3530: Candy Crush Accessibility Lessons From a 200 Million Player Game

[00:00:04] How often do we really stop to think about who technology is actually designed for? And who we might be leaving out along the way? This is a conversation I've been wanting to have for some time now, and something that I genuinely enjoyed recording because it sits right at the intersection of creativity, empathy and scale.

[00:00:27] My guest today is a creative leader working on products that reach hundreds of millions of people around the world. But not only that, it's across every generation and every continent, even Antarctica. So we're going to talk about inclusive design, accessibility and why building for difference doesn't limit creativity, but it pushes it even further. So my guest today is Abigail Rindo. She's head of creative for King.

[00:00:57] And if that doesn't mean anything to you, if I was to say Candy Crush Saga, then I'm sure you will know exactly what I'm talking about and the scale of how many people that that game reaches. So today we're going to discuss everything from surprising player insights to the responsibilities that come with the global reach. And it's a conversation about how small design decisions can quietly improve daily life for millions of people around the world.

[00:01:25] And yes, we do even find time to talk about games, storytelling and what people play when it gets dark in Stockholm. Yeah, we're going to have a bit of fun along the way. Before we go into today's episode, I just want to give a quick shout out to my good friends at Denodo. The data world is louder than ever. Yeah, AI hype, lake house complexity and pressure to deliver more with less.

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[00:02:18] So whether you are a CIO or a builder, Denodo and AWS can help you unlock real AI outcomes without the headaches of data replication. And you can learn more at denodo.com slash AWS. But now it's time for me to officially introduce you to today's guest. So a massive warm welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Neil.

[00:02:46] I really appreciate you having me having me on the show today. So my name is Abigail Rindo. I work as the head of creative for King Games, which means basically anyone who works on what we like to call the creative crafts, whether that's UX design, UI design, working on artwork or audio or game design within our games.

[00:03:08] I kind of make sure that they have what they need to do the best work they can and know what direction we're going in when we work on our games like Candy Crush or Candy Crush Soda or Farm Heroes, those kind of games. Right now I'm focusing on Candy Crush Saga. Wow. Incredibly cool job you've got there. And so many of those titles, everyone will know about them. Every generation in every house I will have played at least one of those games. I can almost guarantee it.

[00:03:35] And you've shaped those player experiences across more than 40 different titles. So I've got to ask, when you look back at King's Journey, how has the idea of things like inclusive design evolved inside the studio? And what does it look like in practice today? Because as I said, if we take the typical home, I would say almost every generation has played one of your games. It's got to be a big deal, right? Yeah, it feels very fortunate.

[00:04:01] It's such a privilege to be able to impact the lives of so many players. I've been with King for about six years. And over that time, I worked on all of the live titles and then a few of the new game titles as well. And those are included in those 40 titles that you mentioned. And during those six years, it has been really interesting, right?

[00:04:22] It started kind of as a grassroots effort, this inclusive design practice that we had with our global UX director at the time and a group of incredibly passionate people, primarily in the UX design craft and in other crafts as well.

[00:04:40] And they formed a group that is still around today called the Gators that specifically talks to players, focuses on these areas that's educational work around inclusive design. We even schedule a yearly meetup with our players that we call Player Accessibility Day, where we talk to players that have different needs and also run educational workshops for the rest of the studio.

[00:05:08] So it's really evolved from a grassroots effort to a much more organized and deliberate effort to bring it into our design practices. And one of the things I try and do on this podcast every day is get people thinking differently about the ways that technology impacts our lives. And many players don't always think about or see the work that goes into accessibility behind the scenes.

[00:05:33] So are there any moments or insights that convince you that accessibility had to be more at the center of that creative process rather than as a later stage add-on, which it possibly was a few years ago? But tell me more about that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think just talking to our players and understanding the impact that it has in their lives has really made a big difference in terms of helping teams understand.

[00:05:57] But I'm a firm believer also that inclusive design raises the bar of design for everyone, not just the people that we're designing to improve the experience for, right? I think when it comes to actually discovering these things around our players, one of the things that we found when we're talking to them and we have some really amazing UX researchers that are really passionate about this.

[00:06:24] And we found that maybe more players than we expected because we have – this number is always so unreal for me to bring up. We have over 200 million people monthly that are playing our games. And more than 25% of them self-identify as having some sort of accessibility need.

