How InfoScale Is Redefining Enterprise Resilience In A Multi-Cloud World

[00:00:04] Have you ever noticed how resilience only becomes a board-level conversation when something breaks? A ransomware attack, a cloud outage, or even a simple performance dip that quietly turns into customer churn? Well, in today's episode of Tech Talks Daily, I'm really excited to be speaking with Joee and Cassie from a company called InfoScale. I should have met them on the recent IT press tour, but unfortunately I couldn't make it.

[00:00:32] But through the wonders of technology, we're able to sit down today and talk about what real resilience looks like in 2026. It's a time where enterprises are juggling hybrid and multi-cloud complexity, but also they have rising regulatory scrutiny, AI-driven workloads that stretch infrastructure in so many ways that teams couldn't possibly plan for. So today we're going to bring it back.

[00:00:58] We're going to talk about why backup and replication alone can create somewhat of a false sense of security, and why context at the application layer matters more than anything. And yet, we'll also discuss why resilience is shifting from a reactive playbook to something closer to real-time operational intelligence. But we'll also have a bit of fun along the way. We'll talk about the unexpected side of disruption.

[00:01:27] And by that, I mean everything from snowstorms to bats in racks and the kind of lottery win that can wipe out an entire IT team overnight. Intrigued? I was hoping you'd say that. Resilience is so much more than technology. So let's bring it all to life today by officially introducing you to Joe and Cassie right now. So thank you for joining me on the podcast today. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:01:57] Well, Neil, thanks for having me on the show. My name is Joe DiAngelo. I lead the product management team at InfoScale, now a division of the Cloud Software Group. I've been with the company throughout a course of some name changes over the last 15 years, since 2011, starting with Symantec. And then we transitioned to Veritas. From Veritas, we transitioned to Arctera. From Arctera, we transition now to InfoScale. And interestingly enough, my job role hasn't really changed all that dramatically over those 15 years.

[00:02:25] I have been consistently working with our enterprise customers, helping to sort of evangelize and champion all the capabilities that InfoScale has around disaster recovery, high availability, software-defined storage, and now cyber resiliency and autonomous resiliency. So it's been quite a ride over these last few months as we've transitioned into CSG. But I like to say that the message that we're carrying across in my role hasn't changed, even though the email address maybe has three or four times in that period.

[00:02:54] Yeah, I've loved watching you guys evolve in that time. And after nearly, if we go right back to the beginning, what, nearly four decades of operating under different corporate parents and restructures. Fast forward to 2026. Here we are now. What is the core mission of InfoScale today? And how would you describe its role in the modern enterprise IT? Well, I'll say this much. I like to say that the core mission hasn't really changed, per se, because I think the outcomes that our customers are looking for from resiliency and high availability,

[00:03:23] disaster recovery, those core capabilities, that has not changed. Maybe some of the threats that are facing customers' environments, be it ransomware, malware, cyber resiliency, and cyber threats, those have changed. But at the end of the day, ensuring that their mission-critical applications, those mission-critical services remain available, they remain performant, they remain durable and robust in the face of so many of these different attack surfaces. That continues to be the challenge.

[00:03:52] And for us, it's ensuring that they meet those expectations head-on, but also that we attach to and we understand that the business objectives that our customers have are also very key. These could be things like increasing productivity, increasing their own revenue stake, and decreasing their cost, managing their risk, and ensuring that they themselves can be competitive in their own markets. Those remain the same, regardless of what the parent company name may be.

[00:04:18] Yeah, and I love that, how we think that so much has changed, and yet so little has changed at the same time. And Cassie, a big thank you for joining me on the podcast too with Jo today. Tell me a little bit more about InfoScale and what you're doing at the moment. Yeah, it's great to be on. So I sit in the product marketing role alongside Jo, and it's been amazing to see the history of InfoScale, but more importantly, the direction of where they're going.

