Because you could argue that if you can boost developer productivity for traditional coding frameworks, so to say, why would you still need low-code?

[00:06:47] But we have basically come to the conclusion also the conviction that it's almost like a leapfrog approach.

[00:06:54] Like, AI will make coders more productive.

[00:06:56] But if low-code, which has the kind of promise already of being more productive, like six to ten times faster application development powered by Gen.AI, you actually kind of go beyond what you can ever achieve with just enabling coders with the right set of AI-powered tools.

[00:07:15] And that's actually what we see happening.

[00:07:17] So, if you look at the way how we apply Gen.AI in our platform, it's actually looking at every single step in the software development lifecycle and what basically consumes effort and work by developers.

[00:07:30] And we're looking like, are there any opportunities to further boost the productivity of the low-code developers to get the applications out there faster?

[00:07:40] A couple of examples.

[00:07:41] If you look at how you would generate a domain model or a data model in Mendix, that's a visual editor that we provide for that.

[00:07:50] And you can drag and drop your entities, define your attributes, define your relationships, and so on, which is great because it's already kind of in an abstracted manner by compared to basically keying in database tables as a database administrator.

[00:08:04] But recently, we've introduced a chat function where you can define your idea in natural language and get a suggestion for how the data model would look like.

[00:08:15] And then you can also start to interact like, I have this idea to add to my existing data model.

[00:08:20] So, you can almost get into a combination of visual development and natural language inputs.

[00:08:27] And that's so powerful that people that are less technical can basically even more easily and more quickly define the data model.

[00:08:36] And that's only the beginning.

[00:08:37] We will apply this to logic, to workflows, to pages, and so on.

[00:08:42] And the big benefit of low-code is that it's abstracted in a way that non-technical stakeholders can still understand what's going on.

[00:08:50] Now, if you would go back to coding, just generating code, you need still the specialists to interpret what's happening behind the scenes because most of the people are not gifted to really assess what the lines of codes are doing unless you are a trained developer.

[00:09:07] And certainly, if you look at a variety of technologies with different frameworks and so on, you need almost multiple specialists to make sense out of what is generated from a code perspective.

[00:09:17] And with the abstracted and visual models, we make it accessible for a way larger audience.

[00:09:21] And that's why we believe that that is basically going to fundamentally change even how we do low-code development today.

[00:09:28] The second aspect is many of our customers are asking, like, how can we infuse Gen.AI and AI services in the applications?

[00:09:36] Because it's great if you can be more productive as a developer.

[00:09:39] But many of the organizations that we are talking to are actually asking, like, how can we benefit as an organization from digital initiatives that are powered by Gen.AI?

[00:09:47] Think about how you would handle RFPs.

[00:09:51] That's a pretty tedious process if you are in a business where you need to respond to RFPs.

[00:09:56] And Gen.AI with large language models and vector databases and all the key components of how you apply Gen.AI can be a great force to further optimize the way how you would respond to RFPs and get help and suggestions for the best answers and tweak the answers, etc.

[00:10:14] And that's actually the second track that we are working on.

[00:10:17] So making sure that it is super easy to infuse those services in Mendix applications in this case so that you can really benefit from the power of Gen.AI in the context of a Mendix application.

[00:10:30] And as an ex-IT guy, I'm not surprised to hear that governance and compliance remain critical for low-code adoption.

[00:10:37] And in the report, 73% of respondents cited reducing risk as a key benefit.

[00:10:43] So how does Mendix ensure robust governance and security for its platform?

[00:10:48] Because, again, it's probably one of those questions you get asked a lot.

[00:10:51] And it's seldom seen in those shiny presentations that we all see.

[00:10:55] But how do you tackle that?

[00:10:57] Absolutely.

[00:10:58] And I remember a conversation with the CIO of a grid operator.

[00:11:01] It was already a few years back.

[00:11:03] But he said, well, if you are making the promise that I can build applications 10 times faster, I can also create a mess 10 times faster.

