Inside Epicor's Approach To Inclusive, High-Performing Tech Teams

[00:00:04] What does it take to lead with imagination, especially in industries that run on precision, pressure and very little patience for fluff and woo-woo? Well, today's conversation is someone who proves you do not have to choose between creativity and practicality to succeed. I'm joined by the magnificent Kerry Jordan. She's Chief Marketing Officer and SVP for Product at Epicor.

[00:00:31] But Kerry's journey from studying literature to shaping product strategy for industrial businesses, I think is a timely reminder that tech leadership is rarely a straight line. And we're going to talk about pragmatic innovation today, co-creating products with customers who live in the real world. But being tough on problems but kind to people can change how tech teams perform under pressure.

[00:00:55] And if you've ever wondered how storytelling, resilience and real empathy show up inside global tech companies, you're going to like this one. But enough from me. Let me introduce you to Kerry right now. So a massive warm welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do? Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm excited to chat with you and to share my story.

[00:01:21] So I'm Kerry Jordan, the Chief Marketing Officer and SVP of Product at Epicor. So a bit about Epicor before I get into myself, just to kind of give you the context. So Epicor is a global ERP, AI and industry productivity solution provider. We really focus on industrial businesses. We're hyper-focused manufacturing, distribution, building, supply, retail and the automotive aftermarket. We're based in Austin, Texas.

[00:01:49] We have our 20,000 customers worldwide. We've been in business for over 50 years. And the reason I share this with you is because I'm really passionate about what I do. Every day I get to work with some of the world's hardest working companies that make the stuff that we all use and rely on every day. So more about me. I've been in the software technology space now for over 20 years.

[00:02:15] And how I got here was I actually started in the product lifecycle management space. And it was an internship while I was in college. And I ended up going to this company afterwards. But I think it was a really interesting place to start in software because, you know, software can come across as pretty intangible. You know, kind of exists out there.

[00:02:40] And, you know, with my personality, what really drives me is like creativity, being able to build something, telling stories. And, you know, product lifecycle management is actually software that does just that because it starts with an idea. It traces it through to design, how you pull together the raw materials to create and deliver products.

[00:03:03] And so when I was in the PLM space, you know, my job was to interview companies who use the software and to write the case studies. So an otherwise intangible thing became pretty clear to me, like the stories that they would tell me not only, you know, impacted their companies, but they would share stories about like their own career journeys. So it kind of became more about the person. And it just, you know, all became more compelling, really, really pulled me into the software space.

[00:03:33] So I expanded from product lifecycle management to supply chain management. Speaking of drama, there's been so much in the past, you know, a couple of years about the chaos and supply chain and, you know, how companies are trying to deal with all the disruptions. And so now, you know, my career is leading the marketing and product teams at Epicor. And I've been with this company now for almost nine years. Both marketing and product are extremely rewarding disciplines.

[00:04:02] You know, people who generally get into this space are, you know, data driven, passionate, creative, intellectually curious and want to solve hard problems. So, you know, when we kind of come together and work with companies that are, you know, trying to, you know, do great things, change the world, it can be a place where you can really make an impact. So just an example of, you know, something that we've been working on recently. There's a company, it's a metal fabricator.

[00:04:32] It's a global metal fabricator. And what they're looking to do is to become more sustainable. And so one of the things that they're trying to do is to better track their carbon emissions, tie specific carbon impact to the products that they're delivering to their customers. And to make sure their customers know that they are a sustainable organization and so that they can understand their carbon impact by doing business with them.

[00:04:58] So we have to, of course, help them track carbon emissions through their process, tie it to specific packages, print labels that are specific to that package that's going to that customer. And then, of course, to track and report on this kind of information to their stakeholders. So, you know, just an example of the different ways that we, you know, are looking to make an impact every day and, you know, building, changing behaviors, driving growth.

