3124: Designing for Innovation: How HED is Transforming STEM Workspaces

[00:00:04] How do you design a workspace that fosters innovation, supports diversity and keeps up with the ever-evolving demands of modern science?

[00:00:14] Well today I'm excited to be exploring the intricate world of lab design and the pivotal role that it plays in shaping the future of STEM.

[00:00:24] My guest is Mary-Lee Lloyd, she's a seasoned architect and senior lab planner at HED, one of the nation's leading architecture and engineering firms.

[00:00:36] And with vast experience in the industry, she has worked with some of the most recognised names in the industry and academia from Ford Motor Company to Northwestern University.

[00:00:47] So in my conversation today, she's going to be shedding light on the best practices for lab design that go beyond functionality, prioritising everything from cleanliness, safety, sustainability and inclusivity.

[00:01:01] And she'll also share insights on how thoughtful lab environments can be useful in helping recruit and retaining top STEM talent while also driving innovation through collaboration.

[00:01:14] So what can modern lab design teach us about building spaces that inspire the best in people?

[00:01:21] And how can we ensure these environments are prepared to meet the challenges of tomorrow in an AI world?

[00:01:28] Well, let's get my guest on now to talk about all this and much more.

[00:01:34] So a massive warm welcome to the show.

[00:01:37] Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:01:41] Yeah, I'm Marilee Lloyd.

[00:01:43] I am an architect and laboratory planner.

[00:01:47] I'm with a company called HED.

[00:01:49] And we have a variety of sectors across the architectural and engineering spectrum.

[00:01:56] I happen to lead our laboratory planning practice within that.

[00:02:02] I focus on science, STEM kinds of facilities, be they for universities, teaching or research, or for our corporate or institutional governmental clients.

[00:02:14] So all sorts of kinds of things, but focused on science and focused on the lab.

[00:02:19] So that's what I do.

[00:02:21] So incredibly cool.

[00:02:22] And so much to unpack there.

[00:02:23] I've got to ask, I mean, you've got such extensive experience in laboratory design and for such a wide range of industries too.

[00:02:33] So I've got to ask, what's your origin story?

[00:02:35] What was it that attracted you to that field?

[00:02:37] And how have you also seen the role of lab design evolve throughout your career?

[00:02:43] I would imagine you've seen a lot of changes.

[00:02:45] Well, yeah, I've been, I was just thinking about this in preparation and I've been in practice as a licensed architect for 35 years and working for nearly 40 and doing science focused work for the vast majority of that.

[00:03:08] So 30 of those 35 years.

[00:03:11] In that time, a lot has changed both from the way we practice architecture and the way we look at science facilities.

[00:03:20] I have found the practice to be more technical focused.

[00:03:27] We have gone from actually drawing to electronic drawing.

[00:03:32] Our models are now electronic and three dimensional in terms of the practice of lab design, laboratory focused architecture.

[00:03:44] I think of lab planning and lab design as a linkage discipline and a specialty within a specialty, within a specialty, actually.

[00:03:58] It's bringing together both the, for me, the left and the right sides of the brain.

[00:04:05] So you have to be a logical think systems focused thinker, and you have to be a creative, innovative, sort of divergent thinking professional, bringing both of those together.

[00:04:20] And that, I think, is the crux of what brought me to it.

[00:04:23] I really love the idea that I had to engage both sides of my brain.

[00:04:29] And when I was a kid, even in high school, I was super interested in my AP anatomy class.

[00:04:37] Loved it.

[00:04:38] Loved figuring out how things worked.

[00:04:41] So when I had the opportunity to go off to college, I thought, well, do I want to go into a medical kind of discipline?

[00:04:49] And I was really interested in genetics.

[00:04:52] So I thought, maybe I'll do that.

[00:04:54] And then my dad happened to have been an engineer.

[00:04:58] But and so I met a lot of architects and engineers growing up.

[00:05:02] But and I loved that as well.

[00:05:04] So went to architecture school, realized a couple of years after graduating that, hey, maybe I can do both.

