3216: Rethinking Distributed Work with Atlassian's Teamwork Lab and People Insights Leaders

[00:00:04] Welcome back to another special edition of the Tech Talks Daily Podcast, coming to you from the Qualtrics X4 Summit here in Salt Lake City, Utah. And today I'm joined not by one, but two fantastic guests from Atlassian. First of all, we have Emma Crockett, Head of People Insights, and Molly Sands, Head of the Teamwork Lab.

[00:00:29] And yes, for most of you listening, you'll know that Atlassian has built a reputation for transforming the way that teams collaborate. And with the world of work shifting faster than ever, understanding how to keep teams connected, engaged and productive, whether in the office or remote, has never been more critical.

[00:00:49] So I caught up with Emma and Molly here on the show floor, and together we're going to share data-driven insights into what makes distributed teams thrive. How organizations can maybe rethink workplace design for the hybrid era. And why the secret to better collaboration is certainly not more meetings. It's smarter communication. So together we're going to explore Atlassian's collaboration.

[00:01:17] We're also going to explore today Atlassian's research on breaking down information silos, fostering psychological safety, and even an unexpected workplace experiment called the Chief Vibes Officer. And man, that is a job title I would love to have.

[00:01:36] So whether you're leading a remote team, navigating workplace transformation, or simply curious about what the future of teamwork looks like and the technology involved, you're in for a treat. But enough for me. It's time for me to beam your ears directly to the show floor here at the X4 Summit. So thank you for joining me here at X4 in Salt Lake. Got not one but two great guests joining me today. So can you begin by telling everyone a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:02:05] Hi, I'm Molly Sands and I'm the head of the Teamwork Lab at Atlassian. My team is filled with behavioral scientists and transformation experts and we study the future of work. And so we study teams in Atlassian and outside the organization to understand what the best teams do so we can replicate it. And then we scale that through practices and ways of working to help teams adopt better practices. And Emma, can you tell everyone listening a little about yourself too? Sure. Hi, I'm Emma Crockett.

[00:02:35] Wonderful to be here. I lead our People Insights team at Atlassian. So effectively responsible for measuring the outcomes on all people-related initiatives at Atlassian. Welcome to both of you. You've both been incredibly busy. Yesterday you did a session entitled From Data to Action, Evidence-Based Insights for Distributed Teams. So I've got to ask, how has your X4 experience been so far? Really great so far. It's a really good vibe.

[00:03:03] The sessions are very informative. It's been wonderful to be here. Yeah, some really great conversations. Lots of people that are thinking so much about employee and customer experience. And it's been really interesting to talk with them and hear about what they're doing in their organizations. And for most people listening, I think Atlassian is known for its data-driven approach to teamwork. But what are some of the biggest insights that you've uncovered recently about managing distributed teams effectively? Because the world's changing, isn't it now?

[00:03:33] Yeah, the world is changing and it's changing fast. So when we talk about distributed teams, we're really just talking about any time that you're working with people in other locations. And we see consistently in our data that that is the reality for almost all teams today. So whether you're answering emails at home or you're working with a client or a customer that sits in a different office, everyone is doing distributed work.

[00:03:56] And there's a lot of our old ways of working that we've taken online with us that aren't serving us super well today. And so the more that teams can reinvent how they work and start to adopt new ways to collaborate that are more efficient and more effective and more human, that's a really, really good thing. And I think a lot of the challenges are not just technical. Collaboration across multiple time zones can create challenges in communication and decision making.

[00:04:24] Even while we're here at a tech conference, I suspect you're speaking with colleagues and teams around the world and trying to juggle that. So what strategies have you found most effective in improving that information flow? Yeah, so we think really about three things. One is can we get really clear for everyone across our entire organization about what work matters most?

[00:04:45] And this really happens through super clear goals and priorities and helping every person in a team explain in the same way what matters and why. And I think that a lot of leaders can think to themselves about, hey, if I asked every person in my team what of our work is most important, would they say the same thing? And if you're not at that point, try asking people and start having those conversations. And you can get to that place where it's super clear. So we think a lot about clear goals.

