3525: iBanFirst and the Shift Toward Specialist Fintechs for Global Payments

[00:00:04] Why is one particular fintech out there winning customers while so many are slowing down? And what does that say about how SMEs really want to move money across borders? Well, today I'm joined by the founder and CEO of a company called iBanFirst. He started out as an FX trader, built and sold his first venture, then set out to fix opaque pricing and clunky bank processes

[00:00:33] the kind of things that hold small and mid-sized businesses back. So I invited him to join me today to learn more about how iBanFirst links FX and payments in one seamless workflow and why transparency and real-time tracking can actually change buyer and supplier relationships. And also how forward contracts can help firms plan in the mobile of daily currency swings.

[00:01:01] I also want to learn a little bit more about what my guest sees in the UK fintech ecosystem compared with continental Europe and how a focus on product fit and expert support is actually driving a surge of SME wins at a time where many peers are pulling back. But before I get my guest on today, I want to give a quick thank you to my friends at Denodo

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[00:01:54] Denodo delivers trustworthy and AI-ready data without the need to copy it everywhere. Essentially, you can optimise your lake house, accelerate agentic AI, and build data products that finally make self-service real and achievable. And with a powerful partner ecosystem, teams get to value even faster. So if you're ready to understand why your AI projects fail and how to succeed with AI,

[00:02:25] simply visit denodo.com and take control of your data world. But enough for me. Let's get my guest onto the podcast now. So a massive warm welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? Yeah, I'm a French entrepreneur. I am the CEO and founder of a company called Iban First.

[00:02:51] Iban First is actually the second company I started. My first company was a company called Combeast.com. It was an FX broker for retail investors that I started in 2005, sold it to Saxo Bank 2008. And then I ran Saxo Bank operation in Europe, in Western Europe from 2008 to 2016.

[00:03:19] On 2016, I left Saxo and went full-time to build Iban First. And you've had quite a journey there. One of the things I was going to say to you, because I always try and do on this podcast, is find a little bit more about the origin story of that hugely successful person today. And you started out as an FX trader before going on to become a serial entrepreneur.

[00:03:45] So what was it that motivated you to challenge the traditional banking model and launch Iban First back in 2016? There's got to be a story there, right? Yeah, yeah, sure. So the story is, so after, I mean, my first job was an FX trader in London. So I started my career in a bank in London. And, you know, when you are not coming from the best of the best French school,

[00:04:16] you can't trade derivatives or you can't trade like the best product in the dealing room. So they give you the things that nobody wants to do on the things that nobody wants to do at that time. It was FX, FX trading. So because I was coming from a good school, but not the best one. They told me, OK, you have to do you are going to be an FX trader. And actually, it was a mega opportunity because I learned a lot.

[00:04:44] And I saw that there was a lot of things to improve in the FX world. And so at the beginning, I was not happy because I wanted to do derivatives like all my other friends. But then I was happy because I saw there was mega opportunities. And the first opportunity was actually to develop FX brokerage for retail investors.

[00:05:08] Because back at the beginning of the year 2000, it was impossible for retail investors actually to invest on the FX market. You could buy stocks, but it was very difficult to buy dollar, to buy the yen, to invest on different currencies. And what I saw actually is that in the UK, there was some at the time, it was like spread betting companies or CFDs or contract for difference brokers,

[00:05:37] stuff like that, that were starting on the UK. And it was only in the UK actually that this business was existing. So my idea was to develop the same. So to copy basically what was existing in the UK in France.

[00:05:56] So the reason why I started Combeast.com, which was really the first FX brokerage for a company for retail investors. And yeah, it was again, it was an opportunity because it's because of my knowledge of the FX. I was able to do that. And the opportunity was like at that time. Yeah, I was the first one.

[00:06:21] So very quickly it worked well and I was able to sell this company to Saxo Bank. So I just sold it like three years after starting it. I was young, so I was very happy to be able to start a company and to do a company and sell it quickly. Sometimes I'm thinking probably I sold it too quickly.

[00:06:45] But anyway, after selling it, I had a system of earn out with Saxo Bank. So I was at the beginning obliged to stay with Saxo. But actually I like it a lot. So even if I was obliged, I learned a lot being in a larger corporation and building also all the operation of the bank in Western Europe.

[00:07:14] So even first what we do, we do cross-border payment for SMEs. So with Saxo Bank on all this experience, I knew how to do FX and I knew how to get the best price on the FX market. I knew also that when you think about payment, when you do a dollar-dollar payment, it's free. When you do a euro-to-euro payment, it's free.

