3167: The Future of PR, AI, and Remote Work: Lessons from Bospar's 10-Year Journey

[00:00:03] Today we're marking a milestone with Bospar, and they're a trailblazing PR agency celebrating its 10th anniversary. And joining me today are Curtis and Carol, two of the key minds behind Bospar's success. And together we're going to discuss how they've built a thriving remote-first PR firm, and their innovative use of AI in communications, and why PR is a career that more people should know about, even kids.

[00:00:31] And Bospar has been ahead of the curve when it comes to embracing remote work, long before it became a norm. And their approach has proven just as productive, if not more so than traditional office setups. But it has also had a profound impact on workplace diversity, sustainability and inclusivity. And they've shown that by eliminating commutes and office barriers, they've been able to create better opportunities for women, individuals with disabilities,

[00:01:00] and professionals outside of major tech hubs. But most importantly, this is a tech podcast. They haven't stopped innovating either. They've recently launched Pushy, which is an AI-powered PR assistant that's designed to streamline media relations and ensure that journalists and their clients get the right information and when they need it.

[00:01:22] And one of the reasons I love talking about this stuff is we often talk about AI, but I'm intrigued by the real-world impacts that that AI is having inside workplaces, inside different industries. So what does the future of PR, tech PR look like in a world of AR, remote work and evolving media landscapes? Let's find out now by getting both Carol and Curtis onto the podcast.

[00:01:49] So a massive warm welcome to the show. We've got not one, but two guests today. First of all, Carol, we've been working together for, must be nearly 10 years now, but can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? Yes, absolutely. Thanks for having me, first of all, Neil. It's definitely an honour. We've worked together for so many years. So excited to finally be actually appearing on your show.

[00:02:14] I'm Carol Barrow. I'm a vice president of public relations and content at BOSPAR, a remote-first tech PR agency. I have many years in public relations and media experience, and I am a former journalist. So I'm always passionate about telling meaningful stories, and tech is just such a rich treasure trove of stories. So that's what it's all about.

[00:02:41] And it's great to have you on the podcast as a guest. And Curtis, you're joining Carol today. This is an audio podcast, so people are not going to be able to see this, but you've got an impressive trophy cabinet behind. So can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do too? So I am the co-founder of BOSPAR and one of the principles. And just to brag about myself and show this lovely wall that you can't see,

[00:03:06] but you can imagine, if you will, a business insider named me one of the top 50 in tech PR twice. So that's how low the bar is. There is an Emmy, because of course there is. And there are a variety of awards that our team has done for PR and communications. And all these awards are based on the business results that our PR strategies yield for our clients. Absolutely love it.

[00:03:32] And I think very often we only celebrate the success and those trophies and those achievements, but we don't automatically think about the wrong climb up to that success. And that's where the learning's done. That's where all the cool stuff happens. And one of the reasons I invite you both to join me today is BOSPAR is celebrating its 10th year anniversary, which is an incredible milestone. So I've got to ask, and maybe Curtis, you can answer this as being there from the very beginning.

[00:03:59] What have been the biggest lessons that you've learned as a tech PR agency over the past decade? And how have these shaped BOSPAR's success, would you say? I would say the biggest lesson has been not to take no for an answer. And that's where our whole politely pushy ethos comes from. When we are pitching media stories, I'll several times get a journalist saying, no, no, no, I will have to come back with a new angle or a new way to approach it.

[00:04:29] I obviously don't want to get blocked, but I've got to think about this in a way that's creative. And I originally thought about this when I was tasked with getting the first orbital payment in space secured. And I'd have to talk to this astronaut's wife. And each time I went to her, I had to go with a new approach so it wasn't obnoxious or irritating.

[00:04:53] And I found that was useful also in my media relations and also in business. And so I think about different ways to approach a problem because I know that a no generally is another way of saying, not now, but maybe someday. Carol, I would imagine you've seen a similar number of changes throughout your career.

[00:05:17] And in the times that we've been working together, we've seen everything from crypto to working at home from scale, hybrid working, and the last three years has been all about AI. But what lessons have you learned and what have you seen? Yeah, well, one of the biggest lessons that I think we've all learned is the power of inclusivity that really comes from remote work.

[00:05:41] At BOSPAR in particular, we're really pride ourselves on diverse voices and just really bringing in diverse perspectives. And I think including our work with San Francisco Pride, which has been especially inspiring, it just reminds us to lift up marginalized communities. And one of the great parts about remote work is that you're able to reach those talented individuals

[00:06:07] that you might not otherwise be able to reach or recruit because of their background or where they may be located. And you're able to bring in that kind of diverse talent. So I think that's a huge benefit. Yeah, completely agree. And we're talking about working from home. And five years ago, working from home was almost seen as a nice to have a select few people. Now we're looking at distributed teams all around the world.