[00:06:46] And even, you know, when you look beyond those 25%, we've been hearing from players that don't self-identify that when we add these settings, they tell us, wow, this has been such a difference in our life, right? Like whether it's, you know, being able to change the audio settings for someone who might have tinnitus or, you know, somebody who can turn down the flashing on the screen and it lowers the level of eye strain they have. You know, these things are really improving their lives.

[00:07:14] And because they spend, you know, a lot – for a lot of them, it's a daily part of their lives. It's a really wonderful way to impact and make their lives better and make their experience better. Wow. You've really blown me away with that figure. We're living in a time where in the UK, I don't know, a top, top TV show will get, I don't know, 3, 4 million viewers. And you're talking 200 million monthly players. That's just phenomenal, isn't it? But a huge responsibility with that too. It is.

[00:07:44] It is. And I think that's – we're so lucky to have so many designers that are so passionate about this. And I think we're constantly getting these wonderful stories from our players about what a difference that the game makes in their lives too. So I think that really motivates the teams. And, of course, this isn't just about you coming on a podcast, ticking a few boxes and saying the right things.

[00:08:06] Because Candy Crush Soda Saga has already introduced new features that are shaped by the accessibility research and feedback that you've given. And I'd love to shine a light on this because, again, most people won't get to hear about this. So walk me through the thinking behind the updates, how they changed the moment-to-moment experience for players and the kind of feedback that you've got there. Yeah.

[00:08:28] So, you know, as I mentioned before, one of the things that we did is we talked to players and did some research around what actually would make the biggest difference in their lives. And during that research, we did kind of a cross analysis between how intense that would change their experience versus how frequently it would change their experience. And so based off of that, we made a few changes. I mentioned the audio and the flashing effects.

[00:08:57] But one thing that surprised us was that the players often complained about the fact that either their nails were too long or their fingers were too big and they couldn't always see where they were matching. And so we invented a new way for them to hold down the candies. Because in the games, if you haven't played Candy Crush before, what you do is you swap candies to match three or more at a time. And as you do that, the candies disappear and you clear the board.

[00:09:23] So it's really important for players to be able to see what candies they're actually moving. And so this allows them to not only see it, it gets bigger under their finger. But if they decide that they don't want to move it, they can move it back. And it's kind of like in chess, you know, where you have to hold the piece. And if you let it go, then you're done. But if you still have your finger on the chess piece, you can pull it back. It's very similar to that.

[00:09:51] So we've been surprised at how much players have really enjoyed that and how much they say that it makes a difference in their play style. And outside of the technology, another thing that stands out to me is you often talk about the importance of storytelling as a tool for connection. So how does narrative design influence some of those accessibility decisions we're talking about here? And how do you help your teams build worlds that ultimately feel open to every kind of player in any generation?

[00:10:20] I mean, that's that. I always love talking about storytelling, Neil. Like, that's one of my favorite things to talk about. And I think I think one of the things that is amazing about stories, whether it's in games or any other media, is they're kind of a direct line to empathy. Right. When you want to build an empathic link with people, you tell them a story. Right. It's a really good way of doing it.

[00:10:43] And so we use storytelling as a way to better connect with our players, build that empathy, build that understanding. And then also, you know, make very deliberate choices around, you know, what kind of metaphors we're using, for example.

[00:10:59] Because, you know, an intuitive metaphor will actually teach somebody how to play the game where you may, you know, in other cases need to rely on text or something where you have to take somebody very deliberately through. If you choose the right metaphor, if you choose the right theme, it actually seems much more intuitive to individuals. I think also, you know, we mentioned our player base.

[00:11:26] We were really fortunate to be, you know, a very global game and have an incredibly global team. And that also means that the stories that we need to tell are global, right? The game's played on every continent, including Antarctica, we often like to say, which is pretty wild.

[00:11:44] And I think that we have wonderful experts that are helping us not only localize the game for different languages, but globalize the game to make sure that we're telling stories that are relevant to players no matter where they're playing in the world. You know, our company mission is called Make the World Playful. And I've always loved that, right? Because there's something really epic and huge around that.

[00:12:13] But we can't make the world playful if we're not including everybody, right? And so, you know, making sure that everyone can play and making sure that the game's relevant to people everywhere is really important to me. Wow. Not only known for 200 million players around the world, but every continent, including Antarctica. I love the idea of someone sat in some secret base somewhere or some facility just playing Candy Crush.

