How Equifax Connects AI Data and Human Support in Government Services

[00:00:04] What if public services are becoming one of the most interesting places to watch technology modernization in action? Well, my guest today is Dave Turner, Senior Vice President and General Manager for Government Solutions at Equifax. Now, Dave is someone that works with federal, state, local and social services agencies across the US,

[00:00:27] ultimately helping them use data, verification and automation to improve how services are delivered to people who need support. But I love busting myths on this show, and today I want to challenge a familiar assumption that the public sector tech is always moving slowly and sluggishly behind, playing catch-up. Because my guest today will share why many social services teams are embracing modernization with real urgency,

[00:00:53] and why caseworkers are often far more open to new tools than outsiders might expect. So we will discuss how automation has moved beyond simple data entry and into helping agencies reduce manual work and identify circumstances faster, giving caseworkers more time to focus on people rather than paperwork. And we'll also talk about the changing nature of work.

[00:01:19] With gig economy income to multiple revenue streams and side hustles, and how all this is making eligibility verification far more complex. And why tech is being used to offer a fuller and more accurate picture of someone's circumstances, so they can make those decisions quicker. And yet, it is a tech podcast. We'll look at the role of AI and data, from helping people stay on path towards financial stability,

[00:01:44] or giving public service teams better insight into where support might be needed before a crisis develops. So, whether you work in technology, government, public sector, or simply just care about how public systems can better serve people, this episode hopes to give you a more thoughtful look at where modernization is already making a difference. So, with that scene set, let me introduce you to Dave right now. Dave Turner

[00:02:11] So, thank you for joining me on the podcast today. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? Yeah, yeah. So, thank you, Neil. So, my name is Dave Turner, and I'm a Senior Vice President and General Manager for Equifax's Government Solutions Business. You might wonder what that is. So, it's the solutions that we provide to the U.S. federal government, as well as the state governments in the United States, and also local governments, city, counties, housing authorities. So, I'm responsible for that business.

[00:02:41] I've been here for just under a year, and really our focus at the moment is providing assistance to social services agencies in the United States. Obviously, each of our customers are important, but there's a lot of movement going on in that space right now. And so, we're very focused on that. We've been in this market for quite a while. Obviously, there are newcomers from a technology perspective, but we've been working with these folks for decades and have been focused on their mission.

[00:03:09] And so, it's very interesting watching it evolve in the very recent times. And it does feel like an exciting space at the moment, although we do largely think of the private sector when talking about technology and innovation. And I don't want to trigger you here, David, but I think when most people think about innovation in government services, they might be thinking about slow-moving legacy systems. But that's one of the reasons I invited you on here today,

[00:03:36] because your research actually found that every respondent expects efficiency to improve in the next 12 months alone. So, what is driving that optimism, and what are these agencies seeing that maybe the rest of us are not seeing or missing or just unaware of? Yeah. So, what we find, Neil, and having worked with this community of folks, is they are eternally optimistic. I will tell you that. You know, they face ups and downs in the economy.

[00:04:04] They face ups and downs in legislative mandates. So, it's a group of folks that are highly focused on their mission, but they're eternally optimistic. The other thing is, is that when they are presented with modernization opportunities, they're so thirsty for those that they really grab on. The resistance just isn't there, and they figure out how to make their lives better, and those of the beneficiaries,

[00:04:31] with such entrepreneurship and innovation that it's shocking. I remember early in my career, I was actually working implementing a child support enforcement system, in the early 2000s. And, Neil, that system was in COBOL, which is a little bit behind the times for the early 2000s, right? But these folks were given these automation tools for the very first time. And they did more with those tools than you might see in the private sector,

[00:04:59] primarily because they're just so entrepreneurial and hungry for those innovations. So, it's really less about what they have available, and more about what they're able to do with it, because they're so focused and they're so expert in what they're trying to accomplish. And what we've seen over the last two or three years is really an influx of additional technology solutions. So, integrated eligibility systems that can assist them,

[00:05:28] data solutions like the things that we do here at Equifax. And so, they are really kind of coming from behind from a technology perspective. And in some instances, catching up with the private sector, which is just great to see. And just a group of folks that really deserve that technology, the tool set that they have. And when we talk about automation, I think it's something that we've all discussed for many, many years. But your survey suggests that it is now actually having a very real impact

[00:05:57] on day-to-day operations. And I'm not sure how much you can share with me here, but are you able to share any examples of how automation is helping caseworkers spend maybe less time on admin tasks and more time actually helping people? Yeah, absolutely. And we've got some really good examples here. And it's interesting, when you talk about automation, that means a certain thing to people. But in the social services area, automation, it used to just be data collection. When people used the term automation,