[00:06:33] And many people are recruited, onboarded, and worked with people that they've never actually met in person. And with this fresh data on impact of remote work, I'm curious, what are some of the most surprising or even eye-opening stats that you've discovered, particularly about the effects and impacts on productivity and sustainability? What have you seen here? So I wasn't surprised, but I was validated.

[00:06:59] And that validation came from people talking about how productive they were while working from home. And I have felt that in my experience, when I was at an office, someone would be right next to me, and they would be loudly chewing their food. And every mastication would ruin a good thought I would have. Then someone would come up and gossip next to me. And then there was always a typhoid Mary or typhoid Marvin who was getting everyone sick.

[00:07:27] And so I was not surprised at all that people felt more productive. In fact, our research mirrors in large part the research that the Federal Reserve has actually performed. And the San Francisco Federal Reserve branch discovered that people were just as productive, whether they were working in office or working at home. And so the benefits, though, outweigh any sort of imaginary drawback, such as a better work-life balance, no commuting.

[00:07:58] And most importantly, I think for our species survival, just that, the fact that it cuts a person's carbon footprint by more than half if you do it five days a week. Carol, I'm curious because you've seen some of the impacts directly from this as well. Anything that stands out for you? And maybe give people listening a little background on the research too, for anyone that's not seen this. Yeah, definitely. The research bears out our personal experiences quite strongly.

[00:08:26] And I'm especially grateful for our remote-first culture and approach because in my personal life, I'm recovering from a much-needed orthopedic surgery. Nothing too glamorous about that. But just being able to work from home, it's been key to my productivity and healing. So not needing to get on our BART train or our local subway and commute has really allowed me to focus on my recovery while still leading campaigns and supporting my team.

[00:08:56] So that's from kind of the micro level. On a macro level, the statistics are just very strong in proving that productivity levels are the same, if not higher, for those who work at home. And one surprising stat is that merely 88% of respondents in our survey have established dedicated home workspaces.

[00:09:19] So that just shows how seriously we take our remote workspaces and how we really kind of go into that work mode and productivity mode even while we're at home. And as Curtis said a few moments ago there, cutting a person's carbon footprint by over 50% is an incredible achievement. And also 88% of people have now got that dedicated home working space. They're not working in the kitchen table anymore, which is also great to hear.

[00:09:48] But I'm curious, what role do you think remote work will play, Carol, in maybe helping businesses meet sustainability goals in the future? Because this is rising in importance too now, especially with things like ESG scores, etc. What do you see here, Carol? How do you see this carrying on? Well, it's exactly what you said. It really will help to reduce that carbon footprint. And when you're doing that, that has such a ripple effect.

[00:10:14] And with the way that we're seeing the long predicted effects of climate change, any step that we can take or in this case not take that will benefit our environment is huge. And so I think we really cannot underestimate the value and the impact of remote work on both productivity, but on the flip side, sustainability.

[00:10:37] So we think that these findings of our survey highlight how remote work just helps businesses meet those sustainability goals that are so elusive. And yeah, I think businesses that are considering doing it, go ahead, at least do a trial run and mark those environmental impacts and take it from there. I think you'll be won over and we'd love to recruit you to our way of thinking. Awesome.

[00:11:03] Kurt, is there anything you'd like to add on that, on how you see this evolving and what the future means there? Oh, no. The future is a little dark. And I think that each time that there is an environmental issue or apocalypse, people are going to reevaluate the work-from-home situation. I also think that as the economy improves, more and more workers will be able to demand work from home.

[00:11:30] And so I think the kind of draconian overreach on return to office is going to be thwarted by that as well. And so really, I know we seem to be in a tug-of-war about work from home, but I predict that most knowledge workers will be working from home in the next 10 to 20 years. And something else I think we should mention here is remote workers are also shown to support gender wage and workplace equality

[00:11:59] and something that we should shine a light on today. And, Carol, I know this is a subject you're very passionate about. So can you tell me about how this model empowers women and ultimately helps bridge that gap in the tech industry? Because we keep talking about diversity of thought in tech and bridging that skills gap in tech, getting more people into the industry as other industries begin to slow down. How are you seeing things shaping here? Well, I think it's great that you're saying the diversity and thought kind of concept,

[00:12:29] which is one that has always rubbed me the wrong way, because I feel like that's often a cop-out to say, well, we may not have actual diversity to show, but we have people thinking different thoughts. I think that what we've found with remote work is that it removes many of the structural barriers that women especially face, like commuting constraints or having to balance commuting with a high cost of childcare.

