3138: The Lifelong Learning Revolution: Insights on Micro-Credentials from D2L

[00:00:04] How are micro-credentials and short educational courses reshaping the future of higher education?

[00:00:11] Well today I want to explore this question with my guest Rob Telfer, Director of Higher Education at D2L.

[00:00:20] And together we'll explore how these innovative learning formats are meeting the demands of a rapidly evolving workforce.

[00:00:28] With more than 20 years of experience spanning technology and education, Rob brings with him today a wealth of knowledge on how institutions can better adapt and offer flexible, scalable and more impactful learning experiences.

[00:00:45] So in today's episode we'll talk about the rise of micro-credentials as a solution for lifelong learning and workforce development.

[00:00:53] And also discuss the role of government and industry partnerships, ensuring the program relevance and the strategies universities can adopt to successfully implement and market these offerings.

[00:01:06] I will also discuss the challenges of balancing innovation with maintaining educational standards.

[00:01:12] I'll also learn more about D2L's Brightspace platform, how that supports institutions in navigating some of the complexities that we're seeing out there.

[00:01:21] And it does have some pretty cool features as well from adaptive learning and AI powered tools.

[00:01:27] But as higher education faces declining enrollment and increasing automation, can micro-credentials provide a pathway to sustain relevance and success?

[00:01:40] Well, let's uncover the possibilities together as I introduce you to today's guest.

[00:01:46] So a massive warm welcome to the show.

[00:01:49] Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:01:54] Yeah, happy to. Thanks, Neil.

[00:01:56] And thanks for having me on the show.

[00:01:59] So my name is Rob Telfer and I'm Director of Education for D2L's Europe, Middle East and Africa business.

[00:02:05] You can probably tell from my accent, I'm a Scotsman.

[00:02:08] So I'm originally from Upper Side Aberdeen, currently living in Glasgow.

[00:02:13] If listeners are unfamiliar with D2L, you could probably describe us as a learning innovation company.

[00:02:19] We developed technology called the Brightspace Learning Management System and also interactive learning applications like H5P.

[00:02:29] So our technology is used by millions and millions of learners all over the world.

[00:02:34] At companies in just about every industry imaginable, as well as in universities, colleges, K-12 schools.

[00:02:41] So we support learners at every age and every stage of life.

[00:02:45] My background from a professional perspective is kind of diverse.

[00:02:51] So I've spent more than 20 years working in various technology companies and I actually spent a large portion of my career working in aviation.

[00:03:00] So I worked in aviation safety, I worked in airport management, I worked in aircraft maintenance, but always on the tech side.

[00:03:08] So I'm a bit of an aviation geek and it's just a happy accident that I made my way into education.

[00:03:14] I transitioned over to D2L at the height of the coronavirus pandemic when there wasn't a vaccine.

[00:03:20] Although it's been a, as I said, happy accident and it really has been.

[00:03:23] It's been an incredibly rewarding move to join a company where, I don't know how much you've read about us,

[00:03:30] but really our raison d'etre is to improve human potential, make sure that learners that use our platforms can benefit from our technology

[00:03:40] to acquire the skills, the knowledge, the certificates, the badges, the degrees, etc., that they need to be successful in their lives.

[00:03:47] So it's a very rewarding place to be.

[00:03:51] Yeah, you guys have been on my radar for some time, especially how you're using technology to transform the way that the world learns.

[00:03:59] And I think it would be three, maybe four years ago, I've had Stuart Watts and Jeremy Auger on here on separate occasions.

[00:04:07] Are they still at D2L? Do you know those guys?

[00:04:10] I do. I work very closely with Stuart in particular over in the European region.

[00:04:15] But yeah, Jeremy as well, I know quite well. So yeah, those guys are still here.

[00:04:19] I didn't realize they'd both been on your podcast too, but yeah, that's cool.

[00:04:23] Small world.

[00:04:24] Of course, obviously, I spoke to them about three, four years ago,

[00:04:27] but how do you see short courses and things like micro-credentials shaping the future of higher education,

[00:04:34] particularly in terms of meeting the demands of the rapidly evolving workforce due to things like automation, digitization, AI, of course.

[00:04:43] There's so much going on here since that last conversation I had with your colleagues.

[00:04:49] So what are you seeing here?

[00:04:51] It's an interesting subject, Neil.