[00:04:41] And this concept of real-time protection and operational resilience that InfoScale is now pioneering. So that's this concept of replacing your reactive IT risk mitigation strategies with a brand new framework to protect in real time, to anticipate disruptions, attacks, any type of outage, really without the ability to bring down your environment or to compromise your data.

[00:05:10] And it's so exciting to see how that is changing traditional backup and recovery strategies, but also simplifying operations in general for enterprise customers across the board, no matter where they want to run, what applications they're using, or really what AI technology they're looking to grasp in the future. I love busting myths and misconceptions on here.

[00:05:34] And there will be many leaders from organizations that believe that when they hear a word like resilience, they think, hey, we've got that covered because we run backups and replication. But where does that assumption break down in the real world, multi-cloud and multi-platform environments? Because you must get to hear stories like this a lot. All the time. I mean, you almost answered the question in the question, right?

[00:05:56] It breaks down when you start getting into these incredibly diverse and heterogeneous environments where the expectations of SLAs and RPOs and RTOs and all the alphabet soup of things that are necessary for a customer's environment really become essential. And where that really, really is focused in on is at the application layer. Being able to understand how the constituent workloads inside of a customer's environment behave, what are the requirements for that, both upstream and downstream? And by that, I mean the relationships that those applications have.

[00:06:25] A backup environment is really great about protecting data, but it doesn't really address the need of your applications and the services that consume that data. And replication is really just a fancy way of moving bits of data from point A to point B, which has no context for what that data actually is. What we do is actually put context to it. It's a contextual awareness. We make it so that we're recovering not just an application or a service, but rather your business and your enterprise. The thing that actually matters at the end of the day.

[00:06:53] And we give, again, a context to it so that you can control and automate and orchestrate that in a way that aligns to the business objectives that you have. So just to bring to life some of what you're talking about there, especially for the business leaders listening, how does your platform move beyond point solutions and instead start to almost orchestrate recovery across applications, data storage, and infrastructure as a single coordinated system, right?

[00:07:47] It is, in fact. It's not a single thing or CRM system that needs to be recovered, but that could be a multitude of different applications, a multiple different storage providers. We actually give you a platform that allows you to interconnect all of those, monitor those in real time, ensure that regardless of the threat that faces that application, whether it's infrastructure, catastrophic weather, you know, a cyber threat, or any other different, you know, as yet to be experienced outage and threats that customers have. And believe me, I have seen it all.

[00:08:17] I have witnessed it all. I have seen threats that come from every walk of life. I've seen animals in data centers chewing on cables. I've seen bats nesting inside of racks. I've seen entire IT staffs walk out the front door because they won the lottery and then there's nobody to manage the environment. I witnessed that firsthand, you know, $300 million jackpot. And by Monday morning, they're all gone. Well, that's a disaster, right? And our technology actually helps to mitigate that.

[00:08:41] So whether it's a personnel issue that's derived from the pandemic and access to your services, or whether it's an infrastructure fault or all points in between, that's really where we've, you know, we've been focused on. I almost feel like that could be a book for you there. Bats, rats, and lottery winners. Bats, rats, and lottery. How to insulate your enterprise from the threats every day. That's actually great. Bats, rats, and lottery. I like it.

[00:09:05] And before you join me on the podcast today, I was reading how you often talk about resilience as the operating system layer. And for the non-techies listening, why is that architectural position so important, especially when enterprises are dealing with everything from VMware, Kubernetes, public cloud, even legacy Unix systems all at once? Sure.

[00:09:24] Well, the reason why we say it's so important to understand at the operating system level is because that's where, you know, that's where everything is so, you know, germane to a customer's enterprise and to their business, where the rubber meets the road. It's where your applications are actually providing that service out to your customers. It's where your data is being referenced. And so many of these environments and the point solutions that are associated with them do not have that visibility. It's almost like a blind spot. And for us, we've been wanting to break down those blind spots.

