What if the biggest limitation holding AI back isn't the model, the data center, or the algorithm, but the fact that most physical objects in the world still cannot communicate digitally?
In this episode of Tech Talks Daily, I sat down with Richard Price, CTO and co-founder of Pragmatic Semiconductor, to explore why AI systems remain "half blind" to the physical world and what happens when everyday objects finally become intelligent, connected, and verifiable data sources.
Richard shared how Pragmatic Semiconductor is taking a radically different approach to chip design by creating flexible, ultra-thin semiconductors built specifically for item-level intelligence. Rather than competing directly with traditional silicon, Pragmatic is designing lightweight, low-cost electronics that can integrate directly into packaging, labels, healthcare patches, wearable devices, and products that conventional chips cannot support economically or physically.
During our conversation, we unpacked why the long-promised "Internet of Everything" has remained frustratingly out of reach for so many years. Richard explained that while silicon has powered decades of incredible innovation, scaling connectivity to billions or even trillions of everyday objects introduces major cost, energy, and sustainability challenges. Pragmatic's flexible semiconductor technology aims to solve that by reducing manufacturing complexity, lowering environmental impact, and enabling intelligence directly at the edge.
We also discussed how embedding intelligence at the item level could reshape supply chains, sustainability initiatives, healthcare systems, and even consumer trust. From reducing food waste through smarter logistics to enabling wearable healthcare sensors with entirely new form factors, Richard painted a picture of a future where physical products can actively communicate their identity, condition, and history in real time.
One of the most fascinating parts of the conversation centered on how businesses should prepare for this shift. As edge intelligence grows, organizations may need to rethink traditional cloud-heavy architectures and start designing systems in which decisions occur closer to the object itself. Richard explained how this could reduce latency, lower energy usage, and unlock entirely new categories of connected products.
We also explored the sustainability side of semiconductor manufacturing at a time when AI infrastructure and hyperscale data centers are drawing increasing scrutiny for their energy and environmental impact. Richard shared how Pragmatic's thin-film manufacturing approach uses fewer chemicals, less water, and lower-temperature processes, while opening the door to more environmentally conscious digital infrastructure.
Toward the end of the episode, Richard offered insight into some of the most exciting real-world applications already emerging, including healthcare patches, wearable sensing technologies, AR and VR devices, and electronics that could eventually conform to the human body itself. It is the kind of conversation that makes you rethink what a semiconductor can actually be.
If you've ever wondered what comes after smartphones and smart devices, this episode offers a fascinating look at how flexible electronics could quietly become the foundation for the next generation of connected intelligence.
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You get things like browser based data loss prevention, SaaS access control, and zero trust browsing, but delivered in a way that your team can actually use. So if you've been trying to simplify your stack while improving visibility, please check it out at nordlayer.com/browser. Have you ever stopped to think about just how much of the physical world is still invisible to AI? We often talk about smart systems, intelligent automation, and connected everything. But the reality is most everyday objects still sit outside of those digital conversations.
[00:01:20] - [Speaker 0]
They don't speak. They don't share data. And they certainly don't help AI make better decisions. And this gap is something that's starting to matter and something that I wanna explore today. Because if AI is only as good as the data that it receives, what happens when entire supply chains, products, and real world environments continue to remain silent?
[00:01:45] - [Speaker 0]
Well, my guest today believes that's exactly where the next wave of innovation is going to come from. Because I'm gonna be joined by Richard Price. He's the CTO and cofounder of Pragmatic Semiconductor, a company that's rethinking what a chip even looks like. Instead of rigid, expensive silicon that's designed for high performance computing, they are building something different. Something that's flexible, ultra thin semiconductors that can be embedded directly into everyday items from packaging to healthcare wearables.
[00:02:25] - [Speaker 0]
So today, we're gonna explore why AI is still half blind to the physical world. What changes when intelligence moves from cloud to item level? And how this new shift could unlock a truly connected world where objects don't just exist, but they communicate. And along the way, we'll also touch on something that doesn't get enough attention in tech conversations. Yep.
[00:02:51] - [Speaker 0]
Sustainability. Because building trillions of connected devices will also bring its own set of challenges. And pragmatic semiconductor, they're taking a very different approach to solving that too. So if you've ever wondered what comes next after IoT or what an Internet of everything and AI everywhere world really looks like in practice, you should enjoy this one. But enough from me.
