The HR Revolution You Haven’t Heard About Yet: AI That Empowers People

[00:00:04] - [Speaker 0]
Welcome to AI at Work, a podcast which is part of the Tech Talks Network. And in this podcast, we're gonna venture into the transformative influence of artificial intelligence inside the workplace. And our discussions will focus on both the remarkable breakthroughs, but also the complex challenges of integrating AI into our everyday business functions and workflows. And today, I'm joined by someone who's helping rewrite the story of AI in the workplace. And instead of a future defined by fear and automation, he sees one powered by empowerment and potential.

[00:00:48] - [Speaker 0]
Because my guest today is the vice president of people and culture at a company called HiBob. And while much of the conversation around AI in HR still focuses on job losses and dehumanization in recruitment, etcetera, Toby believes that AI is actually a catalyst for something much deeper, helping people do more with more, more impact, more creativity, and more human connection. So in our conversation today, we will explore how leaders can use AI to personalize employee experiences, reduce fear, and rebuild trust in an age of intelligent tools. His name's Toby, and he's gonna share how Hi Barbie is using custom AI agents to free HR teams from repetitive work while also creating a more human culture inside a fast growing global company. But enough scene setting for me.

[00:01:51] - [Speaker 0]
Let me introduce you to my guest. So a massive warm welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone listening, Toby, a little about who you are and what you do?

[00:02:02] - [Speaker 1]
Absolutely. Hi, Neil. Good morning. Yes. My name's Toby Huff, and I am the vice president of people and culture at a company called Hybob.

[00:02:11] - [Speaker 1]
Hybob is an HCM finance platform that caters to forward thinking businesses around the world that want an end to end HR platform that's a little different to the norm that's out there. But my role is not on the sales side. I work within our own HR function. So I have the real privilege of being an HR leader in a business which is all about HR, and it completely changes the dynamic with our relationship. I lead our the people and culture for our European business.

[00:02:42] - [Speaker 1]
So I'm based in The UK, and I look after bobbers, as we call them, in The UK, Netherlands, Portugal, Germany, Croatia, and then about another 12 countries where we have individuals dotted around. And, you know, globally, we're also spread across from The US all the way around to the West Coast Of Australia.

[00:03:00] - [Speaker 0]
Well, it's a pleasure to have you join me there. As an HR leader, passionate about people and culture, yes, this is an AI podcast, but one of the big focuses here is AI in the workplace, and HR playing a a crucial role in that. And the conversation around AI in the workplace, it often leads towards things like negative aspects from fear to uncertainty and doubt. So why do you think so many people see AI as a threat rather than maybe an opportunity? And how can leaders start to shift that mindset?

[00:03:34] - [Speaker 0]
What are you seeing here?

[00:03:36] - [Speaker 1]
So you frame perfectly why AI is so talked about in the HR space as well because it's just impacting people in every way and in in in and we do see this fear factor. I think high level, this is a human reaction to situations where there is a lack of certainty. I think we've seen time and time again, our best example, we always have to quote COVID, is COVID. People really filled that lack of certainty with fear, and that I think is a human pattern. When you have some facts but not enough, and you have a spectrum of commentary in the wider space, that that can be confusing and it can leave a gap.

[00:04:21] - [Speaker 1]
So, I mean, we see out in the in the wider press or or other areas everything on the AI spectrum from this is gonna be a bright new future to this is apocalyptic. And in my experience as a people and HR leader, when there are those options, almost as a self preservation tool, humans gravitate towards fear, I think, to prepare themselves. It's like a it's like a primal self protection. I don't have all the facts. I have some uncertainty.

[00:04:50] - [Speaker 1]
Somebody says it's gonna be great. Someone else says it's gonna be awful. I'll prepare myself for the awful.

[00:04:56] - [Speaker 0]
Yeah. I completely agree. One of the things that stood out for me about your belief is I often hear on this podcast that AI helps you do more with less. But one of the things that stood about you is you said, I think you described AI as a way to help people do more with more. So tell me more about what that means in practice, especially for employees and HR leaders that have been listening inside organizations scattered all around the world listening to this conversation.

[00:05:25] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. I I also think it links to your previous question around what we can do to try and alleviate some of that fear factor internally. And, you know, our business is representative of many out there. We've we are a scale up. We are investor backed.