[00:07:41] But then if you're an SME that needs to send money somewhere, so it means when you need to send money somewhere in the other part of the world, you need to do some FX and you need to do some payment. And when you mix the two together, even though actually the FX is a commodity and it's quite cheap, even though a payment is cheap too, if you mix the two together, then it's becoming very expensive.

[00:08:06] So I was thinking, yeah, I have to fix that. On Wezaiband first, I was able to fix it. So this is our proposition now. So we have more than 10,000 clients around Europe. And all those clients, thanks to our platform, they have a great experience where they can pay or be paid

[00:08:32] in more than 30 different currencies at very good rates and with a lot of very fast and a very good experience. So, yeah. And what a great story. And I just love that at the time, you know, you assigned something that nobody wanted to do. You was unhappy about it, but it actually gave you this great opportunity that would put you on this path.

[00:08:59] And fast forward to present day, Iban First has grown to serve more than 10,000 clients and process more than 2 billion euros in transactions every single month. Now, at a time when many fintechs are slowing down, why do you think your growth story is booking that wider trend? I mean, the thing is, we have a great product. So the clients are loving it.

[00:09:25] So the reason why we are growing like this is that our product is very sticky. So the clients love it. So once they are becoming clients, they stay client and they stay client forever. And even they are using us more and more. So because we are competing with banks. So, you know, if you want to pay cross-border, one of your providers,

[00:09:50] either you use a bank or either use an alternative like us or either us. So, but at the beginning, very often our client is still continue to use their bank and then they use us. But then very quickly we get 100% of all the operations they do. So it's very sticky. And this is the first thing.

[00:10:16] And then we are able to add a lot of client on top of the client that we still have. Because first, we are very good in outbound. So outbound sales. So we are very good at convincing client to join us. You know, the traditional bank, they are not very active trying to get new clients. They are waiting for clients to come. Us, we are proactive.

[00:10:44] And so we get a lot of clients like this. And also, what is interesting is that now more and more SMEs, I mean, for more and more SMEs, it's like a no-brainer to come to us when it's about a cross-border payment. Because they know that our product, our service, our price, everything is going to be better than within a typical bank.

[00:11:11] And, you know, it's interesting because like five years ago, even three years ago, it was not really like this. And we had always to convince clients that our service was good and better than traditional player. But now, you know, there is a new generation of CFOs, new generation of CEOs. And those guys in their day-to-day life, they are using WISE or alternative like this.

[00:11:40] So then when they are in their company, they want something also that is going to be as good in terms of UX, in terms of UI, in terms of everything, in terms of service, than what they can get for themselves. So they start looking for solution and they find us. So the interesting point is now we have like more than 30% of our clients

[00:12:08] that are coming from pure inbound. So this is a growing number. So this is very interesting for B2B business because B2B business is difficult to get inbound. But obviously, we have some strong inbound. So it's good. It really is. And I think transparency around FX has been a major issue for SMEs. And it feels like it's been like a snowball, just getting bigger and bigger and bigger every year.

[00:12:36] So how does IBAN first approach this differently? And what kind of response are you seeing from your clients that have been frustrated with legacy banks that have been too slow, too expensive, and it's almost seen a mismatch with today's modern digital world? Yeah, yeah. So, no, exactly. So, I mean, the traditional banks, they have a lot of legacy. So it's not, let's say, not their fault always.

[00:13:05] The reason why they are not able to provide a service like what we do to their client. So there are many things here. So the first thing is that we are really able to mix payment on FX is what I was saying at the beginning. But it's very interesting to be able to provide a real-time FX price link to a payment operation.

[00:13:30] In a traditional environment, you have on one side the FX, and you can do your FX operation, probably with a tight spread. But then, once you have done it, you need to do a payment. So the two are not linked. And then it means a lot of small operations done by the CEO, the CFO of a company who wants to transact.

[00:13:59] So as we have done everything at the same place, on the same platform, you can see your FX rate, and then you can do your payment based on this real-time FX rate. So this is the first thing. The second thing is that we are able to give a lot of information about those payments on those transactions to our client, a lot of real-time information. So, for example, we have a payment tracker

[00:14:28] based on Swift GPI technology where the client is able to track his payment in real-time. And this is something that is very difficult, actually, to find in any banks where you never know exactly when your payment had been executed and when your payment had been received. And sometimes it's very frustrating,

[00:14:56] and sometimes also it's risky for a business because, you know, if you pay one of your providers in China and this guy is going to actually send the goods that you order, when he's going to receive the money. But until he didn't receive the money, your goods won't arrive. So with us, you can see exactly in which correspondent banks your money is