[00:11:10] And that's what most of the IT professionals are really concerned about.

[00:11:15] Like if we give this type of powerful tools in the hands of people that do not necessarily think about inherent security or how to apply certain governance policies, etc.

[00:11:26] It can become really risky and also even threatening, so to say, if you are not thinking about the right security frameworks and so on.

[00:11:36] And that's why, first of all, on the platform itself, we are making sure that we adhere to, I would say, most of the industry standards for security and control frameworks.

[00:11:46] So we basically gather customers' coverage on things like SOC Type 2 compliance or specific federal regulations, for example, in the United States, FedRAMP or hefty security frameworks like IL-5 for the government agencies that are in the aerospace and defense part.

[00:12:04] All of that is basically covered by the platform.

[00:12:07] And then from a governance perspective, what's very critical is that how you deal with policies, how you deal with software composition, how you deal with advancing applications from test to development to acceptance and all the criteria that you would like to apply.

[00:12:23] It should be something that you can effectively manage for a whole portfolio of applications.

[00:12:30] So not just an individual app, because that's, I would say, pretty easy.

[00:12:33] But think about customers of ours who literally manage dozens and sometimes hundreds of applications on our platform.

[00:12:41] Then you need to make sure that there is very effective tools to make this happen by the admins.

[00:12:45] And that's why we are investing, I would say, significant in concepts like a control center.

[00:12:51] So a central console for administrators to go into where they can basically do all of the configurations and apply that centrally for all of the applications in the platform.

[00:12:59] Think about the concept of low-code pipelines so that you can define which services you would like to trigger if you are going from, for example, test to acceptance and then to production.

[00:13:09] Like, for example, do this particular vulnerability scan or make an assessment, static analysis of the intrinsic quality of my application so that I'm preventing it.

[00:13:19] I'm mounting technical debt.

[00:13:20] All these things do matter for customers, certainly in the context of a wider audience of developers that are developing on the local platform, like not just core IT people, but also people from the business.

[00:13:33] Something else I was also found incredibly refreshing to read was the fact that upskilling technical and non-technical staff is identified as a crucial factor for maximizing low-code potential.

[00:13:44] And I think when talking about any new technology, it's very easy to get distracted by that and lose sight of the importance of investing in people.

[00:13:51] So how should organizations approach training to build effective fusion teams?

[00:13:57] Yeah, that's very important.

[00:14:00] Not in the least case, because even if you would have the technical team in place, but you're not familiar with agile ways of working and the role that product owners, for example, would play or how you can effectively leverage your specialists on user experience.

[00:14:15] And if you would have the technical team in place, then you could end up with the wrong type of applications or basically optimize only for one part of the equation.

[00:14:24] And what we are actually doing is advising our customers to consistently work on what we call the five P's of digital transformation.

[00:14:33] So you need, as a program owner managing this whole program, think about your portfolio of applications.

[00:14:40] So which ones are relevant for low-code and which ones are not?

[00:14:43] You need to think about your people, like how do I establish a center of excellence, for example, in my organization that can be the spider in the web when it comes to these initiatives to be kicked off.

[00:14:55] And sometimes you work with internal teams, but you could also bring in partner teams.

[00:14:59] Same applies for processes, for how you embed the platform in the rest of your IT landscape.

[00:15:04] And last but not least, promotion, because nothing breeds more success than showing success and sparking the energy in your organization based upon success that you have with your initial applications is really important.

[00:15:17] And in our platform, we're also providing services for program owners to, first of all, assess their own maturity.

[00:15:24] Like where are we when it comes to maturity on these five P's?

[00:15:28] And how can we elevate our maturity level to such a level that it's basically applicable for where we are in our journey for low-code?

[00:15:36] Like if you start, you don't need to boil the ocean for all sorts of governance frameworks, for example, because it's just your first simple and straightforward application that you may spin up.