[00:05:41] - [Speaker 1]
We're about 1,400 people globally. When I joined the company, we were 250, and that's over just over four years. There's lots of other businesses that will have similar reference points to that kind of growth journey. And there is always a point in that growth journey where you cannot continue to rely on simply bringing in people. And every company I've worked at that's grown has that pressure.

[00:06:08] - [Speaker 1]
It comes from the board. It comes from investors. This isn't a new thing. It's it existed before AI was even being talked about. And there was a lot of pressure put on leaders to find increasingly inventive ways to be efficient in in in ways that were, I think, quite traditional.

[00:06:26] - [Speaker 1]
And actually, from an HR perspective, this was where there was a real worry for us. This is where you would see maybe some of your cultural practices becoming eroded. You gotta keep costs down. You've gotta keep efficiency up. We have such an interesting opportunity with AI in that by democratizing access to AI across the organization, and this is something I'd love to to share, you know, to get into more in our conversation, You can reframe how people view this.

[00:06:54] - [Speaker 1]
It's not a technology in the sense that we associate with technology. And I think it's not helpful really to refer to AI as a technology. I know it technically is, but in the it that term is loaded. It means something to us. And we think about it as one tool that can do two or three things for us, and it's so different with AI.

[00:07:13] - [Speaker 1]
And so if you can democratize access to AI across your organization and set up a whole variety of different custom tools and agents that can support people, suddenly there is an ecosystem that exists alongside your employees, and that's where this idea of more with more comes from. Our employee base is still growing. It's just not growing at the rate that it was before. But what is growing very rapidly are these custom tools. I just had a look before our podcast.

[00:07:43] - [Speaker 1]
We have 36 currently sat on our central AI mind platform. So these are the ones that are being curated by our next tech team that say these are our home built, most influential AI tools, and everybody in the company has access to them. So that's kind of the essence of More with More. It's we're not cutting back. We're not reducing the people.

[00:08:07] - [Speaker 1]
We're not reducing investments in other areas, but we're doubling down exponentially on give on building out and giving access to these quite quite game changing tools.

[00:08:19] - [Speaker 0]
And it's incredibly cool what you're doing here. And I think many companies talk about personalization, especially an employee experience, but I've yet to see many achieve it successfully. So how can AI genuinely help managers understand and respond to individual employee needs at scale? Because as we record this conversation today, we're approaching I think it's the third birthday since ChatGPT first dropped three years ago nearly now. So we're we're getting more advanced.

[00:08:50] - [Speaker 0]
We're beginning to think bigger. But how can it actually help managers understand and respond to employee needs at scale?

[00:08:58] - [Speaker 1]
This is amazing that that that that anniversary is coming up. I hadn't realized. It's like a before and after moment, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:05] - [Speaker 1]
Before. I am passionate about managers and leadership development. And if there was one I I if there was one thing as an HR leader, if I was told you can only spend your budget on one area, I would spend it on leadership development because from the HR budget. Because it is everything. It's the way our employees experience their first day through to their last day.

[00:09:29] - [Speaker 1]
It is the most important relationship. And we know this through nice cliched expressions, like people don't leave companies, they leave their managers. And and, you know, we I I can really stand by that. I think it's critical. I wish that the problem with that as an HR leader is I would love my team, our function, to have a one to one relationship with every manager in the organization, every leader in the organization because then I think we could have really have the most impact.

[00:09:56] - [Speaker 1]
We could be coaching them through the day to day challenges that they're facing, and this is what links then to the employee experience. We could be helping them prepare for difficult conversations, building personal development plans, identifying top performers, rewarding equitably, all of these many decisions they have to make in the day to day. But we're never going to no no HR function in the world will be a one to one relationship with every leader, And this is where AI plays a lovely role. I was looking again in our AI mind to refresh what's there and to stand out for me in this area. So we have a custom tool that guides leaders through our feedback process.

[00:10:35] - [Speaker 1]
And I think this is really fantastic. Right? Because very often pre that custom tool, we would launch an annual feedback cycle. It's a seminal moment or twice semiannual. It's a seminal it's a really important moment for employees.