[00:05:12] So lab design offers me this great opportunity to do both things, to engage both parts of my brain, to be able to do things that are science focused, to talk to some of the most interesting people and develop spaces for them, understand what they're doing, understand their goals and their needs.

[00:05:37] Because that's how you design something really well is to really get inside and understand what their needs are.

[00:05:44] So long story.

[00:05:46] But that's that's how I came to do what I do.

[00:05:49] Incredibly cool story, too.

[00:05:51] And I love how your your passion still remains as well.

[00:05:54] And I can see that just by talking to you today, how excited you are to still be working in this area and still be talking to these so many different, interesting people.

[00:06:03] And I would imagine another big changes lab environments are no longer just spaces filled with scientific equipment, but almost becoming hubs of innovation and collaboration.

[00:06:13] So what would you say are some of the key design elements that the modern lab must incorporate to foster productivity and meet those diverse needs of today's STEM professionals?

[00:06:24] Because again, you must have seen so many big changes here.

[00:06:28] Yeah, you know, I think that a lot of things have changed over time.

[00:06:33] And one, I guess, overarching thing is we've gone from very almost cellular specific spaces for each principal investigator, their own specific room, hard walls to a far more adaptable, flexible, open, perhaps maybe multiple PIs, especially at a research institution in the same space.

[00:07:00] So that evolution, that adaptability, that flexibility, that openness has broken down barriers.

[00:07:11] So that influences the way we have to design and visualize these spaces.

[00:07:17] But it also changes the way those individuals in those spaces interact with each other.

[00:07:23] There is much greater opportunity for them to have those coincidence of interaction just as they go about their day, both in terms of walking through the broader building and within the lab itself.

[00:07:41] We recently completed a new research facility at Michigan Technical University.

[00:07:48] And there at MTU, one of the researchers, a super cool lady, she and I were talking and she pointed out that she now has the opportunity to run into and talk to more of her colleagues more frequently based on this interdisciplinary institute that HSTEM building that we have produced for them.

[00:08:16] And so she's got more interaction, more opportunities to engage with others.

[00:08:22] So it has enlivened and enriched her research.

[00:08:26] And she also sees her students doing the same thing within their sphere.

[00:08:34] So we find that getting PIs to talk to each other more frequently improves engagement, their happiness and their research.

[00:08:46] And also getting those technical staff, if it's at an institution or students, if it's research students or postdocs, getting them to engage at their level gives them the opportunity to cross pollinate ideas.

[00:09:07] So they're learning at their level.

[00:09:10] Everybody's growing.

[00:09:11] So it builds on itself.

[00:09:15] So that's broadly one of the changes I see, just that adaptability, that flexibility and that focus on collaboration.

[00:09:24] Now, technology has sort of changed the way we do everything from the way we design and engage as architects and engineers and the way science professionals do what they do.

[00:09:38] You know, so that whole scope has changed just because the technology has evolved.

[00:09:50] Another thing that we keep reading about again and again is attracting people from different backgrounds and increasing, getting more women into step talent as well.

[00:10:01] So recruiting and retaining that top talent is a major challenge.

[00:10:06] So how does integrating sophisticated workplace design with lab environments, how does that help organizations better attract graduates or even get people into that field who have such a wide range of career options in front of them at the moment?

[00:10:22] Well, you know, I think we want to design a whole facility.

[00:10:29] You're not just designing a lab.

[00:10:32] It's not just the science environment.

[00:10:34] It's part of a whole landscape, what we call the new scientific works workplace.

[00:10:40] You know, this whole landscape in my parlance.

[00:10:46] I refer to it as spresatura.

[00:10:48] It's that air of perfect nationalness.

[00:10:52] It's that ability to bring that whole together.

[00:10:55] So they're not just two separate environments.

[00:10:56] They're one whole that works together.

[00:10:59] So that means that our students that are coming in are having a whole experience.

[00:11:07] They have places to collaborate, a place where they can sit down and take a phone call if they need to.

[00:11:13] So having those spaces for them is important.

[00:11:17] And having, like I said, both the collaborative, the supportive space for them to grab a coffee and walk away from the lab for a few minutes.

[00:11:26] Because we do find that being able to refocus is super important to be able to come back and do innovative work.