[00:05:26] And, you know, in the meantime, changing the world and having an impact around the world. So just, you know, an example of the kinds of things that we get to work on every day. There's so much I love there. You're on the edge of my seat. And one of the reasons I love recording this every day is learning more about the origin story of my guests. And your journey there from studying literature to shaping cloud ERP strategy for a global manufacturing software company is both unusual and compelling.

[00:05:55] So when you look back, what moments or decisions most influence you as a leader that you have become today? Again, it feels like a fascinating story. It's like that Steve Jobs quote that you can't join up the dots looking forward. But I suspect when you look back, you can see how it all came to shape. Yes, yes, that's so true. It has been a fun journey.

[00:06:15] And, you know, when I was studying literature, you know, what really stuck with me was the construction of a good story and being able to connect with your audience. And, you know, I also studied marketing.

[00:06:32] And that really helped me better connect with my audience by being able to really, you know, understand, put myself in their shoes and to, you know, sort of understand what are the challenges that they're trying to solve and to connect on a different level. And so, you know, that really helped me from an education standpoint.

[00:06:51] And even just kind of going back, you know, thinking about my family and growing up, my mom, she was an artist and my dad was an engineer. So to kind of put together those two worlds, there's a lot of creativity, but also like practical problem solving. And they always encouraged us to express ourselves and to do so in a practical manner.

[00:07:18] So, you know, I would say that that has really helped me in working with the kinds of organizations that I do every day from, you know, manufacturing, distribution, building supply, retail, automotive companies. Like these need pragmatic innovation. It's not enough to just, you know, innovate with AI for the sake of innovating with AI. That's not going to deliver the kind of ROI that an organization needs.

[00:07:43] And, you know, I would say along the way, not only working with these kinds of companies and then my education, but also, you know, I've had great mentors along the way who have helped me to, you know, really, you know, stay with the hard problems that, you know, really, really challenged me throughout my career.

[00:08:10] I remember when I first heard the term stick-to-itiveness, you know, and it was like, if you have a difficult problem, you know, stick to it. And as you do that, you build resilience. And when you solve those really hard problems, it's so rewarding to look back and say, hey, I accomplished that. What else can I do?

[00:08:34] And I think that those are the kinds of learnings along the way that, you know, helped me push forward and to keep going when there were difficult problems that needed to get solved. And I'd have to say, too, it wasn't just myself. It was, again, having those mentors, but then being able to sort of rally the team and to work together to solve them. It's not, you know, you don't have to do it alone.

[00:08:59] You can, you know, work with a great team and ensuring that you surround yourself, especially as a leader, with great teams. That's how you get through it. And before you came on the podcast, I was doing a little research on you. One of the things that stood out to me as well about you and your story is you often speak about storytelling as a leadership skill.

[00:09:20] So how does that translate into real world impact when guiding something like a product strategy and aligning teams across everything from engineering, customers and the wider business? And if you can share around that and the role of storytelling in something like this. I love storytelling. I love it. You know, it's how humans communicate. And it's our most fundamental and important skill. You know, like we were saying, software can be like an ambiguous thing.

[00:09:48] And for organizations that are building products, organizations are investing in software technologies. It's always a major and consequential decision for that business. And so there are data driven reasons, but then there are also emotional reasons.

[00:10:09] And it's important to really engage the audience, understand who you're working with, to communicate with them on a different level, to explain the value, to connect with them on that emotional level so that there's mutual trust and you can be authentic and open.

[00:10:27] So I think, you know, the ability to connect in that way, regardless of, you know, if you're in software technology, manufacturing, just as humans, it's how we best communicate. And I think it also just makes all this so much more interesting. We all want the drama. We want to hear, you know, the real story behind, you know, what's going on.

[00:10:51] So I think, you know, being able to really communicate and have those kinds of strong storytelling capabilities is what really, you know, has driven me in my career and can help, you know, anybody looking to take their career to the next level. And, of course, when talking on a podcast or even a post on social media, we very often talk about our successes along the way and maybe a few challenges we have to overcome.