[00:15:25] because when you do cross-border payment, actually, your money can go up to six banks, go through up to six banks before arriving to where you want to send it. For example, if you send dollar in Hong Kong, your dollar, they are going to go through the U.S. before arriving to Hong Kong. And in the U.S., they can go through two different correspondent banks. Each of them can do some checks

[00:15:54] about their KYT process. And all this can slow down your operation. And then sometimes you don't know where your money is. Not with us. So with us, you know exactly where it is. And this is very important. I gave you this example of payment tracker, but actually we have a lot of different features, such like this one, that help our client to manage all their process

[00:16:21] in terms of managing their payment around the world. And this is the reason why they come also to us. It's because they know that, yeah, they will be in control of their payment operation. And I think something else that stands out about your story, what makes you unique, is you chose to scale the company in London rather than Paris. And despite being French yourself too. So I've got to ask, what was it that drove that decision?

[00:16:50] And how would you compare maybe the UK-French ecosystem with that in continental Europe? Any big differences there? Yes. Yeah, but the real story is that the company starts in continental Europe. Yeah. So actually we are incorporated in Belgium. Most of the team are in Paris, but we are a Belgian company. And all our competitors were coming from the UK.

[00:17:18] So everybody was incorporated in the UK and everybody was passporting their license from the UK to continental Europe. Because suddenly all our competitors disappeared. Because we were the only one who had decided to develop this business from continental Europe. So the biggest competitor actually, post-Brexit, decided to open also offices in continental Europe in order to cover continental Europe.

[00:17:47] But all the small ones, it was too costly, too complicated to do. So they didn't do it. So they stopped to cover continental Europe and they kept only the UK business. Their UK business. So then our idea was, okay, but us, why not going to the UK as well and getting some UK clients? Because actually, it became a big opportunity for us in terms of buying small brokers that were actually struggling a little bit

[00:18:17] because of Brexit. They were not able anymore to cover continental Europe. So their business was smaller. And so this was our idea. And the reason why we bought actually a broker here called Cornil. And we bought them with this idea, actually, because this idea of developing our platform on the UK market with a UK license. And yeah,

[00:18:46] so this is the story. And it worked very well. On the story, so it worked very well. And what is interesting now, you are talking about, you talk about the ecosystem also. And yes, even after Brexit, actually, the ecosystem, financial ecosystem, financial services, payment ecosystem in the UK and London is like 10 times, 100 times bigger than in Paris, for example. So, for example,

[00:19:16] this week, I was at a conference called the Pay360 Awards. It's something where people from the payment industry are receiving awards. Actually, I didn't know this before being in London. But what is amazing is that there was probably 2,000 people with more like 100 companies at this party. And

[00:19:45] if I think about the payment ecosystem in Paris, it's, I don't know, probably, there is 10 companies and maximum and probably there are like 100 people who understand payment around in Paris. So, it's totally different scale in terms of ecosystem in London compared to Paris or other cities in Europe. I think when it comes

[00:20:14] to cross-border payments and FX, they're traditionally heavily influenced by volatility. So, how do you help SMEs adapt their strategies every day in such unpredictable conditions? I'd love to hear more about that. Yeah, so, there is a product that is called it's a forward so we are offering forward payment to our client. For a forward payment,

[00:20:44] it means that it allows our client to hedge themselves for their future payment. So, it's what we offer and what we do. So, it's basically just fixing the future currency rate of a payment operation. So, when we have a client who knows that he has to pay a bill in dollar in three months' time, we offer for him to lock the cable rate,

[00:21:15] the GBP USD rate on the period. So, he knows in front of paying this bill how much he's going to have to pay and what will be the future rate. So, it's very convenient and actually it's very important for any SME to be able or to access volatility. It's a big risk for business. And actually, currency volatility is not something

[00:21:45] that is decreasing now. It's something that is increasing especially with tariff. We saw a crazy volatility on the market during Liberation Day and the beginning of this year. This volatility can be a big risk for some businesses. If your margin in your business is 10%, 20%, and then if you suffer 20% volatility, suddenly you don't have any more margin

[00:22:15] on the product you are selling. So, it's really worth it to be able to edge yourself against currency risk. I was reading before you came on today, in the last four months alone, more than 1,000 SMEs have joined iBand first. Huge momentum growing here. So, what are these customers looking for that they're not getting from incumbents and other fintechs? They're coming for all that.