[00:11:34] Also, really basic things like being able to look up, even when you're in the lab, where you can, to be able to look up and see daylight.

[00:11:44] Be able to tell that you are connected to the environment.

[00:11:48] I like to, wherever I can, and again, in some lab spaces you can't, wherever I can though, allow them to see to the outside, to be able to engage and understand what time of day it is.

[00:12:03] I mean, that sounds so basic and elemental, but it makes a huge difference.

[00:12:07] You know, we do things like making sure that the LED lights in the space are color balanced for natural light so that they, you feel like you're getting natural light.

[00:12:19] And that lighting can change throughout the day so it starts to mimic what's really going on outside.

[00:12:27] So that level of engagement helps support human beings.

[00:12:32] So that's, that's the level at where, that's where design is.

[00:12:38] And being able to engage, that makes, that helps them to be better engaged, better, better researchers of one stripe or another.

[00:12:50] I think also providing all of those spaces helps companies really pull in these new recruits.

[00:12:58] New folks from graduating from colleges really seem to want that level of support and engagement in their, they want these alternative workspaces.

[00:13:13] They've been able to do that in their educational career so far, and they want to bring that into the workspace.

[00:13:22] They also want to engage with other professionals.

[00:13:26] They really want to learn.

[00:13:56] Of clinical trials, for instance, you can't just have that narrow spectrum.

[00:14:00] You don't get as good scientific results if you have just a narrow spectrum of people that you're drawing from.

[00:14:08] The same is true for those people designing those experiments.

[00:14:12] So it's, you know, it's a trickle down kind of thing.

[00:14:16] Wow, that was a long answer for your question.

[00:14:20] No, at all.

[00:14:21] An incredibly powerful answer.

[00:14:23] And I think there were so many great messages in that too.

[00:14:26] And if we look at some of the, well, behind the scenes of a lab, I would imagine belts and braces approach are safety, cleanliness, and sustainability.

[00:14:36] All critical factors in lab settings.

[00:14:38] But are there any other best practices for designing labs that not only meet those traditional standards, but also allow it to adapt to the rapidly changing needs for scientific research?

[00:14:49] Well, yes.

[00:14:52] We try to design with a sustainable focus, making sure that those spaces are readily adaptable and supportive of people.

[00:15:07] And a lot of that is from an adaptable and supportive environment.

[00:15:12] It's being able to switch out some benching readily to be able to put a new piece of equipment in.

[00:15:19] So being able to make that swap.

[00:15:20] And that means modularizing where the services might come in above the service carrier or an adaptable flexible system above the ceiling plane overhead, whether there's a ceiling or not.

[00:15:37] Depends on what the lab needs.

[00:15:40] And so being able to easily switch those things out, even basics like being able to change the height of the work surface.

[00:15:48] Now, that makes it a better environment for the human.

[00:15:51] It also makes it more flexible for the kind of thing you want to put on top of that bench.

[00:15:58] You know, if you lower it down to 24 inches, you can put a mass spec stack on there a little bit easier.

[00:16:05] You know, there are a variety of ways that that can be used to accommodate that flexibility can be used to accommodate different work modes, different needs of the instruments and equipment.

[00:16:19] So I would imagine also in your world, diversity of thought is so important in resolving complex problems.

[00:16:27] And diversity, equity and inclusion would be crucial in fostering innovation in science.

[00:16:33] So how thoughtful is lab design in contributing to creating that more inclusive environment?

[00:16:39] And what are the specific design strategies that you might have employed to ultimately support those DEI initiatives in STEM fields?

[00:16:46] Because again, something we don't talk about enough, but it's fundamental, right?

[00:16:50] It is fundamental.

[00:16:51] And I think there are a lot of different ways we approach that.

[00:16:54] And the primary thing is just starting the conversation, engaging our clients and saying, okay, what is your, who comes to your office?

[00:17:06] Who do you want to come to your workspace?

[00:17:09] Who is your target?

[00:17:12] And how can we support them?

[00:17:15] How do we, from a macro scale, how do we get people to the building?

[00:17:20] Is that possible through different modes of transportation?