[00:06:24] all it meant was that folks could electronically enter information. But it's really moved beyond that. And I'll give you a couple examples. When Equifax first interacted with the social services community, we used to have a portal that folks could use, and they would manually type in information. And that was just three or four years ago. Now, that still exists. But what our customers have moved forward to is an integrated connection with our data sources

[00:06:51] so that all of that happens in the back end. So you can imagine that manual process being taken away and replaced with an automated search stream that presents them real-time results when they need it. Another fantastic example is a new product that we rolled out called Continuous Evaluation. Now, you can imagine that if you are responsible for a certain case load, that case load's not static. Things change. People move.

[00:07:21] Income sources change. It's a very dynamic population, just as it is with the entire population. But one of the things that we did is we implemented an automated solution that looks for changes in circumstances. So what it will do is it will tell the caseworker that of your 100 cases, as an example, here are the 12 that had changes. So imagine that. You're a caseworker, and you move from the needle in the haystack phenomenon,

[00:07:50] which I wonder which ones I should focus on, to let's start with these 12, because I have verified data that's actually telling me that some circumstance changed. Let me look into that, and let me prioritize my time in that regard. One of the things that we did, Neil, back to my point about the population not being static, is that we looked at a population of beneficiaries over a period of 12 months,

[00:08:17] and 40% of those folks moved in and out of eligibility at least twice during the course of a year, which I found fascinating. That's quite a lot of movement. It's a very dynamic population. And actually only 13% in our study of those beneficiaries remained kind of below that income eligibility line the entire period of time. So being able to see the movement of people

[00:08:45] and their circumstances really does help the caseworkers and kind of drives that automation. You're also dealing with a group of folks with their integrated eligibility systems. Those systems touch so many other systems. Sometimes people think of it as a standalone solution, but even a modern integrated eligibility system, it could have external interfaces that go out and touch

[00:09:12] 30 to 80 different systems outside of its own. So you can imagine that, what that looks like and all those connections. And you're also somewhat limited by the lowest common denominator, because if there is a non-modernized system that you're trying to go get information from, you might not get it back as quickly as you might otherwise. So it's just a very interesting thing. We've seen a lot of movement in the area of automation. It's been the last 12 months.

[00:09:40] And many listeners might be surprised here that the public sector teams are embracing technology so enthusiastically, especially at a time where there is so much pessimism and resistance to change we're seeing in the private sector. I mean, you've already said that they are already eternal optimists. Now we're adding enthusiasm to the mix. And this next question is usually asked the other way around. But I mean, what lessons can the private sector organizations learn

[00:10:08] from the way government agencies are approaching modernization? Because it seems this time around, maybe the private sector can learn something from the public. Yeah, we actually implemented a program, Neil, that we call the Day in the Life. We call it the Day in the Life program here at Equifax. And here's what it is designed to do. We know that we don't have all the answers. I have been working with these folks for 30 years. And I promise you, when I walk into a meeting with these folks, it is with the utmost humility

[00:10:38] because I'm going to have more questions than answers. And I always learn in that environment. So in our Day in the Life program, we actually go out into the field and we sit down with these caseworkers and we understand what their processes are, what their policy limitations are, what their information constraints are. And we try and understand how they do their work so that we can fashion solutions

[00:11:04] that can actually help them and not become a burden. And so one of the things that we've seen is that they have an opportunity to kind of share feedback. And the good news is with these organizations is even at the executive level, it is frequently folks that have actually done the job. These folks are typically in the organizations for a long period of time. And what happens is you have decision makers in these agencies that have walked in the shoes of some of these caseworkers

[00:11:34] and they maintain those ties. So the linkage between leadership and senior level decisions and the folks in the field is tighter, I think, than it is in the private sector. And as a result, they're able to have those communications, those discussions, and help to drive what it is they're going to be using in their day-to-day job. And one of the biggest challenges facing social service agencies, whether it be in the UK, the US, or anywhere in the world,

[00:12:04] is that ability to verify eligibility quickly and most importantly, accurately. So how are data integration and verification technologies, how are these helping agencies make better decisions while also reducing delays for applicants? Because that's where it really matters, right? Yeah. Well, I think what you find is anytime you can introduce instant data or automated processes, you can allow the process to continue. Some of these interactions, they might occur face-to-face,

[00:12:32] they might occur online via a chat, but as soon as you introduce a pause or a break or, hey, I need to go find a document, that's when things slow down. So the instant information is so important. The interfaces with the other systems, and a big one is income. And that's one of the things that Equifax is really proud of is that we're able to provide that income information real-time,