[00:03:15] - [Speaker 0]
Let me introduce you to Richard now. So a massive warm welcome to the show. Can you tell everyone listening a little about who you are and what you do?
[00:03:25] - [Speaker 1]
Hi. Morning, Neil. Great to be on the show. So I'm Richard Price. I'm chief technology officer and one of the cofounders of Pragmatic Semiconductor.
[00:03:35] - [Speaker 1]
And what we do at Pragmatic Semiconductor is we manufacture flexible chips or flexible integrated circuits using thin film materials.
[00:03:44] - [Speaker 0]
And it's a pleasure to have you join me today. So much I wanna talk with you about one of the things that I've found when I was doing a little research on you is that you've described AI as being half blind to the physical world. So where are the biggest gaps today when it comes to very real item level data? And why does that matter so much for trust and automation and everything that enterprises are battling with right now?
[00:04:12] - [Speaker 1]
Well, one of the things that's been talked about for probably over a decade is the so called Internet of Things or sometimes the Internet of everything. And that requires objects to be connected to the Internet. And one of the big opportunities is really to connect many more objects. And with pragmatic technology, we believe we can extend that to the item level and start to connect everyday items to the Internet. And then you can capture data from those items and aggregate that as part of, you know, metadata and and start to do more intelligent things in supply chains and logistics and other opportunities.
[00:04:53] - [Speaker 0]
And if we look back, I think traditional silicon has always powered decades of innovation, but it also struggles at scale for everyday objects. So what are the limitations that you're seeing now? And also, how are you at Pragmatic Semiconductor? How are you approaching this differently? Because there's a lot of different solutions out there.
[00:05:13] - [Speaker 0]
Be great to hear what makes you guys stand out.
[00:05:16] - [Speaker 1]
Well, Silicon has just been absolutely phenomenal for the the past fifty plus years. You know, it's continued to progress and to allow us to achieve more and more. You look at the sort of latest GPUs and and and AI models built on those. It's incredible. One of the challenges though is that doing something very simple has become incredibly expensive within a traditional silicon chip.
[00:05:42] - [Speaker 1]
What we do at Pragmatic is we use thin film materials. We have very short cycle times and very short manufacturing times. And that allows us to simplify the production of chips which are really fit for the purpose. If we take item level connectivity, it's a relatively simple job, particularly for a very sophisticated silicon chip. But to replicate that on mass scale, and we're talking billions and eventually trillions of items, is expensive in terms of, you know, the cost of those chips, but also, the environmental cost as well, the water, the chemicals, and so forth.
[00:06:23] - [Speaker 1]
So we've simplified our process by focusing on using materials which can allow very fast manufacturing cycle times and which happen to use less water and fewer chemicals in the process and makes it more sustainable as a overall manufacturing cycle as well.
[00:06:42] - [Speaker 0]
Flexible ultrathin semiconductors really sounds like a shift in how we should be thinking about chips altogether. So for the non techies listening, maybe the business leaders, can you tell me a little bit more about what makes them possible now and why this moment feels so right for that change right now, especially for for businesses?
[00:07:01] - [Speaker 1]
Well, one of the reasons that we've made them flexible by design is so they can integrate with everyday objects. So if you think about a label on a bottle of water or or a beverage or something on a, you know, a consumer packaged goods, we can integrate our electronics, our semiconductor chips into those products, and it has the same look and feel. You know? It's not it's not a box of electronics with a a PCB. It's it's something which is thin, flexible, and looks like a label or a piece of packaging, and that's really intentional by design.
[00:07:36] - [Speaker 0]
And I think when we talk about embedding intelligence at the edge or even at the item level, how does this reshape system architecture compare to the cloud heavy models that many organizations rely on today and will continue to rely on? But tell me a little bit more about that and the change that's coming.
[00:07:54] - [Speaker 1]
Well, it allows you to do decision making further away from the main hub. So you're not having to transmit data, as far back through the system. At the moment, that starts with simple identification. So we can give any item or objects a unique code or a unique identity, but it evolves into adding in sensing, so information about the environment that the objects is in, so humidity, temperature, chemical, and so forth. And then from there, it sends into simple decision making.
[00:08:29] - [Speaker 1]
So, you know, simple machine learning that can be on the item and allows it to make decisions without having to necessarily connect back, all the way through the system for more information.