[00:04:55] Firstly, I would say that micro-credentials, in my opinion, are here to stay and short courses that offer some sort of tangible reward or a benefit upon completion,

[00:05:07] whether it's a badge or a certificate or a diploma of some description, they are going to play a key role in the education system going forward.

[00:05:15] And I'll share why I think that's the case.

[00:05:18] If I think about my dad, if I think about my granddad or their generations, education was typically front-loaded at the start of one's life.

[00:05:28] In other words, you went to school, then you possibly went to college or you went to university before you began a career.

[00:05:35] Or alternatively, you might have entered a trade or you started an apprenticeship or maybe you joined the armed forces or something like that.

[00:05:42] But really, the end of your formal education ended with your youth.

[00:05:46] And then you would potentially stay in the same industry or maybe the same job for decades.

[00:05:52] And this really isn't the case anymore.

[00:05:55] People on average these days, they hold 12, maybe 13 jobs over their career.

[00:06:00] They can change industry like I did.

[00:06:03] And the shelf life of skills, particularly for technical skills, if you're a coder, for example, can be as low as two to five years.

[00:06:12] I was also reading some pretty scary stuff from the World Economic Forum.

[00:06:15] And according to them, the clever people there, tens of millions of jobs are at risk.

[00:06:20] They could disappear due to AI, like you mentioned.

[00:06:25] So I think it's really of paramount importance that people can flexibly upskill, reskill and assimilate new knowledge throughout their lifetimes.

[00:06:35] Of course, there's lots of informal learning opportunities available today.

[00:06:40] I mean, look at YouTube.

[00:06:41] But if you want to acquire a formal qualification which holds real weight in your chosen profession or industry, then you need to follow a structured learning path from a credible education provider.

[00:06:55] And micro-credentials are a solution for this.

[00:06:58] But crucially, without the massive investment in time and money associated with trying to pursue a traditional degree, for example.

[00:07:07] So given these kind of societal and demographic changes, I think that most universities and colleges, they can't afford to just simply offer campus-based education to predominantly young people.

[00:07:23] Some universities and colleges will get away with that.

[00:07:26] But I think for most to stay relevant and financially viable in the modern world, most institutions are going to have to tap into that big market of, let's call them lifelong learners.

[00:07:42] And offering micro-credentials is a good way to do that.

[00:07:46] Also worth mentioning that micro-credentials can also potentially be stacked.

[00:07:51] So you can build them towards a larger qualification like a degree.

[00:07:56] And that modular approach allows learners to sort of build their expertise in a way that suits their lives.

[00:08:02] You know, their personal lives, their family commitments, their job commitments.

[00:08:06] So yeah, that's why I think that micro-credentials are definitely here to stay and have a key role in education going forward.

[00:08:13] Yeah, I completely agree with you.

[00:08:15] And before you came on the podcast today, I was doing a little research on my own.

[00:08:18] And there's some pretty big stats that I saw there.

[00:08:21] One was, I think, 72% of employers are more likely to hire candidates that have micro-credentials.

[00:08:27] And also 90% of students and recent graduates believe that micro-credentials will help them stand out to potential employers.

[00:08:35] So from a larger scale, though, especially here in the UK, what role do you believe that the government and industry partnerships can play in the development of some of these micro-credential programs?

[00:08:46] And how can educational institutions also foster these collaborations more effectively, do you think?

[00:08:52] Yeah, so government and industry partnerships, I think, can certainly help in the development of micro-credential programs.

[00:09:01] Mainly, I think, to ensure that the programs are aligned to real-world needs, which will give them relevance and importance and make them valuable.

[00:09:12] You mentioned the government.

[00:09:14] So I think on the government side, governments can potentially help by providing funding and resources in the form of grants and subsidies.

[00:09:23] Obviously, it benefits the government to have a skillful and productive workforce.

[00:09:30] So they have a vested interest in that.

[00:09:33] They can also help by potentially establishing policy and regulation around micro-credentials and things like that.

[00:09:41] But some governments are already quite progressive in their support for micro-credentials.

[00:09:46] I don't know how well read you are on the subject, but we don't have to look too far.

[00:09:50] Just across the pond over in Ireland, for example, the Irish have been very much pioneers in incorporating micro-credentials into their national qualification framework.

[00:10:01] And for anyone that's listening to the podcast, if you are very interested in this stuff, then I would definitely point you towards the Irish Universities Association website, which outlines this work.