[00:10:51] - [Speaker 1]
But we live in this VUCA world, and no one's got enough time, and they kind of if you stop somebody in the corridor and said, do you think, you know, taking time to give good feedback to your employee is important? They would say, a 100% it's important. And then, unfortunately, when you stop that same person a couple of weeks later and say, hey, how did it go writing your review? Like, for your employee, they're gonna tell you, I haven't done it yet. I've I was running out of time, so I've rushed it.

[00:11:16] - [Speaker 1]
Oh, I'm not sure it's my best work. You know, there's this real mismatch between the understanding of the impact and the reality of what happens. And the AI coach that we built is really great for that because it really speeds everything up for leaders, and it allows them to bring in information that they've already been gathering throughout the year and help them fill out better quality reviews. One example. But in the day to day, we also have built trained on our leadership framework.

[00:11:45] - [Speaker 1]
This side which is a home built framework called our leadership code. We have trained a day to day coach for our leaders to be able to go in and say, right. I've got this challenging situation, or I need to prepare for this conversation. How can you help me here? And it can role play, and it can help that that that that that leader.

[00:12:05] - [Speaker 1]
We've also just partnered with a third party to help roll out leadership programs for different levels of leaders across our business. And again, that was one of the selling points for us is that they had a a Slack integration where you can go in and say, right. I've got this challenging situation coming up. Can we role play it? And there's an AI driven role play there.

[00:12:26] - [Speaker 1]
And, you know, what it's so powerful that and I I know that typically we wouldn't maybe when you say employee experience, we that means a lot of different things. But the reason I bring it back to the leader is I think that's really where the employee experience lies. It's in the day to day. And if your leader can show up to these difficult conversations, challenging conversations, can better prepare for critical moments in the employee life cycle at scale through AI enabled tools, we're unlocking stuff that we just were never gonna be able to do before.

[00:12:59] - [Speaker 0]
And there's an old phrase in IT. You can only improve what you measure. And I think when it comes to AI, we've seen a lot of early projects that struggle to deliver ROI because of the lack of measurement and and solving of real problems. So when introducing AI tools into people and culture functions, I'm curious. What are some of the early signs or or ways of measuring that technology is is really improving and not undermining company culture?

[00:13:28] - [Speaker 0]
Anything you're seeing here?

[00:13:30] - [Speaker 1]
Well, I'm gonna go back to your first question about the fear because I do think that the first objective for the people team in collaboration with the office of the CIO or whatever that's called in your different businesses, for us, we call it our business tech organization because we think it's much more linked to what the the reality. That relationship is important. And the single biggest concern that we should have is around removing the fear factor. When I was at a conference a couple of weeks ago, I sat in on a talk all about the productivity impact of fear or angst. They were calling it AI angst.

[00:14:10] - [Speaker 1]
And that they were tracking that this is having a real measurable productivity impact on teams because people are frozen in in the face of fear, and they're checking out to protect themselves. And so the first metric that we should be measuring is adoption. Simple as that. We should be measuring are we opening up access to training and not as a one off, but as an ongoing pulse? Because as you know better than me, Neil, AI is developing so quickly that a one off training isn't gonna work.

[00:14:42] - [Speaker 1]
So it needs to be a kind of regular rhythm. Highbob, we're running we run AI days at least two to three times a year, which we kicked off this year. And I've heard our CEO say a couple of weeks ago, we'll be doing another one in q one. And I was so relieved to hear that because that's like a mass mobilization. The whole business doesn't stop what they're doing in their day job, but there's a whole suite of activities that happen on those days, and they can join the ones that are most relevant to them.

[00:15:07] - [Speaker 1]
And we track adoption and engagement on a day like that, and then we track adoption and usage of the AI tools that we make available. And in a collaboration with OpenAI recently, they celebrated us. They came back and said 90% of your organization is regularly using custom tools built on your on on on chat. That is a relief as a metric because that tells us that we maybe are now moving through that the fundamental of that fear barrier where the first step to combating that fear is it's better the devil you know, isn't it? So how do I become accustomed to this?

[00:15:43] - [Speaker 1]
How do I start to use it? The the next measure is then around is then around actual impacts on more traditional lines. Are we seeing cost efficiencies? Are we seeing increased employee well-being and happiness? I don't think we're quite there yet, honestly.

