3535: HR at a Crossroads: Performance, Culture, and Technology

[00:00:03] Today, I'm joined by Simon Noble, CEO of Cizanne HR. They are a company delivering cloud-based HR and native payroll software to organisations around the world. If we look at HR, it's spent years pushing for a stronger voice at the executive table, and in many ways, that voice has never been more important than it is today.

[00:00:27] Because between economic pressure, regulatory change, hybrid working, and the growing expectations that employees bring from their personal digital lives into the workplace, I think HR leaders are being asked to balance people, performance, compliance, and culture all at once. All areas that are critical to every organisation.

[00:00:49] So, in this conversation, Simon and I will explore how the role of HR in the C-suite is evolving, where progress has been made, and where HR still struggles to be seen as a true business performance function, rather than just another cost centre. And we'll talk candidly today about the current financial climate and how budget pressure can push organisations backwards, even when leaders know people and culture matter more than ever, which is kind of ironic.

[00:01:18] And yet, we'll also dig into AI, not as a silver bullet, but as a practical tool for removing administrative drag and improving insight to give HR teams the space they need to focus on what humans do best. And he will also share a thoughtful perspective on trust, data responsibility, and why AI should automate admin while amplifying the human side of work, not replacing it.

[00:01:46] So, if you are a HR leader, business leader, or just someone trying to understand how technology, people, and performance can intersect in a changing workplace, this is a timely conversation. Here at the Tech Talks Network, we now have nine podcasts and approaching 4,000 interviews. And that is only possible with some of the great friendships that I've developed over 10 years of podcasting.

[00:02:12] And a company that I'm proud to call friends of the show is Denodo, because not only have they been on this podcast multiple times, they also help make sense of the AI data chaos that we're seeing now. Because the data world is louder than ever. AI hype, lake house complexity, and pressure to deliver more with less. These are things that I talk about every day on this show.

[00:02:32] But Denodo is helping businesses make sense of it all, because they provide a unified data foundation for trustworthy AI, lake house optimization, and data products to finally bring service to life. So, whether you are a CIO or a builder, Denodo helps you activate your data with speed and governance. And their global partner network also helps you accelerate every step of the way.

[00:02:57] So, if you're ready to unlock real outcomes, simply visit Denodo.com today. But now, it's time for today's interview. Let me introduce you to today's guest. So, thank you for joining me on the podcast today, Simon. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? Yeah, I'm Simon Noble. I'm the CEO at Suzanne HR.

[00:03:21] And we build HR and paywall software that helps organizations run the business, the people side of the business. From all the core HR elements to providing insights to help leaders make better decisions. Well, there's so much I want to talk with you about today. Because I think like IT, HR has spent years pushing for a stronger voice at the executive table. And HR software also has a bit of a history for being clunky.

[00:03:51] Thankfully, that is changing now. But from your perspective as CEO, how has HR's role in the C-suite genuinely changed over the last few years? And where is it still struggling to be taken seriously? Is there still a battle going on? Are things improving? What are you experiencing here? I think it's a story of progress rather than a story of we're at the destination, for sure.

[00:04:15] I think the transition is HR is starting to become seen as a business performance function rather than a support or policy-police-based approach or risk or necessary sort of evil in that respect. Organizations where you value their retention, their employees, the leadership and the culture in their business, see them as part of that performance journey as they evolve.

[00:04:45] And where that happens, you see them having a much bigger influence and voice on the board and in the senior exec teams. And I think many organizations say they value people just as much as performance. But in this AI world, I think it is more important than ever. And financial pressure, though, often tells quite a different story. So how is the current economic climate shaping some of the decisions HR leaders are actually able to make right now?

[00:05:16] I think you're right. It's one of those things of it's a nice story. We want to look after our people. We want to make sure that we give people a voice. The culture is important. But when you're in an economic environment where the pressure is on to sometimes stay alive, sometimes, you know, you're competing or, you know, in a very tough market where external pressures are coming at us all over the place.