[00:10:15] Other countries that are quite progressive in this space, the likes of New Zealand, Australia, Estonia, some in Africa.

[00:10:25] In terms of industry partners, yeah, as I kind of mentioned, I think that their input can help ensure that the programs meet real-world needs and that the skills and the competencies that can be gained through a micro-credential program are actually going to be really beneficial and help a learner perhaps get a better job.

[00:10:45] In terms of fostering these partnerships, I think communication is key.

[00:10:52] So establish clear communication channels, but also try and sort of seek alignment on things like policy, governance, quality assurance.

[00:11:03] Governments and educational institutions can also potentially create incentives for industry partners to participate.

[00:11:10] So perhaps offering things like tax benefits and also opportunities for public and private partnerships, whatever form that takes.

[00:11:21] And you mentioned some great examples there, progressive universities and everywhere from Ireland to Estonia.

[00:11:29] And for anybody listening in the education system, maybe a university looking to integrate some of these short courses, what are the key challenges that they may face in maintaining that academic integrity and educational standards that are so important to them?

[00:11:45] Any challenges around that?

[00:11:48] There's definitely a few.

[00:11:50] I think, yeah, just based on real-world experience, I think that the challenge is often knowing where to start.

[00:11:59] A lot of the universities and the colleges that I talk to on a daily basis, there's oftentimes there is a recognition that they need to venture into this world, but they maybe lack the tools to get started or pursue the opportunity in a sort of substantive way.

[00:12:18] So whether that's a lack of resources or lack of funding or maybe they're just trying to manage too many projects all at once.

[00:12:26] Another thing that I think, yeah.

[00:12:28] Another thing that I see quite a lot is that university leadership might create a little task force.

[00:12:35] And they'll say to people, you need to get micro-credentials moving.

[00:12:40] We need to do this.

[00:12:42] But then you need to provide a business case for the investment.

[00:12:45] And often the teams, the task force looking into these things, they have no idea what the eventual demand is.

[00:12:54] So there's that kind of tension between, we know we need to do this.

[00:12:59] We know we need to invest money, but we don't know what we're going to get out of it at the end.

[00:13:03] They don't know what the uptake of the learning is going to be.

[00:13:06] I think there's also a challenge in ensuring that these things are delivered to a high quality.

[00:13:12] And, you know, if you're setting up a micro-credential program, well, you need to find the time to support the faculty and the teaching staff to actually deliver the things.

[00:13:21] I think there's still an issue of credibility as well and just general awareness.

[00:13:26] So making sure that micro-credentials are recognized and valued by employers, but also by the learners themselves.

[00:13:34] And you also have a challenge around infrastructure.

[00:13:38] So actually having a platform to be able to deliver these micro-credentials.

[00:13:44] But I don't know, that sounds like a lot of challenges, but these are just the common things that I see on a daily basis.

[00:13:51] But all these challenges have mitigating strategies.

[00:13:56] So I think it's, I would just say that it's important for any university or college,

[00:14:02] if you're looking to implement short courses, that they work with the right technology partner

[00:14:07] who can help guide them through a successful implementation and avoid those types of pitfalls.

[00:14:14] And when looking at directly addressing those challenges and those pitfalls,

[00:14:18] how can universities better market micro-credential offerings to both prospective students and indeed employers,

[00:14:26] especially in this competitive landscape where traditional degrees still hold strong appeal?

[00:14:33] But what are you seeing here? Anything that you would advise around them?

[00:14:38] Yeah, I definitely have some thoughts.

[00:14:41] I think that for learners, you know, if you're putting your marketing hat on,

[00:14:45] I think that marketing the flexibility but also the affordability is key.

[00:14:52] So the time and the cost associated with pursuing a micro-credential,

[00:14:56] it's going to be far less than a four-year degree program, for example.

[00:15:00] So it's just, it's inherently more flexible.

[00:15:03] It's more accessible to a wider range of people.

[00:15:07] So from a marketing point of view, I think it's important to be able to articulate that

[00:15:13] pursuing a micro-credential, it can more easily coincide with existing commitments.

[00:15:18] So whether those are related to your current job or your personal interests or your family life,

[00:15:25] for example.

[00:15:27] I also think that, and some of my partners do this, some of my customers are doing this,

[00:15:32] they use things like alumni testimonials from people that have actually benefited from a micro-credential.

[00:15:39] So, hey, I did a micro-credential with XYZ University.

