3155: How AEG is Redefining Recruitment in IT and Engineering

[00:00:03] What does it take to redefine company growth in a way that prioritises honesty, genuine connections and long-term success? Well, in an age where competition for specialised IT and engineering talent is fiercer than ever, I want to explore today how organisations can truly set themselves apart, especially in recruitment and workforce development in particular, is so important right now.

[00:00:30] And I've got not one, but two guests joining me today. And they're from a company called AEG. Now, AEG has tripled in size since 2019 thanks to its leadership focus on authentic relationships and a consultative approach to staffing. So my guests today, Eric and Chris, are going to be sharing their insights on the unique challenges of recruiting and retaining high-demand technical skills,

[00:00:56] trends shaping the tech sector's recruitment strategies, and what does it take for start-ups and growth companies to thrive in a competitive talent market? Whether it be balancing cutting-edge technology with a human touch or fostering a company culture that aligns with employee values, my guests are going to bring valuable perspectives today on the future of recruitment and much more.

[00:01:21] So how can organisations not just attract, but retain their top talent in an ever-changing job market? Let's find out and get today's guests on. Well, thanks for joining me on the podcast, guys. Chris, to begin with, can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? Thanks, Neil. I'm sure you and your listeners have heard some of the negative connotations and narratives around the staffing companies. That truly is what brought me here today. As you mentioned, my name is Chris Rakel.

[00:01:50] I've been in the business for almost two decades and the majority shareholder of AEG since 2019. Over the past five years, I've had the privilege of leading the company through a period of incredible growth, nearly tripling its size and redefining what success looks like in our industry. I'm not here just talking numbers, though. I'm here to change the narrative of the staffing industry. For too long, staffing has been misunderstood as transactional.

[00:02:16] There have been way too many bad actors, and there really was a point in time where I was somewhat embarrassed to tell people what I did. The reality is, staffing is the backbone of innovation, opportunity, and progress for businesses in town a lot. My mission is to elevate the conversation, focusing on long-term value and impactful relationships. So today, I'm excited to share what I've learned on the journey, what's working, what's broken,

[00:02:43] how we can build a future that transforms not just businesses, but lives. And I'm looking forward to digging a little bit deeper on everything that you mentioned there. But of course, you're not here on your own. You brought Eric with you. So, Eric, can you tell everyone this thing a little about you too? Yes, Neil. Really again, appreciate you having us on the podcast. Excited to talk about AEG and all things staffing. You know, my background, like Chris, is almost 20 years.

[00:03:10] A little bit more unique is, as I say, that I've got to work at some of the largest staffing companies in the world, and then also more your local boutique firm. So I just have a unique perspective of just how various different companies do it. They've all done it different. And I think I've been able to learn from some great leaders, great teammates throughout the years, and bring that perspective to AEG. And I think where Chris and I have been so successful together is we think the same on it.

[00:03:37] It's about relationships, and not just transactional relationships, genuine relationships with both our clients, our customers, and then making sure our internal staff feels valued. And it's okay to make mistakes and learn as we kind of go through this. But at the end of the day, we want to have genuine connections with the people we're meeting and help them find success, whatever that looks like to them. So I've been here a little over three years.

[00:04:04] The managing director, I manage the team, and my main job every day is to create a culture of trust and collaboration and growth. Well, big thank you for joining me on the podcast as well, Eric. And I'd love to jump straight into a few of the things that you've both mentioned here. And Chris, to begin with, you talked about the challenges around staffing. So what are some of the unique challenges that you've seen companies face,

[00:04:31] especially in all those conversations that you're having when they're trying to recruit and retain specialized IT and engineering talent in today's increasingly competitive market, especially around tech talent? Yeah. So, I mean, we're here in the States. We're in St. Louis. And this is not unique to us. It's a global problem. But especially in the United States, I mean, first and foremost, we have low unemployment. And we have a global competition for the workforce these days.

[00:05:01] A lot of organizations have antiquated recruiting practices. You know, waiting for people to apply simply does not work in today's world. You may get lucky here and there, but we really need to be hunters, not trappers. And employees today are not just looking for a job. They want to know what they're going to be part of, how it's going to impact their or others' lives and what the future may hold.