[00:12:40] I mean, they do a lot of research up at those Antarctic bases and they have to sit and wait for their analysis. So I'm sure they're swiping candies while they're waiting for all of that to be done, right? Yeah, I absolutely love it. But of course, what we're talking about, every continent and 200 million players around the world, strong cultural values, they must be really important into adding into your products. You've got to be incredibly mindful of that. And as I said earlier, the responsibility.

[00:13:09] So what are the behaviors inside the studio that help teams treat accessibility as a shared responsibility rather than just a specialist task for a specialist team? You said a moment ago that you do have teams scattered around the world, so that must help. But anything else you can share around that? Yeah, I mean, we're really lucky to have a very international and inclusive team. And I firmly believe that, you know, you can't have inclusive design without having an inclusive team, right?

[00:13:34] And honestly, like there's so many different, you know, studies and statistics that point to the fact that diverse teams just get better results, right? And one of the things that I've always loved about my time at King, you know, over these past six years is that, you know, when you go into a room, you'll meet people from different countries. When you go to lunch, you hear different languages. Everyone has different perspectives. Some people have a gaming background. Some people have come from other tech companies. Some people have come from other industries.

[00:14:02] And we all bring these unique, unique perspectives and experiences to the design, the design process. And it allows us to co-design and make sure that that inclusive design happens from the very beginning. And I think traditionally, many creative leaders have struggled with balancing their artistic vision with some of the practical constraints that come with that.

[00:14:28] So how do you guide teams through these kind of conversations so that accessibility ultimately becomes a source of the creative process rather than just another point of tension? Any experiences around this? Oh, my gosh. I love this question, Neil. Because I think, you know, I'm a firm believer that constraints actually make the creative process better, right? When you're designing with constraints, you come up with better and creative ideas.

[00:14:53] It's just deciding what you want to prioritize when you're choosing those constraints, right? And I think that inclusive design allows us to make sure that we always have the player in mind first, right? When we do that, the player is the frame in which we're building our experiences. And better understanding of the player allows us to create better experiences for them.

[00:15:20] And so that just starts us off right on the right foot when it comes to the design process. I also think that, you know, teams, I've been really impressed. Like, it's always so fun. I don't know if you experience this done, you know, in your work. But it's always so fun when you give somebody a problem and they come up with ideas that are so much better than anything you would have come up with yourself.

[00:15:40] And that's one of the things I love about my job is because I, you know, I kind of help people understand what the constraints are, help them understand the problems that we're trying to solve and the direction that we're trying to go in. And they come up with all of these amazing, brilliant ideas. And we get to see those come to life through our game. And it really, it's the thing that gets me up every morning. It's one of the things I love best about my job. Absolutely love it.

[00:16:06] And, of course, another problem with serving 200 million people across every single continent is live service games require continual refinement. Downtime is not an option, I would imagine. So how do you gather insights from real player behavior and bring those signals back into the design process to support players with different needs? Again, a lot of challenges that people possibly don't even think about.

[00:16:29] Yeah, I mean, I think live service games are different that way than, you know, I've worked on both types of games, right? The one with live service and then ones where you just, you know, curate the game and they're done. And there's different problems that you're trying to solve. But you're absolutely right, right? We have to regularly keep in contact with our players because our game's been around for more than 10 years. And over those 10 years, player needs have evolved, player tastes have evolved, devices have changed, all of those things.

[00:16:57] And so we use a lot of both qualitative and quantitative data. So we're constantly talking to our players like I talked about before with our UX research groups. And then we also like to take a look at the engagement numbers and see, you know, what are players regularly engaging in with our features or how are they engaging in them? How long are they playing when they play?

[00:17:22] All of these kind of metrics help us better understand, you know, what it is they're doing and why they're doing it, right? We use the quantitative for the what, we use the qualitative for the why, and we combine those to understand, you know, what it is that our players need and try to anticipate those needs and solve their problems as best we can. And if we do have any designers, creative leaders or studios that are maybe early in their accessibility journey and feeling somewhat inspired by the path that you're on here,

[00:17:52] what mindset or first step has the biggest impact on your experience building Candy Crush Soda Saga and so many other well-known IP from your, what, 40 plus titles? Anything you'd learn or anything you'd pass on to anybody at the beginning of that journey? Yeah, absolutely. So first off, I think, you know, a lot of people believe that, you know, accessibility or inclusive design practices have to happen at the end of the design cycle

[00:18:18] and that it's going to take up extra time that they don't have. But one of the things that we've learned and what I've experienced over my time working in games is that, you know, when you start it from the onset, not only do you solve problems in a better way, but you create better designs. And it has to begin with having an inclusive team and having them understand what the needs of the players are. So, you know, one, make sure you have a really interesting group of diverse talent.