[00:12:56] For example, I've seen firsthand how flexible women enables women, especially in tech PR and tech in general, to continue moving forward in their careers without sacrificing family commitments, whether it's caring for children or caring for elders. This is just a really important issue that I think often gets lost in the shuffle. I was just reading a statistic recently in Slack's Future Forum

[00:13:23] that found that 97% of Black American women respondents prefer to remote or hybrid setup. And this model just basically levels the playing field. So we think it's key not only to us thriving on an environmental level, but allowing underrepresented groups to thrive as well. So that's kind of baked into the Bose Farm model. Note to self, never mentioned diversity of thought to Carol.

[00:13:52] I don't want to rub you up the wrong way there, but Curtis, when it comes to workplace equality and remote work, what does that mean to you and what difference have you seen there? I think that when it comes to this sort of important space, getting a diversity of geographies represented is critical. And I think that a lot of people who traditionally would not be able to access tech

[00:14:19] because they may not live in a coastal city are now able to do that. And so that's one of the things that has really been impactful to me, is bringing in people who otherwise would not be able to have a seat at the table. And I want to bring up another thing that is very important to me. Recently, this young man, Kyle, wrote a whole essay in Business Insider about how his cerebral palsy prevented him from working in an office.

[00:14:49] And he said, for me, working from home is not a nice-to-have, it's a necessity. And that really struck a chord with everyone here at Bose Bar because we pride ourselves on being a role model for work from home. And so we reached out to Kyle. We found that there was a great synergy between the two, and we were able to bring him on. And so when I think about the broader idea about the future of work

[00:15:12] and making sure that everyone has access regardless of their health or their location, I think that the work-from-home model is superior. And for companies that would be employing a company such as mine, hire us. I would like to point out that you get that diversity of thought that is also not siloed in any one city. I find, for example, that a lot of PR campaigns that are siloed in New York

[00:15:38] tend to have that New York bias that really kind of turns everyone off. We don't need to do something in Central Park, for example. That does not resonate to anyone else but New Yorkers. And so I think having that level of thought prevents those crazy PR ideas that really are kind of tone deaf. I hope we've not just ignited an East Side, West Side gang warfare in the PR world there. I mean, I love the East Side. I love New York. But you have to have balance.

[00:16:07] And you have to have balance from every part of the market that you're trying to hit. And so I feel that when you look at a lot of the PR awards, for example, they definitely hit New York companies. And you've got to think, are there's only good PR being done in New York? And no, it's just kind of a geographic issue. Similarly, when it comes to the diversity of thought that Carol's talking about, we want to broaden our aperture.

[00:16:37] And as we look to the future, I mean, you guys are incredibly fortunate, I think, like myself. You get to speak with so many different clients and customers in every corner of the world about how technology is changing their life, their work, or even world in many cases. So what trends or innovations are you seeing shaping the next phase of remote work? And how are you at BoSPA preparing for some of these changes?

[00:17:02] Because we've seen some bad things over the last few years, the rise of workplace surveillance. There's a whole other podcast episode right there. But what else are you seeing there, Curtis? If you were to make that question super challenging, you would have then said, and don't mention AI. Because naturally, we're leaning way strong into AI. In fact, we were the first agency to debut our own AI outside face.

[00:17:26] So if anyone had a PR question, they could come to Pushy 24-7 and get PR counsel on any sort of question like, what do I do if my competition has just released a similar product? And so that sort of thinking about how we could use AI to free us up to do the more creative and more impactful work is definitely something that we're looking at every day, every hour. Oh, I love that. So pushy.

[00:17:55] Is that like your own version of a custom GPT kind of thing? Tell me about that. Yeah, yeah. So you can see the Pushy logo on my shirt. And for our audience who can't see anything, imagine a very, very cute little smiley face with a bit of a flame red hair. And that's Pushy. And he is our AI PR assistant. And we launched that in 2024. And we secured a lot of exciting coverage about it from people from TechCrunch, for example,

[00:18:24] who said that there's never been a time when a PR agency has provided this level of consultation for free. And so anyone can come to Pushy and ask them PR questions. And what we did is we gated the content that Pushy can access to our case studies and our awards. And that way, you're not getting the hallucinations that you've heard about. And I mentioned awards.

[00:18:52] The thing that Pushy is digging into is over 200 awards that we have secured in our 10 years of being in business. In fact, just to toot our own horn even more, we are the most awarded agency person by person in the United States. Well, congrats. And Caroline, I'm curious, Pushy here. How do you use it? What kind of impact does it add on your work? And what other trends or innovations do you see affecting remote work in the future?