[00:11:19] But we don't talk about some of the problems that we encounter enough. And burnout, for example, remains a quiet reality for many people listening, particularly women in tech I've recently been reading about too. So what was it that helped you recognize it in yourself and how has that experience reshape how you lead and protect your teams today? Because there's an old Elvis song, you've got to walk a mile in someone's shoes before, you know, you can understand and help others. And you've kind of been there.

[00:11:48] So what did you learn from that and what do you do going forward having been there? Yeah, yeah. This is a, this is a, you're right, it's a difficult topic. And I think it's important that we do acknowledge it and that we talk through it, you know, being open and authentic is important to me. And it's something that I've encouraged my teams. So I really think that this goes back to communication, you know, when you can create a work culture that encourages transparency and teamwork.

[00:12:17] And it's okay to discuss, it's okay to ask for resources. It's okay to take a step back if that's what you need, right? And to just make sure that you communicate that. Well-being has always been important to me. And as I've developed as a leader, I generally lean towards more empathy. And I would say, especially within product, product leaders have to have empathy.

[00:12:44] And it's, I think it's, it's a little bit more like popular to have empathy for the customers. It's important to have empathy for the customers. It's also important to have empathy for yourself and for your teams. And that, that is a skill that I have been working to hone and I encourage my teams to do so as well.

[00:13:04] For me, speaking of burnout, some of the ways in which I have sort of tried to overcome burnout over the years just to kind of like share what I've done. And it's obviously not going to work for everybody. But for me, I try to create like escapes, regular escapes, quiet moments for myself where I can kind of reconnect.

[00:13:26] So for me, I have, I'm married, I have three kids and they're, they're ages 17, 10 and five. So we kind of span the gamut. And it's important that we have family dinner together every night. It's, it's not every night. It's almost every night. We try. Obviously you can't. And that's not going to work for every family or every person.

[00:13:50] And maybe you want a quiet dinner by yourself and that's okay too, you know, but it's, it's about finding that, that quiet time. And especially if you can do it on a regular basis, it's something to kind of look forward to. I, I had tried scheduling regular breakfasts, you know, and that didn't work for me. But now my husband and I do wake up early before the kids.

[00:14:15] So we can have our coffee together and in a quiet moment, talk about the day to come or the day prior that really helps. So I think, you know, it, no matter what it is for you, where you are finding that time to reconnect and then sticking to it and protecting that time. I block time in the calendar, you know, to try to have that time to just sort of take a deep breath and, and, you know, then, then prepare myself for, for what comes next.

[00:14:44] But finding something on a regular basis to protect your time and to sort of center yourself, I think is really critical. Yeah, I completely agree with you. And on, well, after 4,000 interviews on here, I've heard so many inspiring stories of people thanking individuals who have helped inspire them. But by simply investing a little time in them very often, and those people are very often blissfully unaware.

[00:15:09] And the reason I bring that up is, having read about yourself there, I know mentorship is incredibly meaningful in your own career too. So in your view, what is it that separates good mentorship that truly changes outcomes and changes career trajectories very often from the kind that just kind of exists in name only, that's kind of half-hearted? Yeah, this is a good question. Mentorship is really important to me.

[00:15:35] And I think as a leader, leaders have a responsibility to mentor and apprentice the next generation of leaders. I would say, though, when it comes to how do you really have a strong, great mentorship relationship? Yes, it is on the mentor to actively listen, to provide constructive feedback, to point out someone's blind spots.

[00:16:03] But honestly, I think the way to have a really powerful mentorship is on the mentee, the person being mentored. There's so much on you in a responsibility when you're working with your mentor to come prepared, to have examples of maybe conversations or scenarios that you've been in.

[00:16:27] So you can ask specific questions and get specific guidance and advice so that when you encounter something like that again, or maybe you need to go back and correct something that you know how to do that. I think for me, when I have had the most powerful mentorships, it's when I really thought about it and I came prepared and I had to lean in to it.