[00:09:51] We wanted to be able to associate the health of that application, both from a performance standpoint and from a resiliency standpoint, because we understand that an outage can come in many different forms, as we were just saying, right? Something that's catastrophic. But what if an application is underperforming? Most people wouldn't immediately think, well, is that an outage? And I'm like, well, if you can't keep up with the demands of your consumers and your customers, then it might as well be an offline. A brownout can be just as bad as a blackout, in some cases worse because it's harder to troubleshoot.

[00:10:20] But if you have no visibility into the constituent applications running in those virtual environments, then you can't really address the needs of that application from a resiliency standpoint across the board. So whether it's a ransomware attack, a poor performing application, or some interdependency that's being lost, all of that is critical. And it's really only achievable when you have visibility inside the operating system. Otherwise, it's pretty much, you know, elusive.

[00:10:45] And Cassie, I'd also like to ask, because I know you speak to a lot of customers around the world right now. If you were to put all those conversations that you're having with people around the world into one melting pot, what's the kind of things that they're asking for your help with at the moment? Are there any clear themes there? Maybe AI's in there somewhere. I don't want to put words in your mouth. But what are people coming to you and talking to you about and asking at the moment? It's interesting because all of them have a different entry point.

[00:11:10] And what I mean is a different challenge or disruption that they're trying to overcome. You know, there's regulatory pressures like DORA, but also there's things like cyber attacks that every day they're battling. And the challenge that leaders are now finding is, you know, how do I shift from just protecting the environment to being able to operate through whatever disruption comes?

[00:11:34] And when you shift from, again, that reactive model of protect, detect, respond to one that's autonomously adapting and continuously getting better and improving over time, you open up a new capability within your operations team. And it delivers completely different outcomes for these customers. So we really abstract the conversation away from how it works to, more importantly, what it's delivering for these enterprise IT leaders.

[00:12:00] So when we shift things from, you know, let's look at high availability and an isolated, you know, tactic to how do we deliver zero downtime and zero data loss? And how do we continuously scale this? That's a game changer. And this is where we're partnering to completely customize resiliency strategies in real time that, you know, tackle some of the largest enterprise environments around the globe. You know, I may add something that comments.

[00:12:29] I think the other piece to this is that never more so than now, IT investments have to have a clear line of sight to generating revenue. Right. It used to be that IT investments were sort of a necessary evil. It's like everybody just, you know, they want to, you know, go to the digital transformation where everything had to basically become electronic by just sheer virtue of the fact that that that's the way that the world was moving. But that's changing now. It no longer can be seen as a cost center. It has to actually drive revenue.

[00:12:58] And that with that comes an increased dependency on the, on these assets and increased dependency on these services and a greater focus on the efficiency and the, and how effective they are at delivering on these new services and applications. So time to market competitive differentiation, you know, very little risk for downtime and, and, and, and, you know, ransomware and threats. These are all business challenges, right? And they're driving so much of the technology decision.

[00:13:24] So our, our goal has been to create a way to sort of, you know, establish a dotted line across those. Everybody can talk about technology and bits and bytes and faster this and bigger this. And, and, and, and, you know, you know, that's fine and good. And, and it's part of the conversation, but at the end of the day, what's changing are the outcomes. It's not, I need a, you know, I need more storage.

[00:13:46] No, it's, I want to grow my business so that I can increase the number of customers who are, you know, securing their information with me as a, as a service provider, whatever that may be. That then requires a variety of technology investments. And we're helping to kind of create a bridge between those two conversations. And as we said at the very beginning of our conversation, so much has changed. So much hasn't. Ransomware, that is the big thing that keeps most CEOs awake at night or CISOs.