[00:19:21] Well, first off, I have to say, I know this is not a visual medium, but Pushy is absolutely adorable. So please go to our website and check him out. But yes, Pushy is great for streamlining processes so that when a prospect comes and they're able to kind of interact with that tool, they get a feel for what we'd be able to deliver to them. And so when they make that initial contact with them, with us, they already have a feel

[00:19:49] for what we could potentially provide and what direction they would like to take the conversation in. So really, it's kind of get straight around the small talk and some of the more rote aspects of building a relationship and get straight into the good stuff. So that's how Pushy has really been benefiting us in those first interactions with prospective new clients. And it's been great. And I have been doing a little research on you both before I came in and Bo Spar, of course.

[00:20:19] And one of the things that stood out to me was a children's book that Bo Spar is publishing about PR as a hidden profession. Sounds incredibly fascinating. But Curtis, what inspired this project and how do you hope it will influence the next generation of understanding of careers in PR and tech and bust a few myths and misconceptions? Tell me all about that, Curtis. So I have a niece who asked me what I did.

[00:20:42] And as I explained it and saw that she was kind of struggling with it, I thought, I'll go to Amazon and find something. And I didn't. I didn't find anything on Amazon. And the more I thought about it and the more I thought about what Bo Spar was doing for its tenure, it made sense for us to write a book about PR for 10-year-olds. There's a symmetry there.

[00:21:08] And what we wanted to do is place the 10-year-old at the center of the action. And so we based it on moments that have actually happened to us. I've worked with video games. I've worked in crisis communication. So the idea is that my niece Sloan discovers that her favorite video game is glitching and discovers that I'm working on that video game's PR account.

[00:21:34] And because I, as the character, have no idea from the gamer's point of view about the game, I deputized Sloan to help me figure out what's really going on and how to make the most of this PR moment. And, of course, life lessons are learned along the way. But we wanted to walk a newbie through all the different parts of PR because a lot of people don't have a sense of what it is. Our research shows that most Americans don't even know someone in PR.

[00:22:05] And we wanted to demystify a process that they only can access through characters like Kim Cattrall's character on Sex and the City. What an incredibly cool idea. Absolutely love that. Karen, have you had any dealings with the book? Anything you'd like to share on that? Yeah, I've really been enjoying seeing the book come to life. And as a matter of fact, I've been having a lot of fun coming up with questions for a

[00:22:32] survey that we're conducting just to see what kids are into these days and really reflect how PR fits into it, whether it's one of those invisible careers that a lot of kids and, let's face it, a lot of our parents know very little about. I talk to my mom and I try to explain it to her. So I think this book could be a great way to connect us to kind of the older generations just as much as the kids who are wondering what PR is all about as well.

[00:23:02] And I know those surveys are probably very early stage, but is there any feedback that surprised you at all? Anything that has really made you see how these kids are thinking a little bit differently around the world? Yeah. I think kids are, thank goodness, way more optimistic than their adult counterparts. So I think the kids are all right, as they say. They're thinking big ideas. And I think that we're in good hands going forward.

[00:23:26] And I think this survey will show a lot of creativity and a lot of positivity in that vein. And with a decade of experiences leading a tech PR agency, Curtis, I've got to ask, what advice would you offer the companies looking to successfully navigate some of those challenges of today's hybrid and remote work environment? And indeed PR, of course, tech PR, because again, a crowded market. It's incredibly complex. But any advice there? I do.

[00:23:56] I have a lot of advice. And I think the number one advice I have, just for anyone who wants to do PR or understand it, is read. I find that most of us are not reading. And we might be seeing something on a social media feed, but we're not digging down and reading it. One of the reasons why I'm very proud to be the president of the San Francisco Press Club is it connects me to all the journalists in the Bay Area who are really working hard at

[00:24:25] getting to the next level. And I find being that connected to journalists is so critically important for doing our work and understanding our world. And so if anyone is wanting to have a PR firm, I would say your first thing is to worship the journalists you're working with. And if you're not doing that, you really shouldn't be in the business. And I'm going to take a leaf out of your book there. We should all be reading more, Curtis.

[00:24:55] So, Carol, I'm going to ask you to add a book to our Amazon wishlist and follow through on that request by Curtis, again, as all reading. So what book would you like to add to our Amazon wishlist and why? Yeah, I'd love to share my pick. But before I do, so I just wanted to add on to what Curtis was saying is that one major trend that I see in media beyond the evolution of remote work itself is that there's a big

[00:25:22] consolidation in the industry and a lot of major outlets are downsizing or merging and there's fewer reporters doing more work. So we just have to understand that as PR professionals, we have to get more creative. We have to worship those journalists. We have to really pay attention and be plugged into what they are writing and what they're passionate about to deliver the results that we're looking for for our clients.