[00:15:46] But if you build mission-critical systems, then there's much more that comes to play.

[00:15:50] And we are actually providing playbooks for program owners and teams to upscale gradually so that they can embark upon the journey and then basically grow in levels of maturity.

[00:16:02] And that's well appreciated by certainly the larger enterprise customers that we serve because also for them, it's a kind of pathfinding approach to see how you can effectively manage and also adopt such a platform.

[00:16:18] And the report also mentions that non-technical C-suite members like COOs and CEOs are now also driving low-code adoption.

[00:16:27] So I'm curious, what challenges and opportunities do you see arising from that shift in technological decision-making dynamics?

[00:16:35] Yeah.

[00:16:36] What are you seeing there?

[00:16:37] Yeah, well, it requires more and more collaboration around digital initiatives between the IT people and the CIO and his or her team and the people from the business.

[00:16:49] But that's basically why we are so adamant about these fusion teams because there you bring the multiple disciplines together.

[00:16:55] And to your point, we are seeing a lot of adoption, for example, in business domains of low-code concepts.

[00:17:01] But at the same time, we always are making the connection between those business teams and the IT teams.

[00:17:08] Because if the business, for example, would unilaterally decide to go for a low-code platform and then not inform the IT teams about it,

[00:17:16] then you may hit a brick wall at the end of your journey because it can't be implemented or deployed or anything like that.

[00:17:22] For example, if you have a private cloud deployment policy, you need to work with the folks from IT and the DevOps teams to make it happen.

[00:17:29] But to your point, we are actually seeing that kind of cross-collaboration, not just on the level where people are clubbing the things together, but also on the executive ranks.

[00:17:40] And it's driven by a strong motivation to change the business for the better.

[00:17:45] It's also why we envision a world where ideas become outcomes.

[00:17:49] It's literally the vision that we promote as a Mendix organization.

[00:17:53] And by aligning multiple disciplines and people from multiple backgrounds, we're actually making it happen.

[00:18:00] And just to help people listening all around the world understand how you're helping businesses here,

[00:18:06] how are you helping enterprises go beyond solving things like departmental problems and thinking bigger than that to tackle transformational initiatives that actually deliver sustainable strategic impact?

[00:18:18] Because I think we're at that magical part of the year, aren't we, where everyone's looking to 2025 to do those kind of things and think bigger.

[00:18:24] So I'd love to try and harness some of that energy.

[00:18:27] How are you helping businesses there?

[00:18:29] Yeah, so our motto is actually to think big but start small.

[00:18:33] Certainly if you don't have experience with low-code yet, we wouldn't advise you to, for example, go for a core system replacement just out of the gate.

[00:18:42] You need to build a kind of muscle power and muscle memory for doing that.

[00:18:46] So we have a kind of philosophy to get you on from start to what we call structure to scale.

[00:18:53] And scale means larger amounts of applications but also more complex applications.

[00:18:58] You need to build the experience and also create the wow effect in the organization so that people become believers rather than skeptics about low-code.

[00:19:07] And what we also promote is customers talking to other customers.

[00:19:11] Like there's programs that we run where people can get inspired by what their peers in their market or their sector would do with low-code.

[00:19:19] But also bringing people from multiple sectors together so that you can be inspired by this particular organization.

[00:19:26] And this vertical is doing this with low-code.

[00:19:29] And maybe I can do a similar thing in my organization.

[00:19:33] For example, if you look at how we run customer advisory boards, we are actually bringing people from multiple countries and multiple verticals together.

[00:19:44] And ask them to basically put up their kind of wild dreams on the board.

[00:19:49] And then we start to discuss like how could we materialize this and others would give advice.

[00:19:54] And that type of collaboration really sparks ideation and also the energy in the room to take that back to your organization.

[00:20:04] Then say, well, let's go for this particular initiative.

[00:20:07] But like I said, start small and think big and then get you on the move towards more larger and more mission-critical systems.