[00:15:58] - [Speaker 1]
I don't think organizations are and, again, when I was listening to a lot of other leaders talk about this a couple of weeks ago, I didn't hear many tangible cases. There's one example I could give you. Yeah. Which is quite basic, but it's important. Typical HR bottleneck is the everyday questions, the FAQs that we get asked.

[00:16:18] - [Speaker 1]
And we don't wanna be asked them because it wastes our time, very frankly. It doesn't add the strategic value to the business that we would like to be adding, but it's very important for that employee. How do I change my address? How do I book my holiday? What's our policy on I heard I can work from anywhere for a month a year.

[00:16:34] - [Speaker 1]
Like, how does that work? We're constantly answering these questions. What you know, I'm I'm pregnant. Great news. What's my what's our parental leave?

[00:16:43] - [Speaker 1]
And that side of it is great because employees want those answers quickly so they can just get on with their day. And I think it does increase sort of employee happiness in that respect. So we, like a lot of other businesses, have got our what we call Poly. Poly is our is our is our policy in in the AI mind. One of them is Poly, and you can go and you can ask Poly a bunch of questions about, you know, those sorts of things.

[00:17:06] - [Speaker 1]
And they were no longer waiting for a human to get in the way. So I would say adoption first, and then look for the quick wins around time to answer, time to respond to the everyday questions that that people need to know the answers to.

[00:17:22] - [Speaker 0]
And I think there's often a fear that things like AI and automation can reduce the human in human resources. That's another concern you get from a lot of employees. So how can HR leaders balance the the efficiency of AI solving some of those those often asked questions that you mentioned there with the empathy that defines great leadership? I would imagine it's quite a balance.

[00:17:45] - [Speaker 1]
It is a balance. Absolutely. And even referring back to something we were talking about earlier with the with the leadership tools, you know, the the fear pushback to that would be, well, does that mean I can never come and speak to an HR business partner about a leadership challenge that I have? And, you know, the answer to that is not gonna be no. You know, the our structure is we we we meet with leaders across the business on a regular basis, monthly, sometimes weekly, depending on the level.

[00:18:11] - [Speaker 1]
We're not canceling those. We're still continuing with them. But it means that we're not getting stuck in those conversations on sort of big the big topics that that are urgent. So I think I I I but I I think this is a balance we have to be really mindful of. What are we doing with the extra time that we've got back?

[00:18:29] - [Speaker 1]
So if we're getting time back from the tools that we've mentioned, then we need to be investing more in a more human centric way on the other side. I saw an image that really resonated with me, which was the more you invest in it's like it's weighing scales. The more you invest in your AI automation and and and and agentic AI, the more you need to invest in human centric programs as well that are based on human connection. And I think it's that kind of check and balance for people teams to think, alright. Are we are we living that balance or are we not?

[00:19:00] - [Speaker 1]
I guess a good example would be something like we're doing we are doing these AI days. We're putting a lot of emphasis on our learning development onto the AI side of things. But are we doing equal investment in areas where humans are actually connecting meaningfully? And that's a good challenge back to ourselves. And in q four this year, all of our recently hired or promoted frontline managers and all of our directors and senior directors are meeting in person for an amazing leadership program that is being kicked off for them.

[00:19:31] - [Speaker 1]
So alongside the AI tools, we are investing heavily in the traditional in person employee experience that that still needs to to be there. There is another answer to this, which is less tactical, and I think it's much more around an emerging and exciting topic on skills, jobs, roles, and org design. And I'm really excited about this. I think it's going to become one of the biggest transformations that AI that HR functions go through in the next couple of years where we will need to think about organizations as being made up of humans and agents. We will need to think about how they interact.

[00:20:19] - [Speaker 1]
And, again, the way to build in the human element and protect it is to design for that, not just to let it happen around you and to get on the front foot for it. And so these are some of the conversations we're starting to have in the industry at large and and at HiBob. They are challenging conversations because we have no precedent to look back on, but I think it's fascinating.

[00:20:43] - [Speaker 0]
And I always try and give everybody listening a few valuable takeaways. So for any manager or business leader listening, what what practical steps could they be taking to today right now to ensure that AI enhances things like collaboration and engagement and trust across all their teams rather than exacerbating those those silos or even creating new silos? What should they be doing?