[00:14:12] So in practical terms, what happens differently during one of those infamous ransomware attacks or major cloud outages, maybe when your tech is in place compared to when it's not, would you say? Yeah. I mean, that's, that is precisely the thing that's keeping CISOs and CTOs up at night. And that's because a ransomware attack doesn't discriminate about the infrastructure. It doesn't care what your storage provider is. It doesn't care about your operating system. It doesn't care about whether your data center is in a floodplain or on a fault line. It doesn't care.

[00:14:39] All of those infrastructure challenges, you know, there are point solutions to address those, but they don't address the ransomware challenge. But if you look at ransomware and malware and cyber threats head on, what you get implicitly are all those infrastructure improvements. So those infrastructure resiliency measures. And in the event that you have an actual ransomware attack or some sort of penetration, what we have is the ability to recover to a point in time, a mutable snapshot, which effectively can be scanned and verified and also be application consistent.

[00:15:08] So we know that those recovery points are healthy. We know that those recovery points cannot be in any way adulterated after they have been taken. And they can be used on your primary data, which is a way to help accelerate recovery in environments where if all you had was, say, like a backup image, that typically can have an RTO or RPO of, you know, 24 hours or more. And an RTO that could extend well into days, depending on the size of the data set.

[00:15:32] So for us, it's about ensuring that you have visibility into all those threats, but also a means to recover rapidly and efficiently within those, you know, within the confines of your data center. And when you extend that to say a cloud outage, that sort of builds off of that same notion of, you know, what's the visibility for cloud components and cloud utilities to have to your application. And one of the key elements of a successful cloud deployment is being able to adhere to the shared responsibility model.

[00:15:59] And that basically mandates that as a consumer, as the constituent in the cloud, you are responsible for the resiliency in the cloud, while the CSP provider, that hyperscaler is responsible for the resiliency of the cloud. But if you think about all these outages that have happened, they have come at the expense of so many different critical applications, you know, things that are used globally across the board.

[00:16:20] And with our solution, what you have is the ability to rehome or relocate that application at a moment's notice to either another availability zone, another region in the public cloud, another cloud provider altogether, or even bring that, you know, refactor that workload back on-prem if necessary. And that's not something you're going to get from a cloud service provider, right? They have no incentive to give you that exit strategy or reverse gear.

[00:16:42] You know, they want to make sure that everything that you reside runs very well in their environment, but not necessarily going to make it easily to sort of extricate yourself at a moment's notice. And the OpenShift migration, I think, demonstrated dramatic time and cost savings. But on the flip side of that, what do you think it told us about the hidden complexity that many enterprises are carrying in their current stacks? We often talk about technical debt, et cetera, but most organizations do have a very complex stack, don't they?

[00:17:10] Yeah, they do. And I think that instead of disavowing the complexity, I think it's going to be looking for ways to help to mitigate it. And I think customers, when they start considering the OpenShift migration, you know, they're dealing with a couple of, you know, different headwinds, right? One is going to be the infrastructure itself. And are they going to be compelled to have to redesign or sort of refactor all of their storage and compute and those different workloads as they move into an open shift ecosystem?

[00:17:36] And what's the great thing about this open shift story is that it's not one of just migration. It's one of sort of ordered transformation where a customer can now easily move between different hypervisors, but also take on that effort of saying, well, is it also necessary that I reconsider the form factor for my application? Does it need to go from a traditional virtual machine to a microservices architecture? But in doing so, do I have to spend, you know, a half a million or more dollars on an entire new storage paradigm?

[00:18:03] And luckily for us, I shouldn't say luckily, what's the great thing about InfoScale is that it gives customers what I would equate to the ability to extend the life expectancy of those storage investments. So now they don't have to necessarily focus in on those infrastructure decisions. They can focus in on optimizing what their workload is or optimizing what their business outcomes are. And really just being able to leave all that infrastructure discussion as a point.

[00:18:27] And if it's not ransomware threats keeping CTOs and CISOs awake at night, there is, of course, the problem of growing regulatory pressure and frameworks that now just demand proof of recovery capability. It's no longer enough just to blag it or say that you have. You need to prove that capability. So how does your platform help organization demonstrate compliance rather than just simply claim it and put it on your website? We don't just talk the talk. We walk the walk.