[00:05:40] The budget was obviously one that came through thick and fast in terms of what's the impact on that. The, you know, the new Employment Bill of Rights in terms of that's come through, again, that's going to have impact. So people are battling all these different things. And eventually, sometimes it does come down to, hang on a minute, is it a cost center or is it a value engine? How do we perceive it?

[00:06:04] And sometimes people can default back to a, okay, we treat it as a cost center, which is not the way to do it. What it should be done is measured on the business outcomes, right, that it can create. And that is around how does it build capability in the organization? How does it increase retention? How does it create a culture that allows for readiness for change? And that change has been happening significantly over the last few years.

[00:06:33] Hybrid working, skill shortages, all of these things need to be managed effectively. And every time you take the reverse step of going back to, oh, it's a cost center, I just need to think about my cost. You take a step back in helping the business move forward. And you do see that happening. Hopefully less so now. But it is definitely something that still happens. And of course, when you talk about things like hybrid working, HR tech is invaluable right now.

[00:07:02] The whole department has been on somewhat of a journey over the last five to 10 years. And Suzanne's trusted HR software is a suite that automates and simplifies almost every aspect of HR from recruitment, applicant tracking, onboarding, and so much more. And so many more core HR admin tasks. And of course, you're leading it through a period of rapid growth and investment. Feels like an exciting time for you guys from the outside looking in.

[00:07:30] But what pressures does that put on HR internally? And what lessons does it all offer other fast-growing businesses out there? Tell me about the story and the kind of year that you've been having. Yeah. From a growth point of view, I've had the privilege of obviously even this business through a sustained period of growth over the last two, three years. I like that term growth. It feels more like chaos with better branding in terms of what happens in a business.

[00:08:00] You're maturing your processes. You're scaling up in areas that are at a pace which is almost unnatural in certain elements. And that's where it becomes really, really important to make sure you recognize who we are and what we're trying to achieve and that purpose of what is the point. And I think we've sort of come around to that thing of we want to be the most loved and trusted HR platform in our space.

[00:08:26] And that plays back to your it's got to be simple for people to use. It's got to be intuitive. It's got to be clean and add value in terms of what they talk about. But it's got to be trusted and people have to trust their payroll. They have to trust they've got to be compliant. And if everything we do is around orientating around how we work to that journey, it helps keep the focus in terms of the business. But you do have to have those things. Are we onboarding people quickly?

[00:08:54] Are we doing the right things when they to get them up and running in their roles? Culture becomes critical because, you know, as you scale and grow, you have that possibility where your culture is going to change and evolve with new people coming into the business.

[00:09:12] But if you want to make sure that how we treat our customers and how we engage our customers stays consistent, we've got to treat our teams and we've got to maintain the culture that made us good in the first place and not lose sight of what that core element was too. So, yes, it's been great. It does bring its own challenges. Our chairman says they're good problems to have, but there's still challenges to solve. So it's an interesting one to do.

[00:09:42] But, yeah, it's been a journey. And I think, you know, that element of, you know, if we look after from a HR perspective of people and do the right things there, they'll look after our customers and make sure we stay true to what we've set out. And as this is a tech podcast, I have to mention AI. It's almost the law now. Mandatory, yeah. And you mentioned trust.

[00:10:07] And I think trust in AI is a big topic right now because, yes, AI is becoming a part of our everyday business conversations. But adoption in HR often remains uneven. I think there's a lot of concerns around trust there, especially considering the serious nature that HR deal with. But what do you think some HR or why do you think some HR teams hesitate? And what risk do they face if ultimately they stand still and be overcautious?

[00:10:39] AI isn't the answer to the HR problems, right, in terms of it's not going to fix everything. Yeah. The core element that we talk about is if you have the right data and the right systems, then that's your safety net. That's your seatbelt in terms of how that operates. And I think getting that foundation has been challenging in HR. They have lots of disparate systems. Some of them are connected. Some of them are not.