[00:22:45] What is interesting is that they're not coming for only one thing. They're coming for the full experience and all the things they can get. We were just talking about edging. It's how they can do edging with us that is interesting. It's very easy, very fast, very transparent what they can do around edging. So, there is also plenty of features that our clients like. For example,

[00:23:15] our clients are doing multi-currency. They're multi-currency but they are also multi-entities so they can manage our platform the account of different companies they have. So, there are multi-entities there are multi-countries there are multi-users also. There's not only a CEO or CFO that is accessing the platform they can give the right of accessing the platform to somebody else also and they can manage those rights

[00:23:45] easily on the platform. So, they are coming for that. Some of them are coming just because they need to do one spot operation. some of them want to do some forward operation. Some of them want to be sure that the payment are going fast. So, there are plenty of reasons like this. But globally, they know that the full experience around cross-border payment is going to be better than with a typical

[00:24:15] bank because actually it's I mean, we are experts of this field. We have 120 IT developers that are working only on improving this experience and building the best platform and because of that actually our product that is doing only that is the best of the market. Another big topic of course is regulation especially with PSD2 accreditations and being a member

[00:24:45] of SWIFT and SEPA. How important is compliance in establishing trust and scaling across so many European markets there? Any challenges you've come across or just how you're overcoming any challenges there? Yeah, so it's part of the job. Compliance is what we have to do. Let's say it's the right to play or the cost to play. So yeah, it's a big investment for us

[00:25:15] and we have compliance officers, AML officers in each country where we are and we are using a lot of software to do transaction monitoring and to follow and understand exactly what's going on in our systems. So yeah, so it's part of the challenge and actually if you look at our company today, we are a bit below 400 people among those

[00:25:45] 400 people. Let's say we have like one third of the head. What's your long term vision for IBAN first and how do you see the cross border payment space further evolving for SMEs

[00:26:14] over the next ? So it's becoming a no brainer more and more for

[00:26:44] an SME to use alternatives like us instead of a bank. I ideas is that it will be the opposite. It would be more like 90% of this market. I'm talking about

[00:27:13] SMEs, not large corporate, but just for SMEs. So 90% of the SMEs, they will use us or people like us instead of a bank to do those operations in the future. So it's what we think, what we see. We saw it for retail, actually, for consumers. Again, 10 years ago, everybody was using a bank to do

[00:27:37] his money transfer. Now, if you think about money transfer, you think about Wise or people like Wise, but you don't use your bank to do it. So we see the same thing happening in the SME space, which is very interesting, obviously. Wow. Exciting times ahead. And for anybody listening that wants to dig a little bit deeper

[00:28:02] on anything we talked about, or try and understand how IBAN first might be able to help them and their business and speed things up, cook costs, all those big boxes to tick there. Where's the best starting point for everything? So you can contact us on the website. You can open an account very quickly and easily. And also, you can contact one or an expert that is going to, if you are worried about something, you want to do a

[00:28:29] specific operation, you need to buy some Mexican pesos. You're thinking to do business in Africa. You're not sure how to do it. I mean, we have people to that expert that can help you and tell you how it works. So, yeah. Awesome. Well, I'll add links to everything, including your website, your social channels. And if I find a video, I might embed something like that just to bring it all to life for you. And

[00:28:54] I, for one, I've just loved chatting with you today and learning more about the story behind why IBAN first is booking the trend and the broader fintech growth trend as well. And also how you're seeing a surge in customer wins. And also that very personal story, that transition from FX trader to serial entrepreneur and the motivation behind it all for challenging traditional banks and their

[00:29:19] opaque FX practices. Very inspirational. So, just thank you for taking the time to sit down with me and share it today. Cool. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Neil. Thanks a lot. So many big takeaways there. I think the big through line for me was simple. When you remove hidden costs and friction from cross-border payments, usage grows, trust improves, and finance teams get their time back. And the counterpoint is very real too. A lot of banks still own deep relationships and

[00:29:48] balance sheets and volatility. Never sleeps. Still doesn't. And discipline around hedging, controls, and compliance will always separate durable operators from fast followers. But over to you. Are you still relying on your primary bank for FX and global payments? Or have you moved to a more specialist model? And what was it that changed your mind? Please share your

[00:30:13] thoughts and experiences with me. You know where to get me by now. TechTalksNetwork.com. Let me know your thoughts. But other than that, it's time for me to go now. I've got a bit of a cold this week. So, I'm going to rest my vocal cords. Maybe drink some hot honey or something so I can be back in my podcasting chair tomorrow. Thanks for listening as always. Speak with you tomorrow. Bye for now. Bye for now.