[00:05:15] We also think a lot about how we communicate. And that's a huge opportunity for most organizations. So the more that we can make information openly available and accessible by doing more what we call asynchronous communication. So writing things down, using asynchronous video, putting the important context about our work into places where other people can learn from it so everyone doesn't have to relearn the same things over and over. That's hugely impactful.

[00:05:45] And then we also think about how we spend our time together. And so this is a lot of what we've been talking about here at the Squaltrics conference. How do we use the time when we're actually together, not just to talk about work and coordinate all the logistics, but to actually do real creative work together? Fantastic. Emma, anything that you'd like to add to that at all? I mean, I'm just here for the data.

[00:06:07] So for me, it's all about how are we measuring how well we're doing those three things, learning from the insights that we find, and then continuously improving in the future. Awesome. And I think it was a few years ago, it was often said that there's nothing more damaging in the workplace than saying, but hey, we've always done it this way. And that is more important than ever now, being more innovative, changing the way you're working, not being afraid to mix things up.

[00:06:32] So I'm curious, how do you, Lassyn, how do you experiment with workplace design to optimize productivity and connection in this hybrid or even fully remote environment? Yeah, Emma and I are both big data people. But we really think about approaching designing new ways of working in a really iterative, scrappy, and experimental way. So we tend to start small and measure outcomes and then build from there. We've done this in a lot of different spaces.

[00:06:58] Because our workplace design, our design of our spaces and the programming that helps support our 12,000 employees is an area where we've done a lot of really interesting work in this way. We have redesigned our 12 office locations to help better meet the needs of a distributed workforce. We have a fully flexible policy so people can choose when they come into the office and just come at the times when it suits them best. But that's really changed what they need from our office space.

[00:07:28] So it's not that everyone needs a desk to sit out all day long. They're often coming because they're doing a gathering with their team and they need workshop or brainstorming space or a sprint room. Or they're coming in and they need to make sure that virtual collaborators can join all of their meetings. And so we've used a lot of the data that we have from how people use our spaces and from all of our employee experience and listening strategy to help understand those needs a lot better and understand how people are using the spaces.

[00:07:56] And then we'll run experiments where we'll actually set up something new. We'll move the furniture around. We'll add new kinds of more plants. We'll add more privacy. We'll try setting up new types of collaboration rooms. And then we'll look at how much they get used and how people like them and if it changes their overall perception of those spaces. How do people react when they walk in the office and you say you've changed everything around? Some people adapt better than others, shall I say. Totally.

[00:08:26] We do a lot of signage and a lot of wayfinding. And we let our employees know at Atlassian that we are experimenting with this stuff and we share a lot of what we learn with them. So I think they are far less surprised than they would be in many companies. And usually they like the things. We do a lot of user research, too, to understand what teams actually want and need from the spaces and what's not working about them. And so then sometimes you get a delightful surprise where you're like, nobody ever used this room.

[00:08:54] This room was weird and we didn't, you know, it wasn't set up for what we actually wanted to do here. And then all of a sudden, boom, you have like beautiful little private office suites that appear. And so some of the surprises are fun. One of the things I love about what you said there is both of you are data people and leadership decisions about employee experiences are often based on more gut feeling. So how does Atlassian use data to ensure these decisions are grounded in evidence? Because it seems such a refreshing approach. I love this question.

[00:09:24] This is my goal in life is really to kind of understand what the business is trying to achieve, lay out the levers that are going to get us there, and then monitor the data over time to draw insights about how we can get closer to that outcome. So I love that Atlassian is as data driven as it is. We do try and ensure that the questions that we're asking in our surveys are really topical to the business.

[00:09:50] So when we deliver a strategy up to our employees, we then check their understanding of that strategy to see if we need to make iterations there. And leadership loves that because they're getting real time feedback that they can iterate on and learn from. Love that. And psychological safety and trust, they're also key factors in teamwork, of course. So what data driven approaches have you found helpful in fostering that strong team culture, especially when employees are not co-located?

[00:10:18] Anything you can share around that and the data and how that works? Yeah. One of my favorite experiments we did with our employees was totally optional. And we had over 700 people sign up in like 24 hours to participate in this. But it's something we call the chief vibes officer. And so in your team, you set a CVO of the week. And that is a person who's responsible for coming up with some absolutely ridiculous question to ask the team and to have everyone weigh in and respond. So they pick the question.