[00:11:08] They, you know, it's not always easy to collate and have that in one place. So AI is going to have a real problem dealing with that in its own way. So getting that right and getting that data and the systems right first is your foundation for how you can apply AI. But AI should automate the administration. It shouldn't automate the humanity element of HR, right?

[00:11:36] It's an automate the admin, amplify the human in terms of what you're talking about. So when you think about what drags HR down, it's the administration. It's the tedious elements of it, the questions that you get from the employees that can be often easily answered. There's, you know, processes that are administratively heavy.

[00:11:59] All of this is restricting HR's ability to make that leap to being the business performance function, right? So AI can handle a lot of those, and that frees up HR to be more human, to be more engaged, to deal with the wider opportunities in that kind of way. So it absolutely does have a place, and those HR functions that adopt it will be more effective than those that don't,

[00:12:27] simply because they have more capacity and more capability to actually address some of the more strategic issues rather than handling tactical administration. The cautious element, the trust is, and this is the sort of mentality that we've had, is where do we apply AI capability that's actually going to be meaningful in terms of time-saving and value creation? It can do lots. It can do a lot of different things.

[00:12:55] Sometimes people get overexcited and a bit overambitious with it, but if you boil it down to, you know, how do I improve what we do? How do I get better insight? How do I automate administrative tasks? It can do a lot. So we put stuff into the solution within the wrapper of the product. So it's there to be used at the point that you need to use it in a safe environment that you know it's not going outside and doing anything else.

[00:13:23] And it has access to your data. So from that context, it means you're able to do simple tasks, standard large language, but also gain insights and understand the data that you're looking at to a whole different level because it's in that wrapper, that security wrapper of the system. And it's at the point where you want to use it. You're not having to go outside to another place, which means that, hang on, it doesn't understand the data and the person I'm talking about.

[00:13:51] It doesn't understand the context of my policies. And I don't know if anyone else has access to it from a beyond that system point of view. It keeps it safe. Yeah. And there's always been an emphasis on keeping human in the HR there. And quite rightly so. And as you said, AI can manage so many different things. And I would imagine recording compliance training annually, even different HR processes. It would make life so much easier.

[00:14:18] But as you said, there is a concern that AI could distance HR from the human side of work. So how do you see AI supporting better people decisions rather than replacing judgment and empathy? What kind of role do you see it playing here? So one of the things I do really like, Microsoft call it their co-pilot. And a lot of people use that terminology. And that's a really good analogy of what it is.

[00:14:44] It's not driving the car, but it's helping you navigate in terms of that perspective. It's not going to take the decision off you. It's just going to inform you to make a better one. So when you're looking at, okay, for us, it's how are we hiring people and making them more successful in the businesses, in the functions that they go into? And looking at, well, what makes them more successful? What are the attributes?

[00:15:14] Who stays? Who are performing? And identifying things that we can understand. These are things that me as an individual, I can't remember. I can't remember all that detail. But it gives me some insight and some structure to say, these are the traits I'm looking for from an interviewing process. And what's going to help somebody be more effective in their role? And again, it's going to have a look at their performance appraisals. It's going to look at what training is available to them.

[00:15:41] And it can propose, hey, look, why don't you look at these areas of improvement to help you become more effective in your role? Those kind of things take a lot of time for a human. And they require a lot of data sources to be able to make those recommendations. But they're recommendations.

[00:16:05] AI can't do empathy, right, really, in terms of it's not going to understand context of things that are outside the system in terms of anything personal that's happening. It's not going to understand a lot of things. So all it is doing is making me as a business leader better informed. It's giving me a better insight in terms of what's going to happen. It's giving me recommendations of things I could do. It is not taking away my decision making. It's helping me make a better decision.