[00:21:09] - [Speaker 1]
It's interesting, miss. I think there are different stages to your AI adoption journey. And I first of all, knowing where you are in that journey and therefore which activities to be encouraging, which perform you know, performance measures to be celebrating when it comes to AI really matters. So for example, at HiBob, we we our first phase, and I I also believe this is true with other organizations, was was really all about familiarization and mass adoption. So we made a vast array of tools available to all team members.

[00:21:43] - [Speaker 1]
We put on these big landmark moments, marquee moments to get people out of the fear zone and into the experimentation zone. What you see in that phase are some early adopters, maybe because they were doing this at home already, because they're tech they're they're they're a little bit more naturally tech savvy. On that scale that we were talking about of kind of excitement to fear. They were perhaps more towards the middle or towards excitement. So they're they're they're they're jumping into these resources being made available, and they are creating those custom tools.

[00:22:15] - [Speaker 1]
And they're sitting over here, and they're getting loads done as a result. And then you've got a colleague sat next to them who is saying, hey. This is kind of interesting, but I I I I'm not picking this up fast enough. I can see that what you're doing is cool, but and I'm trying to build my own things here, but maybe my things I'm building are not quite so good because I was a you know, I've got a different skill set, and I wasn't I wasn't adopting this as fast as you. And we think about those now.

[00:22:40] - [Speaker 1]
I love this language. It's the author and the reader. Right? So you got your author on you and and as a leader, you need to be aware of these different personas on your team. Who are your authors?

[00:22:49] - [Speaker 1]
Who jumped in and started writing stuff, building stuff? Who are your readers? Who say, I can't build it as fast as you, but, hey, this is cool, and I wanna read it, and I wanna consume it. And if we try and turn everybody into an author, I e all of or our whole business has to be able to build custom tools, their own custom GPTs. They have to build the the the the integrations across the different suites of technology, then that isn't going to work in terms of creating the engagement, the culture, and the adoption.

[00:23:19] - [Speaker 1]
It's going to it's trying to level a playing field that's too ambitious. Instead, what leaders should be doing is identifying those authors, maybe from their own team or from other wear elsewhere in the business, saying, fantastic. You have had a great impact because you've helped build something which we can all use. And then they say, the new performance standard that I'm looking for is now adoption of that tool. And you will be doing a great job if you start using that tool as well.

[00:23:47] - [Speaker 1]
I don't need you to go and build loads of your own ones. You don't worry. Like, that wasn't your skill set. But you can make a big impact by using this tool. And it's a subtle difference, but I that's the phase we are really in now.

[00:23:59] - [Speaker 1]
Everyone's been doing their experimenting. And without judgment, we should recognize that some people have built better stuff than others. And what we want to do is have everybody use the great stuff, not everybody try and keep building stuff. And the final piece is those leaders, they need to look out for what it's a bit blunt, but what we might call the illiterates. So if we've got our authors and our readers, we will have in the business our illiterates.

[00:24:23] - [Speaker 1]
And it, again, comes back to your initial question, Neil. These are the ones who are frightened, avoiding, thinking they can sort of put their head in the sand. And, you know, for those, this is where other great leadership techniques come in, a tough feedback conversation that is kind at its core that says, I'm giving you some feedback, which is you are falling behind in the adoption of these critical tools. I don't want you to fall behind. This is how I'm gonna help you adopt you start using them, but you need to come to the table in order to do this.

[00:24:53] - [Speaker 0]
And I think many of those people that you mentioned there that are frightened or concerned, maybe they've spent too long scrolling down or doom scrolling down their news feeds. They they hear the horror story of ROI concerns or projects not coming out of pilot phase and into production. And hi, Barb. You work with organizations all around the world. So I'd love to put a positive slant on this and and focus on some good examples that maybe some of those frightened people listening can look up to and maybe even be inspired by.

[00:25:23] - [Speaker 0]
So have you seen any standout examples where AI has has truly transformed employee experience in a positive and most importantly human way. Any any stories we can shine a light on here?

[00:25:36] - [Speaker 1]
So I would say two two things. The the first one is is actually on skills development. So I know I know there's one way of looking at this from the HR angle, which is us as a function that they're building tools or using AI to take out the business for them to feel the benefits of it. And there is a there is an interpretation of it that way. And I think as an industry, we are still exploring some of that stuff.