[00:20:16] And I also think this year there's been this realization that the pace of technological change is moving at super speed.

[00:20:23] But it might never move this slow again.

[00:20:25] It'll be even faster in 2025.

[00:20:27] Oh, absolutely.

[00:20:28] So if we were to look ahead, what role do you see low-code playing in enabling organizations to better balance that need for rapid innovation with adherence to evolving to regulatory landscapes?

[00:20:41] Because there seems to be more and more of those appearing too.

[00:20:44] So any advice there?

[00:20:46] Yeah, great, great point again.

[00:20:49] Certainly if you look at all of the regulatory frameworks, you should look for a vendor that takes that burden away for you.

[00:20:55] And if you look at the list of security attestations that we kind of bring to the table out of the box, PCI compliance, all these things that really matter in Europe.

[00:21:06] DORA is becoming a big thing right now for financial institutions.

[00:21:09] And we feel a responsibility to kind of cover that out of the box.

[00:21:14] And then as a customer, you should only be bothered about the security aspects of the functional scope that you develop.

[00:21:21] Obviously, you need to do the right security and access control settings.

[00:21:24] And we can even help you to do a check whether it's complete, yes or no.

[00:21:29] But the whole burden of thinking about these frameworks should be basically taken away from customers so that they can fully focus on the functional aspects of building applications.

[00:21:39] And that's what we do.

[00:21:40] But fortunately, also other players in the market.

[00:21:43] So collectively, I think in the low-code industry, we feel an obligation to cover as much as possible of these security frameworks out of the box so that our customers can benefit globally.

[00:21:55] Well, I cannot thank you enough for sitting there with me today and sharing your invaluable insights from that low-code barometer report.

[00:22:02] We've talked about so much and covered a lot of ground in a short amount of time.

[00:22:06] For anyone listening wanting to find out more information about Mendix, about yourself, connect with your team, etc.

[00:22:12] Is there anywhere you'd like to leave everyone listening?

[00:22:15] Point them in the direction of where they can find out more?

[00:22:18] Yeah, so please visit our website.

[00:22:20] You can do a free sign-up as well to our platform and start to experiment if you're a little bit more technical and basically get a grasp for how the platform works.

[00:22:29] And we're really eager to engage with you.

[00:22:32] So if you reach out to us through the channels that you find on our website, we'll be picking it up and start the conversation.

[00:22:39] Well, I'll be leaving links to everything to make sure people can find out more information.

[00:22:43] I do urge everyone listening to check out the report.

[00:22:46] I will link to that as well.

[00:22:48] So many massive stats in there that will help guide the way in 2025 and also help people listening understand what other businesses are thinking and doing out there.

[00:22:58] But thank you for shining a light on this today, Hans.

[00:23:00] Yeah, thank you.

[00:23:01] My pleasure and good luck with other editions and episodes of your show, Neil.

[00:23:06] Thanks for having me.

[00:23:08] As we've heard from my guest today, low-code development is not just about making software easier to build.

[00:23:14] It's actually about creating a bridge between technical and non-technical teams.

[00:23:19] It's about empowering businesses to innovate faster and smarter.

[00:23:24] And when you start integrating AI and addressing governance and security and focusing on upskilling,

[00:23:31] I think Mendix is helping pave the way for enterprises to embrace the full potential of low-code in a responsible way.

[00:23:40] But what does this mean for your organisation's approach to digital transformation?

[00:23:44] Could the fusion of low-code and AI, could that help you tackle challenges and seize new opportunities?

[00:23:52] Let me know your thoughts as always.

[00:23:54] Tech blog writer at outlook.com.

[00:23:56] LinkedIn, Instagram, just at Neil C. Hughes.

[00:23:59] Let's continue the conversation by you sharing your insights.

[00:24:03] But enough from me.

[00:24:05] I'll be back again bright and early tomorrow.

[00:24:06] But thank you for listening as always.

[00:24:08] And I will speak with you all then.