[00:16:51] And I'll say for me, it was difficult at first because you do have to be vulnerable and you have to say, like, I am questioning myself in this situation. I feel like I didn't do it right. How would you have done this differently? Or can you coach me when I encounter something like this again? So I think it's really there's an onus of responsibility on the person being mentored to make sure that you are taking it seriously, you're approaching it well prepared,

[00:17:21] and that you're also willing to listen to the hard advice that you're probably going to hear and to incorporate that into your, you know, going forward. That said, not every mentorship relationship has to be formal. I've had a lot of really powerful informal mentors just being willing to listen and, you know, be open to the kind of feedback.

[00:17:46] Like, like that one that I mentioned, stick-to-itiveness, that was one that, that was just a passing conversation where I had said, you know, this is a really difficult thing. I think I'm not going to try to do it anymore. Maybe I should just, you know, try something new and different. And they were like, well, have you heard of stick-to-itiveness? You know, and that, I'm sure that they, I don't know if they remember it, but that certainly has stuck with me. And those are the kinds of things that when you are open and you hear it and you remember and then you apply it later, it can have really powerful impacts on your career.

[00:18:17] And who was that person? Can we give them a thank you and a shout out? And the only reason I say that is because I think very often people can just give you a, almost a throwaway comment or a little bit of advice that they assume that you might just take a little of it and then walk off and then you both go about your lives. But all these years later, you still remember that moment. I sure do. I sure do. It was Sarvesh. It was a long time ago, but he said that to me in my internship at Agile Software. So, yeah, I will not forget that.

[00:18:45] Love it. Quick shout out. Hope they get to hear that. I've also got to shine a light on the fact that manufacturing does remain and still remains one of the most male-dominated sectors in technology. And yes, there's been a lot of big improvements. There's still so much room for more, though. So from your perspective, what are the practical steps that manufacturers and software providers still avoid that would generally shift the experience for women on the ground?

[00:19:11] Any big takeaways or advice that you could leave? Yes. You know, I really feel like changes and intentional engagements, you know, need to happen across the spectrum, you know, from early childhood education, university, trade school programs, internships, that first manager promotion, the first line supervisor promotion, through to seeing women in leadership positions and really modeling the way at the top of organizations.

[00:19:37] So it's hard to even pick one or two because there are a lot of changes that are required. But, you know, I will say I think AI and technology are really changing the landscape here. So, you know, broadly, first of all, it's making technology more accessible to anyone. There are great upskilling opportunities.

[00:20:02] You can go online and find great resources that are readily available. I think from an organizational perspective, creating these kinds of opportunities, upskilling programs, training programs for your employees is an excellent investment in your future. Leadership, but also your team members, you know, helping.

[00:20:28] Second, I would say the way technology is helping is with flexibility in schedule. So when it comes to being able to bring on more women leaders, bring on, you know, the next generation, bring on anybody, having flexibility in schedules can really be helpful because that gives them the opportunity to go do the upskilling programs that you've made available.

[00:20:53] It gives them the opportunity to avoid burnout by being able to have, you know, that dinner at home. Right. So technology, I think, is really changing the game here. And honestly, I'll just say from a women's perspective in technology or manufacturing or any industry, they really just want to do their job. We just want to do our job just like anyone else.

[00:21:16] And, you know, giving that space and listening and then giving them the autonomy to do that, I think, is, you know, really, really the best thing that organizations can do. And we've talked a lot around your personal story and success today. And from a company perspective, I also wanted to highlight that Epicor has been recognized again by Gartner for its cloud ERP leadership. So on that side of things, first of all, congratulations.

[00:21:44] And second, how do you balance that pressure of getting that market recognition that you've always worked towards with that responsibility of building products actually serve the people using them every day? Is it a tricky balance? Yes. Yes. This this is another great question, because the reality is, of course, you know, the company is is a business. We have to ensure that we are remaining competitive.

[00:22:10] And I would say the way that we have figured this out is through the voice of our customer. It's in our DNA to co-innovate with customers. We've been in business, as I mentioned, for over 50 years. And throughout that time, we've stayed really close and innovated in partnership with the customers that that we've been doing business with every day. So our secret sauce is industry expertise.