[00:08:42] - [Speaker 0]
And I think there's also a big sustainability angle here too, both in manufacturing and in deployment, and at a time where so many organizations are focused on not only the sustainability, but the ESG scores and commitments there, for example. So how do you see flexible semiconductors changing the environmental footprint and of, digital infrastructure? Because there is an increasing focus on this now, especially with the footprint of AI alone, but tell me more about that.
[00:09:10] - [Speaker 1]
You're you're quite right. I mean, if we look at the, the energy demands of building more and more data centers, I know that's significant, and and, rightly, people are focused on ways to reduce that. At Pragmatic, our manufacturing process is more sustainable. It's a combination of the materials we use, the fact that we don't have very high temperature processes that are very energy intensive, and it's very short. All that comes together to mean that we have a much more sustainable process for the types of chips that we manufacture.
[00:09:42] - [Speaker 1]
There's also another angle, which is increasingly we're seeing with customers that there are use cases that also impact on ESG goals as well. So addressing things like food waste would be a good example. So the more visibility that we have through supply chain, the more opportunities there are to try and identify the big areas where there is high food wastage. That's a big global greenhouse gas contributor, and to try and minimize that by making those supply chains even smarter than they are today.
[00:10:17] - [Speaker 0]
And the idea of the Internet of everything that you mentioned now, it's been discussed for years, but often felt somewhat out of reach or just out of reach. We're now thinking even bigger talking about AI everywhere. But what does all this look like in practice when physical objects can become verified data sources?
[00:10:35] - [Speaker 1]
Well, I think, you know, there are a number of things. So consumers have much greater transparency over the products that they're buying. So you can have traceability all the way back to the original manufacturer and understand that things are authentic or that they've been ethically sourced, for example, which can be important for consumers. We've had for, I guess, the best part of a decade now within our pockets, a smartphone that's that's got sort of reader capability in there. What yeah.
[00:11:06] - [Speaker 1]
We use it every day in things like contactless pay. That same infrastructure allows you to interact with items and have a conversation essentially. So through that code on the item, can open up information about how to use products, how to responsibly dispose of products, as well as information about the manufacturer and sourcing of that as well.
[00:11:30] - [Speaker 0]
And if we were to look further ahead, where do you see this tech making maybe the biggest real world impact first? And what should business leaders listening maybe inspired by the conversation? What should they be doing right now to prepare for a world where intelligence exists at the item level rather than just systems? Because it a certain mindset and cultural shift is required here too. Right?
[00:11:53] - [Speaker 1]
So the first generation that we've launched is a product range called NFC Connect. So these can be read by smartphones, and they allow this item level intelligence that goes beyond the edge. We're also working on what we call high density interconnects. So these are thin, flexible, essentially a substrate or a a circuit board that has components within it. So things like resistors, capacitors, and so forth, and allow you to connect other electronic devices and put them into spaces that are very challenging.
[00:12:27] - [Speaker 1]
So things like VR headsets, for example, wearable devices. We're also working on devices for disposable patches, for example, and things like health care. So we've seen the emergence of things like continuous glucose monitors over the past five years or so. They're moving more and more into the consumer space. We see an opportunity to further improve the form factor, the wearability, and the accessibility of that kind of product so you can make that much more accessible to the wider public, and particularly in areas like developing health care systems that don't have the infrastructure that some do, to allow individuals to have more control over their their sort of health care and particularly in this emerging area of preventative and predictive health care, we think that's important.
[00:13:23] - [Speaker 0]
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[00:13:57] - [Speaker 0]
One of the things I love about what you're doing there at Pragmatic Semiconductor is how you're on this mission to enable electronics where silicon just cannot go, ultimately enabling intelligence in everyday objects. So you can accelerate design cycles, opening up entirely new device form factors, which feels like an incredible opportunity to start up founders that could be listening all around the world. I'm curious. When you're having conversations with so many people, are there any trends in the kind of things that people are looking to use this technology? And and also has anything took you by surprise?
[00:14:31] - [Speaker 0]
Because I would suspect that you've created it with certain things in mind. I think it would be ideal for this, but then you speak to a customer who's got a completely different, in intention for it. Have you had any of those conversations yet? I know it's early days, but I'd be interested to hear what kind of conversations you're having around what opportunities could be created here.
[00:14:49] - [Speaker 1]
Yeah. And I mean, actually, it's fascinating. You're right. We started the business essentially looking at how do we integrate with everyday objects and and focusing on the the kind of form factor of packaging and labels and so forth. We're seeing an increasing pull in areas where miniaturization is important.