[00:18:55] And we have been doing this for decades. We have been enabling customers to take advantage of our technology in ways that really are, again, altogether unavailable or elusive in otherwise point or native solutions. And more specifically, under the concept of what we call a fire drill or in some cases, an application rehearsal. This concept is very straightforward.

[00:19:15] It allows you to bring your workload online in a secondary location non-disruptively from your production instance, meaning you can now bring up that application, test that it attaches to that environment successfully, validate any sort of business operations against it, verify that you can meet all your regulatory expectations and compliance standards. And you can do so in a way that is predictable. It's the autonomy is now within the hands of the customer to do so at your schedule, at your leisure.

[00:19:44] But also at the same time, it can be reported on and it's defensible so that if you have a situation where you need to prove that you can do a stress to exit and you have to be able to move a set of applications, but not just individual applications, but entire composite services. These are upstream and downstream multi-tier services. You can test and verify that. And I hate oversimplifying things because these are very complex operations, but they don't need to be complicated, right? You can do so with a single operation, right? I used to say this analogy all the time, right?

[00:20:13] If you had a choice of driving across country and you needed to get there as effectively as possible, are you going to get in an automobile or are you going to ride a bicycle, right? A hundred times, 99 times out of a hundred, someone's going to take the automobile. Well, an automobile is infinitely more complicated than a bicycle, but it's not necessarily complicated to operate. And that's the message that we're trying to convey here. These are complex operations, but they don't have to be complicated to initiate.

[00:20:38] And they are complex operations, but we do have so many different tools at our disposable. And looking at what you're offering here, everything from predictive analytics, anomaly detection, autonomous resilience. How do you see all these things collectively helping change the way enterprises think about uptime over the next three to five years when there's going to be even more things thrown at it?

[00:21:00] Well, you know what I'm going to do here is I'm going to pivot and I'm going to throw this over to Cassie because I think Cassie wants to answer this one because she's been doing a fantastic job of providing this message out to our audiences. I'm just so excited because I get to see exactly what you guys are working on and hear the vision every day. And I bought into it a hundred percent. What we see this market doing right now is like Joe just described, a ton of different pain points.

[00:21:28] You've got reactive models that are just breaking down, but the future is more real time than ever. And that's where Joe's designing InfoScale to deliver. So you mentioned predictive resilience. This is, again, real time. And this is how environments are going to have to be able to defend themselves. They have to be able to self-diagnose, self-heal. And this is, again, something that you mentioned, the operating layer.

[00:21:53] Unless you have control over that, you're never going to be able to accurately and proactively diagnose and react to what disruption is happening in your environment. So we see resilience is not going to be something that you react to and you activate your backups. This is something that's continuously operating before something bad happens. And this is the future of operational resilience. And Cassie, what excites you about working in this space at the moment?

[00:22:20] I'm Joe's counterpart in product marketing, and I work very closely with them every day, listening to customers, listening to the market challenges. And it's exciting because I've never seen a market move so quickly before. And the pace of change just across the board at what backup and recovery vendors are doing, but more importantly, what cloud vendors are doing. They're all coalescing around this ability to real-time triage environments.

[00:22:46] And it's something that InfoScale, like Joe mentioned, has been leading silently in the market for years without a clear label. And it's time that that label comes out of the closet a little bit and says, you know, it's real-time operational resilience. And this is where the market is ultimately going to be able to get ahead of the IT challenges that are going to be amplified with AI or cyber attacks. You know, there are innumerable technologies in the market that can move a bit of data from point A to point B.

[00:23:15] And there are innumerable technologies in the market that can look at a service and say, oh, is that thing running? Do I need to restart it? But we don't look at resiliency that way anymore because not only do we have to look at it through the lens of a whole host of new sort of existential type threats, right? Be it cyber attacks and ransomware attacks. We have to be able to deliver on a promise of scalability, performance, resiliency across a myriad of different applications and platforms.