[00:15:42] I got a badge, and that helped me land a better, more highly paid job.

[00:15:49] I think there's also an opportunity to leverage things like professional networks.

[00:15:54] So, and a quick plug here, but our platform, Brightspace,

[00:15:58] allows learners to share their badges and awards directly to platforms like LinkedIn.

[00:16:04] So learners can, you know, they can publicly display their credentials,

[00:16:08] and that provides validation and recognition of the achievement.

[00:16:13] On the employer side, I think that the most successful companies in the world really do understand that

[00:16:22] if you want to attract and retain the best staff,

[00:16:27] and if you want a high-performance culture,

[00:16:30] you do need to offer education as a benefit

[00:16:33] and really promote that culture of continuous learning.

[00:16:36] I was reading some research yesterday,

[00:16:39] and according to Pew,

[00:16:41] 87% of adults surveyed said they need new skills,

[00:16:45] and I was reading research from Strada Education

[00:16:48] that said 62% of adults surveyed said they preferred non-degree,

[00:16:52] which is highly surprising.

[00:16:55] And I think that does tell a story of the demand for these programs.

[00:17:00] So, yeah, all told,

[00:17:02] I do think that micro-credentials can help with employee engagement and job satisfaction,

[00:17:07] and they can provide workers with the knowledge and the skills

[00:17:11] to allow these people to stay current and ultimately do better work.

[00:17:15] So it's a benefit to everyone.

[00:17:16] It's a win-win.

[00:17:17] And as you said, demand is there,

[00:17:19] and you've already provided some great examples of universities

[00:17:22] that are already successfully exploring these new formats.

[00:17:26] And for anyone listening, as you also highlighted earlier,

[00:17:29] that the problem is where do I start?

[00:17:31] Is there any particular strategies that you'd recommend for balancing innovation

[00:17:35] with that long-standing reputation for high-quality education?

[00:17:39] I would imagine not only is it knowing where to start,

[00:17:42] but it's also getting that balance right too.

[00:17:44] Is that right?

[00:17:45] Yeah, definitely.

[00:17:46] I think the saying, strive for progress, not for perfection.

[00:17:53] I mean, I'm sort of just built this way,

[00:17:57] but I always say to people, just get started.

[00:18:00] You can always iterate as you need to over time.

[00:18:04] If a university or college hasn't started out rolling micro-credentials already,

[00:18:09] then I always just suggest, look, start with a low-stakes pilot program,

[00:18:14] prove the concept before you roll it out more widely.

[00:18:17] Some of my customers are offering things like taster courses,

[00:18:22] which are free to access,

[00:18:24] or they're offering things like non-credit-bearing short courses

[00:18:29] for professional development with just a small cohort of learners.

[00:18:32] And that's just a good way to test the water.

[00:18:37] Although I would say that, look, with any innovation,

[00:18:40] there's a degree of risk.

[00:18:42] But universities and colleges can absolutely manage that risk

[00:18:46] by being very intentional and thoughtful

[00:18:49] in how they pursue their ambitions in this area.

[00:18:54] I mentioned earlier that I would also probably just reiterate

[00:18:57] that, look, high-rejugation institutions,

[00:19:00] they don't need to do this alone.

[00:19:01] They absolutely should identify credible partners

[00:19:06] that have a proven track record

[00:19:08] in assisting other higher education providers

[00:19:11] roll out successful micro-credentialing programs.

[00:19:14] So partners, for example, that can take care of the technology.

[00:19:19] So the usability, the availability, the performance of the tech.

[00:19:23] So they can just focus on the quality of the educational program itself

[00:19:28] without having to worry about the tech.

[00:19:30] I would also say that stakeholder engagement is key.

[00:19:34] So, you know, absolutely do involve faculty,

[00:19:37] involve your teachers in the development

[00:19:39] and the implementation of the new formats.

[00:19:41] Make sure that they're aligned to educational goals.

[00:19:45] I'm a big believer in feedback loops too.

[00:19:49] So I think it's really super important to regularly survey the learners.

[00:19:54] So gather their feedback, act on that feedback,

[00:19:59] because ensuring that you have the right feedback loops in place,

[00:20:03] that's how you create more effective systems over time.

[00:20:06] So you monitor and you adapt.

[00:20:10] The first iteration of a micro-credential program,

[00:20:13] it can and it should be adjusted continuously

[00:20:17] to make sure it is providing that kind of high-quality experience

[00:20:21] you were mentioning.