[00:26:01] - [Speaker 1]
It it's the references we gave earlier. It's things like the agents that will tell you all about your policies and practices. It's the agents that will support leaders. It's in talent acquisition to be able to get through vast quantities of of inbound applications faster or help inform decisions or call out biases. As an as an asterisk, we know that there's a lot of debate around talent acquisition and also some controversy around AI making decisions.

[00:26:28] - [Speaker 1]
But again, with the right checks and balances, it can be a, actually, a a a powerful tool to open up and and bubble up applications that might otherwise have been lost. I mean, if you look at something like a typical because a Hybob is an HR company. When I hire a role for my team, I have a wonderfully privileged position of having hundreds of applications. I hired a UK director at the beginning of last year, and I had 600 applications in the first week. So I know that the but also that's incredibly daunting, and you think you start to just pluck out you pull the ones that have bubbled up for whatever random reason, you know, because you've logged in and that that they're the top of the list of the ATS.

[00:27:10] - [Speaker 1]
We hear so much to your question about AI being a a source of concern in talent acquisition processes and recruitment. But in a situation like that, it can tell you, hang on a minute. You're pick you're using these five CVs that you've picked up, but I'm I'm gonna find, you know, for the reasons you like those, these are a whole load that you will just not have seen because they're sitting in, you know, applications number 452453. There's always that fear of, like, what have I missed? What what's not there?

[00:27:38] - [Speaker 1]
So there's a that that that, I think, is is very transformative from an employee experience perspective to an individual if you can find their application that was otherwise otherwise has been lost. But I think that ultimately, it's skills development. So this isn't this isn't about building programs within the HR function that, you know, you present the business and they become clients of. This is around the org design talent and learning part of HR, that sort of center of excellence, where we we carry the responsibility for ensuring that the organization is building the skills for the future. This isn't a new thing.

[00:28:19] - [Speaker 1]
We talk there's been lots of Chatpre AI about skills based organizations and also lots of conversation around how organizations have struggled to become truly skills based, and they're still relying on very typical approaches to career development, very linear. You have your sort of, you know, I'm I'm this role, and then I'm a senior version of it, and then I'm a leader, and then I'm a senior leader. And, you know, it's it's it's and I'm sort of going deeper on the same set of skills, but not necessarily from a transformative perspective learning something entirely new. And I where we can really transform the employee experience fundamentally is in building AI skills in organizations. And that can be as simple as an enterprise license with OpenAI where everybody has access.

[00:29:04] - [Speaker 1]
It's an investment. But based on what we've discussed with AI angst before and that worry, I think there's growing evidence to show that the productivity impact of the angst sitting in your organization will be will offset the investment that you make in something like an enterprise license for Gemini or whatever whichever one you want. So get those enterprise licenses. Don't say these roles can have access to AI tools and those ones can't. Open it up to everybody.

[00:29:35] - [Speaker 1]
And it I think you will really see that that that you'll pay dividends on that investment if you do that.

[00:29:42] - [Speaker 0]
And something else that unites every single person listening and you and I, and that is the need for continuous learning and adaptability. The journey we've been on over the last five years is nothing short of breathtaking. But looking ahead, I mean, what new skills or new mindsets will leaders need to thrive in a workplace where AI isn't replacing people but amplifying their potential? Feels like it's gonna be a new set of skills required here.

[00:30:09] - [Speaker 1]
Yes. Absolutely. And there's a cup a lot of new skills. There's two things that that jump to mind. One is a theme.

[00:30:19] - [Speaker 1]
I think this is a theme in business. It's gonna be a theme also in education. I I'm worried that education needs to catch up on this, and that this theme is around the whole concept of expertise. I wonder the extent to which humans should continue to develop expertise as a path to seniority versus the ability to interrogate to get the right information. We get to a point where an AI tool could know very quickly more than any human about a whole range of topics.

[00:30:50] - [Speaker 1]
That's a fundamental mindset shift around how we think about building our own knowledge and expertise. And very often in the world of work, I think, know, what we have traditionally valued is rinse and repeat experience around lots of things. That is still going to be valuable. But, you know, this person is a deep expert on this topic. We'll go to them for that.