[00:12:59] sub-second returns on income information so that that process can continue. Because if you take a process that might take 30 days, and if you have manual pauses, if you have 10 of them, it's going to slow it down. If you have two or three, you might be able to get done in half a time. So that's really what we're focused on is trying to remove that friction from the process and embrace the fact that both the applicants and the caseworkers are so much more comfortable with technology

[00:13:29] than they were even five years ago. And of course, if we throw into the mix the rise of the gig economy, freelancing, multiple streams of income with people juggling full-time work and a side hustle, all these things make people's financial situations far more complex than they were a decade ago. So how are agencies adapting to that new reality? And what role does tech play in understanding more of a complete picture of an applicant's circumstances?

[00:13:58] Well, and that's one of the things too, is being able to provide that complete picture. It is the first thing that folks typically mention when I have conversations is how do I get access to some of this non-traditional income streams? And I can tell you that the percentage of that is really increasing quickly. I liken it to a, people talk about AI in the industrial revolution. You frequently see analogies there. I actually view this gig economy phenomenon as something similar

[00:14:27] to pensions. You know, 30 years ago in the US, pensions were much more ubiquitous. Folks could rely on them. And then they kind of started to fade away. Well, W-2 jobs and 401ks, et cetera, were predominant 10 years ago even. But that is also starting to change. So I believe that this move toward the gig economy is a permanent shift. And I believe that being able to tap into these data sources is vitally important.

[00:14:56] Because without that, we're going to be going backward toward paper. And so that's one of the things that we are very focused on is getting access to that information so that we can provide it to these social services agencies so they can, again, continue the process. These applicants really want to be able to present their complete income picture and all the other data elements so that they can proceed through the process. And to the extent that could be provided electronically and instant,

[00:15:25] people can kind of proceed with the process much more quickly. And government agencies all around the world, they face competitive pressures such as rising demand, staffing shortages, policy changes, budget constraints. This is a global problem in the public sector. But in the US, when you work with federal, state, local agencies, etc., where are you seeing the biggest opportunities for technology to make a real measurable difference? Yeah. I think one of the things,

[00:15:55] one of the misconceptions folks have with government mandates is that they all must be completely and perfectly fulfilled. Governments face the same challenges the private sector folks do is, A, you have to make choices. What are you going to do exceptionally well and what are you going to do and be compliant? And one of the things that I have absolutely seen is that the investment in technology

[00:16:24] and data is something that folks see as being able to kind of check more boxes and make more overall progress. These governments have tight budget pressures right now and they're forced to make some choices. But an investment in technology and investment in data helps to speed the process along and makes everybody be in a better situation moving forward. So, it's not unlike the private sector that's forced

[00:16:54] to make choices. It's just sometimes those choices are a little bit more nuanced. Sometimes they have to deal with legislative mandates and things like that. But, just like with the private sector, they're always being asked to do more with less. And in my opinion, they're doing a great job of filling that. And Equifax is a company that sits right at the intersection of data, analytics, and public services. So, if we look ahead for the rest of the year and even having one eye

[00:17:23] almost on 2027, which seems crazy saying that out loud, are there any emerging technologies that you think will have the greatest impact on how government agents will continue to operate and improve how they deliver their services? Well, governments across the board are really, they're diving into the AI piece. You know, they are. And I think that folks a few years ago thought that governments would be laggards. I'm seeing that they're not. They're really applying AI. They've gone through the policy process to allow it

[00:17:53] in their environments, et cetera. And I think that the combination of AI and data could unlock some things that are not being done as automated today as they could be. And let me give you an example. So, the goal of the social services safety net is to address people's needs at the moment and then hopefully have them move out of the program and on to successful lucrative lives. Well, one of the things that we have thought about is what happens

[00:18:23] after they leave the program? And could we offer beneficiaries some sort of a monitoring service so that we, with our data and the addition of AI, could look for some leading indicators that might spell trouble for them in the future so that other services can be offered to them to try and keep them on that path to self-sufficiency? You can think about church groups. You can think about food banks. You can think about community services that could proactively

[00:18:53] be delivered to this population so that they could continue to have enriched economic lives. And that's one of the things that's not being done today. But I do think that the combination of data and AI could provide that service to kind of help folks stay on their feet and have productive economic lives. AI agents are only as strong as the data that they're given. When provided with an outdated data set, your agents could end up doing more harm