[00:22:37] And we've learned that by working alongside them, you know, throughout the years. So as I mentioned, these the kind of companies that we work with are highly pragmatic. They're looking for solutions to problems. And when it comes to where we get the ideas for our products, certainly we're listening to market insights, analysts, you know, the media. But most importantly, directly from our customers.

[00:23:07] And there's a variety of ways that we do that. We have advisory programs. We have industry advisory programs. We have a cloud council that's made up of leaders of of our customers who've invested in the latest technologies. And we hear their forward thinking plans and ensure that we're aligned so that we continue to be their technology partner of the future.

[00:23:32] We also have not just the sort of one on one or close knit groups, but crowdsourcing tools. So we have the Epicor Ideas platform. That is where anybody can go and submit ideas. And there are tools on there to vote for your favorites. And you can communicate directly with the product teams.

[00:23:54] And we are always reviewing those ideas that are being submitted and then giving direct feedback when it's incorporated within the technology roadmap or if it's already been. And we point to other solutions. We also, of course, have our large community events. We have our Insights Conference, for example, that is in May for global customers. But then we have that around the world as well.

[00:24:24] Actually just came from one of our large customer events in Asia. And we have just great conversations. It's an excellent way. And then we as the product and marketing teams are listening in these kinds of events and incorporating them. So, you know, when it comes to ensuring that we're staying head of the market, you know, the only way in which we're going to do so is if we are listening and incorporating the ideas from our customers. And we are very intentional about capturing them, incorporating them, communicating that out,

[00:24:53] and then continuing a feedback loop to ensure that we're always listening to our customers. And also on this podcast, we talk a lot around how the importance of diversity of thought across the tech industry is just so underestimated and incredibly crucial. But on the flip side of that, inclusive leadership is often spoken about but not always lived. And I suspect we've both seen examples of that. So what does an inclusive, high-performing team, what does that really look like when things get tough,

[00:25:23] when deadlines loom and commercial pressure builds? Yes. You know, I think this goes back to communication and storytelling and just how crucial that is to ensure that, you know, you do have open lines of communication. It's important that you establish a work culture that encourages psychological safety. And that means avoiding blame.

[00:25:50] It means having regular conversations both before and after when it comes to maybe a large initiative. And when a large initiative, for example, doesn't go as planned, having the teams that are ready to have conversations about it in a way that, again, avoids blame and is open about changes.

[00:26:16] And we often say we're tough on problems, not on people. And that is really important, you know, that we all are ready to swarm, tackle a problem, and sort of lock arms and do this together in a collaborative effort. And we're not blaming one another. You know, that's part of really, it's really important to me as a leader, especially as I have led product teams and now marketing teams.

[00:26:46] You know, product and marketing, you know, oftentimes when working, there's conflict. And, you know, there's a level of friction that's healthy in the business. And encouraging those difficult conversations, but again, doing so in a way that's tough on the problem, not on the people, I think is a way to get through those kinds of difficult conversations,

[00:27:12] especially as you're saying there's deadlines, there is commercial pressure. But being able to trust those that you work with that we're going to tackle the problem and not be hard on one another, that's important to be able to have a high-performing culture. And a few moments ago, we shared a story our mentor many years ago gave you a little bit of advice. It stuck with you for your entire career. And I'm quite conscious we could have somebody.

[00:27:40] We're talking directly into their ear right now, and you could have a similar impact. So if there is a woman anywhere listening that is considering a leadership role in tech or manufacturing, but then the imposter syndrome kicks in, they feel uncertain about belonging or longevity, etc. What would you say to that person to help them understand about resilience, career longevity, and ultimately defining success in their own terms?

[00:28:06] What would you say to that person that's just looking out into the universe right now and looking for a bit of advice? Yes. Gosh. Well, I will say there will be ups and downs, and that's okay. You are not alone. And I suggest keep going. First of all, you've earned your credentials. You've earned your accomplishments. Don't forget that. And even if you feel doubt, just keep going.