[00:05:28] Talented people only want to entertain opportunities that align with their goals and belief systems. The intangibles to them are just as important as the pay. So, it's hard to get all of that message out in a job posting. It's hard to get all of that message out on your website. You know, the world of work has changed. The times of working for a local business or searching online or those old enough to remember the paper, it's gone.

[00:05:57] Technology has been taking us in that direction for some time, and COVID really just amplified everything. And I'm glad you mentioned COVID there because the world has changed so much in the last five years. First, there was the global pandemic taking us on a journey to remote working at scale. Then that followed by hybrid working. And the last two years have been all about AI. So, Eric, I've got to ask, how have you seen the tech sector evolve in terms of recruitment trends?

[00:06:26] And are there any key shifts that you're observing in how companies attempt to attract talent now? Because employees also have a whole new set of expectations from potential employers, right? No, you both just touched on it. I think COVID, I mean, I remember I tell our team, you know, pre-COVID, you know, we had our eyes on every candidate in the office. We handed off every interview in person. It was much more regionalized operation.

[00:06:55] And it was so much more on those personal relationships that you created through meeting and in-person and understanding. Where now it's, you know, as Chris mentioned, it's a global fight for talent and companies allowing people to work from home. You've had to change. And so when you're on these calls and talking to people, it's much more about the why at the company. And it's much more direct of the value that you can add as a staffing firm and what you're doing to attract talent.

[00:07:24] So you've had to change. And I think, you know, understanding what companies are offering, what the person is doing in the job and understanding what the candidates are looking for are some of the core areas that we really focus on to understand the needs. And then as you both touched on automation and AI are, you know, they're increasing.

[00:07:47] And every day you're getting inundated with new tools and trying to understand what those tools can do to help the process, but also making sure you're keeping the authenticity of the relationship and making sure you're still truly understanding what the company and the candidates are looking for. And of course, we're not just talking about large enterprises here.

[00:08:12] So on behalf of any startup founders that could be listening to our conversation today, Chris, any strategies that you think startups and companies that are going through somewhat of a growth mode, what should they be doing to or what should they be adopting to effectively compete for high demand technical skills? Because it's quite an uphill struggle, especially when large enterprises are coming in and swooping some of that best talent. Oh, absolutely.

[00:08:36] I mean, it's unique and it's a challenge that every company hopefully will experience. I mean, obviously every company was a startup at some point in time and everybody wants to grow. That is the purpose of being in business. So when you're in hyper growth mode or a startup status, the biggest problem always and forever will be cash flow. You know, labor is typically your largest cost. And unfortunately, it's just not something you can ever cut a corner with.

[00:09:07] Just keep in mind that the old saying, you give what you pay for. It exists for a reason. So from an advice standpoint, what I would share with people is, unfortunately, take the budget you have in mind and have 20%. I mean, that sounds crazy. It sounds really simple, but the market is tighter than you think. And believe it or not, there is risk for an employee who's been joining an organization that's in one of those statuses.

[00:09:33] Another piece of advice I would share is hire specialty skills and really train the mundane. Too often I've seen companies try to go inexpensive and they'll hire a generalist in hopes of upskilling them to really complete what it is they need. And my advice would be do the exact opposite. Hire someone overqualified.

[00:09:57] If they believe in the company, if they believe in the mission, the product, they will be more than happy to wear multiple hats. Contract to hire, in my opinion, is the responsible way to hire. As an employer, you get a proof of concept before you commit. It's really easy to hire and or fire if need be. Benefits don't become an issue.

[00:10:20] A lot of organizations in startup mode can not offer the robust benefits that are required and or needed in today's workforce. And the idea of a fractional employee is another strategy that I would include. And for those that don't understand, take someone very uniquely qualified and maybe you cannot afford them on a full-time basis. But look to add them maybe 20 hours a week or 30 hours a month, whatever works for your system.

[00:10:50] And we're uncovering a lot of risks, challenges and equally opportunities today. So I think it's a good opportunity to introduce people listening to AEG. So Eric, can you tell me a little bit more about AEG's approach to workforce development and this emphasis on honesty and genuine connections? Because I think it's so important in this age of AI that we keep talking about. Why is it you think this approach resonates so much in today's market? Is it because of that or is it something else?

[00:11:20] Well, you know, as we've touched on a few different times, the relationship piece. And so many times, you know, staffing companies will say, you know, we're really focused on relationships. But then they hold their internal staff to, you know, huge metrics. So they're focused on, you know, how many calls they made in a day. We're, listen, activity is always a key, you know, key factor.