[00:23:45] And we have to unify the way the customers actually operate in these environments. So whether, you know, I use this analogy quite often or I have in the past use it quite often where if a customer is simply just looking at, you know, an on and off binary discussion, right? Is my application running or is my application not running? That's kind of like the light switch, right? We want to make sure that it's on or it's off. If it's off and we need to turn it on, we'll flick the switch. No problem. Or if it's on and you need to turn it off, we can flick that too. And that doesn't mean just one light bulb. That means, you know, all the lights that are necessary. But it's not always about on off, right?

[00:24:15] It's about this idea. Is this application actually performing? Meaning is the light actually bright enough? So we're not just a light switch, we're a dimmer switch. And we can actually control the light in terms of it used to be brightness. But now with all these smart bulbs, I can control the color. I can control the hue. I can control the intensity and the lumens. So it's way more sophisticated in terms of what you can control. But ultimately, it's still the effectiveness of your application. And then lastly, this notion of, well, what happens when the light bulb goes out?

[00:24:44] Well, just like in your house, you don't have to shut the power to your house in order to change that light bulb. We actually give you the ability to move those applications and recover those applications without having to take an outage across the entire of your data center. So making sure that we mitigate the downtime associated with those migration operations and sharing the performance scale and resiliency, both as a reactive measure, but also predictively so that we know we can be prepared for those outages when they when they, you know, can and do in fact happen, but also then controlling them, you know,

[00:25:14] in a way that can simplify your operations. So that's sort of the charter for us. That's how we're sort of envision the product and how it's evolved and really just meeting these new threats as they come, you know, head on. And a question I always like to ask my guests at the end is maybe bust a few myths or misconceptions that just frustrate them, whether they've been scrolling on LinkedIn, Reddit or somewhere else. I can ask you both this, but Joe, we'll send it to you first.

[00:25:40] What do people most misunderstand about your industry or are there any myths about your job or field of expertise that frustrate you? We can lay the rest today. Well, I think there's a couple of perception challenges and perception is often way more difficult to overcome than the truth. And I think the perception that we have to constantly overcome is this idea that we're only relevant to these legacy Unix workloads. And that's all we can be successful at supporting. Now, I'd be completely remiss if I didn't point out that that is where our origin story is from.

[00:26:10] But just like any superhero, your origin story is only part of it, right? It's where you take those capabilities and involve your strength and your powers over the years. And we've done precisely that. Yes, our origins are with the monolithic storage discussions and the large-scale Unix systems, but they've moved completely into a cloud-native microservices-type architecture today that couldn't be more relevant. And I will say this, the one thing that we have enabled for many years, which often is seen as elusive or in many cases altogether unattainable,

[00:26:37] and that is a true multi-cloud strategy, right? We can absolutely help customers achieve that today. We can give them the autonomy to move workloads amongst on-prem, physical and virtual, multi-platform environments into the public cloud, between public cloud providers, back on-prem to different resources in your brick-and-mortar data center. That is absolutely something that we can achieve today. So yeah, those would be the two big perceptions or misconceptions I'd love for us to overcome. I'd say, too, that was a great one.

[00:27:07] But the biggest one, too, I see just across enterprises is they think that they have already solved that challenge, like you said, with backup, replication, or those cloud-native availability tools in place. And it's not until, like Joe said, they're trying to overcome an ongoing disruption, either repatriation or the ransomware attack, that they discover that it's broken down, or during an outage, a notable outage, their systems are all down.

[00:27:35] And that's the reality is that reactive resilience is enough to get by, and they're just not protection designed for real living systems across, you know, the myriad of different environments that we have to be able to support going forward. So overcoming that challenge of, you know, you're protected, but, you know, there's so much more that you could be doing. And it's actually a lot simpler than it ever should be.