[00:10:48] My very favorite example, which is what we used as the title of this blog post to get all those people interested, is would you rather have meat hair? So your hair just grows as like ground beef or permanent Cheeto dust on your fingers forever. And everything you touch gets Cheeto dust all over it. What would you rather have? I have learned so much about the people on my team from simply this ridiculous question.

[00:11:17] And so you set up a rotation within your team. And every single week, you have some sort of thing. It doesn't have to be this. It could be much more sentimental or personal. But you learn all these things over time. And we found that this is an amazing way to drive much more connected teams. But not only that, it's actually helped people feel a lot more comfortable asking each other questions at work and being more vulnerable and asking for help.

[00:11:42] And I think it really speaks to this idea that having those moments of very human and fun and silly connection is so key. And you don't necessarily need to be in person to be able to do that. Wow. And I would imagine anyone involved in those kind of conversations, they proper buy into it. I've been in so many heated pub debates around who would win in a fight between Superman and Batman. People take those arguments seriously. Very seriously. And you learn a lot about why.

[00:12:09] The rationale is just as important as your actual answer. I, for the record, am team Cheeto dust forever. Not going with mean hair. Emma, would you like to answer that question? Which you would choose? Cheeto dust as well. Lady Gaga turned me away from wearing my person forever. And I think in, what, over 3,200 interviews on here, I've heard so many cool job titles from evangelists to ninjas. But chief vibes officer, that's got to be one, isn't it? I'd love to put that on my passport form.

[00:12:38] So I've got to ask, though, all sitting seriously here, what common mistakes do you see organizations making when trying to improve collaboration amongst their remote teams? And how can they avoid them? We're all exhausted of a Zoom happy hour. That is not how people want to connect and spend time together.

[00:12:56] But I think most organizations really need to focus on information flow and how they share information and scale information and making that, making communication much easier and more pervasive. And we see that this is one of the biggest problems in companies today. And it actually doesn't have that much to do with where you work.

[00:13:18] Even teams that are co-located in offices or spread across lots of different office locations are really held back by information silos. And our latest State of Teams report really dives into a lot of the research behind this. But we see that 74% of executives say that problems with communication are what's holding their teams back from moving quickly and from doing higher quality work.

[00:13:42] And so when you think about building better collaboration muscles, what you really want to work towards is making it possible for anyone to get the information they need to do their work at any time. You can't be fully dependent on someone replying to your Slack or Teams ping every minute to move your work forward. And so as we move towards collaboration models that look more like that, anyone in the company can start to see what are other teams actually working on.

[00:14:10] We need that system, that system of work that really helps us to understand how we can plug in to this bigger picture in our organization. And when I talk with leaders about how they're going to equip distributed or remote teams or hybrid teams that are working with people all over the world to do that more effectively, I really anchor on higher transparency. So more information sharing and then writing things down.

[00:14:39] And it's not that you need endless documentation. We are all drowning in information and notifications. But you need that high quality information. I need to know where to go to read a brief description of what this project is or to understand if the person I'm working with on a project actually finished that task, even if they're not there to tell me in person. And that's what starts to really free up organizations and help people spend a lot more time doing the real work.

[00:15:06] And it's also what's going to help them take advantage of AI. Because AI does not know what you say at the water cooler. It does not know about that random PowerPoint that I did that's on my desktop. It doesn't know. And so the more that you're thinking about how do we build the right systems so information is in predictable places and it's available to our knowledge base, that's when we're going to start to see this amazing ability to get the context you need in a useful way so that you can do what you need to do in the best way.

[00:15:34] I love the line you used there, AI doesn't know what you talked about at the water cooler. It's so true, something we so often forget. I think we also forget the role of serendipity as well when we're working around the world in different locations and those random conversations that you have at a coffee machine or a water cooler. But looking ahead, I'm curious, how do you see the role of people's analytics? How do you see that evolving? Are there any trends that leaders listening should be paying attention to that might help shape the future of work? Yeah.