[00:11:43] But at the end of the day, we stress to our internal team to take time to understand what our candidates are looking for. We want them to really just be a true consultative approach. And we're more worried about genuine calls, you know, really understanding quality candidates than if they made 30 or 25 phone calls in a day. So I think it starts with our internal model and how we train our team on quality over quantity. It is the first area that I would say.

[00:12:12] And then we celebrate. This is a hard job. It's you're dealing with people. It changes. You're not really sure what you're going to get. You could do all the right things and candidates could have other ideas or change their mind. And so we celebrate a lot. We celebrate just the little things. And we focus on coming in each day, regardless of what's happened the day before and trying to make it the best day possible. And I think that culture really, you know, creates a team atmosphere where we help each other.

[00:12:42] We learn from each other. And then you take that approach. And I think it just, it comes across genuine when we're working with candidates. And I think they're more excited to work with us. And I'm so glad you've mentioned culture there. Because in my former IT life, I saw so many tech projects fail or struggle, not because of the technology, but because management had forgot to think about change within the organization and culture within an organization, how they were going to adopt this new tech.

[00:13:10] And, of course, as employees, we expect this as well. And we've seen the costs of a bad hire and what that can do to harm the culture within an organization. So, I'm curious, from your side, Eric, what role do you see company culture playing in not only attracting, but also retaining specialized talent, particularly in IT and engineering and those tech fields we're talking about? I think it's huge. I think companies need to listen to their employees. And, you know, every company is a little bit different,

[00:13:39] but they have to understand what works for their company and the type of person they want. And I think once they understand that and they just need to effectively communicate that to their employees, so there's clear expectations. I think one of the biggest mistakes companies make is that, you know, they say all the buzzwords, but they don't implement them. And I think if you really create an open line of communications and create clear expectations of what your employees are going to get,

[00:14:06] and you have managers follow through on that, I think you're going to do a great job of retaining talent. I think if you have managers that aren't following through with your company culture or what you're preaching, I think you're going to experience turnover. Because, you know, as we've talked about a few different times five years ago, most companies were competing regionally for talent. You're competing nationally. And companies, I think, over the last two years are really evaluating, you know,

[00:14:35] how they want to set up their environment. Is it fully remote? Is it hybrid? Is it in person? And just other ancillary benefits that come along with those expectations, I think is something that's really important to employees and future candidates. And, you know, Neil, I'll jump in on this as well, because one of the things that we stress here at AEG is really being authentic. And it's something that really starts at the top. We share with every single candidate this piece of advice,

[00:15:03] and it's just be yourself in this conversation, in the interview. Reason being, if you try to pretend to be somebody that you think they want to hire, that may get you the job, but it won't create the satisfaction that you want. So you really need to be yourself, be authentic, and be true to your personal beliefs, your personal credence. And let that, the match will happen from there.

[00:15:31] And when it comes to buzzwords, and I think AI springs to mind for obvious reasons, it seems that every enterprise right now is rushing to be a part of that AI narrative. And after the pandemic, we saw a huge increase in hiring, and then we've seen big tech layoffs increase because they overhired during that period. So how can organizations balance the pressure to scale quickly when needed with the need to also prioritize long-term workforce development,

[00:15:59] employee satisfaction, and all that stuff? It feels like quite a delicate balancing act. It definitely is. And for me, I think, as we've gone through this recently, it really starts with transparency. You have to let your employees know where you are currently and where you want to go. The more that you share your vision, the easier it is for everyone to buy in. So make sure the team not only knows the challenges ahead, but the opportunities that can be created.

[00:16:29] Make sure they want to grow with you, and that they know that they can create their own path along the way. You know, Eric mentioned earlier, you have to celebrate those short-term and long-term wins. So you acknowledge those that help and impress upon them that we couldn't be where we are without their contributions. You know, again, going back to the state true to your culture and create opportunities to hear everyone's concerns and or suggestions.

[00:16:57] Caveat to that is you better be prepared to act or respond when they do voice those concerns. And another thing, again, with AI. AI is a wonderful tool, but it's here to empower us and to help automate processes not to replace. So I look for tools that can provide the opportunity to streamline processes, not replace people. Such an important point.