[00:19:22] than good. But not with Denodo. With an AI data layer built within your platform, your agents are provided with real-time data changes. So with Denodo, your agents can finally make the right business decisions. Simply visit denodo.com to learn more. And there's often concerns that automation could replace human roles. It's something that we see on our news feeds a lot. And despite that, 95% of workers in your survey

[00:19:52] believe it will actually free them to focus on some of that high-value work that they never get round to. So what does the ideal partnership between people and technology, what does that look like in public services, and how close are you to achieving it? Yeah, I think in the public services space, Neil, one of the things that our survey also indicated is that there was a focus for both folks with a lot of experience and newer people in the industry, that they believed that being able

[00:20:21] to spend more time with the applicants would help everybody, both the caseworkers and the applicants. They also felt that having a dedicated caseload would be beneficial. And that's because they know that it's less about the technology, it's less about the AI, it's about the person. And so to the extent you can improve and increase the time that these expert caseworkers spend with the person,

[00:20:51] that's where you get the benefit in being able to do that. And so they're very excited about that opportunity. They no longer have to spend as much time perhaps on case notes, those can be recorded electronically, digitized, and added to the case file, but they can really understand that person's circumstance and then understand the myriad of services that are available to them to help them get back on their feet. And although today we are talking around public services in the US,

[00:21:20] we have an international audience here and I'm convinced that this exact same problem and everything we're talking about exists all around the world. I can certainly resonate with everything that you're saying and things that are all perceptions I might have about public services in this country. So if we have people listening anywhere in the world maybe a little bit behind the journey that you're on, any advice that you would offer on the difference it can make, where they should start? You probably get all these questions all the time, but I'm curious for those people listening,

[00:21:50] anything you'd offer? What I would say to those folks, Neil, is first of all, social services globally has a common thread. When we have conferences here in the United States, there are very frequently international participants that are both there and also present. So it is absolutely a common thread across the globe. And all I would say is never doubt the ability of these folks, the case workers,

[00:22:19] to know how to best serve their constituents. And once you take that into account, you can apply technology to that. And also, don't count out technology. Don't say, well, this won't work here because. That's usually a path that ends up with a stop sign that's probably not the right way. I have seen things recently, and we've talked about some of them today, that I did not think possible five years ago. And I've been in this business for 30 years.

[00:22:49] I've seen a lot. But the resistance isn't there. They embrace it. And the technology is really, the technology companies are investing to try and serve this population because they realize how important it is. Well, for everyone listening, I will post a link to the survey that we've referenced today so people can check that out. It'll be in the show notes and also be over on my website techtalksnetwork.com. But for anyone that's wanted to dig a little bit deeper, connect with you, your team, more about what Equifax are

[00:23:18] doing, where would you like me to point everyone listening? So, Neil, folks can just go to equifax.com slash social services and they can find out all the information, including the study, about what we're doing and what the social services community is doing to try and improve people's lives. Fantastic. Well, again, I'll have links to absolutely everything there. And I think it's such an important message that you've delivered today on how automation has moved beyond buzzwords into day-to-day operational support,

[00:23:48] with 95% saying it will free time for higher-value human-centered work. Huge figure there in your survey. And also interesting how data integration, verification tools, all helping agencies to adapt to more complex applicant profiles, including individuals with multiple income streams. The world has changed so much now, and I would challenge everyone listening, if anything's resonated with you today, please reach out to David on LinkedIn or myself at Tech Talks Network. We'd love to keep this conversation going,

[00:24:18] but thank you for bringing it all to life today, Dan. Thank you very much, Neil. Really appreciate being able to tell the stories of the folks in the field. One of the big highlights for me from this conversation today was Dave's respect for the people working on the front line. It's easy to talk about automation, data and AI as abstract technology trends, but Dave kept bringing the conversation back to case workers, applicants, and the human moments where better information can reduce delays

[00:24:47] and improve outcomes. And I was particularly interested in his point that public sector teams are often deeply receptive to modernisation because they understand the work, the constraints, and the people they're trying to help. Spend time with people doing that work, understand the process from their perspective, then build the technology that removes friction rather than adding to it. That seemed to be the real secret source here. And perhaps the biggest message of all was that automation in public services should give people more time

[00:25:16] for human work rather than removing the human element. Get it right. Tech can help those workers spend less time searching for information and more time supporting people through very complex situations. But as always, love to hear what you think. Where do you see the biggest opportunity for data, automation and AI to improve public services wherever you are listening in the world? And how will you make sure that these tools strengthen the human side of

[00:25:46] support rather than weaken it? And I think that is an incredibly important point too. So, techtalksnetwork.com let me know your thoughts on this one. I'll be back again tomorrow with another guest. But thanks for listening. Bye for now.