[00:20:22] I'm sure you've heard the old saying,

[00:20:24] and I don't know who said this originally,

[00:20:26] but, you know, you can't manage what you don't measure.

[00:20:30] So taking a data-informed approach, I think, is crucial.

[00:20:34] Plan, do, check, act.

[00:20:37] And I think that's, in essence, how you balance innovation

[00:20:41] with the obligation to provide high-quality education.

[00:20:45] 100% with you there.

[00:20:46] I always say myself that version one is always better than version none,

[00:20:50] so just get started.

[00:20:52] I think I'm wired up the same as yourselves there.

[00:20:55] And given the decline in international student enrolments

[00:20:58] as well, do you also see micro-credentials

[00:21:02] possibly helping universities better diversify their revenue streams

[00:21:06] while addressing some of these global educational access issues

[00:21:11] that they're facing at the moment?

[00:21:12] Because although in one hand there's a challenge,

[00:21:14] it also feels like there's an opportunity here.

[00:21:17] Definitely.

[00:21:18] Two sides of the same coin, in my opinion.

[00:21:22] I think, yeah, it's definitely no secret

[00:21:25] and, you know, you're spot on.

[00:21:27] Declining international enrolments in UK higher education

[00:21:31] have had an adverse impact.

[00:21:34] I was reading reports recently.

[00:21:37] I think it was Times Higher Education.

[00:21:39] I might be wrong, actually, on that.

[00:21:40] But I was reading reports,

[00:21:41] and around 40% of UK universities are now in deficit,

[00:21:45] which is pretty stark.

[00:21:47] And more than 60 institutions have recently announced severance

[00:21:51] and redundancy programs to cope with financial issues.

[00:21:55] So it's definitely not all rosy in the garden right now.

[00:21:59] But I think that's why it's so important for universities and colleges

[00:22:03] to look at creative ways to bolster their finances

[00:22:06] and become more financially sustainable.

[00:22:08] I was reading a report recently,

[00:22:10] and the global lifelong learning market is,

[00:22:13] it is growing pretty rapidly.

[00:22:16] Last year it was valued at about almost 450 billion US dollars.

[00:22:21] That's projected to reach around 800 billion US dollars by 2030.

[00:22:25] So it's growing at a rapid clip.

[00:22:28] That is a huge potential market to tap into.

[00:22:32] And, you know, despite all the challenges,

[00:22:36] despite all the doom and gloom caused by, well, government policy,

[00:22:41] there's been budget cuts,

[00:22:42] there's been inflation that we all know about,

[00:22:45] student fees were stagnant for years and years.

[00:22:49] UK higher education still has a really excellent reputation,

[00:22:54] and it is the envy of the majority of other countries around the world.

[00:22:58] That gives us a tremendous advantage

[00:23:03] when it comes to our potential to take advantage

[00:23:05] of that lifelong learning market opportunity.

[00:23:09] And again, plug, quick plug here, shamelessly,

[00:23:12] but our platform, Brightspace,

[00:23:14] it allows universities and colleges

[00:23:17] to create online course catalogs

[00:23:20] that can be marketed to learners wherever they are in the world.

[00:23:24] So China, Africa, America, wherever.

[00:23:26] However, learners can find courses from a web search.

[00:23:30] They can browse the available courses.

[00:23:32] They can pay for those courses.

[00:23:34] They can then gain instant access to the learning platform,

[00:23:38] whereby they can then complete their course of study.

[00:23:41] They can be issued a qualification directly upon completion,

[00:23:45] whether it's a badge or a certificate or what have you,

[00:23:48] all in one platform.

[00:23:50] Alternatively, it's just as feasible

[00:23:52] to offer free-to-access courses.

[00:23:56] So I've got customers that are doing just that,

[00:23:59] to show off the quality of their education to a global audience.

[00:24:03] Or they're offering free-to-access courses

[00:24:06] for corporate social responsibility reasons

[00:24:10] or sustainability reasons or things like that.

[00:24:13] So yeah, back to your original question.

[00:24:17] Cut a long story short,

[00:24:18] micro-credentials can definitely help diversify income streams

[00:24:23] and hopefully provide an avenue

[00:24:26] to a more financially sustainable UK higher education market.

[00:24:30] And two other huge trends at the moment

[00:24:32] that are being focused in both education and the workplaces,

[00:24:36] inclusivity and accessibility.