[00:31:11] - [Speaker 1]
Is that going to be the right thing to invest in, or should we instead be investing in broader skills like consulting skill tool kits where people are encouraged to understand the right questions to ask? And and in fact, think the consulting example is a really great one because that's already an industry which drops people into a whole range of different businesses, and they very quickly have to become knowledgeable about that business. And and they do that through learning the right questions to ask and the right sources to go to. And in many ways, if we're working as humans alongside AI, they will know the AI will know more than us. So how do we build the skill sets to start to to know what questions to ask rather than knowing just purely how to acquire knowledge in the traditional sense?

[00:31:55] - [Speaker 1]
So that's one shift. The other shift is is and this, I think, is really exciting, is learning how to work in a symbiotic relationship with agents. This goes back to the earlier point around, let's not think about AI as technology. Let's think about it as something totally different, totally new in category defining. And we can help that.

[00:32:16] - [Speaker 1]
We HR can help the organization with that in even how we demonstrate an org chart. And so if we have both humans and agents on that org chart, we can sort of signpost where those interrelationships are. So if you're leading a team, something you can start investing in is thinking, because I don't think this is very far down the line, is how can I demonstrate visually to my own team members that they are on the team, and we also have some some agents on our team as well? And and so they are working together as if they had a teammate next to them. This also is exciting for from a career development perspective.

[00:32:54] - [Speaker 1]
And one of the tensions we navigate in HR is this idea of do you have to be a people leader in order to progress in an organization? Do you have to go into people leadership in order to progress? And the the fashionable answer is no. Of course not. Don't.

[00:33:11] - [Speaker 1]
You can be a a expert individual contributor, and you can rise the ranks that way. But the reality is there are far fewer of those opportunities at the top of the organization. And if you look across the board at the large majority of organizations, the people in the most senior positions manage organizations. They lead organizations, and they they also lead individuals. There are very few most senior positions that are purely individual contributor roles.

[00:33:41] - [Speaker 1]
The skill set required to lead AI agents is going to be similar but different to the skill set required to lead humans. And this is a theory, but I think it's an exciting one, which is that that's what some of the reasons that people are put off from going into people leadership. You know, they say I'm not gonna be any I I had these conversations with our own team. I'm not gonna be any good at that because I haven't got the patience. I'm not a very good communicator.

[00:34:08] - [Speaker 1]
I don't wanna deal with all of the, like, stuff that people bring into the workplace. In HR. We love that because we think that makes people do better work. You know, these are some of the reasons that they puts them off going into people leadership. Leading agents is going to be different.

[00:34:23] - [Speaker 1]
I mean, we see that even in the way that you communicate to the tools that we use day to day now, like Gemini and chat. You know, you you give very different kinds of instructions than you might give to a human. If you're managing a person, they want to have autonomy. They want to have freedom. You you know, we have a lot of things that will guide on it.

[00:34:40] - [Speaker 1]
Give them the answer. Tell them what to do. Give them a business outcome and help them empower them to navigate there with autonomy. Whereas if you're gonna if you need something from chat right now, you go in and you give a very specific prompt. These are different skills even now.

[00:34:54] - [Speaker 1]
And as those turn into agents, I can see a fork in the road happening there that can open up quite an interesting career path for people who may be very effective at leading agents who otherwise would have been put off the idea of going into leadership. And that really interests me.

[00:35:12] - [Speaker 0]
Incredibly exciting. And I am conscious, though, although this is a tech podcast, we have been incredibly forward thinking today. But, of course, none of us are able to achieve any degree of success without a little help along the way. And very often, there's someone that sees something in us, invests a little time in us, and and helps put us on the path that we are on right now. So I'm curious.

[00:35:34] - [Speaker 0]
If I ask you to look back a moment rather than looking forward, is there a particular person that you're grateful towards? Maybe they saw something in you, helped you get you where you are today on this forward path that you're looking. But who would that be and why? Let's give them a shout out today. Okay.

[00:35:48] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. So what a lovely question. So, yes, there is. And I haven't always worked in HR. I started my career in in consulting.

[00:35:56] - [Speaker 1]
So there's a bias to my answer about consulting skill sets from earlier, and in and in technology implementation. And one of the clients that I implemented a big global program for was the global insurance giant, Generali. And that program was was spearheaded by their global chief marketing officer, an inspirational business leader by the name of Isabelle Connor, who is still at Generali now. And as we did multiple rollouts of this program across many different countries, I moved away from being frightened of her. She's very amazing presence, amazing polish, and has very high standards through to seeing a little bit of what goes on behind the scenes and building a mentorship that became a friendship.