[00:17:24] And I think added to that with economic uncertainty on my side of the pond here in the UK and in the US where you guys are, and indeed beyond where everybody listening. I think it's so important to highlight that as well. So what advice would you give to companies that may be looking to improve their existing talent pipeline in specialized sectors, especially those struggling with limited resources right now? Any advice or valuable takeaways you'd offer to those people listening? Yeah, that's a great question.

[00:17:54] I think the easy answer is really just to ask for help. You know, if you've created that culture, you believe in the mission and the organization does as well, your employees should be your biggest cheerleaders. Make sure you have an adequate referral program. But trust me, people like to help people. They will do that more so for the opportunity to enrich somebody else's life more than they will that referral fee.

[00:18:22] So your employees are your biggest resource. And if they enjoy the work, they would believe or should believe that others would as well. Outside of your organization, I mean, you really, there's too many organizations out there in the staffing world that say they can do everything and they try to do everything. But I would tell you, look, really look for and lean on specialty organizations. And an example of that is we here at AEG,

[00:18:51] we're one of the very, very few staffing firms deeply rooted in the nuclear sector. We understand it. We're good at it. Not everybody can. From there, you know, I would have similar answers to what I share with organizations in growth or startup mode. I mean, if you have limited resources, look for the contract to hire. It's less of a commitment. Focus on the specialty skills and ask people in the organization to wear many hats. And if they understand where we're going,

[00:19:20] they will have no problem doing so. Fractional employees, once again, that's another option for those with limited resources. And we're recording this conversation today in January 2025. It's that magical time here where we're all thinking or planning for the future, how we're going to do things differently. So Eric, how do you see the recruitment and workforce development scene evolving throughout the next few years, especially as the tech sector continues to evolve?

[00:19:49] And what role do you see technology playing in shaping some of these changes? It feels like there's a lot up for grabs at the moment. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, you're going to have all kinds of different ways that it's going to change, you know, between automation and AI. I think it, the real question is going to be how different companies want to use it. Are companies going to want to just take a non-personalized approach? And there are tools out there that can automate finding resumes and submit, you know, candidates,

[00:20:19] but there's no real relationship or understanding the why. Or are companies going to really dive in and help use the technology to find candidates, you know, have it working for them and still get, you know, an internal person. They're screening those individuals. So I think we're going to see it, be able to touch all the things that, that people are doing right now. And I think the biggest question companies are going to ask to ask themselves is how do they want

[00:20:45] their message out to their perspective employees to be? Is it going to be more of an automated, you know, conversation that, that happens right now? I mean, there are tools out there that, you know, AI reaches out to a candidate, interviews them before they even talk to someone in their organization, or is it going to be more of a consultative relationship, you know, human interaction that really talks about the company culture, the values, the why, you know, they want to work there and why they should want to work there.

[00:21:15] Cause, you know, as you guys are talking, one of the things that just really came to mind is I have, I meet with clients every day and pretty much every single one of them will say, we have a great company culture. And what a lot of them fail to do though, is explain why their company culture, you know, they'll say the buzzwords like benefits, but you know, benefits are different to everybody.

[00:21:37] I think truly understanding who you're attracting as talent and what benefits and what company culture means to them is really important to have a strong culture and a strong team. Yeah. Yeah. I would, I would add to, I think we are on the precipice of, of some major changes in, in the world of work. And those that I, I believe those that are going to be successful are really going to be able to mirror or, or marry, I should say,

[00:22:09] technology and culture. There has to be a personal touch. If you treat your employees like a commodity, you won't have employees for long. You may be able to get a few projects done here and there, but people will leave for a dollar. They will leave for greener pastures. It's the ability to marry that technology to bring the automation, to bring people in or the AI to bring people in the door, but that culture to keep them.

[00:22:38] I think those are the people. And those are the organizations that are going to continue to have success. And I think that's a perfect moment to end on. Thanks so much for sharing your insights today. But before I let you go, I want to find out a little bit more about your own personal stories and focus on the human connection that we've talked about today, because it is so important. So to begin with, Chris, none of us are able to achieve any degree of success without a little help along the way.