[00:24:39] And there is a lot of improvement needed

[00:24:41] around both of these areas.

[00:24:43] So I'm curious, how do you see short courses

[00:24:46] and micro-credentials making higher education more inclusive,

[00:24:50] maybe more accessible to learners as well

[00:24:53] from a wider variety of backgrounds,

[00:24:55] particularly those that are already in the workforce,

[00:24:58] especially as AI is replacing more traditional roles

[00:25:01] and people are going to need to re-skill, etc.

[00:25:04] Do you see an opportunity here too?

[00:25:06] Yeah, definitely.

[00:25:09] And I've touched on some of this earlier,

[00:25:10] but I think it bears repeating.

[00:25:13] But yeah, traditionally,

[00:25:14] universities and colleges would provide a credential

[00:25:17] in the form of a degree or a diploma.

[00:25:21] But completion of a traditional university degree,

[00:25:25] it takes a significant investment of time and money.

[00:25:31] And that's just not going to be an option

[00:25:33] for many of the people that are going to be,

[00:25:37] they're going to have their lives disrupted

[00:25:38] by things like AI and jobs will be displaced

[00:25:41] and things like that.

[00:25:42] So for many of the people that need

[00:25:45] an additional qualification,

[00:25:47] doing a four-year degree ain't going to happen.

[00:25:51] The demographics of learners have been changing

[00:25:53] for reasons I've mentioned earlier.

[00:25:57] And many of the learners, as you were alluding to,

[00:26:00] they're already in the workforce.

[00:26:02] I think short courses and micro-credentials solve a big problem

[00:26:07] because they offer flexible learning options

[00:26:10] that can be completed in a much shorter time frame.

[00:26:14] And I think it's that flexibility

[00:26:16] that's crucial for working people who need to upskill

[00:26:20] or re-skill without taking extended time off work.

[00:26:24] Then you have the financial angle.

[00:26:28] So if you think about the cost of doing a traditional degree program,

[00:26:32] very expensive.

[00:26:34] Short courses and micro-credentials

[00:26:35] are just going to be much, much more affordable.

[00:26:39] And this is what makes them much more accessible

[00:26:44] and inclusive to a wider range of people.

[00:26:47] And as we prepare for life in 2025,

[00:26:50] looking forward now,

[00:26:51] how do you see the future of learning platforms like D2L,

[00:26:56] especially the role in better supporting universities

[00:26:59] as they transition to offering more flexible,

[00:27:02] scalable education solutions?

[00:27:05] There's a real appetite for it.

[00:27:07] But what do you see your role here?

[00:27:09] Yeah.

[00:27:11] Yeah, I like this question.

[00:27:14] I think, let's talk about Brightspace.

[00:27:17] If I'm talking about the future of these types of platforms,

[00:27:20] I'll talk a little bit about Brightspace.

[00:27:22] But Brightspace, our learning management system,

[00:27:24] was designed to support flexible and scalable education provision

[00:27:29] from the outset.

[00:27:30] And the first version, I don't know if you know this,

[00:27:33] but the first version of Brightspace

[00:27:35] was actually built about 25 years ago

[00:27:38] to support fully online courses

[00:27:40] at the University of Guelph in Canada.

[00:27:42] So our founder, John Baker,

[00:27:45] and you should actually get him on the podcast at some point,

[00:27:48] but our founder, John Baker,

[00:27:49] he had this idea at the time,

[00:27:51] which was to use this relatively new invention

[00:27:55] called the internet

[00:27:56] to allow learners to participate in courses,

[00:28:01] but without having to attend a physical classroom.

[00:28:05] It was quite a radical idea at the time.

[00:28:08] Now, obviously, our platform has evolved a great deal.

[00:28:11] It's not the same as it was 25 years ago,

[00:28:13] and it's scaled to support tens of millions of learners.

[00:28:17] But the basic principles of supporting flexible

[00:28:21] and scalable education have always remained the same.

[00:28:25] But these days, we support everything from blended learning

[00:28:28] to hybrid learning to online learning,

[00:28:30] and we offer incredible flexibility to institutions

[00:28:34] in terms of pedagogy.

[00:28:36] So you can build courses that are around practice-based education,

[00:28:43] competency-based education.

[00:28:44] We support MOOCs and micro-credentials, to name a few.