[00:28:34] I certainly have questioned many times. And, you know, it's just, all right, let's try to make space, you know, for, I would say, let that go. Make space for tomorrow and keep going. You know, once you're able to do that, that is resilience. That is the most difficult skill to hone. But I think once you do hone resilience, you're unstoppable.

[00:29:04] You can take on anything. And again, those become your accomplishments that build and give you confidence and you can keep going. So I would say set your goals. And once you achieve them, congratulations. And give yourself the space to create new ones or to change direction. You know, give yourself the freedom to, you know, chart a new course. That's okay, too, right? You can change direction. So it is difficult.

[00:29:33] Like I said, there's ups and downs. But once you can build that skill of resilience, you are unstoppable in anything that you choose to do. Absolutely love that. And I've loved chatting with you today and hearing how you studied literature and moved from there to shaping cloud ERP strategy for a global manufacturing software company. So for that full circle moment alone, I've got to ask you a final question here. And it's a slight curveball.

[00:30:00] But I often ask my guests, is that a book that means something to you that you'd recommend that we'd add to our Amazon wishlist? Or a song that inspires you and means something to you? Guilty pleasures are allowed that we will add to our Spotify playlist. I don't mind which. But if you could, what would you like to leave everyone listening? Oh, my gosh. I just got this book. It's really fun. It's called How to Make Work Not Suck. Ah, I love it. It's by Karina Magar. And it is so fun.

[00:30:29] It makes me chuckle if I'm in a... Speaking of resilience, if I'm in a difficult meeting, I might just glance at this. And it really gives me a chance to smile. So How to Make Work Not Suck. I would highly suggest this one. Well, I'm definitely going to add that straight to the Amazon wishlist. Seeing you smile and laugh like that, it's got to have something behind it. So we will get that added straight to the wishlist.

[00:30:54] And for anyone wanting to connect with you, your team, find out more information about Epicor, for example. Where would you like to point everyone? Yes. So you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm at Carrie Jordan on LinkedIn. And of course, if you'd like to learn more about Epicor, epicor.com. I highly encourage you to do so. And please do reach out.

[00:31:14] Like I said, when you're looking for a mentor or you just need to connect or network and you're looking for inspiration, just do it. Just lean into it. Just do it. Who knows where it'll lead? But please do feel free to reach out to me. Again, Carrie Jordan at LinkedIn. That's a beautiful and powerful moment to end on. I will add links to everything that you mentioned there. Anyone listening, I urge you to go to the show notes.

[00:31:41] You'll find links on how to connect and find out more information. But more than anything, just a fantastic story. I really enjoyed every aspect of it. It's a real page turner, as you might say. But thank you so much for sitting down and sharing it with me tonight. Thank you so much, Neil. I've really appreciated this conversation. So many things I loved about this conversation, but I think most of all, it was the honesty behind it all. Carrie reminded us that leadership is sometimes not about having all the answers.

[00:32:11] It's about sticking with the hard problems, protecting your energy and creating space for people to do their best work. And whether it be mentorship and burnout to inclusive leadership and listening properly to customers, there were lessons here that travel well beyond manufacturing or ERP. So if you're building a career, leading a team, or just find yourself increasingly questioning whether you belong in the room,

[00:32:40] I genuinely hope this episode gave you something to hold on to. And if it did, I want to hear from you. I want to hear your story. And especially if you took a big key takeaway from anything in the conversation, let me know what happened after the headphones came off. TechTalksNetwork.com. Leave me an audio message if you would sooner, or you can send me a DM on any of the social channels or an email. Everything that you need will be over there. But that is it for today. So thank you to Kerry for being so honest and open today.

[00:33:10] And a bigger thank you to each and every one of you for listening and making it to the end of the episode. That must mean we're doing something right here. So thanks again. Speak to you tomorrow. Bye for now.