[00:17:24] So someone who doesn't have a car, can they get there by train or bus?

[00:17:29] So macro level.

[00:17:31] At a building level, do we have the support of gender non-specific restrooms?

[00:17:41] How do we deal with restrooms now?

[00:17:44] That's a whole story in and of itself.

[00:17:48] There's also those supportive spaces like a room.

[00:17:53] We used to, at one point, call them lactation rooms, mother's rooms.

[00:17:58] I just see them now as quiet rooms, support rooms.

[00:18:02] You know, it's a pretty neutral term.

[00:18:06] But you need those rooms, I think, for a variety of purposes.

[00:18:10] Be that for someone who is lactating and needs to take care of that.

[00:18:15] Someone who needs to have an injection of insulin or some other thing during the day where they need that supportive, quiet environment where they can just go do that.

[00:18:26] Someone who is neurodivergent and needs a quiet space too.

[00:18:33] Lots of people.

[00:18:34] And, you know, not five minutes of quiet time does someone a world of good and allows them to come back refreshed.

[00:18:42] Being able to even just take that private phone call and call your doc to make your yearly appointment.

[00:18:48] You know, it's basic stuff like that that really makes your life easier and makes you a better person and able to focus on your research.

[00:18:58] So, that, you know, we say DEI and, but what we mean is including everybody.

[00:19:07] It is making that space comfortable and open for everyone to be able to bring their best selves.

[00:19:20] So, that's part of the focus.

[00:19:22] I think that whole idea of DEI amongst sustainability and resilient buildings, that whole group of thought, all of that thought is similar in that it contributes to a whole ethos of making a building and that building in a community stronger and better.

[00:19:51] And for there to be better science, ultimately.

[00:19:56] It's so good to hear you say that.

[00:19:58] I think when you say the DEI out loud, a lot of people have certain perceptions of what that actually means.

[00:20:04] But as you said there, there's something like somewhere anybody can go.

[00:20:08] Everyone can go for five minutes of quiet time.

[00:20:10] It can feel like a complete reset is so important.

[00:20:14] And it means everyone, not just a few people.

[00:20:17] Right.

[00:20:17] And when you were doing a little, well, when I was doing a little research on you, one of the things I learned as well is you've worked on projects for some major clients too, from Ford Motor Company to Qualcomm and so many leading research universities.

[00:20:32] So, I've got to ask, are there any examples of a particularly, I don't know, challenging project that you might have been involved in and how you approach the unique design requirements?

[00:20:42] I'm sure every single one is completely different.

[00:20:45] There's only so much you can share.

[00:20:47] So, you don't have to name anyone.

[00:20:48] But any big challenges that really stand out to you there?

[00:20:52] You know, I think that you're right.

[00:20:57] I try to approach each client and each building for all of our clients as requiring a unique solution.

[00:21:08] Because even if it's the same client, that building in a different location or for a different group is going to be different because the community and the typologies are going to be different.

[00:21:19] So, making sure you understand the goals and vision, the strategic plan for that facility is crucial in order to make it come together most appropriately.

[00:21:33] But being able to, I think that one of the big challenges is when you've got a building where you're doing multiple kinds of things, be that, I'll pick on a building that we're completing right now, quite large.

[00:21:56] And it's got a series of research laboratories, scale up space, which is pilot plans where they're beginning to try to figure out how to produce at a small scale.

[00:22:11] And then they've got a larger production line.

[00:22:15] And all of understanding how those flows work of materials, of people, people in the lab and people not in the lab, how you make visitors come in and flow through that, being able to tour it without seeing things that might be challenging

[00:22:37] or be information that the client does not want just everybody to see.

[00:22:43] So, it is meshing all of those needs and requirements when you've got multiple types of space.

[00:22:54] It gets to be really challenging.

[00:22:56] And I will say that there is always unique equipment and equipment is always one of those absolutely challenging things because users have very specific requirements, very specific needs.

[00:23:15] We can do a lot with modularity and being able to adapt to a variety of different systems and being able to provide systems support flexibly.