[00:16:34] And you're also very fortunate to have the ear of so many different businesses throughout the UK and, indeed, on an international stage, too. So from everything that you're seeing across the UK and your global customers, where is HR effectiveness most being constrained today? By things like budget skills, technology or leadership expectations? When you put all those conversations into one big melting pot, are there any trends there? Yeah.

[00:17:01] I mean, that's a big melting pot of questions to address. Look, when you're making changes in terms of working patterns, when you're making changes in terms of simple stuff like even just minimum wage, when you're looking at tax impacts, those things affect the business. And, you know, what type of people are we able to employ?

[00:17:28] Those people who are thinking about zero hours contracts or unionized and all these things that are coming through from the Bill of Rights. What you're doing is adapting to change. And that is disruptive. And that means a lot of what you're thinking about is how do I become compliant? How do I make sure I conform to these rules? How do I protect the business from that risk? And these, in theory, these are quite negative elements to the businesses.

[00:17:54] You're not looking at it from the view of, okay, how do I help a business improve its performance? How do I make sure that we are developing and retaining our talent in a much more effective way? How do we give that employee experience a boost to enable them to, A, have a better life balance or have more development opportunities within our organizations for their career? Those are the great things to talk about.

[00:18:21] Talking about how I comply to a new government regulation or how I adapt to minimum wage changes or, you know, different tax schemes. That's not helpful. So, for me, there's been a lot of change. There's been a lot of – some of it's good change, right? And that's fine, but it's still things to manage and it's still change to manage. So, I think consistency or stability allows people to just breathe in terms of – and actually start moving forward in a more positive way.

[00:18:51] But, you know, in terms of overall, we do see that, you know, from a market perspective, the number of businesses that are growing has slowed down. We see that the number of open vacancies is reducing. There are more people looking for work from how many people apply for a job as a number of – for the candidates. There are more people per role to assess.

[00:19:22] So, the focus is then about making sure that we retain and develop people more effectively. So, behaviors change in that kind of way. So, you know, hopefully what we'll see is, and, you know, if, like I say, the inflation has potentially dropped, the interest rates may drop a fraction. And this creates an environment which is a bit more stable for businesses to maybe take more risks and grow.

[00:19:49] Maybe in 26 we'll see some of that coming through. And, therefore, people can start working on more positive actions rather than worrying about whether they're just compliant. And from a technical point of view, as payroll and HR systems move further into the cloud, any advice on how HR leaders listening should be thinking about trust, data responsibility, and also transparency with their employees as well? Anything you'd advise around them?

[00:20:22] Transparency is a big one in terms of what's coming through. You know, there's a lot of talk about pay transparency at the moment in terms of making sure, you know, if you're advertising roles, should we be telling people what the salary is? If we're doing that, then you have to have consistency in salary within your own organization. And people need to have – and that requires a level of business maturity to do that.

[00:20:47] You know, it certainly would highlight any imbalance or unfairness across an organization, and so you've got to address those things. That's certainly on the path at the moment in terms of where, you know, from a performance and a compensation review process is going to help you move forward and get that maturity in your business quicker. The data piece we started on that, right, in terms of –

[00:21:14] and I think the phrase is, you know, you can't AI your way out of bad data, right? You've got to have sound data, sound systems and processes for AI to be able to support you. You know, it's trust, you know, from a point of view. That is the currency of HR, right? You have to be able to trust where, you know, what we're dealing with, that we are compliant,

[00:21:41] that we're dealing with people in the right way and in the best way possible, that my data and the information that I have is right. And that's why we go back to when we want to be the most loved and trusted. And that requires, you know, your data to be clear and clean and transparent. And you can't do that without consolidated systems. 100%. And in the workplace and indeed in our personal lives,

[00:22:07] technology is changing our expectations and changing everything. And there's an old saying that the last best experience we have anywhere becomes that standard expectation we expect to see everywhere. So as we look ahead, what mindset shift do HR leaders need to make if they want to influence real business outcomes rather than just simply responding to that change that people expect sometimes?