[00:28:50] Brightspace is also fully mobile responsive,

[00:28:52] so users can access Brightspace on any device,

[00:28:56] at any time, any place of their choosing.

[00:28:59] And if we're talking about flexibility,

[00:29:01] if we're talking about scalability,

[00:29:03] we also support what we would call adaptive learning,

[00:29:07] with a learning path inside of the program,

[00:29:11] and the course content will actually alter

[00:29:14] to cater to individual learning needs.

[00:29:17] So, for example, Brightspace can release content,

[00:29:19] but it can open up new learning pathways

[00:29:22] based on things like quiz scores.

[00:29:24] So you're measuring learner comprehension

[00:29:27] based on their learning inputs,

[00:29:29] and that provides what I would call learner-appropriate education.

[00:29:34] And that's a massive difference to the one-size-fits-all approach

[00:29:38] that you have in more basic platforms or earlier platforms

[00:29:41] where every learner had to essentially consume

[00:29:46] exactly the same content at exactly the same pace,

[00:29:49] irrespective of their comprehension

[00:29:52] and personal learning preferences.

[00:29:55] Yeah, so long story short,

[00:29:57] I think that, well, we'll continue to build

[00:29:59] on our position in the online learning space,

[00:30:01] and we're also, you mentioned AI a couple of times,

[00:30:04] we're investing heavily in AI.

[00:30:06] We actually started incorporating AI

[00:30:08] to our platform about 11, 12 years ago,

[00:30:12] but certainly generative AI is the hot new thing,

[00:30:15] and we're certainly investing heavily in gen AI

[00:30:18] and to help institutions create better courses more efficiently,

[00:30:23] but also provide learners with study support

[00:30:26] and things like that to help them achieve

[00:30:28] sort of optimal learning outcomes.

[00:30:31] So, yeah, the future is definitely bright.

[00:30:35] Well, thank you so much for sitting down with me today

[00:30:37] and shining a light on the role of short courses

[00:30:40] and micro-credentials

[00:30:42] and how they can help make higher education

[00:30:45] more adaptable to the needs of today's workforce.

[00:30:47] So, there's this increasing automation and digitisation

[00:30:50] we've seen across multiple industries.

[00:30:52] But as a thank you,

[00:30:54] I'm going to see if there's something we can do for you now,

[00:30:56] and I'm going to see if we can manifest something together

[00:31:00] because some of the biggest names in business,

[00:31:01] VC funding and tech have either been guests

[00:31:04] or maybe even listened to this podcast out there.

[00:31:07] So, is that a person you'd love to have

[00:31:09] a private breakfast or lunch with?

[00:31:11] Who would it be and why?

[00:31:12] He or she might just get to hear this.

[00:31:14] So, let's see what we can manifest together.

[00:31:18] Yeah, okay.

[00:31:20] Well, I'd have to say that there are many people

[00:31:22] in the business world I'd like to have a private breakfast

[00:31:25] or lunch with.

[00:31:26] Whether they'd want to have a breakfast or lunch with me

[00:31:28] is a different story,

[00:31:29] but I'm going to be a bit greedy here

[00:31:30] and give you two names,

[00:31:31] that I really admire and respect in the business world.

[00:31:36] One is a guy called Frank Slootman.

[00:31:38] I don't know if you've heard of him,

[00:31:40] but he's a Dutchman who built an unbelievable career in the US

[00:31:46] after emigrating from the Netherlands.

[00:31:49] Most notably, he was CEO at both ServiceNow and more recently Snowflake,

[00:31:55] which are two massively successful SaaS technology businesses.

[00:31:59] And he led those organizations through really incredible periods of growth.

[00:32:05] He wrote a really good book called Amp It Up,

[00:32:10] which is all about setting expectations and increasing urgency

[00:32:14] and intensity within the workforce

[00:32:15] and kind of helping people achieve more than they ever dreamed possible.

[00:32:21] If you get the chance to look him up on YouTube

[00:32:22] or listen to one of his interviews

[00:32:24] or try and get him on your podcast,

[00:32:26] he's definitely a very interesting personality.

[00:32:32] The other person I'd love to sit down with is Warren Buffett.

[00:32:35] I guess you've heard of Warren Buffett.

[00:32:37] Yes.

[00:32:37] Yeah.

[00:32:37] So I think he's generally accepted to be probably the most successful investor of all time.

[00:32:43] He's just...