[00:18:48] And then two, talk to your players or who you think your players might be. You know, if you're not running a live service game, you know, you need to do your market research and get a great understanding of who your players are, what motivates them and what they might need on a regular basis. And of course, you're talking to me today in Stockholm. We're recording this during the months where it's famously dark. And I'm curious, do you play a lot of games or does your gaming increase during those months? And what are your go-to titles?

[00:19:18] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I definitely play more. For those of you that aren't familiar with how dark it gets in Stockholm, Sweden, it usually, the sun doesn't usually rise until like 839 and it starts setting at 230, but it's also very cloudy. So I don't think I've seen the sun for quite a few days.

[00:19:43] So you need that, you know, you need hobbies and other activities to keep your, keep your, you know, keep your spirits up because I actually get affected by the sunlight or the lack thereof. So yes, I've been playing a ton of games. Obviously, I've been playing our own games. You know, we just had music season. So I was really, really into that. I'm a big fan of Thundercat. And so partnering with him was awesome. And being able to play the music in the game was great.

[00:20:11] But then I've also been playing, you know, a few other titles. I just, I really enjoyed Dispatch recently. I thought that was great. Ghost of Yote, excellent as well. Big fan. What about you, Neil? I see you nodding. Are you like playing games as well? Yeah, 100%. I picked up a PS Portal recently. So I've been playing Ghost of Yotea and Alan Wake 2 is my current job. Oh, nice. Oh, it's a classic. The Alan Wake series is classic.

[00:20:40] Remedy does such a great job with their stories, don't they? Yeah, they really do. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today, sharing your great work. And for people listening that maybe want to carry on this conversation or just keep up to speed with some of the great work you're doing, where would you like to point everyone listening to that? Yeah. Well, first off, if you're interested in inclusive design, I definitely recommend looking up Microsoft and Xbox's resources on this.

[00:21:07] At King, we're a part of the Xbox ecosystem. We're a part of Xbox. And they have amazing resources. And they're available to everyone online. So definitely recommend taking a look at their accessibility toolkit that they have available. If you want to find out more about King, we actually have a great YouTube series that we just started that's basically a set of developer diaries called Crush and Tell. And there's some really fun things.

[00:21:36] We've got people talking about how the fish work, which they're a special candy that kind of swims across the board and eats another candy. Or even talking about some of our features or what it's like working with players. So definitely recommend that. And then if you want to know more about the company in general, you can always check out the King's channels on LinkedIn as well. Awesome. Well, I will add links to everything.

[00:22:02] I'll try and embed one of those videos as well just so people can look at that. But obviously, we could talk about this forever. But I'd love to get you back on next year, see how things are progressing. But more than anything, thank you for joining me today. Yeah, I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. And yeah, I hope you continue to enjoy that PS Portal version of Go See Yote. You'll have to tell me what you think once you finish. I just love this conversation.

[00:22:29] Not just because of the scale of the work that my guest was involved in, but because of the care and intention behind it. And it's so refreshing to hear accessibility discussed as a creative opportunity rather than a constraint or something that's got to be tagged on at the end. But it's something that benefits everyone, not just a subset of users. And I really appreciated the way that she connected storytelling, empathy and design decisions.

[00:22:56] For me personally, I think it's a powerful reminder that technology shapes everyday moments, often in ways that we don't notice as people, as gamers or inside the workplace. We don't notice it unless it's done badly. But when it's done right, we don't notice. It simply feels right. So for everyone listening, I'll add links to the resources and projects we discussed so you can continue the conversation in your own time.

[00:23:24] But if this episode got you thinking differently about design, about creativity and inclusion, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one. I open this out to every single one of you. And if you're listening in Antarctica, please, a special message to you. I need to hear from you too. But I will speak with you all again tomorrow. Remember, get me at techtalksnetwork.com. You can leave me an audio message there from wherever you're listening. And I will speak with you all again bright and early tomorrow. Bye for now. Bye. Bye.