[00:22:33] So there's an element here, which is to have a seat at the table, so to speak, you have to talk the same language as, you know, the C-suite or the exec suite in terms of what they do. So understanding the business, what it's trying to achieve, the blockers or barriers that it's experiencing in achieving that

[00:22:56] and how HR can impact that, that journey is really critical for HR to understand. Where do I add value? Where do I create? And I'll go back again to sort of, you know, HR should be thinking of itself as a business performance function. And therefore, how do we enable the business to achieve its potential?

[00:23:23] When you start thinking like that and you start talking from that perspective to an exec team or a board, that becomes part of the strategy. That becomes, it's no longer a cost. It's a, you know, we are going to do these things to improve performance. We are going to, you know, all of those elements that we've just spoken about in terms of getting the right people, getting them effective and productive, enabling an environment where they can perform, thrive in the workspace.

[00:23:52] All of those things, you know, should be and are talked about at a strategic level. Well, sometimes without HR in the room, which is kind of a crime, but HR also need to be able to go, I understand the strategy of the business, its barriers and how I can impact that and how I can help them achieve it. And when you're talking in that narrative, they'll be heard and can challenge in a constructive way.

[00:24:22] And I think that is a perfect moment to end on. But before I let you go, I think many people listening will be interested in HR tech, the journey that you've been on. They want to find out more information about this growth period that you're going through and also the HR technology, smart, cost-effective, cloud HR, native payroll software, etc. Where's the best place to send everyone listening that your words may have resonated with today?

[00:24:48] So the easiest place is our website, which is suzannehr.com. There's a lot of stuff, resources. We put a lot of material on there to support the HR people in the role that they do and offer guidance and stuff. We also, a lot of us are active on LinkedIn. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. I post and write a number of different things to try and support HR.

[00:25:14] We do take an active role in trying to promote and support HR as a profession and try and elevate the HR within the workplace. And there's a lot of material that we try and do to support people who are trying to do that. But yeah, if you want to get in touch or contact us, either through LinkedIn or go to the website, suzannehr.com. And there's lots of contact options there as well to see the product or just get in touch. Awesome.

[00:25:42] Well, I'll add a link to the website and your LinkedIn. I do urge people to check that out, especially because we've covered so much today. HR's place in the C-suite. It's continued evolution, the challenges that are being faced, the role of technology, AI, and how teams, businesses and professionals who fail to embrace it could risk missing out on some of the offers. But also, I think you're guiding the company through this period of huge growth and investment right now.

[00:26:08] Certainly one I'm going to be watching in 2026, maybe get you back on later next year. But more than anything, thank you for joining me today. Thanks, Neil. I think Simon articulated something that many organisations are wrestling with right now. HR only earns its seat at the table when it speaks the language of business outcomes, not just policies and processes. And framing HR as a business performance function rather than just a support function,

[00:26:36] this feels like a real mindset shift, one that will define the next chapter of the HR profession. And I also appreciated his balanced take on AI, not rushing towards it for the sake of novelty on the next shiny thing, but being very clear about where it adds values, where trust and data foundations matter most, and why technology should give HR more time to be human, not less.

[00:27:03] So again, thank you to Simon for joining me today and sharing such an honest perspective on leadership growth and the future of HR. And for everyone listening, thank you for tuning in to another episode. And as financial pressure and employee expectations inevitably continue to collide inside your own organisation, maybe ask yourself, is HR being treated as a cost to manage or as a capability that drives performance and resilience?

[00:27:33] Over to you. I want to hear your thoughts on that one. Techblogwriteroutlook.com, techtalksnetwork.com. You'll find 4,000 interviews and even ways to leave me an audio message and how you can work with me. But that is it for today. Lots for you to think about. I'm going to go prepare for my next guest, but I'll be back again real soon. And hopefully I'll speak with you all then. Bye for now. Bye. Bye.