[00:23:05] And there's usually someone that's seen something and has invested a little time in us. So is there a particular person that maybe you're grateful towards who's helped you get you where you are today, that we could maybe give a little shout out to today? Yeah, I think that's a great question and one that I reflect on quite often. And, and, you know, to be honest, I don't know if there's just one person that I could single out. I truly believe that every interaction, whether positive or not,

[00:23:34] has played a part in my success. I believe I draw strength from all the people that have supported me. I look for motivation from those that have doubted me and resolve from those that have challenged me. All are critical to success. To me, success really isn't an accident. It's a result of focus, strategy, knowing how to leverage every situation. I believe I had the foresight and to recognize and seize opportunities,

[00:24:05] the resilience to turn my challenges into stepping stones. And the most important thing is I've learned how to pick myself up after making mistakes. And there have been plenty of mistakes. I haven't just learned from my experiences. I've learned how to capitalize on them. So short answer is, I don't know that there's any one person, but every person that I've ever interacted with has played a part in my success. Wow. That's such an amazing point to make a powerful answer. And there's also,

[00:24:35] there's a real pressure on, I think everyone, both myself and for yourselves and everybody listening to be in this state of continuous learning, especially with the speed of technological change, continuously ramping up. And there's also that fear that maybe it's never going to move this slow again. So Eric, as someone that is leading the way in this space, where or how do you self-educate? Any tips or advice you can share there? Well, I love your saying always a student, sometimes a teacher, never an expert. I thought that was really good.

[00:25:03] And I would just say in general, I think I'm just naturally curious. I love to ask questions. I love to surround myself with people I respect, other leaders in the industry and then leaders outside industry. I continually meet with them, ask them how they're dealing with problems, what they're dealing with, how they're working through those issues, how they're leading people, and understand what they're going through and how they're learning from those situations. And, you know, how I can apply that to my own self and how I can be a better leader,

[00:25:33] a better communicator, you know, asking them, you know, what type of tools they're using, just anything and everything. When I meet someone, I really try to learn something from them. I mean, there's so many intelligent people out there and the more that I can meet and the more I can learn from, I think the better overall person I'm going to be. And I really try to take that approach in all aspects of life, whether it's professional or personal as when I meet someone in different situations,

[00:26:03] just trying to take something away from that conversation that, you know, I can learn from. Fantastic advice. And thank you again for joining me on the podcast. And for anyone listening, hearing about AEG for the first time, maybe they want to start a conversation with either yourself, Eric or Chris, where would you like to point everyone listening? On our website, AEG-inc.com is where you can find more information about the company. Chris and I are both on LinkedIn, Eric Ormson and Chris Raichel. And then we also, you know,

[00:26:32] are continually posting on LinkedIn on our company page at AEG. Well, I think it's such an important topic right now. So thanks again for sharing your perspective on the unique challenges of recruiting and nurturing talent, shining a light on some of those unique challenges of recruiting and retaining specialized IT and engineering talent. And also some of the strategies for startups and companies in growth mode to compete effectively for high demand technical skills. And not only that,

[00:27:01] what I've particularly enjoyed is hearing more about some of those trends that you're seeing in recruitment from all those conversations that you're having with clients around the world and the impact that you're seeing it having. I'd love to hear the thoughts from the people listening, business leaders listening and startup founders to hear their perspectives. But thank you for starting this conversation today. You know, thanks for having us. Really appreciate the conversation. Yes, thank you, Neil. Really appreciate it. Nice to meet you and look forward to hearing it. So as we wrap up today's conversation

[00:27:30] with Eric and Chris from AEG, I think it's clear that the key to a successful recruitment strategy lies in so much more than just filling positions. Whether it be focusing on honesty, authenticity and quality over quantity, organizations can create a meaningful impact that extends beyond the hiring process. And that can be from adapting to the demands of a remote or hybrid workforce to blending technology with a personal touch.

[00:27:59] Big thank you to Eric and Chris for providing actionable strategies for thriving in today's competitive tech world. But over to you, what stood out to you most in today's discussion? Are you seeing similar trends in your industry? Do you have a unique perspective that you would like to share? I'd love to hear your thoughts. So don't forget, check out AEG's work. And if you're looking to learn more, and if you want to carry on the conversation, email me, techblogrideroutlook.com, LinkedIn, X,

[00:28:29] Instagram, at Neil C. Hughes, easiest guy in the world to find. And I am going to a lot of tech conferences throughout January and February. So if you'd like to meet me in person, maybe we can grab a hot coffee or a cold beer as well. But that's it for today. Time for me to get out of here now. I will speak with you all again tomorrow, but bye for now. Thank you. Bye. Thank you.