[00:23:28] But being able to support each type of piece of it, because there's no way we can know where each inlet for each type of different,

[00:23:42] different, oh gosh, even VAV boxes in a ceiling.

[00:23:49] Different manufacturers have different ways that they connect to the ductwork.

[00:23:54] And that's just something that is standard within our industry, let alone a very specific piece of equipment or instrument the client may specify and purchase themselves

[00:24:05] that we won't know or really get the final details until they either finalize the purchase, which may or may not be before the building is built.

[00:24:19] So, juggling that is really challenging.

[00:24:22] So, very different, you know, macro scale, micro scale kinds of things.

[00:24:28] But those are the challenges that you fly through and you work with.

[00:24:34] That's why I think of lab planning as a linkage discipline because I am at once dealing with our end users and with the facilities people in the building that we're building,

[00:24:49] the facility that we're building or adding onto or renovating and with our in-house or outside consultants in terms of mechanical, electrical, IT kinds of engineering.

[00:25:03] So, that linkage is critically important.

[00:25:08] Awesome.

[00:25:09] When doing a little research, something else I was learning about is that the concept of a new scientific workplace is also gaining a lot of traction,

[00:25:19] especially because of the focus on collaboration and a space where scientists love to work.

[00:25:24] And talking to you today, I could tell you love where you work too.

[00:25:28] But for people listening outside of this space, can you tell me a little bit more about the framework and, again, how it differs from those traditional lab design models?

[00:25:37] Yeah.

[00:25:38] You know, I think of the new scientific workplace and what I think of as a layer inside that, the divergent laboratory.

[00:25:45] Both of those things, those constructs are ways to engage and understand the lab and the building as a whole and make those things flexible.

[00:26:00] So, the scientific workspace means the building as a whole and not just a single lab or not just a series of cubicles or offices and conference rooms.

[00:26:17] It's that whole environment.

[00:26:20] And so, we think of it as a whole workplace.

[00:26:25] So, it's the scientific workplace, the whole of the workplace.

[00:26:28] And those things like conference rooms, like phone rooms, like collaboration, just those collaboration nooks, a coffee bar, in addition to a mass spec suite or an equipment room or a glass wash area,

[00:26:52] all of those things contribute to a different way to a different way to a different way to a different way to a different way.

[00:27:23] specific answer or answers to a question that's being posed, a thesis being posed by research.

[00:27:30] So, that's how I see those things.

[00:27:33] So, it's bringing together that whole and developing, bringing all of our experts across our firm or our professionals into this space to solve problems for our clients.

[00:27:48] And I think it's also time to start thinking about life in 2025.

[00:27:53] Just saying that out loud freaks me out a little bit as I'm out of a certain age.

[00:27:57] I remember thinking this day would never come.

[00:28:00] But looking ahead, are there any other trends that you see shaping the future of lab design, particularly as it relates to things like sustainability,

[00:28:09] technological integration and the evolving expectations of those next generation of scientists, too?

[00:28:15] Well, I think a couple of things.

[00:28:17] One, sustainability is going to be critical.

[00:28:20] And I think we have to broaden that to be, to say, resiliency.

[00:28:25] And so, a focus on making our facilities more resilient, whether that means hardening systems so that they are less hackable,

[00:28:35] or providing solar or photovoltaic cells so that research can continue even during an outage,

[00:28:47] or so that that facility can contribute to the grid, and understanding how it works for the grid.

[00:28:54] So, that level of resilience is critical.

[00:29:02] And I think, so thinking about sustainability, not just in terms of the one single point, but a broader piece, making it more resilient.

[00:29:10] You know, I think of things like even high-performance fume hoods, which fume hoods are used in a lot of laboratories.

[00:29:18] And we can make those more sustainable, which reduces the overall energy cost.

[00:29:24] And so, it improves the environment overall.

[00:29:27] A client is spending less money over time on their energy.

[00:29:33] So, things like that help.

[00:29:36] I think that there's also going to be more emphasis on how we use technology.

[00:29:44] AI is, you know, on everybody's lips and how we're going to make, integrate that.