[00:15:07] - [Speaker 1]
So being able to put electronics where there's really tight space requirements. So not just the the kind of area, but the volume of the electronics becomes important. So the fact we have something thin that can support integration with other electronic, components is really attractive and that that's pulling through. There are areas around kind of on body sensing, particularly health care that I've mentioned earlier, in into integrating with things like microneedles. So you can do you can do disease sensing, for example.
[00:15:43] - [Speaker 1]
So the form factor, the fact that it's thin and flexible and potentially could be made stretchable as well, allows you to put electronics onto parts of the body to sense difficult things. So that could be brain interfacing, detection of things around the throat, for example. These are very challenging form factors for something which is comfortable, wearable, and has some degree to adapt with the body, both for conventional electronics. So those are further out, but we see opportunities, you know, in in the health care space, in particular, for that kind of thing, as well as for miniaturization within the mainstream consumer electronics.
[00:16:24] - [Speaker 0]
Incredibly exciting times ahead. And I'm curious. Are are you you attending many conferences this year, spreading the word? What what's your big focus this year?
[00:16:32] - [Speaker 1]
So the big focus this year, we're continuing to ramp our production up in County Durham. So we recently added additional capacity onto our site there. That is supporting our rollout of the NFC Connect product range as well as working with customers on prototyping future products that will release in the next several years. Terms of conferences, we're we're kind of spread across a number of areas. So the kind of Internet of Things ecosystem is one area.
[00:17:06] - [Speaker 1]
From a pathfinding and sort of future opportunities, we look at a range of conferences that touch on the device level and materials as well as future applications across electronics and areas like health care as well.
[00:17:21] - [Speaker 0]
And for anybody listening, whether that be a business leader or a startup founder or indeed anyone that is listening today, feeling inspired about enabling intelligence into everyday objects, maybe they've got an an idea for an entirely new device or a new form factor. They wanna hit the ground running. Where can they find out more information about you guys and connect with your team? Where should they go?
[00:17:42] - [Speaker 1]
So they can connect through LinkedIn, or they can send an inquiry through our website, which is pragmaticsemi.com.
[00:17:51] - [Speaker 0]
Perfect. Well, I will add links to everything that you mentioned there. And if you do have that idea, if you're sat on a train somewhere or on a commute and you've got an idea, consider this to be your call to action. Please check out those links. Get in touch.
[00:18:04] - [Speaker 0]
But, Richard, more than anything, just thank you for taking the time to sit down with me today, bring all this to life, put it in a language everyone can understand. I'd love to stay in touch with you, see what people create. It does feel like an incredibly exciting opportunity for everyone here, but thank you for sharing your story today.
[00:18:20] - [Speaker 1]
Thank you, Neil. It's been great to talk to you.
[00:18:24] - [Speaker 0]
So what really stood out for me in that conversation there is just how we've been talking about connected devices for years. And still, most of the world around us is entirely disconnected. And maybe that's the uncomfortable truth here. We've built incredibly powerful AI systems, but we've been feeding them a very narrow slice of reality. And what Richard and the team of Pragmatic Semiconductor are working on here feels like a real shift in perspective.
[00:18:56] - [Speaker 0]
Instead of asking how we make AI smarter in the cloud, they're asking how can we make the world itself more visible to those systems. And this opens up some interesting possibilities from smarter supply chains that can track and adapt in real time to healthcare wearables that move closer to the individual with sensors that are almost invisible. And even everyday products can tell their own story from where they came from to how they should be used and even recycled. And, of course, there are challenges here too. Scaling this kind of technology, managing the data it creates, and ensuring it is used responsibly are all part of this journey too.
[00:19:41] - [Speaker 0]
But it is hard to ignore the potential when intelligence starts to live at the item level. So if this conversation sparked an idea in you, whether you are building something new or rethinking an existing system, I'd definitely recommend checking out pragmatic semiconductor and seeing what is possible. And as always, I'll include links to everything that we discussed in the show notes there. But I'd love to hear your take on this. Are we finally moving towards a world where every object has a digital voice, Or are we underestimating the complexity that comes with it all?
[00:20:19] - [Speaker 0]
Let me know your thoughts. Techtalksnetwork.com, and I'll catch you again on the next episode. Speak with you then. Bye for now.