[00:36:43] - [Speaker 1]
And what I saw that went on behind the scenes was relentless graft. And the thing that always stuck with me was we were rolling this program out in over 20 different countries of Generali. And some of their countries contribute big revenue to the global organization, and some are much smaller. And we were in one of the smaller sites. It was rollout number 20, I think, by that point.

[00:37:10] - [Speaker 1]
So that the the presentation talk track that that Isabelle would deliver at the kickoff event, she could probably do in her sleep. And this wasn't on paper a major market. But we were sat in the hotel bar. We were jet lagged. We checked made sure everything was ready for the launch event the next day.

[00:37:26] - [Speaker 1]
And there she was going through her slides, critiquing every single one, making a little change, thinking this didn't work so well last time. This organization values this a bit more. When I spoke to the CEO of this market, they talked about that, so I'm gonna put that in every single detail. So what you see on the outside was this amazing polish. And I think people would assume, well, they're very senior.

[00:37:49] - [Speaker 1]
I could never do that. You know, that's just a whole other level. What I got the privilege of seeing behind the scenes was the graft. And I think that's very relevant to the uncertainty that we're facing now because there's a democratization going on at the moment with with the skills with AI skills. Very few people have got them.

[00:38:10] - [Speaker 1]
So I think we can take some inspiration there around the graft. And I would thank Isabelle for for letting me see a glimpse of of that.

[00:38:19] - [Speaker 0]
Wow. Incredible answer. And a quick shout out to Isabelle who's probably blissfully unaware on the scale of the impact that she's had on you and your career. And for everybody listening that just wants to find out more information about anything we talked about today, all things HiBob, connect with you or your team, Where would the best place be for them to go? Where do you like to point them?

[00:38:40] - [Speaker 1]
Well, if it's to connect with me, I always love to to continue any of these conversations. LinkedIn is where you'll get me, Toby Huff from HiBob. And if it's to learn more about the business, there's two places. There's the HiBob website. But I think what I'd rather mention is an amazing community that we have, which is open to all.

[00:39:00] - [Speaker 1]
And it's just launched, and it's called In Good Company. And it is we have a community that is purely for our customers, and it's sort of exclusive. But In Good Company is inclusivity at its heart. It is for HR leaders. It is for people that are interested in HR topics.

[00:39:17] - [Speaker 1]
You don't have to be a Highbob customer. We have incredible influencers from around the world who add content to it. We have in person meetups from time to time, but it addresses a lot of the conversations that we've been talking about today. And the things we emphasize is you don't have to have an HR background. Look up In Good Company, sign up for free, and join the conversation.

[00:39:38] - [Speaker 0]
Oh, wow. I will include links to everything you mentioned there. And I think we covered a lot there. Finally, talking about some of the the biggest misconceptions about AI, most importantly, how leaders and organizations can overcome them. And, also, I think those practical steps that managers listening can take right now and especially ensure how technology can enhance, not erode their team culture.

[00:40:03] - [Speaker 0]
It is possible, and you've washed that down with some fantastic examples today. So just thank you for shining a light on this. Really appreciate your time.

[00:40:11] - [Speaker 1]
My pleasure. Thank you, Neil.

[00:40:13] - [Speaker 0]
Wow. For me, that was an incredibly refreshing reminder that AI in the workplace doesn't have to mean doing more with less. It can mean building workplaces where people and technology work together to amplify one another's strengths so that both perform better than they ever could on their own. So if you'd like to connect with Toby, remember, you can find him on LinkedIn or explore Hi Bob's new open community called In Good Company, which is a, as he said, a space for HR leaders, people managers, and just anyone curious about the future of work. And I hope this conversation today encouraged you to look beyond the fear narrative and see AI as a a chance to create more meaning, not less, especially in how we work.

[00:41:02] - [Speaker 0]
Please remember, head over to techtalksnetwork.com. You'll find lots of episodes like this, and you'll also find how you can leave me a message. You can send me an audio message or connect with me on LinkedIn, x, Instagram, just at Neil C Hughes. But that is it for today. So thank you for listening as always, and I'll speak with you all again very soon.

[00:41:23] - [Speaker 0]
Bye for now.