[00:29:50] I think that aside, and some of the issues that you might hear about with respect to creative imagery and that sort of thing,

[00:30:04] we use it, we, I think that there's enormous potential in terms of some of the use for analysis of research.

[00:30:13] And data within the research community.

[00:30:19] So, that I think is where a focus for that.

[00:30:25] Technologically, how we are able to visualize our spaces for our clients.

[00:30:30] We now are able to offer them a 3D image of what their space can look like.

[00:30:39] And most folks don't design or are not involved in 10 research buildings in their entire career.

[00:30:50] So, understanding what a floor plan looks like and what that really means to them is that two-dimensional thing is really hard to read.

[00:31:00] So, providing them a 3D image, enormously helpful.

[00:31:04] So, whether that be what we call an axonometric or a picture, both of those options help them visualize.

[00:31:14] So, I think technologically, we're going to be able to provide them a more immersive experience to understand their space better.

[00:31:23] So, that I think is the thrust of part of how my industry is changing.

[00:31:31] Kind of fun.

[00:31:32] Yeah, a lot of fun.

[00:31:34] And I love chatting with you today about lab design best practices.

[00:31:37] And I think we went 30 minutes without mentioning AI, which is a record on its own in a tech podcast in 2024.

[00:31:44] But I'd like to continue to have a little bit of fun with you now.

[00:31:47] I always ask my guests to leave everyone listening with two final gifts.

[00:31:51] One is a song for our Spotify playlist, Guilty Pleasures Are Allowed.

[00:31:56] And one is a book for our Amazon wishlist for anyone that would like to check out a book you recommend.

[00:32:02] But all I'm going to ask is, what would you like to leave us with and why?

[00:32:05] Okay.

[00:32:06] I think that I'll start with songs.

[00:32:11] And I'm going to say songs, plural, because, you know, I think the influences change.

[00:32:18] It feels like there are different points in my life where different things were influential.

[00:32:23] And so, there were different crux points.

[00:32:25] So, kind of go through that.

[00:32:29] And music and literature both have been really super important to me.

[00:32:34] So, musically, I think when I was growing up, my dad was a big jazz fan.

[00:32:42] And so, Brubeck was a constant in our house.

[00:32:46] So, take five.

[00:32:47] Oh, yeah.

[00:32:47] Yeah.

[00:32:48] Made me think about music differently.

[00:32:52] It made me think about timing and pacing.

[00:32:58] And, I mean, even as a kid, even as a 12-year-old, this was like fiercely interesting.

[00:33:04] Because the way that piece of music works really made me think about how music works and how life works, right?

[00:33:15] And maybe that's heady for a 12-year-old, but here I am.

[00:33:19] So, there's that.

[00:33:21] And when I was in college, skipping forward, while this was earlier than my college years,

[00:33:30] I think one of my favorite songs that sort of encapsulated architecture school

[00:33:36] and all that was going on in my life was Traffic's Low Spark of the High-Heeled Boys.

[00:33:43] Whoa, yes.

[00:33:44] That's another classic.

[00:33:46] So, you know, that's kind of where that was.

[00:33:51] And now, you know, I'm thinking lately, I'm listening to Hozier and his Nina Cried Power,

[00:34:01] I think is a song I would leave you and your listeners with.

[00:34:07] Because I think that, especially live, I saw Hozier live not too long ago, and that was absolutely dynamite.

[00:34:16] And so, again, made me think.

[00:34:20] Oh, man.

[00:34:20] I'm going to be, I need to check that one out.

[00:34:22] I've not heard that particular track.

[00:34:24] So, I'll get that.

[00:34:25] I might even have the other two as well to the Spotify playlist.

[00:34:28] What about a book?

[00:34:29] Any books that speak to mind?

[00:34:31] Well, again, Continuum, right?

[00:34:36] One of, I think pivotal for me was a history book.

[00:34:44] Jansen's, and it's a compendium, a huge book, History of Art and Architecture.

[00:34:49] And that made me think about how the interplay between art and architecture.

[00:34:57] And that was pivotal, I think, as I was going through architecture to make me think about communities

[00:35:04] and the growth of communities over time.

[00:35:08] And how societies influence buildings and buildings influence societies.