[00:28:01] You don't have to stitch together, you know, 14 different tools across every single application in order to, you know, react to something. It actually is as simple as looking at it from the application and the data and designing resilience around that instead of, again, trying to anticipate every single infrastructure difficulty that could pop up. Yeah. An inside-out approach is really what we have been the biggest advocates for, where we take that core application and the interdependencies of that application

[00:28:30] and sort of work our way out to where you get to this sort of panoramic view of your data center, which is effectively your enterprise and your business, and how we want to protect that. And sometimes that can be seen as, you know, daunting, right? To say the least, because there's so many changes, there's so many different technologies, and things happen so rapidly that, you know, by the time you get something implemented, it's already obsolete, right? Well, we're proof that you can implement a set of technologies

[00:28:56] and maintain essentially what is a way to maximize the ROI on those technology investments, but not paint yourself into a corner where a technology decision today becomes a business problem for you tomorrow, right? And I think that that is where we have been really, really successful and continue to be successful. And customers can see that, you know, that have been using us for 30 plus years and have been through any number of technology shifts in the industry, those sort of points of inflection, right? We've been basically riding shotgun with these customers the whole time,

[00:29:26] giving them that autonomy, giving them the, essentially the control of how their technology decisions should be in service of their business and not, you know, having to frame their business around the technology options. And I think that is a powerful moment to end on. I will add a link to both of your LinkedIn's there, and I would urge people to connect with you directly if they want to carry this conversation on. But for all things InfoScale, the kind of big announcements that may or may not be coming this year or anything that you're talking about,

[00:29:56] where should I point everyone listening? We've got so many updates coming this year, so absolutely tune in. LinkedIn is the best place to connect with us. We're posting any, you know, real-time news there first, as well as our website. And please feel free to connect with either Joe or myself there. We're always there. InfoScale.com. I can't be more excited about the fact that this product has now defined our business unit within the Cloud Software Group. So it's been given such an opportunity to really spread the wings.

[00:30:25] I will have links to absolutely everything that you mentioned there. And I would urge anyone listening to check it out, get in touch, let me know what you're thinking too. Go over to techtalksnetwork.com if you want to ask me any questions. But more than anything, big thank you, Cassie, Joe. Thank you for joining me today. Neil, thanks for having us. This was great. Yeah, thanks for having us, Neil. One of the many things I took away from this conversation is that resilience has quietly moved from a technical checkbox to a business capability

[00:30:52] that can shape revenue, trust, and speed to market. And Joe made a strong case today for putting context around applications and interdependencies rather than treating resilience as just another set of isolated tools. And then Cassie also reinforced why that next chapter is continuous with environments that can diagnose, that can adapt and recover without waiting for a crisis to force action.

[00:31:21] And I think collectively there, there's an even bigger leadership point that both of my guests mentioned today. Enterprises are currently being asked to prove that they can recover through fire drills, rehearsals, defensible reporting, all while moving faster than ever before enough to compete with their competitors. And this tension is where a lot of IT leaders are living right in the heart of now. And I suspect as I've said that out loud, there'll be a few of you nodding in agreement

[00:31:50] or he will at least resonate with you. So if you want to keep up with Joe and Cassie and what they're building, please follow the latest updates. I'll include links to everything, including their LinkedIn profiles and the InfoScale website. But over to you. Did this episode make you rethink how prepared your organisation really is? And what would you change first? Would it be your tools, your assumptions, or your culture around operational resilience?

[00:32:20] Well, let me know. TechTalksNetwork.com. You can leave me an audio message over there or send me a DM, connect with me on socials. 4,000 interviews over there too. But before I go, three thank yous. Big thank you to Cassie and Joe. Big thank you to each and every one of you for listening and Philippe from the IT Press Store for introducing us today. But that's it for today. I'll be back again tomorrow with another guest. Bye for now.