[00:25:48] And taking a page from Curtis's book, I suppose, I'd love to answer you about what I'm reading right now, which I'm enjoying immensely. I'm currently reading James, a novel by Percival Everett. It's got a lot of buzz right now, but it was recommended by my sister, Tisha. Shout out to Sis. She is an amazing nonprofit strategist and my ultimate role model.

[00:26:15] But the book explores themes of labor, resilience, identity, and it's pretty timely as we approach Black History Month. And of all things, the theme of Black History Month this year in particular is African Americans in labor. So with my background as a journalist and as a former editor for City Lights Books, I've just always been drawn to stories that highlight diverse perspectives.

[00:26:42] And thanks to BOSPAR, I get to work with San Francisco Pride. So that's really opened my eyes to even more of these stories. So I love reading books that really push the envelope and make me think a little bit differently. So recommend James highly. I love that. I'll get that added straight to our Amazon wishlist and a great story behind why you chose that book too. And Curtis, we've got a 10th anniversary to celebrate here.

[00:27:11] I'm going to see if we can try and do something special for you for investing your time and sharing your story with me today. Some of the biggest names in business VC funding and tech have either been guests, largely down to you guys in many ways, or listen to this podcast. So is there a particular person you'd love to have a private breakfast or lunch with? Because he or she might just get to hear this, but who would it be and why? Let's see what we can manifest together today. I would love to have lunch with Sam Altman.

[00:27:41] I think that his leadership journey has been one for the movies. And I think that he has been an exciting voice in the AI revolution. I kind of feel like we should have met. Both of us are gay. We're both men in San Francisco. And I just wonder, is he at cooler parties? Better events? I have a real fear of missing out. So I'd like to fix it. And maybe he does too.

[00:28:09] Maybe he's like, I want to know what that 50-year-old Curtis guy is doing. And so maybe a lunch at Lamar would solve that. Oh, I absolutely love that. And hopefully we've sent that out into the universe. Maybe a friend of a friend or somehow he will get back to him. Let's see if we can make something happen there. And for anybody interested, we've covered a lot today. Anybody interested in learning more about the book, Hushy, BoSpar, your services, or connecting with either of you, where would you like to point everyone listening today?

[00:28:37] I think BoSpar.com is the very easiest way. That's B as in boy, O as in octopus, S as in Sam, P as in Peter, A as in apple, R as in Robert. And just go there and it will manifest itself. And by the way, I've had to spell everything out like this my entire life because my voice, as you may have heard, is a little bit gay. And so people are like, wait, what did you say? Did you lisp? And I've thought, okay, I'm just going to get ahead of it and just spell it out. Oh, man.

[00:29:06] Well, I will get links added to everything to make it nice and easy for people to find you. And we've covered so much in a short amount of time today. From the biggest lessons learned and staying the course in an era of RTO tech bros, what's next for the future of remote work? Some eye-opening stats as well. 88% of people now have dedicated home working space, reducing their carbon footprint by 50%. But my favourite quote of all from both of you that you mentioned today is, worship the journalists.

[00:29:34] And on that note, I say thank you for joining me on the podcast today. Thank you, Neil. Thanks, Neil. I, for one, just love listening and learning from Curtis and Carol, reflecting on Bo Spar's 10-year journey and how PR continues to evolve and the role of technology in that. And I think their success proves that remote work isn't just viable. It can be a force for inclusivity, sustainability, and better work-life balance.

[00:30:02] And it's also fascinating to see how AI is entering that world, especially with tools like Pushy that is making it easier to navigate that fast-changing world. But equally, on the flip side of AI, we've got an old-school children's book that's being used to demystify and introduce PR to the next generation. But I suppose the bigger question that we didn't cover today is, how will that world continue to evolve in this increasingly AI-driven world?

[00:30:32] Will traditional media relations survive, or will AI-powered tools redefine the industry? I suspect it will be a combination of the two. But I'd love to hear your thoughts. Do you work in tech PR? Is it changing fast enough to keep up with today's fast-moving media landscape? Let's keep this conversation going. Please email me, techblogwriter at outlook.com, LinkedIn, X, Instagram, just at Neil C. Hughes. Let me know your thoughts. But that's it for today.

[00:31:02] So a happy 10th anniversary to everyone at Bo Spar. Thank you to each and every one of you for choosing to tune into this podcast every single day. I, for one, know how much of a big ass that is. But with all that said, I do cordially invite you to join me in doing it all again tomorrow. So hopefully I will speak with you all then. Bye for now.