[00:35:15] And how community and environment works.

[00:35:19] And how important art is to life.

[00:35:22] So, as an architect, that was kind of a pivotal moment.

[00:35:28] And so, that's sort of the non-fiction.

[00:35:31] And the fiction side of things would be Dan Simmons' Hyperion series, science fiction.

[00:35:41] And I like that for a couple of reasons.

[00:35:45] One, it's fascinating, fascinating human stories.

[00:35:49] And about science, science fiction.

[00:35:52] And it's also written to me.

[00:35:58] It reads a little bit like Chaucer's Canterbury Tales.

[00:36:02] In that it has all these very different stories of these different people.

[00:36:08] So, I liked it both as a historical throwback and a wildly innovative science fiction story.

[00:36:17] Oh, man.

[00:36:17] Absolutely brilliant.

[00:36:18] Well, I'll get those added to the Amazon wish list too.

[00:36:21] You've left us with some pure gold here.

[00:36:24] Especially when we put that alongside your insights that you've left us with.

[00:36:28] So, for anyone listening, they want to find out more information about you, your team, your work.

[00:36:32] And maybe exploring some of what we talked about today.

[00:36:35] Where would you like to point everyone listening?

[00:36:37] Well, the HED website.

[00:36:40] And you can find me on LinkedIn.

[00:36:43] Mary Lee Lloyd.

[00:36:44] Either one of those things.

[00:36:47] Contact us.

[00:36:48] We love to do good work.

[00:36:49] I love to do great stuff.

[00:36:51] So, hey.

[00:36:52] Shout out to us.

[00:36:54] Well, man.

[00:36:55] I think we covered so much today for those lab design best practices and the work that you're doing there.

[00:37:01] The importance of DEI initiatives.

[00:37:03] But I think more than anything, I just absolutely love the finale of our conversation there.

[00:37:08] Listening to how you listen to music here in Take 5 for the first time.

[00:37:12] Made you want to deconstruct that.

[00:37:14] Understand how that works.

[00:37:15] And also the interplay between art and architecture and how that shapes society.

[00:37:20] Honestly, we could talk about this stuff for hours.

[00:37:22] But just thank you so much for sharing your insights today.

[00:37:25] Really appreciate your time.

[00:37:27] Not a problem.

[00:37:28] I absolutely enjoyed the conversation.

[00:37:30] Thanks a lot.

[00:37:31] Wow.

[00:37:32] What a fantastic guest.

[00:37:33] I think she gave us such a fascinating glimpse into the world of lab design.

[00:37:37] A world that I knew very little about before our conversation today.

[00:37:41] So, I loved hearing about a world where architecture meets science to create spaces that inspire discovery and innovation.

[00:37:51] It was also great to hear insights on everything from sustainability, inclusivity, adaptability,

[00:37:57] and of course a few tech trends thrown in about how labs can be more than just places for scientific work.

[00:38:03] They can actually be hubs for transformation, collaboration, and progress.

[00:38:09] But what resonated most with you from this conversation today?

[00:38:13] How do you see lab design shaping the future of STEM?

[00:38:17] Let me know your thoughts.

[00:38:19] And don't forget to share this episode with anyone passionate about the intersection of science, architecture, and diversity.

[00:38:26] If you know anyone that this would appeal to, please send them over.

[00:38:30] Say Neil sent you.

[00:38:32] Other than that, let me know your thoughts.

[00:38:34] Tech blog writer at outlook.com.

[00:38:36] Follow me on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Twitter.

[00:38:39] Just at Neil C. Hughes.

[00:38:41] But don't just hit that follow button.

[00:38:43] Send me a little message.

[00:38:44] Tell me what episode you listened to and anything you'd like to share with me too.

[00:38:49] But that's it for today.

[00:38:50] Time for me to go now.

[00:38:51] But thank you for listening as always.

[00:38:53] And I will be back bright and early again tomorrow morning.

[00:38:57] Bye for now.

[00:39:03] Bye for now.

[00:39:04] Bye for now.

[00:39:04] Bye for now.

[00:39:04] Bye for now.

[00:39:04] Bye for now.