[00:16:02] And I mean, look, there's no doubt that AI is going to continue to be changing jobs as we know them in the future. I think what is critically important is that people analytics remains about people. There's a human element to our work that we can't lose, even incorporating new technologies like AI. What do I think is most important outside of that?

[00:16:24] I'm like a broken record on this one, but I think it's so important to frame the outcomes, understand what you're trying to achieve, tie back to goals if you can and align your workforce around goals. Measure what you're trying to achieve and then learn from where you are, where you hoped to end up, where you are now and how to get there in the future. And there is a lot of talk at the moment about people not getting the ROI from their AI investments. And it comes right back to what you're saying here, doesn't it?

[00:16:54] You need to measure the tangible results, the ROI. You need to be measuring something. Well, yeah. What are you trying to achieve? Are you trying to get time savings? Are you trying to increase collaboration across your workforce and unlock those silos that exist in information sharing? So it all comes back to what are you trying to achieve with AI and then how, you know, measure your progress against that. And you can do that as simply as asking your employees to self-report it. And a question for both of you here.

[00:17:22] Here at the Qualtrics event, the X4 event in Salt Lake, one of the great things about meeting in person is we get to share ideas and meet people and have conversations with people we wouldn't usually meet. So if you were to take out all those conversations that you've had, including the one in your own session, what are you going to be reflecting on on that journey home? I was asked an interesting question, which was where does employee experience begin and end?

[00:17:47] And I'm not sure that I have like a super pithy answer for right now, but that is one that I'm going to be reflecting on for a while because it sort of touches everything. And so, you know, you can't sort of conquer the universe and say all of this is my domain, but you need to be in support of your employees. And, you know, as we adopt new technologies, as we roll out different work practices, as we roll out different technologies, how are we supporting our employees best as we're doing those things?

[00:18:16] So that's one that I'm going to be thinking about for a while. 100% with you. And Molly, from all those keynotes and breakout sessions, anything that you're going to be thinking about on the way home? Yeah, I think I've had a lot of similar conversations to Emma where we've really been talking about how do we measure and change the employee experience and what does that look like?

[00:18:37] And how can we approach that in more iterative ways where you can start to show the impact of some of these subtle and simple changes? And so I think I'll be continuing to reflect on ways that we can do that better at Atlassian and what we can learn from all of the incredible people that are doing those things here too. Awesome. And for anybody listening wanting to find out more information about anything we talked about today, we've referenced the report that you mentioned, your session. Equally, you've got the Atlassian event coming up in a few weeks' time too.

[00:19:07] Where should people go to find out more information? Yeah, definitely checking out our work-life blog at Atlassian. We have a lot of our great research reports. Lots of the things we do around more innovative working are available there, including that State of Teams report. And you can also find us on LinkedIn. Awesome. Well, I'll have links to everything so people can find you nice and easily. I appreciate how busy you are dashing around the event at the moment. But just thank you for sitting down with me and sharing your insights. Yeah, thanks so much for having us. Thank you for having us.

[00:19:37] Wow. An absolute masterclass there in modern teamwork, collaboration and data-driven decision-making. So a big thank you to Emma Crockett and Molly Sands from Atlassian for sharing their insights with me today. From tackling the challenges of distributed teams to redefining workplace design and fostering stronger connections, I think it's clear that the future of work isn't just about where we work, but how we work together.

[00:20:04] And one of my big takeaways is the need to rethink communication. Making information more accessible. Embracing async collaboration. Creating spaces, both digital and physical. Spaces that actually support how teams operate today. Not the way we used to work. And of course, more than anything, I'm going to be thinking about that Chief Vibes Officer Experiment. I love that job title.

[00:20:31] And if that doesn't spark some fun in your workplace, I'm not sure what will. So if you want to explore more of Atlassian's research, remember, check out their State of the Teams report, which I will link to, and their Work Life blog. And as always, love to hear your thoughts. How is your team adapting to the changing world of work? And what tech tools are you using? Please drop me a message at techblogwriteroutlook.com, LinkedIn, X, Instagram. Just app Neil C. Hughes.

[00:21:00] But until next time, keep innovating, keep collaborating, and keep questioning that status quo. Speak with you all again tomorrow. Bye for now.