[00:32:44] I've listened to various interviews

[00:32:46] when he's just an incredibly wise man

[00:32:48] and he's built this incredible business in Berkshire Hathaway.

[00:32:53] And when I hear him speak,

[00:32:54] I just like his attitude to business,

[00:32:57] although many of his business principles

[00:32:59] can be equally applied to all facets of one's life.

[00:33:02] Again, look him up on YouTube and listen to his interviews

[00:33:05] or buy his book.

[00:33:07] His book's called The Snowball,

[00:33:10] is the one that I read,

[00:33:11] and it's a really great book.

[00:33:12] So, yeah.

[00:33:14] Frank, Warren, yeah, if you're listening,

[00:33:17] hit me up on LinkedIn.

[00:33:18] Let's do lunch.

[00:33:20] Well, through the powers of manifestation

[00:33:23] and the six degrees of separation,

[00:33:25] we will send that out there into the universe.

[00:33:28] Hopefully somebody connected to either of those people

[00:33:31] will be listening, if not themselves.

[00:33:33] And hopefully we can set something up there.

[00:33:36] And for everyone listening,

[00:33:37] just wanting to carry on this conversation today

[00:33:39] about micro-credentials.

[00:33:41] Maybe you've set off a few light bulb moments with them.

[00:33:44] Where would you like to point them

[00:33:45] to find out more information about D2L?

[00:33:48] Yeah, I would definitely point you to our website,

[00:33:52] D2L.com.

[00:33:53] So all the W's, D2L.com.

[00:33:56] And you can find myself on LinkedIn.

[00:33:57] So that's Robin Telfer.

[00:33:59] We're always happy to connect and have a conversation.

[00:34:04] Awesome.

[00:34:04] Well, I'll get links added to everything

[00:34:06] so people can find you nice and easy.

[00:34:08] And we did cover a lot there

[00:34:09] from the possibility that surround short courses

[00:34:11] of micro-credentials in paving the way

[00:34:14] for further collaboration among the education,

[00:34:17] government and industry there.

[00:34:19] And also some practical strategies for universities

[00:34:22] is to take away and develop

[00:34:24] and market these offerings effectively.

[00:34:26] Just get started

[00:34:27] and navigate some of those important considerations too

[00:34:31] that they may take

[00:34:33] before integrating new course formats

[00:34:35] and maintaining those educational standards.

[00:34:38] So many big talking points.

[00:34:39] I'd love people listening to contact either yourself or me.

[00:34:42] And we'll keep this conversation going.

[00:34:44] But thank you for sharing it today.

[00:34:46] Thank you, Neil.

[00:34:47] I appreciate it.

[00:34:48] Cheers.

[00:34:48] I think as Rob highlighted today,

[00:34:51] micro-credentials and short courses

[00:34:53] are more than just a trend.

[00:34:55] They're becoming a critical tool

[00:34:57] for institutions looking to remain competitive

[00:35:00] in a world where the workforce

[00:35:01] is continuously learning and evolving.

[00:35:04] Whether it be enabling flexible upskilling

[00:35:07] or fostering partnerships

[00:35:08] across education, government and industry.

[00:35:12] I think these innovations we're talking about today

[00:35:15] offer exciting opportunities

[00:35:17] both for learners and educators

[00:35:19] and indeed employers.

[00:35:21] But what is your take on the potential

[00:35:23] of micro-credentials in transforming education?

[00:35:27] Have you experienced their benefit

[00:35:29] or challenges firsthand?

[00:35:30] You've heard from me.

[00:35:31] You've heard from my guests.

[00:35:32] I'd love to hear your firsthand experiences.

[00:35:34] So please join the conversation.

[00:35:36] Share your insights.

[00:35:38] Let me know your thoughts on this

[00:35:39] by connecting with me on LinkedIn

[00:35:41] at neilchughes

[00:35:42] or emailing me techblogwriteratoutlook.com.

[00:35:46] But that's it.

[00:35:47] We're out of time today.

[00:35:48] I'll explore another industry tomorrow

[00:35:51] and learn more about how technology

[00:35:52] is impacting that area.

[00:35:55] It's time for me to get out of here now

[00:35:57] and prepare for tomorrow's interview.

[00:35:59] So I'm going to do my little research now

[00:36:02] and return again tomorrow.

[00:36:03] Hopefully, I will speak with you all then.

[00:36:05] Bye for now.

[00:36:06] Bye for now.